EPTSoulKey gets scammed again, drops out from SC uni - Page 2
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arbiter_md
Moldova1219 Posts
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jinjin5000
United States1381 Posts
On October 18 2022 14:57 MeSaber wrote: How is he the biggest victim? Dont they pay an equal amount per apartment? It for me seems like they live very close to one another if not in the same building. If a landlord scammed em all there cant be any way to get away with it. Its too obvious and he will get hunted down. The crypto stuff were a low blow and they didnt deserve donations after that. Thats why i have no respect for beggars that throw donations down the drain from gambling. And sk has been by far the biggest one. other pros are getting scammed by different stuff a lot of times. The whole house rent thing is soulkey and some other streamers recently (not related) but its common enough nowadays | ||
CaucasianAsian
Korea (South)11568 Posts
On October 18 2022 15:45 arbiter_md wrote: These stories seem so unreal, it's hard to believe they actually happen. Don't they have laws there? Is it a wild west? Feel sorry for SK. I would not leave that apartment until I get my money back. It really depends on the details. Korea doesn't have the same tenant protective laws that many countries in the west do. The 4 most common types of Jeonse fraud that occur are: 1) Third Party Contract - This is when a tenant signs a jeonse contract with a third party, either a real-estate agency, or someone who the landlord has given such rights to. Then the third party would instead say that the tenant signed a wolse contract, pocketing the jeonse. In this case, neither the tenant nor the landlord is at fault. 2) Jeonse Exceeding Home Value - This is when a landlord buys a home, then collects a jeonse payment that is near, or exceeds the value of the home. The landlord will then transfer the ownership of the home to someone who does not have the financial power to return the jeonse to the tenant (by putting the home up for auction). In this event, the tenant may be able to receive the home as compensation, but this is a long legal process. 3) Multiple Tenants - This is when a landlord will sign multiple contracts with multiple tenants for the same home. Obviously, the landlord is at fault, and figuring out who gets to live there, and who gets their money back, is a long legal battle. 4) Magement Fraud - This is when the landlord uses a real estate management company to manage the property. In this scenario the management company has all authority to the property and tenants must sign contracts with the management company. If the landlord still signs a contract with a tenant without involving the management property, the management property can kick the tenant out, and as they gave money to someone who is not legally in charge of the property, then they may not be able to get their money back without a long legal battle. There are other schemes as well, such as the landlord spending all of the jeonse money and not being able to pay back the tenant, or skipping town, or falsely declaring they own a property when they don't, etc... I don't want to jump to conclusions as to what the situation is like for SoulKey, either which way, it sounds like a shitty situation to be in and I wish him the best. | ||
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SC-Shield
Bulgaria805 Posts
So 100 sq m is 1 million euro. Average net salary is 2500 euro. Set aside 1250 euro/month, so 50% of net salary to pay mortgage. That's ~67 years and if it's interest-free which it isn't. Just wow. I see why gamble, crypto and scam are a thing there. Prices are too inflated. Edit: By comparison, my country which is of roughly the same size as South Korea. That's ~27 years when taking into account the same factors (average net salary, sq m price, excluding interest, etc). And yes, population density is surely a factor here as well. | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4100 Posts
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oxKnu
1133 Posts
On October 18 2022 16:19 CaucasianAsian wrote: It really depends on the details. Korea doesn't have the same tenant protective laws that many countries in the west do. The 4 most common types of Jeonse fraud that occur are: 1) Third Party Contract - This is when a tenant signs a jeonse contract with a third party, either a real-estate agency, or someone who the landlord has given such rights to. Then the third party would instead say that the tenant signed a wolse contract, pocketing the jeonse. In this case, neither the tenant nor the landlord is at fault. 2) Jeonse Exceeding Home Value - This is when a landlord buys a home, then collects a jeonse payment that is near, or exceeds the value of the home. The landlord will then transfer the ownership of the home to someone who does not have the financial power to return the jeonse to the tenant (by putting the home up for auction). In this event, the tenant may be able to receive the home as compensation, but this is a long legal process. 3) Multiple Tenants - This is when a landlord will sign multiple contracts with multiple tenants for the same home. Obviously, the landlord is at fault, and figuring out who gets to live there, and who gets their money back, is a long legal battle. 4) Magement Fraud - This is when the landlord uses a real estate management company to manage the property. In this scenario the management company has all authority to the property and tenants must sign contracts with the management company. If the landlord still signs a contract with a tenant without involving the management property, the management property can kick the tenant out, and as they gave money to someone who is not legally in charge of the property, then they may not be able to get their money back without a long legal battle. There are other schemes as well, such as the landlord spending all of the jeonse money and not being able to pay back the tenant, or skipping town, or falsely declaring they own a property when they don't, etc... I don't want to jump to conclusions as to what the situation is like for SoulKey, either which way, it sounds like a shitty situation to be in and I wish him the best. 😂 I have to admit, those are some pretty terrible laws. No protection for the end-consumer there. It's incredible how governments can stay in power and have these cancerous laws run through the system for so many years. We should learn protesting in schools as a basic skill of life. | ||
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prosatan
Romania7423 Posts
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WGT-Baal
France3319 Posts
On October 18 2022 18:49 SC-Shield wrote: 10k euro/sq m for an apartment outside city centre according to: https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/Seoul?displayCurrency=EUR So 100 sq m is 1 million euro. Average net salary is 2500 euro. Set aside 1250 euro/month, so 50% of net salary to pay mortgage. That's ~67 years and if it's interest-free which it isn't. Just wow. I see why gamble, crypto and scam are a thing there. Prices are too inflated. Edit: By comparison, my country which is of roughly the same size as South Korea. That's ~27 years when taking into account the same factors (average net salary, sq m price, excluding interest, etc). And yes, population density is surely a factor here as well. Those are very common prices for any city this size. Paris and London are the same. If you go in the city centre you re even looking at 13 or even 15k euro/sq m (for "desirable neighbourhoods"). I d wager NYC is up there too but probably higher salary over there. Even if you make 6 figures, interest rates are high so it s still rough, you d need to have 200k+ income and even then it s tax bracket dependent. System is completely crooked every where but even more abused in Korea with such amounts in deposit just for rent. A lot of politicians are older and usually wealthy, they don't run into this issue and actually benefit from high prices as long as there are still some people to pay that price. (what a depressing post lol I m sorry folks, I require more minerals) That scam is also fairly common (which also blew my mind first time I heard about it). Poor SK, the first scam he was just stupid, but this one honestly it could happen to (almost) anybody. | ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49496 Posts
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19152 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49496 Posts
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cha0
Canada501 Posts
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LUCKY_NOOB
Bulgaria1367 Posts
On October 18 2022 08:11 CaucasianAsian wrote: It's not mentioned how much money is involved, but Korea has main 2 systems for renting. 1) Wolse - a deposit (usually ~$10,000 for a small studio, can go up to mid-6 figures for nicer higher-end 3 or 4 bedroom apartments) and monthly payments (depending on how much your deposit is, usually $300 - $600). 2) Jeonse - Pretty much giving the landlord up to 80% of the home's value to live rent-free (excluding utilities). The average 3 bedroom apartment in Seoul costs ~ $1 Million, so this can be up to $800,000 that you give the landlord to live for 2 years. Most people take out loans to do this, as the interest is significantly cheaper than paying on a monthly basis. At the end of the contract, the landlord must pay back the tenant the deposit / jeonse money. But as these are quite significant sums of money, many landlord use this money to invest in other properties and create, in essence, a semi-ponzi scheme. This is why it is very highly recommended that tenants also buy insurance to cover this loss, because even if you sue the landlord it's very unlikely that you get even a % of that money back. The current economy isn't doing great, housing prices are falling, and interest rates are extraordinarily high so less new tenants to pay back old ones (with cheaper new contracts), so this is going to be more common in the near future. It looks like SoulKey did Jeonse, so he could have very well lost a significant amount of money. I got a semi-Ponzi for the semi-finals... Turns out it was a full on scam and my errection is never coming back! Hard come, easy go... Disgusting! -_- | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On October 19 2022 02:41 cha0 wrote: I'm really confused by this Jeonse concept. If you have 80% of a house's value in cash available to deposit for this Jeonse what is stopping people from just buying a similarly priced house to own. Are mortgages commanding >80% down payment?? The laws as described in this thread seems like government enabled scamming. Jeonse seems to me like you're trading your borrowing ability for 2 years to the landlord in exchange for a place to live, and you take all of the risk for the landlords investments, because the property legally isn't even collateral unless explicitly stated. It's significantly less money than a mortgage because you only pay interest (probably ~1/3 of a regular rent payment), and not principle, and it doesn't seem like you need cash on hand either, only the ability to use a line of credit or something. Seems like ridiculously high stakes renting to me(like, insanity level stakes. I would NEVER take that risk). You save more compared to renting regularly, in exchange for absolutely ruining your life if it goes south. Like I get that if you make an average wage, it could be 10-20% of your income in extra savings a year, but that is some crazy level of risk. | ||
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Miragee
8427 Posts
On October 19 2022 02:41 cha0 wrote: I'm really confused by this Jeonse concept. If you have 80% of a house's value in cash available to deposit for this Jeonse what is stopping people from just buying a similarly priced house to own. Are mortgages commanding >80% down payment?? The laws as described in this thread seems like government enabled scamming. As far as I understood from an earlier post, Jeonse is usually financed by taking a loan just like mortgages. However, the loan cap for Jeonse is much higher than for mortgages. | ||
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KwarK
United States41934 Posts
On October 19 2022 03:57 Miragee wrote: As far as I understood from an earlier post, Jeonse is usually financed by taking a loan just like mortgages. However, the loan cap for Jeonse is much higher than for mortgages. Presumably because it’s “risk free” if you get the insurance. The bank gives the money to a title company which obtains insurance and gives the balance to the homeowner. After 2 years the homeowner either returns the money or the insurance company does but it goes straight back to the bank either way. | ||
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outscar
2828 Posts
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ShloobeR
Korea (South)3804 Posts
It is quite common for people to take out loans at a bank to buy a property, with the collateral for that loan being the anticipated Jeonse deposit coming in from a future tenant. (you buy the house but never live in it) Then using that money you can put down the Jeonse deposit for a 2nd property and live there. I have met a decent amount of people who own houses larger than the ones they Jeonse-rent currently. Jeonse for some people can act as insurance against an uncertain housing market, since your Jeonse deposit value is fixed you can avoid the dangers of suddenly dropping house prices (although the market has been trending upwards over the last few years). This can also lead to situations where the house value can potentially drop below the value of the Jeonse (which can obviously be tempting). I think people who let houses through the Jeonse system are loathe to invest in the stock market as they have 'succeeded' in the housing market, but when their investments go bad those massive jeonse deposits can become difficult to pay back, the insurance becomes pretty important. Essentially letting the insurance company go after and sue the house owner instead of you. (although sometimes the houseowners just straight up disappear) It's a really interesting system that at its best allows people a lower entry point (relative to market value) to stop paying rent and increase their savings. But at its worst is a massive house of cards which, if the economy fluctuates wildly, causes massive problems. | ||
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oxKnu
1133 Posts
So this Jeonse thing seems like a huge scam when you understand that very basic fact. Unless, you know that you can triple/quadruple your income in a relatively short timespan (<5 years) to cover for the losses somehow. | ||
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v1p3r52
New Zealand182 Posts
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