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Hello everyone,
I want to share my plans for 2024 with all of you guys, after the ThaiLANd I have a lot of motivation to make new things, as well as improve everything I was doing so far. Meeting all the amazing people during the LAN and hanging out with them, gave me power and motivation to continue my path. Also I’m extremely motivated to make open LAN events like that this year - because that's what's bringing community and people together. I will work my ass out to make it happen!
Before that I want to give you a short update on my current situation as a tournament organizer:
1. Almost exactly 2 years ago I left my job and decided to become full time tournament organizer.
2. After 10 months I wasn’t earning enough on it, so I’ve set the Patreon goal to meet till the end of BSL16 - we reached ~50% of the goal - so from April I came back to my old work for half time.
3. I still hope that one day I will be able to live out of producing tournaments and content only, but for now doing it for half time is still great and is keeping the dream alive.
4. Unfortunately after the ThaiLANd LAN drama I’ve lost a bunch of Patreons - it’s my mistake and misjudgement and I have to live with the consequences of it, but if you guys like my plans for 2024 - reaching back to $1250 a month would give me a big chance to continue making events as I did in 2023, otherwise I will have to come back to my full time work, and will not have excuse to my wife why I'm spending so much time for BW ^^
5. https://www.patreon.com/Bombastic - $894 / $1250 - I don’t want to make any deadline, just do it if you can and if you think my job is worth it.
My plans:
Premier events:
- BSL Season 18 (Missing $4600, if I won’t find sponsor till the end of January, we will launch it with lower prize pool)
- BSL Season 19
- BSL Season 20* (*If I will know that I have funding for it till April [otherwise I won’t fit three seasons, not enough weekends])
- New Super Gosu event - Artosis & ZZZero event incoming
- BSL Korea - My goal is to make a regular Korean League, first for entertainment, but secondly to have contact to manage sparing and practice partners for our players (to see them into ASL finally!)
Obviously I would love to bring more events, but it's depended on sponsors and funding. I'm open for new ideas!
Major events:
- BSL Races Championships: Season 2 (2 days a week, one day EU time, one day NA/SA time, finals during the weekend)
- BSL Nation Wars (Captains / Leaders PM me please)
Minor events:
- BSL King of the Mountain / ProLeague style matches (each Wednesday/Thursday EU time)
Offline events:
- I’m planning to make at least three offline tournaments this year.
1. BSL Warsaw: - February - March (24-25.02 or 02-03.03)
2. BSL Gdańsk: - June - July
3. BSL Warsaw Finals: Polish World Championships 2024 - October - November
4. I’m willing to make an offline LAN in any place/country - as long as we will have a reasonable prize pool and my tickets/accomodation will be covered. Just PM me if you are interested.
If I won't find funding, I will make matcherino page for the events I don't have prizepool yet, I believe that there are a lot of people who will want to support an event directly and whom we will motivate to do so during the broadcast.
That’s me giving my best to the community. Now it's up to you if you share and support it if you like it.
_
https://www.patreon.com/bombastic
Coinbase: dideko.o@gmail.com
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damn... thats a lot. I stay patreon 4 this
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BSL Forever!! Good job mr Bombastic
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Why is the original link titled “Bonyth is banned”?? This is reflected in the discord post you made.
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is it possible? as always the sky is the limit
would be great to see blizzard formally support these, even with limited/no financial backing -- talk to scarlett?
i heard AMD is sponsoring ASL -- would also be a great sponsor even with limited financial backing
if dewalt can show good results at ASL perhaps the foreign scene will gain some respect/attention
thank you for your hard work.
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Nation wars would be pretty cool
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Maybe reduce everything and back to 5k goal? Change format ? then less weekend or + games/ day. Maybe make public opinion research,some people why doesn't BSL support it anymore? Maybe on this point let open for Koreans players (except pro)
i supported ban Koreans because they have 10x more opportunity for practice and etc, China just x8 so it does not matter anymore and it's fair
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Sounds sick. Hope everything works out!
GL HF gentlemen 
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Amazing.
For nation wars what would be the format? Also do you accept groups of nearby countries like TDR did?
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Thank you for all your hard work last year and the update!
Organising all these online/offline leagues must be a huge logistic challenge.
The Thailand tournament looks super fun and am definite interested to see more of these LAN events.
Hope everything works out okay!
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Nice!
Gooo Zzzero! Thanks for keeping foreign BW active 
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On January 21 2024 22:11 WGT-Baal wrote:
Amazing.
For nation wars what would be the format? Also do you accept groups of nearby countries like TDR did?
My idea is to make teams: Russia, Poland, Peru, Chile, USA, Canada, Scandinavia, Rest of Europe + Thailand, Rest of LatAm
Mb Chile should be with the rest of LatAm ? I'm waiting for potential captains to PM me!
I think those would be relatively equal in terms of power, but I'm open for discussion about it. I will make a thread for each event individually though.
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On January 22 2024 22:55 ZZZero.O wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2024 22:11 WGT-Baal wrote:
Amazing.
For nation wars what would be the format? Also do you accept groups of nearby countries like TDR did? My idea is to make teams: Russia, Poland, Peru, Chile, USA, Canada, Scandinavia, Rest of Europe + Thailand, Rest of LatAm Mb Chile should be with the rest of LatAm ? I'm waiting for potential captains to PM me! I think those would be relatively equal in terms of power, but I'm open for discussion about it. I will make a thread for each event individually though.
Thanks! The list looks well balanced yes. I ll check with former NEU members if anyone is interested. I retired from captaining due to lack of time but if player are interested i ll find someone to PM you
What s the deadline?
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Looks like a great line up. Also, I think the Korean connection idea could be great. I'll support for sure.
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Does it look like there won't be any Chinese players in these competitions?
Is there a good channel to seek sponsors from China?
There are a relatively large number of sponsors for competitions in China. Sponsors who pay more for a large competition usually pay $1000 to $2000, while sponsors who pay less usually pay $100.
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Maybe chineese audience could donate/sponsor some? Lot of viewers on that side + fans. And it seems they often donate to mihu / spon games.
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Russian Federation1893 Posts
That will be a real challenge to convince Chiense to donate to the laowai online/LAN tournament.
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On January 23 2024 17:22 Rus_Brain wrote:
That will be a real challenge to convince Chiense to donate to the laowai online/LAN tournament.
I was thinking more towards the 10k goal for BSL 18 in that particular comment, but yes, i see it would be a challenge💰
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On January 23 2024 17:22 Rus_Brain wrote:
That will be a real challenge to convince Chiense to donate to the laowai online/LAN tournament.
If Chinese players play in it, and make money from it, Chinese fans should donate
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The competition time is suitable for Chinese audiences to gain more influence in China. The competition time for Chinese players must be in the afternoon of Europe.
The time for Chinese audiences to watch is after 2am, and only the finals can be watched once.
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Russian Federation1893 Posts
"Shouldness" is quite subjective, iopq.
An extreme difficulty is not an impossibility; rather, it correlates with the extent of concessions, commitments, and reservations to be taken by the organizers and the players. Success of Chinese donations may be at hand if time is right; but in the current configuration, it appears to me unlikely.
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Allowing high-level Korean amateur players to participate in the competition is a wise choice.
They can bring more exciting matches while their commission is very cheap.
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Getting Chinese sponsorship will be challenging, for the following reasons:
1. Time zone difference. Prime time in EU maps to midnight ~ early morning hours in Beijing time. Who's going to stay up all night & watch from China? Expecting sponsorship without viewership is just unrealistic;
2. If there were foreign games people do want to watch from China, they'd much rather prefer Korean games. After all, much higher level of skills, no time zone issues, no network latency, closer cultures, etc.
3. Last but not least, the SC scene in China is booming. There's a plethora of games & matches on a daily basis, often with several casters hosting different matches at the same time, competing for viewership. Would people prefer watching players that they are familiar with, commentated in their native language, arguably played at a slightly higher skill level, or would they rather prefer infrequent, over-night BSL games? The answer is obvious.
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how bad is the ping issue vs china?
i guess making it a fight for pride and hosting a "the world" (without korea of course) vs "china" could pull in some viewers from both camps
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On January 25 2024 03:21 kAra wrote:
how bad is the ping issue vs china?
is ok from eu
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On January 25 2024 03:12 bochs wrote:
Getting Chinese sponsorship will be challenging, for the following reasons:
1. Time zone difference. Prime time in EU maps to midnight ~ early morning hours in Beijing time. Who's going to stay up all night & watch from China? Expecting sponsorship without viewership is just unrealistic;
2. If there were foreign games people do want to watch from China, they'd much rather prefer Korean games. After all, much higher level of skills, no time zone issues, no network latency, closer cultures, etc.
3. Last but not least, the SC scene in China is booming. There's a plethora of games & matches on a daily basis, often with several casters hosting different matches at the same time, competing for viewership. Would people prefer watching players that they are familiar with, commentated in their native language, arguably played at a slightly higher skill level, or would they rather prefer infrequent, over-night BSL games? The answer is obvious.
1.Sorry, you can only make concessions on the issue of competition time.
2.The level of Korean players is much higher than ours,So we are more inclined to compete with opponents who are close in level to us.
3.It depends on how much sincerity Mr. Zero has in cooperating with Chinese anchors
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On January 25 2024 03:21 kAra wrote:
how bad is the ping issue vs china?
i guess making it a fight for pride and hosting a "the world" (without korea of course) vs "china" could pull in some viewers from both camps
The delay is approximately 200 milliseconds，Not too bad，Mainly due to the time difference, are you willing to make concessions
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On January 25 2024 23:03 chenchuan wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2024 03:21 kAra wrote:
how bad is the ping issue vs china?
i guess making it a fight for pride and hosting a "the world" (without korea of course) vs "china" could pull in some viewers from both camps The delay is approximately 200 milliseconds，Not too bad，Mainly due to the time difference, are you willing to make concessions
What concessions would work? Is it just the time? In which case special events could be done at China friendly time vs Europe (wouldn't work with SA/NA).
Or would a recast in Chinese at china friendly time be a solution maybe? I doubt chinese viewers would spoil themselves reading foreign bw sites, and liquipedia etc update could be delayed until the recast. It would only be a few hours? Not sure how technically doable that is though. And it would not be quite live.
Any other things that would help? Please detail them
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Is there a way to build into the rules for competing that you promote your presence in BSL to your fanbase a certain number of times?
... would a recast in Chinese at china friendly time be a solution maybe? I doubt chinese viewers would spoil themselves reading foreign bw sites, and liquipedia etc update could be delayed until the recast. It would only be a few hours? Not sure how technically doable that is though. And it would not be quite live.
Also, this ^ is a good idea in my opinion since Chinese internet is so different from the West's and you could potentially do something called a "simulated live cast" (we do them in marketing all the time with webinar software) where it feels live, the chat is live, but audio and video are recorded.
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Didn't BSL already make concessions to the Chinese scene for several years already (Chinese players have done well and collected a signficiant amount of the prize pool in Seasons 13-17), with only minimal funding in return? Changing the broadcast times, accepting more laggy matches, and in some seasons dedicating Proleague spots specifically to Chinese/Asia region players.
And yet several years of minimal Chinese financial or viewer interest, for whatever reason. Many possible ones have been mentioned in the thread already. Maybe this time is different, but it's also maybe just not a product which the Chinese scene is very interested in?
Speculative reasons: Unknown players for Chinese viewers/language barrier/quality of play/saturated enough domestic+Korean scene? It seems like the Chinese players participating are happy to collect some extra prize pool, sure, but after 2+ years, it doesn't seem like the interest in the event is there from the fans/donators etc.
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On January 25 2024 23:31 WGT-Baal wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2024 23:03 chenchuan wrote:On January 25 2024 03:21 kAra wrote:
how bad is the ping issue vs china?
i guess making it a fight for pride and hosting a "the world" (without korea of course) vs "china" could pull in some viewers from both camps The delay is approximately 200 milliseconds，Not too bad，Mainly due to the time difference, are you willing to make concessions What concessions would work? Is it just the time? In which case special events could be done at China friendly time vs Europe (wouldn't work with SA/NA). Or would a recast in Chinese at china friendly time be a solution maybe? I doubt chinese viewers would spoil themselves reading foreign bw sites, and liquipedia etc update could be delayed until the recast. It would only be a few hours? Not sure how technically doable that is though. And it would not be quite live. Any other things that would help? Please detail them
Let me come up with a simple plan.
Organize a competition between China and Europe.If Europe is willing to sponsor $500.We are willing to offer an additional $500.
Of course.In order to ensure the smooth progress of this competition, there are still two issues that need to be resolved.
These two questions are the time difference and whether Mr. Zero really has the sincerity to cooperate with us.
If you are unwilling to choose a time that is friendly to Chinese people.Or rather, Mr. Zero did not have the sincerity to cooperate with us.These two questions will make our discussion meaningless.
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On January 26 2024 08:00 iRkSupperman wrote:
Didn't BSL already make concessions to the Chinese scene for several years already (Chinese players have done well and collected a signficiant amount of the prize pool in Seasons 13-17), with only minimal funding in return? Changing the broadcast times, accepting more laggy matches, and in some seasons dedicating Proleague spots specifically to Chinese/Asia region players.
And yet several years of minimal Chinese financial or viewer interest, for whatever reason. Many possible ones have been mentioned in the thread already. Maybe this time is different, but it's also maybe just not a product which the Chinese scene is very interested in?
Speculative reasons: Unknown players for Chinese viewers/language barrier/quality of play/saturated enough domestic+Korean scene? It seems like the Chinese players participating are happy to collect some extra prize pool, sure, but after 2+ years, it doesn't seem like the interest in the event is there from the fans/donators etc.
In fact, BSL's competitions are mostly held in the early morning hours of China.That's why I kept emphasizing that you must make concessions on the game time.
We are willing to sponsor the other half of the prize money for BSL.But the premise is that you need to provide us with a suitable time to watch the game.
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These are pretty interesting plans. However, I am quite skeptical about the Super Gosu event and the plans for BSL Korea.
Before I explain why, let me tell you a few things you need to know.
Since I am the most active caster in the Korean scene, I will tell you about the situation in Korea.
In the case of Korea, it is probably the scene and country with the most Pro Brood War players.
Of course, the biggest "Pro" event in the Korean StarCraft scene would be ASL. The reason I say ASL is a Pro event here is because there are completely different premier events in Korea.
Nowadays, there are many female players in Korea, and they are active in forming a kind of crew called “college.” And the “War of the Colleges” content literally brings huge prize money.
To put it simply, if you win this "War of the Colleges" content, you'll get at least $16,500 in prize money ($16,500 is the smallest prize money I've seen in any "War of the Colleges" content).
Even though the “War of the Colleges” content is an event that lasts only one day, they win such ridiculous amounts of prize money. Even if popular universities use the content, the prize money increases several times more.
This is a premier event that has been popular in the Korean scene for several years now and has become the most successful content.
Therefore, many Korean professional players are affiliated with universities as teachers, and if they win the "War of the Colleges" they will also receive a large amount of compensation.
In addition, when it is not the ASL period, a huge number of contents and tournaments such as Daily Proleagues, UBE, KCM race wars, KCM B Division, SCSL, SCTV Content, etc. are planned and streamed "regularly" without interruption.
What I want to say is that in the Korean scene, as you will know by reading this article, there are a huge number of tournaments and content being cast and streamed, and thanks to donations from quite a few viewers, Korean Pro Brood War players can become self-sufficient without having to work part-time or second jobs. It's possible.
The same goes for the Chinese scene. A lot of StarCraft content is planned, streamed, and cast.
Perhaps more content is being streamed than the Korean scene.
If so, I think the Chinese scene has also created a situation where players can fully focus on practice and competition without having to work part-time or have a second job.
In the case of the South American scene, the prize pool is much lower than that of the Korean or Chinese scenes, but tournaments and content are still planned and streamed.
Of course, Latin players still have to work part-time or two jobs. But at least having regular tournaments would help them financially.
Now, let’s look at the European scene. BSL is almost the only regularly organized tournament.
The STPL and DPTL tournaments that were still taking place were all suspended.
The BWCL is a tournament with a long history and tradition, but unfortunately there is no prize money.
I actually created and run a team called StarCastTV Stats.
And my team has several foreign players, And including the best foreign players Bonyth and Sziky.
However, they are all working part-time or working two jobs. Earnings as a streamer are very minimal. There are no regular tournaments or content. That means, in practice, outside of BSL, the opportunities to win prizes by playing Brood War are even scarcer than in the South American scene.
This means that foreign players cannot compete on the same level as Korean and Chinese players in the first place. Koreans and Chinese can devote 100% to their practice. They don't need another job.
However, players excluding Korea and China reduce the amount of Brood War practice for their real lives and work part-time or take on second jobs instead of reducing their greed for competitiveness.
In this situation, will foreign players, excluding those from China, be able to advance to ASL just because they practice with Korean practice partners? I think it's absolutely impossible. Of course, if there are sponsors like Dewalt who support him, the possibility increases, but in the end, it is not much different from what I have been saying so far.
That is, what I want to say is,
Currently, the BSL is the largest and only regular foreigner tournament that offers hope to players from Europe, North America and Latin. Even if you don't plan a BSL Korea, There are already a lot of Korean tournaments. such as ASL CMSL CNSL SCSL KCM UBE, etc., and they are already fully saturated.
There is already so much content and tournaments in the Korean scene and they hate turn rate issues so much that they refuse to play even at 20 low turn rates.
They already play the daily pro league at dawn and go to sleep, and various content monopolizes the prime time schedule before the daily pro league starts. That means that the Korean scene's content is already excessive and it would be wise to use the prize money that will be used for BSL Korea to invest in creating another regular content for the foreign scene.
I'll say it again, what the foreign scene needs most is regular tournaments, not one-off content.
KCM and KCM B divisions are streamed every week during the ASL period, except for the one-month break.
UBE is always streaming except during ASL periods.
SCSL is also always streaming except during ASL periods.
During the ASL period, players focus on ASL and do not participate in any content other than the Daily Pro League.
I'm saying this sincerely. Patreon subscribers who support and donation you do so because they want to see a tournament where foreign players competing in the foreign scene and doing their best to survive in a harsh environment like a wasteland.
StarCastTV already casts ASL, SCSL, and SCTV content in English.
As you know, SCTV's English casters also have very good cast skills and reputation. Nyoken Eonzerg Scan Diggity etc
If your patreon supporters wanted to see BSL Korea, they would have already supported SCTV's patreon. Don’t make the mistake of missing out on their needs.
At the very least, if you want the foreign scene to grow and become more competitive, you could organize more regular foreign StarCraft content and tournaments to help the current top foreign players with their financial problems and get them to focus more on their practice. Providing an time to spare where players can play and practice is more helpful in improving the competitiveness of foreign players.
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Russian Federation1893 Posts
@chenchuan, how would you describe ZZZero's sincerity to pleasing a Chinese viewer and securing a Chinese sponsor in clear and straightforward English in your opinion?
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On January 26 2024 23:34 chenchuan wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2024 23:31 WGT-Baal wrote:On January 25 2024 23:03 chenchuan wrote:On January 25 2024 03:21 kAra wrote:
how bad is the ping issue vs china?
i guess making it a fight for pride and hosting a "the world" (without korea of course) vs "china" could pull in some viewers from both camps The delay is approximately 200 milliseconds，Not too bad，Mainly due to the time difference, are you willing to make concessions What concessions would work? Is it just the time? In which case special events could be done at China friendly time vs Europe (wouldn't work with SA/NA). Or would a recast in Chinese at china friendly time be a solution maybe? I doubt chinese viewers would spoil themselves reading foreign bw sites, and liquipedia etc update could be delayed until the recast. It would only be a few hours? Not sure how technically doable that is though. And it would not be quite live. Any other things that would help? Please detail them Let me come up with a simple plan. Organize a competition between China and Europe.If Europe is willing to sponsor $500.We are willing to offer an additional $500. Of course.In order to ensure the smooth progress of this competition, there are still two issues that need to be resolved. These two questions are the time difference and whether Mr. Zero really has the sincerity to cooperate with us. If you are unwilling to choose a time that is friendly to Chinese people.Or rather, Mr. Zero did not have the sincerity to cooperate with us.These two questions will make our discussion meaningless.
I m not with BSL, I was just curious. We have chinese players in bwcl but not many and no grassroot integration.
But I think ZZZero has been quite open to and generous with the chinese scene so far, despite essentially 0 benefits to himself financially, I m not sure how else he can show sincerity as you say?
On the topic of money for BWCL specifically, we would need massive (unrealistic) amount of money and help to make it worth it. We would need a complete overall of our grid to have it on a proper site, better stream production or supporting our casters financially, and also a clan league by default needs more money since you split it among the players. Typically clans hse around 10ish players a season so even giving out 500 dollars to the winner, which would already be essentially impossible for us, it d be only 50 per player, maybe 45 if the captain also takes some. That s pocket change for a 3 month long event.
We also do not want to encourage merc teams.
There is a key point you are missing as well for Europe (r Western Europe at least) and NA and it s the base cost of living and the ongoing inflationary crisis. To be able to live off BW, not comfortably at all, you would need at least 2k a month. If you are in a big city this wouldn't even cover rent+utilities. This is just not going to happen for BW, we d need full time corporate sponsorships and why would they even bother?
We could have some content creators and a few players/organisers for whom it would work (and that s great already), but we re never going to have the depth needed to actually compete as a region outside a few select individuals
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Just a reminder that BSL previously moved the broadcast time earlier (17:00 CET) compared to what it used to be. This was during BSL15 - when Chinese players were also participating. Not many, if any, Chinese viewers were watching, while it reduced viewership among existing viewers as its a pretty early start for NA/SA. And most of the BSL casters - needed for the broadcast - are in North American timezones. So afterwards the broadcast was moved back to starting around 18:00 CET, as it was before BSL 15.
As Rus_Brain said, it's not immediately clear what is being proposed though as criteria for "sincerity about cooperating".
Is it supposed to be multiple broadcasts/rebroadcasts at a specific Chinese time, with all the extra work that entails (and minimal existing audience)? Or something ala only broadcasting BSL at ASL~ times, which pretty much alienates two of the existing regions participating in BSL? (NA and SA)
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On January 27 2024 00:46 Rus_Brain wrote:
@chenchuan, how would you describe ZZZero's sincerity to pleasing a Chinese viewer and securing a Chinese sponsor in clear and straightforward English in your opinion?
Firstly, your current thinking is completely wrong.I can tell you very clearly.It is absolutely impossible for Chinese audiences to watch any content on Twitch.
So you must change your mindset.The correct approach should be to obtain funding sponsorship from China.Instead of trying to attract audiences from China.
If you want sponsorship from China, you can only collaborate with Chinese anchors.This is currently the only feasible method.
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Russian Federation1893 Posts
@chenchuan, Our perspective on wrongdoing may vastly differ because of cultural differences rather than any deliberate harm towards the Chinese community.
Many voices here have pointed to ZZZero's efforts in bridging our communities, including inviting top Chinese players and adjusting schedules to accommodate them. Time adjusting, for example, have ripple effects on multiple tournaments, requiring coordination with a group of another tournaments admins to avoid clashing. ZZZero has not asked for anything in return for these efforts.
As an ethnic Russian from Vladivostok, I have some knowledge of Chinese principles from my school days, including the concept of "huli huhui." Here is a question for you to think: Can you name any reciprocal actions from the Chinese community in this specific BSL context we're discussing? Most likely you cannot, and it must be seen as strong evidence of ZZZero's sincerity.
Regarding streaming to Chinese platforms and using Chinese services, having local ambassador support is crucial because simple sign in in such platforms as Douyu and WeChat is challenging for a laowai. If you're interested in representing BSL in China or establishing contact with the right person, it might be beneficial for both parties and lead to a mutually beneficial outcome. This particular piece of a "plain English" advice would stem from the wisdom of a nation that values win-win solutions.
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On January 28 2024 13:58 Rus_Brain wrote:
@chenchuan, Our perspective on wrongdoing may vastly differ because of cultural differences rather than any deliberate harm towards the Chinese community.
Many voices here have pointed to ZZZero's efforts in bridging our communities, including inviting top Chinese players and adjusting schedules to accommodate them. Time adjusting, for example, have ripple effects on multiple tournaments, requiring coordination with a group of another tournaments admins to avoid clashing. ZZZero has not asked for anything in return for these efforts.
As an ethnic Russian from Vladivostok, I have some knowledge of Chinese principles from my school days, including the concept of "huli huhui." Here is a question for you to think: Can you name any reciprocal actions from the Chinese community in this specific BSL context we're discussing? Most likely you cannot, and it must be seen as strong evidence of ZZZero's sincerity.
Regarding streaming to Chinese platforms and using Chinese services, having local ambassador support is crucial because simple sign in in such platforms as Douyu and WeChat is challenging for a laowai. If you're interested in representing BSL in China or establishing contact with the right person, it might be beneficial for both parties and lead to a mutually beneficial outcome. This particular piece of a "plain English" advice would stem from the wisdom of a nation that values win-win solutions.
I am not here to argue right or wrong with you.I am just providing a method for you to obtain sponsorship from China.
I have already made it very clear earlier.You cannot attract audiences from China.Collaborating with Chinese anchors to hold competitions is the only way to receive sponsorship from China.
This statement is like a concept of partnership.I hope you can understand what I mean.The audience cannot gather together, but the prize money can.
Mr. Zero used to have more contact with Chinese contestants in the past.By doing so, you can only receive Chinese contestants, but you cannot receive Chinese bonuses.
I hope someone can communicate directly with Mr. Zero.Tell him to try as much as possible to communicate and cooperate with Chinese anchors.Please note that what I am referring to here has always been a Chinese anchor, who is also the organizer of the Chinese interstellar competition.
Simply inviting Chinese athletes to participate is not beneficial for you.But Chinese anchors can help you raise funds and increase your visibility.
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On January 28 2024 00:13 chenchuan wrote:
I can tell you very clearly.It is absolutely impossible for Chinese audiences to watch any content on Twitch.
Considering this, which is my understanding too, changing the times to accomodate live Chinese viewership is irrelevant. But providing a clean feed to willing/paying Chinese broadcasters after the live taping seems like it solves the issue.
The time accomodations really only effect the players, so that should be considered for all regions, but the viewing time is less important if watching it live for Chinese folks isn't even an option.
Same as rebroadcasts of any global sporting event.
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On January 24 2024 01:46 iopq wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2024 17:22 Rus_Brain wrote:
That will be a real challenge to convince Chiense to donate to the laowai online/LAN tournament. If Chinese players play in it, and make money from it, Chinese fans should donate
I had posted responses to comments like this in Discord previously, but I will respond here again.
Please check the facts before making some overall comments - it's pretty easy.
Chinese viewers do sponsor - We just received ~$740 from two Chinese sponsors yesterday. They didn't donate because they love watching BSL (there's almost no audience in mainland China, as people need to use a VPN); they did it because Mihu had won three championships. I have personally donated $600+ to BSL, too. It is unfair to ask Chinese viewers to donate to BSL when they don't watch it. But if we can keep the communication flowing, we might get some significant sponsors in China interested and involved.
Dewalt is another example. I hope you all watched his many show matches since he went to Korea earlier this month. When the connection is not an issue, and you have someone from China to stream, Chinese viewers like to see him play against top Chinese players. I have sponsored $160+ so far, and several other ppl sponsored show matches as well. There will be another bo7 between him and Xiaoshuai tomorrow.
At last, I want the efforts of volunteers from China, including myself, to be seen. We helped coordinate between the Chinese players and other BSL participants, test speed, interpret, and arrange pre-plays. Jindi uploaded and updated all the statistics on Liquipedia. I helped transfer funds in RMB to the Chinese players and paid all the transaction fees myself.
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On January 25 2024 03:21 kAra wrote:
how bad is the ping issue vs china?
i guess making it a fight for pride and hosting a "the world" (without korea of course) vs "china" could pull in some viewers from both camps
Connection has always been an issue. Unfortunately, it seems Blizzard is the only one who can fix it. When I first came to TL and tried to host show matches around 2018, the games were almost unplayable. When I organized the first EU vs China event in 2021 together with Zero, we could only get TR16 High. We have made numerous tests and worked with Sanpao (the no.1 BW streamer in China) to find a solution, but it is impossible.
On the other hand, Chinese players can play under TR24 low smoothly with Korean players, and multiple show matches are played daily with top Korean amateurs & ex-pros.
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personally, I think that Chinese players in BSL gave a big breath of fresh air. The foreign scene is definitely staling, no new players (it's probably shrinking tbh) and the overall ranking is always about the same.
Chinese players are great and they are tough opponents, generally a bit stronger than the rest of the foreign scene but not totally impossible to overcome.
Of course there are other things to be considered from the organizers: lag, scheduling, donations, sponsors, etc.
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Chinese players make BSL very competitive. I also see it very wrong people saying over and over that chineses are not bringing money or sponsors. If i was ZZZero i will be so happy those high level players were taking part of my tourney so i can show the world a better competition. But well that is me i guess. ZZZero made BSL to crown the best starcraft player outside Korea so im not sure if bringing koreans to the pool changes the vision. But is true that evolution is good so who knows.
Also is kinda crazy the job that calvinbobo does to make the life easier to chinese players. Im not exagerating when im saying the guy does a job of a personal manager. Interpret and didnt know he also took care of finances. He is doing all that job at crazy hours. So props to him for real. Idk if the chinese players are paying him but what he does is insane.
I been part of the scene for a long time. I used to play tourneys for 10$ When yoda was doing tourneys at defiler.ru
These days ZZZero gets more than 7000$ to each BSL season. All of that coming from people willing to donate to the less skilled competition in Starcraft. (Korea, China are better it is what it is.) I kind of miss the days were people actually loved to play the game and make fun tournaments rather than be focused on. If we reach this amount im going to make a tourney. Or if we reach this amount im gonna do this. In my opinion that is a wrong aproach. And the most important is be sure what audience do you want to reach. How do you expect to reach chinese viewers if they cant even watch twitch or the time zone is terrible for them to watch ? Like i said before foreigner BW tier skill is super low. Who in his right mind gonna wake up at 4 am to watch Madinho vs Gosudark fighting each other for 40 minutes making blunders. Lets be real. ( Nothing personal Madinho. Just an example bro )
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On January 28 2024 00:13 chenchuan wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2024 00:46 Rus_Brain wrote:
@chenchuan, how would you describe ZZZero's sincerity to pleasing a Chinese viewer and securing a Chinese sponsor in clear and straightforward English in your opinion? Firstly, your current thinking is completely wrong.I can tell you very clearly.It is absolutely impossible for Chinese audiences to watch any content on Twitch.
I manage, but I browse the web scientifically
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On January 30 2024 01:21 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
Like i said before foreigner BW tier skill is super low.
You weren't at the Thailand LAN, but Bonyth and Dewalt beat Sharp multiple times off stream. How can that happen when their skill is super low?
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On January 30 2024 01:21 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:Chinese players make BSL very competitive. I also see it very wrong people saying over and over that chineses are not bringing money or sponsors. If i was ZZZero i will be so happy those high level players were taking part of my tourney so i can show the world a better competition. But well that is me i guess. ZZZero made BSL to crown the best starcraft player outside Korea so im not sure if bringing koreans to the pool changes the vision. But is true that evolution is good so who knows. Also is kinda crazy the job that calvinbobo does to make the life easier to chinese players. Im not exagerating when im saying the guy does a job of a personal manager. Interpret and didnt know he also took care of finances. He is doing all that job at crazy hours. So props to him for real. Idk if the chinese players are paying him but what he does is insane. I been part of the scene for a long time. I used to play tourneys for 10$ When yoda was doing tourneys at defiler.ru These days ZZZero gets more than 7000$ to each BSL season. All of that coming from people willing to donate to the less skilled competition in Starcraft. (Korea, China are better it is what it is.) I kind of miss the days were people actually loved to play the game and make fun tournaments rather than be focused on. If we reach this amount im going to make a tourney. Or if we reach this amount im gonna do this. In my opinion that is a wrong aproach. And the most important is be sure what audience do you want to reach. How do you expect to reach chinese viewers if they cant even watch twitch or the time zone is terrible for them to watch ? Like i said before foreigner BW tier skill is super low. Who in his right mind gonna wake up at 4 am to watch Madinho vs Gosudark fighting each other for 40 minutes making blunders. Lets be real. ( Nothing personal Madinho. Just an example bro )
im not sure if you compare apples and lemons. If we lool at the BSL final stages, we see close competitions between chinese players and top westerners. (Bony, Dewalt, Sziky) In fact, i see the latter three ahead more often than not against any chinese but Mihu who is a calibre of his own in all fairness. Yes players like Mad, GosuD make blunders in comparison to top chinese and top westeners, but how do they compare against their chinese counterparts? We have a lot more western players in BSL than chinese, ofc the chinese you see are top of the crops.
I agree with your other points tho. im not sure either if it makes sense to focus so much on X $ raised to hold the next event. Especially if it is like 10k, which is hard to reach these days tbh.
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On January 30 2024 10:19 iopq wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2024 01:21 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
Like i said before foreigner BW tier skill is super low. You weren't at the Thailand LAN, but Bonyth and Dewalt beat Sharp multiple times off stream. How can that happen when their skill is super low?
Maybe he didnt try so hard ? And i was talking about the whole scene. Bonyth and Dewalt being good doesnt make the whole scene by magic top tier.
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On January 30 2024 17:42 Cele wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2024 01:21 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:Chinese players make BSL very competitive. I also see it very wrong people saying over and over that chineses are not bringing money or sponsors. If i was ZZZero i will be so happy those high level players were taking part of my tourney so i can show the world a better competition. But well that is me i guess. ZZZero made BSL to crown the best starcraft player outside Korea so im not sure if bringing koreans to the pool changes the vision. But is true that evolution is good so who knows. Also is kinda crazy the job that calvinbobo does to make the life easier to chinese players. Im not exagerating when im saying the guy does a job of a personal manager. Interpret and didnt know he also took care of finances. He is doing all that job at crazy hours. So props to him for real. Idk if the chinese players are paying him but what he does is insane. I been part of the scene for a long time. I used to play tourneys for 10$ When yoda was doing tourneys at defiler.ru These days ZZZero gets more than 7000$ to each BSL season. All of that coming from people willing to donate to the less skilled competition in Starcraft. (Korea, China are better it is what it is.) I kind of miss the days were people actually loved to play the game and make fun tournaments rather than be focused on. If we reach this amount im going to make a tourney. Or if we reach this amount im gonna do this. In my opinion that is a wrong aproach. And the most important is be sure what audience do you want to reach. How do you expect to reach chinese viewers if they cant even watch twitch or the time zone is terrible for them to watch ? Like i said before foreigner BW tier skill is super low. Who in his right mind gonna wake up at 4 am to watch Madinho vs Gosudark fighting each other for 40 minutes making blunders. Lets be real. ( Nothing personal Madinho. Just an example bro ) im not sure if you compare apples and lemons. If we lool at the BSL final stages, we see close competitions between chinese players and top westerners. (Bony, Dewalt, Sziky) In fact, i see the latter three ahead more often than not against any chinese but Mihu who is a calibre of his own in all fairness. Yes players like Mad, GosuD make blunders in comparison to top chinese and top westeners, but how do they compare against their chinese counterparts? We have a lot more western players in BSL than chinese, ofc the chinese you see are top of the crops. I agree with your other points tho. im not sure either if it makes sense to focus so much on X $ raised to hold the next event. Especially if it is like 10k, which is hard to reach these days tbh.
Idk i feel like we are saying the same thing. If you check chinese results in liquipedia Mihu get beaten by many chinese players so overall there is a bigger player base close in skill. By your words only the later stages from BSL are worth looking at then ? Tell me how often did you watch BSL group stages rounds etc ? Is it worth waking up at 4 am in China to watch it ? Is there even a chinese caster covering it ? xd
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On January 30 2024 18:16 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2024 17:42 Cele wrote:On January 30 2024 01:21 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:Chinese players make BSL very competitive. I also see it very wrong people saying over and over that chineses are not bringing money or sponsors. If i was ZZZero i will be so happy those high level players were taking part of my tourney so i can show the world a better competition. But well that is me i guess. ZZZero made BSL to crown the best starcraft player outside Korea so im not sure if bringing koreans to the pool changes the vision. But is true that evolution is good so who knows. Also is kinda crazy the job that calvinbobo does to make the life easier to chinese players. Im not exagerating when im saying the guy does a job of a personal manager. Interpret and didnt know he also took care of finances. He is doing all that job at crazy hours. So props to him for real. Idk if the chinese players are paying him but what he does is insane. I been part of the scene for a long time. I used to play tourneys for 10$ When yoda was doing tourneys at defiler.ru These days ZZZero gets more than 7000$ to each BSL season. All of that coming from people willing to donate to the less skilled competition in Starcraft. (Korea, China are better it is what it is.) I kind of miss the days were people actually loved to play the game and make fun tournaments rather than be focused on. If we reach this amount im going to make a tourney. Or if we reach this amount im gonna do this. In my opinion that is a wrong aproach. And the most important is be sure what audience do you want to reach. How do you expect to reach chinese viewers if they cant even watch twitch or the time zone is terrible for them to watch ? Like i said before foreigner BW tier skill is super low. Who in his right mind gonna wake up at 4 am to watch Madinho vs Gosudark fighting each other for 40 minutes making blunders. Lets be real. ( Nothing personal Madinho. Just an example bro ) im not sure if you compare apples and lemons. If we lool at the BSL final stages, we see close competitions between chinese players and top westerners. (Bony, Dewalt, Sziky) In fact, i see the latter three ahead more often than not against any chinese but Mihu who is a calibre of his own in all fairness. Yes players like Mad, GosuD make blunders in comparison to top chinese and top westeners, but how do they compare against their chinese counterparts? We have a lot more western players in BSL than chinese, ofc the chinese you see are top of the crops. I agree with your other points tho. im not sure either if it makes sense to focus so much on X $ raised to hold the next event. Especially if it is like 10k, which is hard to reach these days tbh. Idk i feel like we are saying the same thing. If you check chinese results in liquipedia Mihu get beaten by many chinese players so overall there is a bigger player base close in skill. By your words only the later stages from BSL are worth looking at then ? Tell me how often did you watch BSL group stages rounds etc ? Is it worth waking up at 4 am in China to watch it ? Is there even a chinese caster covering it ? xd
yeah i guess we are going in the same direction. I watch nearly all group stage games in BSL and not much chinese events. But by logic: chinese player base is bigger, thus the gaps in skill from each "tier" to the next are bigger within westerners. In fact they are pretty big in BSL if we are honest about it, no offense to any participant. In your initial statement you said " foreigner BW tier skill is super low" which is only wrong because you said it about everybody.
I think it is comparable to China at the very top but not so much on 2nd and 3rd tier.
Agreed?
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Super low compared to Korea and China i still keep it. Just look how good chineses did in ACS recently outperforming korean semipros.(funny enough Mihu didnt do that well in that one ) Just look at it as Football divisions 1 2 and 3. There is not doubt there are good football players in division 3 but overall the lvl is not up to division 1 and 2.
BTW. to be clear im not shitting on Foreign BW. Im just saying that why will chineses tune in at a terrible time zone to watch a division 3 match that is all. So is not crazy at all that BSL is not popular in China even if Mihu win it all the time. People just dont tune in.
Hell i myself will not wake up at 4 am to watch Korea bw either.
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''Super low compared to Korea and China i still keep'' not even close to true: many players can and many times they won against top China players, and some match played around 14:00 cet with 16 low( you are zerg you know what means example in tvz ) I'm also talking about them Gypsy,Oya,Boa there were people who did this while working or at least not earn 40k+++++ dollar /years with significant better opportunity for the practice.
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On January 30 2024 18:56 sas.Sziky wrote:
''Super low compared to Korea and China i still keep'' not even close to true: many players can and many times they won against top China players, and some match played around 14:00 cet with 16 low( you are zerg you know what means example in tvz ) I'm also talking about them Gypsy,Oya,Boa there were people who did this while working or at least not earn 40k+++++ dollar /years with significant better opportunity for the practice.
Super low is poor word choice by me. My bad.
But i have to say i also consider Chinese skill low compared to Korea skill. Honestly i will not claim Chinese skill is way higher than foreigner players but is still high.
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On January 30 2024 18:30 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
Super low compared to Korea and China i still keep it. Just look how good chineses did in ACS recently outperforming korean semipros.(funny enough Mihu didnt do that well in that one ) Just look at it as Football divisions 1 2 and 3. There is not doubt there are good football players in division 3 but overall the lvl is not up to division 1 and 2.
BTW. to be clear im not shitting on Foreign BW. Im just saying that why will chineses tune in at a terrible time zone to watch a division 3 match that is all. So is not crazy at all that BSL is not popular in China even if Mihu win it all the time. People just dont tune in.
Hell i myself will not wake up at 4 am to watch Korea bw either.
Nah this we can not agree upon. Look at the series Dewalt Bony and Sziky played in BSL vs Mihu. Also who is always place 2-4 in BSL? XiaoShuai? QiaoGege? Zhanhun? No, its westerners. Also look at recent show matches Dewalt vs Mihu.
I think you mean by average, but i think it makes no sense to compare it in total, but compare different groups of players. The level in China is higher over all, but at the very top, not by much.
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im not even sure what we arguing anymore. There are way more high level players in China than in our scene. There are atleast 10 players in China close to Dewalt and Bonyth. And Dewalt and bonyth are way ahead of the rest in our scene. So im not sure what we arguing anymore. Im just telling you chineses are not gonna tune in to watch any foreigner tourney or random foreigner videos if they are not playing vs chinese players. Hell i bet very few chineses will watch a bonyth vs dewalt even.
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Look what a foreigner tournament line looks like compared to a chinese tournament talent of players.
foreigner line from last BSL 17
chinese line
i left out other groups since there are chinese players in the mix. and the point is to show the talent pool..
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On January 30 2024 20:08 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
im not even sure what we arguing anymore. There are way more high level players in China than in our scene. There are atleast 10 players in China close to Dewalt and Bonyth. And Dewalt and bonyth are way ahead of the rest in our scene. So im not sure what we arguing anymore. Im just telling you chineses are not gonna tune in to watch any foreigner tourney or random foreigner videos if they are not playing vs chinese players. Hell i bet very few chineses will watch a bonyth vs dewalt even.
i think we mean the same thing basically, you just expressed it more drastic: "super low skill" than i would have. But in general i agree that the talent pool is much deeper. Well, as you said no reason to argue about it.
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I don't understand why it is necessary to compare. China: 500k dollar / year or more,less maybe a Chinese can say it how much exactly. Foreign 40k ? +practice different. and there 1-2 things in which you are wrong but ggs for me
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On January 30 2024 19:52 Cele wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2024 18:30 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
Super low compared to Korea and China i still keep it. Just look how good chineses did in ACS recently outperforming korean semipros.(funny enough Mihu didnt do that well in that one ) Just look at it as Football divisions 1 2 and 3. There is not doubt there are good football players in division 3 but overall the lvl is not up to division 1 and 2.
BTW. to be clear im not shitting on Foreign BW. Im just saying that why will chineses tune in at a terrible time zone to watch a division 3 match that is all. So is not crazy at all that BSL is not popular in China even if Mihu win it all the time. People just dont tune in.
Hell i myself will not wake up at 4 am to watch Korea bw either. Nah this we can not agree upon. Look at the series Dewalt Bony and Sziky played in BSL vs Mihu. Also who is always place 2-4 in BSL? XiaoShuai? QiaoGege? Zhanhun? No, its westerners. Also look at recent show matches Dewalt vs Mihu. I think you mean by average, but i think it makes no sense to compare it in total, but compare different groups of players. The level in China is higher over all, but at the very top, not by much.
Speaking of Mihu, he has just been eliminated in ro8 of CSL by Zhanhun. He will lose seed status and have to start from qualifiers in the next CSL. This is not the only time Mihu didn't make it into ro4 -- in CSL9 (half a year ago), Mihu was also stopped by Zhanhun in ro8. In fact, Mihu only won one of the latest 5 CSLs. That just speaks to the extreme competitiveness of the Chinese scene.
Many top Chinese talents choose not to participate in BSL because of high latency and time zone differences: Zhanhun, Fengzi, AP, Jedi, Dugu, just to name a few. Every one of them has comparable level of skills as Dewalt or Bonyth.
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Update:
I got $600 donation from Gan (Chinese sponsor) and $141 from ZiAn (Chinese sponsor)
Additionally, Rus_Brain, as eSport.Fund, supported BSL18 with $2,500!
Huge thanks!!!!
That means that we are missing only $1400 to reach the full BSL18 goal!
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EPT
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/rCHOYcG.png)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/CSs7HeV.png)
