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2024 Season 2 27/08
(2) Minstrel 1.0
(2) Monty Hall SE 2.3
(3) Dominator_1.2
(4) Deja Vu 1.1
(4) KICK BACK 1.3
(4) Pantheon1.0
(4) Radeon 1.0
(4) Polypoid 1.75
(4) Fighting Spirit
Map pool:
2017 Season 1 14/08 (dd/mm)
(3) Outsider
(4) Arcadia II
(4) Python
(4) Nostalgia
(4) Fighting Spirit
(4) Circuit Breaker
2017 Season 2 07/12
(2) Destination
(2) Match Point
(3) Tau Cross
(3) Longinus II
(4) Neo Jade
(4) Fighting Spirit
(4) Circuit Breaker
2018 Season 1 12/04
(2) Destination
(3) Transistor
(3) Tau Cross
(3) Longinus II
(4) Gladiator
(4) Fighting Spirit
(4) Circuit Breaker
2018 Season 2 25/07
(2) Blue Storm
(2) Polaris Rhapsody
(2) Heart Break Ridge 2.1
(3) Aztec 2.1
(4) Roadkill 1.13
(4) Fighting Spirit
(4) Circuit Breaker
2018 Season 3 02/10
(2) Benzene 1.1
(2) Heart Break Ridge 2.1
(3) Aztec 2.1
(4) In the Way of an Eddy 1.05
(4) Roadkill 1.13
(4) Circuit Breakers 1.0
(4) Fighting Spirit 1.3
2019 Season 1 03/02
(2) Cross Game
(2) Overwatch
(3) Neo Medusa
(4) Circuit Breaker
(4) Colosseum II
(4) Fighting Spirit
(4) Neo Ground Zero
2019 Season 2 10/07
(2) Overwatch
(2) Tres Pass
(3) Power Bond
(4) BlockChainSE 2.1
(4) Fighting Spirit 1.3
(4) Circuit Breakers 1.0
(4) Gladiator 1.1
2019 Season 3 20/11
(2) Destination
(2) Heartbreak Ridge
(3) Neo_Sylphid
(3) Whiteout
(4) Circuit Breaker
(4) Fighting Spirit
(4) Gladiator
2020 Season 1 14/02
(2) Hitchhiker 1.2
(2) New Bloody Ridge
(3) Neo_Sylphid 2.0
(4) La Mancha 1.1
(4) Escalade
(4) Fighting Spirit 1.3
(4) Circuit Breakers 1.0
2020 Season 2 29/05
(2) Eclipse
(2) Match Point
(3) New Sylphid
(3) Reap the Storm
(4) Polypoid
(4) Fighting Spirit
(4) Circuit Breakers
2020 Season 3 09/10
(2) Benzen
(2) Eclipse
(3) Plasma
(4) Polypoid
(4) Ringing Bloom
(4) Fighting Spirit
(4) Circuit Breakers
2021 season 1 10/02
(2) Benzen 1.1
(2) Eclipse 1.2
(3) Plasma 1.0
(4) Optimizer 1.0
(4) Polypoid 1.6
(4) Ringing Bloom SE 2.0
(4) Shakuras Temple 1.1
2021 season 2 29/09
(2) Eclipse 1.2
(3) Ascension 1.0
(4) Fighting Spirit 1.3
(4) Good Night 1.3
(4) Largo 1.5
(4) Polypoid 1.65
(4) Revolver 1.0
2022 season 1 08/09
(2) Butter 2.0C
(2) Eclipse 1.2
(3) Sylphid 3.0
(4) Fighting Spirit 1.3
(4) Nemesis (ASL)
(4) Polypoid 1.65
(4) Vermeer SE 2.1
2023 season 1 31/08
(2) Invader 1.0
(2) Neo Dark Origin
(3) Apocalypse
(4) Fighting Spirit 1.3
(4) La Campanella 1.1
(4) Polypoid 1.75
(4) Retro 1.2
(4) Tempest 1.1
(4) Vermeer SE 2.1
2024 season 1 05/02
(2) Blitz Y 1.0
(2) Neo Dark Origin 2.1
(3) Apocalypse_1.4
(4) Citadel 1.0
(4) Fighting_Spirit_1.3
(4) Radeon 1.0
(4) Retro 1.2
(4) TroySE 2.0
(4) Polypoid 1.75
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Meh~.at least retro is gone.
Do we really need poly fs and radeon at once? One more 2p or 3p map would have been nice.
Still props to them for following the SSL/ASL maps and updating somewhat regularly
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United States10393 Posts
I'm fine with them following SSL/ASL maps as the map pool, but jesus please get rid of FS at this point... It's like the old Python. At least bring back something like Circuit Breaker if you want a well known 4p map, or just leave Poly as the new FS and introduce some fresher 4p standard maps. Radeon fits that mold well too since it's a symmetrical 4p not a rotational 4p.
Or keep Apocalypse so you have 2 3p maps in the pool too. I know it's just lazy on their part to just slap FS/Poly + SSL maps but if you're not really putting any effort into making the map pool, at least make it a little different.
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On August 27 2024 14:21 FlaShFTW wrote:
I'm fine with them following SSL/ASL maps as the map pool, but jesus please get rid of FS at this point... It's like the old Python. At least bring back something like Circuit Breaker if you want a well known 4p map, or just leave Poly as the new FS and introduce some fresher 4p standard maps. Radeon fits that mold well too since it's a symmetrical 4p not a rotational 4p.
Or keep Apocalypse so you have 2 3p maps in the pool too. I know it's just lazy on their part to just slap FS/Poly + SSL maps but if you're not really putting any effort into making the map pool, at least make it a little different.
I agree with You, but this will probably never happen (again). It's way too popular in SK, afaik.
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On August 27 2024 09:53 SCRVN wrote:
2024 Season 2 27/08
(2) Minstrel 1.0
(2) Monty Hall SE 2.3
(3) Dominator_1.2
(4) Deja Vu 1.1
(4) KICK BACK 1.3
(4) Pantheon1.0
(4) Radeon 1.0
(4) Polypoid 1.75
(4) Fighting Spirit
Map pool:
2017 Season 1 14/08 (dd/mm)
(3) Outsider
(4) Arcadia II
(4) Python
(4) Nostalgia
(4) Fighting Spirit
(4) Circuit Breaker
2017 Season 2 07/12
(2) Destination
(2) Match Point
(3) Tau Cross
(3) Longinus II
(4) Neo Jade
(4) Fighting Spirit
(4) Circuit Breaker
2018 Season 1 12/04
(2) Destination
(3) Transistor
(3) Tau Cross
(3) Longinus II
(4) Gladiator
(4) Fighting Spirit
(4) Circuit Breaker
2018 Season 2 25/07
(2) Blue Storm
(2) Polaris Rhapsody
(2) Heart Break Ridge 2.1
(3) Aztec 2.1
(4) Roadkill 1.13
(4) Fighting Spirit
(4) Circuit Breaker
2018 Season 3 02/10
(2) Benzene 1.1
(2) Heart Break Ridge 2.1
(3) Aztec 2.1
(4) In the Way of an Eddy 1.05
(4) Roadkill 1.13
(4) Circuit Breakers 1.0
(4) Fighting Spirit 1.3
2019 Season 1 03/02
(2) Cross Game
(2) Overwatch
(3) Neo Medusa
(4) Circuit Breaker
(4) Colosseum II
(4) Fighting Spirit
(4) Neo Ground Zero
2019 Season 2 10/07
(2) Overwatch
(2) Tres Pass
(3) Power Bond
(4) BlockChainSE 2.1
(4) Fighting Spirit 1.3
(4) Circuit Breakers 1.0
(4) Gladiator 1.1
2019 Season 3 20/11
(2) Destination
(2) Heartbreak Ridge
(3) Neo_Sylphid
(3) Whiteout
(4) Circuit Breaker
(4) Fighting Spirit
(4) Gladiator
2020 Season 1 14/02
(2) Hitchhiker 1.2
(2) New Bloody Ridge
(3) Neo_Sylphid 2.0
(4) La Mancha 1.1
(4) Escalade
(4) Fighting Spirit 1.3
(4) Circuit Breakers 1.0
2020 Season 2 29/05
(2) Eclipse
(2) Match Point
(3) New Sylphid
(3) Reap the Storm
(4) Polypoid
(4) Fighting Spirit
(4) Circuit Breakers
2020 Season 3 09/10
(2) Benzen
(2) Eclipse
(3) Plasma
(4) Polypoid
(4) Ringing Bloom
(4) Fighting Spirit
(4) Circuit Breakers
2021 season 1 10/02
(2) Benzen 1.1
(2) Eclipse 1.2
(3) Plasma 1.0
(4) Optimizer 1.0
(4) Polypoid 1.6
(4) Ringing Bloom SE 2.0
(4) Shakuras Temple 1.1
2021 season 2 29/09
(2) Eclipse 1.2
(3) Ascension 1.0
(4) Fighting Spirit 1.3
(4) Good Night 1.3
(4) Largo 1.5
(4) Polypoid 1.65
(4) Revolver 1.0
2022 season 1 08/09
(2) Butter 2.0C
(2) Eclipse 1.2
(3) Sylphid 3.0
(4) Fighting Spirit 1.3
(4) Nemesis (ASL)
(4) Polypoid 1.65
(4) Vermeer SE 2.1
2023 season 1 31/08
(2) Invader 1.0
(2) Neo Dark Origin
(3) Apocalypse
(4) Fighting Spirit 1.3
(4) La Campanella 1.1
(4) Polypoid 1.75
(4) Retro 1.2
(4) Tempest 1.1
(4) Vermeer SE 2.1
2024 season 1 05/02
(2) Blitz Y 1.0
(2) Neo Dark Origin 2.1
(3) Apocalypse_1.4
(4) Citadel 1.0
(4) Fighting_Spirit_1.3
(4) Radeon 1.0
(4) Retro 1.2
(4) TroySE 2.0
(4) Polypoid 1.75
2020 Season 3 09/10
(2) Benzen
(2) Eclipse
(3) Plasma
(4) Polypoid
(4) Ringing Bloom
(4) Fighting Spirit
(4) Circuit Breakers
2021 season 1 10/02
(2) Benzen 1.1
(2) Eclipse 1.2
(3) Plasma 1.0
(4) Optimizer 1.0
(4) Polypoid 1.6
(4) Ringing Bloom SE 2.0
(4) Shakuras Temple 1.1
It should be "Benzene" here btw
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It's great to see that the ladder map pool is now getting timely updates.
Minstrel and Monty Hall are easy bans for me, everything else is playable. I don't even feel like I need a third ban.
I think it's reasonable to keep the two most played maps ever (FS/Poly) in the map pool almost indefinitely. People generally dislike being forced to work, and if you remove all the well-known maps, you're forcing the player base to work (learn new maps).
Keeping those maps in the pool makes it much easier for players to return after not playing ladder for a while.
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On August 27 2024 18:40 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
gold!
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On August 27 2024 09:57 WGT-Baal wrote:
Still props to them for following the SSL/ASL maps and updating somewhat regularly
You're joking right? The reason why ASL/SSL has these maps is because the premiere kr league wants to see how top performing players are dealing with weirdness in the maps. My hot take of the day is that the map pool should allow some weirdness for those who grind 24/7 and want to experience something new every now and then, but should ALSO be able to accommodate casuals that still play this 30 year old game because they like it and they play 2-3 games a week at most. I bet that 90% of that second group do not want to learn a new, non standard map.
Speaking for myself now, when I am very inactive but still have the itch every now and then I just want some 2 or 4 player standard map (any edition) that I can just spend 3 minutes looking at and think "ok I know how to play on this map". I could be in the minority, but judging by how other people reacted to the new map pool I do not think this is the case.
Do not get me wrong, I do not propose FS and CB be the map pool for an eternity. What I suggest instead is to have a rotation of a tested, well received maps in the map pool and 3-4 weird, "creatively inspired" maps from SSL.
/rant. Thanks for coming to my Ted talk
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They reverted back to the old maps?...
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What's the deal with all of these new, huge maps? Are map makers pushing for long macro games? I played my first few ladder games in years and got stuck in an 8 base vs 8 base split map game for damn near 2 hours!
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On September 05 2024 03:18 EndingLife wrote:
What's the deal with all of these new, huge maps? Are map makers pushing for long macro games? I played my first few ladder games in years and got stuck in an 8 base vs 8 base split map game for damn near 2 hours!
The maps are not larger by any metric. The maximum size is 128*128, same as LT, Python, FS, etc.
The maximum number of expansions did not increase either. All maps are within the typical range of 10 to 16 expansions.
IMO 16-expansion-maps sometimes can feel like a bit too much. In the matchups where we regularly see both players maxed out or close to maxed out, there is a point in the game where both players are at 200/200, but there are often like 3 more untouched expansions on the map. It's like being served another dish after you've already had a salad, a main course and dessert.
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Maybe not physically bigger but longer rush distances and way more bases than I was used to when I used to ladder.
16 total bases is a bit overkill imo. More like 5 untouched bases each when both players are maxed on 3 bases each.
If the game gets to split map, the average game length has to be drastically increased. Late game PvZ seems insanely hard on these maps with 16 total bases as well as it's harder for protoss to even split the map evenly. Protoss is almost forced to play the turtle, defend only style in PvZ while being down multiple bases which makes the games so much longer.
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On September 06 2024 02:25 EndingLife wrote:
Maybe not physically bigger but longer rush distances and way more bases than I was used to when I used to ladder.
16 total bases is a bit overkill imo. More like 5 untouched bases each when both players are maxed on 3 bases each.
If the game gets to split map, the average game length has to be drastically increased. Late game PvZ seems insanely hard on these maps with 16 total bases as well as it's harder for protoss to even split the map evenly. Protoss is almost forced to play the turtle, defend only style in PvZ while being down multiple bases which makes the games so much longer.
Just wait until the Disruption Web tech starts getting developed.
Btw, did you know that disruption web stops mines from being set off? 
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United States10393 Posts
On September 06 2024 02:25 EndingLife wrote:
Maybe not physically bigger but longer rush distances and way more bases than I was used to when I used to ladder.
16 total bases is a bit overkill imo. More like 5 untouched bases each when both players are maxed on 3 bases each.
If the game gets to split map, the average game length has to be drastically increased. Late game PvZ seems insanely hard on these maps with 16 total bases as well as it's harder for protoss to even split the map evenly. Protoss is almost forced to play the turtle, defend only style in PvZ while being down multiple bases which makes the games so much longer.
I feel like rush distances haven't dramatically increased at all lately. Maybe by a second at most.
My take is that the 16 base 4/spawn is better for balance because it gives each rotational spawn options on where they want to expand, whereas only having 12 bases 3/spawn means that getting a favorable spawn advantage feels like shit. That being said, it's also why I personally prefer 3p maps since you can get away with 4/spawn for a total of 12 bases, which I think is a nice sweet spot. Radeon does a pretty good job too where the 12/6 lends itself to being a decent 3rd base location if you spawn vertically to your opponent, and goes with 14 bases instead of 16.
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EPT![[image loading]](https://media2.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExd3AxMzRkZHI1NjllNDVwenNwZzIwb3Y5M2pydnJsZnNwdjN2aTFvcCZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/Spy5vTG5jwnte/200.webp)
