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Hey guys, I'm watching BW before YouTube was a thing, downloading video of Garimto and Slayers boxer I don't know where and watching them in a quality that would make a hawk blind.
Time passed, pretty fast, I'm still watching it and Im becoming pretty worried about BW surviving in Korea, but Ive noticed a trend where the community start to be more active in crowdfunding for example for the cast ASL.
More recently I've seen the FFA on Artosis with all PGM, and also StarCastTV doing special all star foreigner vs progamer (Truly awesome, I became a Patreon hoping to have more).
Beside watching I'm not a pro of the scene and the esport industry, I'd like to know if this is a new trend and if there is way to help? Is more money required? Are you looking for sponsors for example? or its others problems and dynamics?
I'm here out of curiosity about what can be done, but also Im fairly sure I can find a bit of money if sponsor slot are available.
I can see Bitcoin/crypto communities supporting some events and I could help with that (crypto community and marketing is my job).
not sure what I will get posting that, I was about to DM somewhere Artosis, Scan or Nyoken but its hard to reach them (open your twitter dm guys!), and I thought it was maybe better to post here before I'm sure only hardcore expert are still remaining here anyway :D
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my first post on TL too. welcome!
i'm not a pro or even that decent at the game. that said, the biggest problem facing brood war is a lack of new players. korea, foreign, doesn't matter. amateurs are coming up but only because the pros that once crushed them have moved on with their lives to start families, build sustainable careers, etc. money is an issue as well, but ultimately it comes down to the lack of new players.
new people have told me it's just too much to learn. even F rank on the ladder is filled with players who are decent (compared to total newcomers). a friend of mine told me me the ladder is so intense and the players have so much knowledge, there's nobody at that noob level. new players jump on ladder, get bodied, then quit out of frustration.
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yes Starcraft is the hardest online game ever created, its not kind for noob, the skill gap between each rank is gigantic, I've played 5-6 years and I was still a noob. :D
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I know the audience rating of asl11 final is more than 250000. With so many people paying attention to BW, why can't South Korea have Proleague again 
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Who would pay for a new Proleague?
KeSPA doesn't care about Brood War. The KeSPA teams have their hands full with League of Legends LCK and international ventures. Most of the old PL team sponsors like Samsung & Jin Air have ditched eSports completely. OGN is dead, and I don't think AfreecaTV wants PL back to be honest.
Not to mention the fact most of the older players value their independence and wouldn't willingly re-join a KeSPA team. Korean BW is no longer a team sport and has morphed into a kind of equivalent to the PGA Tour in golf.
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This is true, so I feel like its important to have it supported by the community of viewers and not anymore by professional entities in Korea, we can't really count on them to have BW surviving in good condition IMO
That's the reason of my post Im wondering if there is some sponsoring/money needed for side event created about westerner like Artosis or StarCast, or if the problem is larger than that. Because if only money is needed to make stuffs happen, I think its doable.
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The Korean scene can never be restored to the state of the Kespa era. However, what we have in this Afreeca era is decent enough.
For official tournaments like ASL & ASTL, Afreeca is always looking for sponsors.You can just contact them. In fact esport.fund actually sponsored Flash's team during the last ASTL.
For community organized tournaments, we have Castermuse who regularly runs tournaments for players not qualified for ASL. This is where new bloods can be nurtured. I'm sure he'll appreciate any amounts of support. I'm not sure Starcast TV are based in Korea or not, but they seem to have close connection with the KR scene. They can work with some financial support as well.
Korean pros are doing their own version of Proleague almost every day, with the prize pool contributed by their fans on stream. That'd be another way to help, although at the moment I dont see the likes of Best or Queen having any troubles gathering donations from fans.
But most of the old pros are in their early 30s now, they'll retire soon, one by one. It's the new, yound amateurs that need more help.
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On June 21 2021 22:34 TMNT wrote:
It's the new, yound amateurs that need more help.
who?
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On June 21 2021 23:02 ggsimida wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2021 22:34 TMNT wrote:
It's the new, yound amateurs that need more help. who?
There aren't many tbh. If I'm a young player and wants to go pro, I'd probably choose LOL or something. But there are some for sure. Less famous players who play in the Castermuse Starleague, unknown players who cannot qualified for ASL, former members of team Postiz (see the other topic from Cruiser),... Unlike the old pros who can comfortably live off donations from streaming and etc., I can't imagine these players not having a main job to support themselves. If gaming activities cant earn them enough, eventually they'll just give up and become casual players. And when all the pros retire, you don't have competitive BW at the highest level anymore. That's what I imagine the KR scene will eventually become.
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I'm not sure about BW as a whole, but the streamers seem to earn more than enough to live.
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On June 21 2021 22:34 TMNT wrote:
The Korean scene can never be restored to the state of the Kespa era. However, what we have in this Afreeca era is decent enough.
For official tournaments like ASL & ASTL, Afreeca is always looking for sponsors.You can just contact them. In fact esport.fund actually sponsored Flash's team during the last ASTL.
For community organized tournaments, we have Castermuse who regularly runs tournaments for players not qualified for ASL. This is where new bloods can be nurtured. I'm sure he'll appreciate any amounts of support. I'm not sure Starcast TV are based in Korea or not, but they seem to have close connection with the KR scene. They can work with some financial support as well.
Korean pros are doing their own version of Proleague almost every day, with the prize pool contributed by their fans on stream. That'd be another way to help, although at the moment I dont see the likes of Best or Queen having any troubles gathering donations from fans.
But most of the old pros are in their early 30s now, they'll retire soon, one by one. It's the new, yound amateurs that need more help.
Thank you good recap, BW need new blood, but I doubt it will happen significantly, what Im worried is more the actual pool of players retiring or not playing enough to keep the highest level.
I'm happy to learn that they are doing their own version of Proleague, never watched that, maybe I should and simply contribute there. I will keep digging thanks for all info
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They run their own proleague games online on their streams. 4v4 format, PL and KOTH sets with Ace decider.
If you want to support competitive BW at the highest level that would be the place to go + whatever official online/offline events Afreeca puts up.
For new players to join in in significant numbers you need an active e-sports scene and that doesn't exist without corporate money or a very large and resourceful worldwide community backing up the scene through donations and financial support.
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It's really surprising that it's still said about Proleague.
I am Korean and I run a StarCastTV channel.
Let's talk about Proleague's problems.
1. Gamers are already getting a lot of money from streaming.
This is based on superstars who could easily make it to ASL standard Ro.24. Otherwise, gamers are poor.
But it's very natural. It goes without saying that the better you are, the more money you make.
Their earnings will be the basis of their salaries when redesigning the Proleague.
2. Realistic problems.
Now, most gamers are dating or married, and some gamers have children.
If they make Proleague again, they will have to live in the team's quarters.
I'm not sure if they'll ever be able to quit free streaming and start living as pro gamers.
3. Corporate (Sponsor) Issues.
This is the most important issue.
Proleague basically needs a lot of pro gaming teams.
In the past, many Korean companies created professional game teams.
KT , SKT , STX , CJ etc
Why they withdrew their investment.
Because of the match-fixing scandal.
Korean companies invested in the team considering the growth of viewers in their teens and twenties, who mostly watched Star League.
Think about it. When KT's teenage fans turn 20, they can use KT's mobile phone.
In addition, large corporations invested in the pure passion and symbolism of hard work of teenagers and 20s.
However, due to the match-fixing scandal, the pure image of Star League has been tainted.
This problem continued in the Star 2 league, and also in ASL (Sky did a match fix)
Overcoming these issues, I don't think the pro league will ever resurrect.
A common problem between Star 1 and Star 2, at least in Korea, was that there was no new blood.
But for Star 2, at least hope was made.
Percival, he's on the stage in StarCraft 2 as a new young blood.
However, Star 1 is a much more difficult and difficult game than Star 2.
I continue to be with the former Postiz members.
In my opinion, if they grow up well, I expect them to become Star 1 Percivals, but the support for them is very poor. This is the real problem.
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On June 22 2021 07:08 Cruiser0929 wrote:
It's really surprising that it's still said about Proleague.
I am Korean and I run a StarCastTV channel.
Let's talk about Proleague's problems.
1. Gamers are already getting a lot of money from streaming.
This is based on superstars who could easily make it to ASL standard Ro.24. Otherwise, gamers are poor.
But it's very natural. It goes without saying that the better you are, the more money you make.
Their earnings will be the basis of their salaries when redesigning the Proleague.
2. Realistic problems.
Now, most gamers are dating or married, and some gamers have children.
If they make Proleague again, they will have to live in the team's quarters.
I'm not sure if they'll ever be able to quit free streaming and start living as pro gamers.
3. Corporate (Sponsor) Issues.
This is the most important issue.
Proleague basically needs a lot of pro gaming teams.
In the past, many Korean companies created professional game teams.
KT , SKT , STX , CJ etc
Why they withdrew their investment.
Because of the match-fixing scandal.
Korean companies invested in the team considering the growth of viewers in their teens and twenties, who mostly watched Star League.
Think about it. When KT's teenage fans turn 20, they can use KT's mobile phone.
In addition, large corporations invested in the pure passion and symbolism of hard work of teenagers and 20s.
However, due to the match-fixing scandal, the pure image of Star League has been tainted.
This problem continued in the Star 2 league, and also in ASL (Sky did a match fix)
Overcoming these issues, I don't think the pro league will ever resurrect.
A common problem between Star 1 and Star 2, at least in Korea, was that there was no new blood.
But for Star 2, at least hope was made.
Percival, he's on the stage in StarCraft 2 as a new young blood.
However, Star 1 is a much more difficult and difficult game than Star 2.
I continue to be with the former Postiz members.
In my opinion, if they grow up well, I expect them to become Star 1 Percivals, but the support for them is very poor. This is the real problem.
Hopefully we'll see ProLeague Starcast Tv one day, for new players
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I'm a lot less worried now than 2 years ago.
@cruiser. Do u think the players would like to play in a pro league where no team houses are used? They couldhave a teamhouse for practice 8h a day like a normal job.
The practice wouldn't be as hardcore but the scene would live on, it could be a place for new talents to get a chance to play in competetive live games.
The ASTL could perhaps stabilise over time, some sponsors might grow fond of the idea of having a long term team. Signing up Flash, Bisu tto a company should still be good commercially. Not for teen products but I dunno. Maybe for Gilette =).
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We will never see the days of professional BW again but the amateur scene nowadays keeps us entertained enough, and it has a very relaxed atmosphere too.
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On June 22 2021 22:24 SirGlinG wrote:
I'm a lot less worried now than 2 years ago.
@cruiser. Do u think the players would like to play in a pro league where no team houses are used? They couldhave a teamhouse for practice 8h a day like a normal job.
The practice wouldn't be as hardcore but the scene would live on, it could be a place for new talents to get a chance to play in competetive live games.
The ASTL could perhaps stabilise over time, some sponsors might grow fond of the idea of having a long term team. Signing up Flash, Bisu tto a company should still be good commercially. Not for teen products but I dunno. Maybe for Gilette =).
SC1 will be successful if it is invested as much as League of Legends. lol
Especially the reason why StarCraft games are not going away.
Because there is no game that can replace it.
However, if this is to be realized, it cannot be achieved with the efforts of one or two people.
All businesses and media must work together.
The same goes for foreigners.
I think gamers will accept offers like yours if money is guaranteed. After all, money is the most important
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On June 23 2021 06:05 Cruiser0929 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2021 22:24 SirGlinG wrote:
I'm a lot less worried now than 2 years ago.
@cruiser. Do u think the players would like to play in a pro league where no team houses are used? They couldhave a teamhouse for practice 8h a day like a normal job.
The practice wouldn't be as hardcore but the scene would live on, it could be a place for new talents to get a chance to play in competetive live games.
The ASTL could perhaps stabilise over time, some sponsors might grow fond of the idea of having a long term team. Signing up Flash, Bisu tto a company should still be good commercially. Not for teen products but I dunno. Maybe for Gilette =).
SC1 will be successful if it is invested as much as League of Legends. lol Especially the reason why StarCraft games are not going away. Because there is no game that can replace it. However, if this is to be realized, it cannot be achieved with the efforts of one or two people. All businesses and media must work together. The same goes for foreigners. I think gamers will accept offers like yours if money is guaranteed. After all, money is the most important
this doesn't address the biggest issue, which is lack of new players. having a pro scene is great and brings in new players, but if you look at the numbers you can see the majority of people watching these tournaments don't actually play the game. hyperfocusing on the pro scene is still leaving the casual players behind.
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Proscene promotes the game to people.
Korean teenagers no longer know about StarCraft.
When StarCraft is exposed to the media, it gets fans and players.
Also, young players try to become pros.
In the past, many young players wanted to become pros because Starcraft was fun. Now, young players want to earn a lot of money through games.
An overly pro-scene focus will lead to new "young" players.
Why Most People Who Watch Tournaments Don't Play
Their age should be taken into account.
Currently, the main audience watching the tournament is in their A few are in their 20s and many are in their 30s to 50s.
In Korean society, people in their late 30s to 50s live a very fierce life.
There is very little time to play.
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Cruiser, you mentioned two things that are absolutely primordial in the grand scheme of things:
1. Young people that want to become professional gamers/streamers nowadays expect to make way more money than a regular boring 9-5 job. That's the allure of the medium so to speak. SC can't provide that in the current climate.
2. A huge chunk of the current SC1 playerbase and people that follow tournaments and so on are 30+, where dedicated time to play is reduced to weekends and short periods of time every now and then.
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On June 23 2021 18:58 Cruiser0929 wrote:
Proscene promotes the game to people.
Korean teenagers no longer know about StarCraft.
When StarCraft is exposed to the media, it gets fans and players.
Also, young players try to become pros.
In the past, many young players wanted to become pros because Starcraft was fun. Now, young players want to earn a lot of money through games.
An overly pro-scene focus will lead to new "young" players.
Why Most People Who Watch Tournaments Don't Play
Their age should be taken into account.
Currently, the main audience watching the tournament is in their A few are in their 20s and many are in their 30s to 50s.
In Korean society, people in their late 30s to 50s live a very fierce life.
There is very little time to play.
I know that KartRider still has professional teams and leagues sponsored by big companies in Korea, and KartRider's PC ranking in Korea is far lower than that of BW. Is this also because of the Savior(IPXzerg) ？
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And the feeling is that now they play more SC, in recent months the starcraft in Gametrics had 2% - 2.3%, while in recent weeks it has risen to 3%
http://www.gametrics.com/
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On June 23 2021 19:29 masoka82 wrote:And the feeling is that now they play more SC, in recent months the starcraft in Gametrics had 2% - 2.3%, while in recent weeks it has risen to 3% http://www.gametrics.com/
If you guys took the time to actually read the detailed data you'd see that's a normal fluctuation and overall popularity is actually trending downward. Not just with SC, but PC bangs in general. More people are playing from home these days as well. PC bangs don't have this cult following people make it out as. Take the leaderboard statistics with a grain of salt.
Ultimately, I'd say keep track of KR server's online user list at the server selection screen. That's the best way to see how things are. I think it's also worth mentioning that when Fish was facing closure the peak online player count on any given day was usually around ~30K, which it is still at. I'd say the game popularity has stagnated at best, and at worst slowly decreasing.
Even in KR new players say the game (and ladder) are intimidating. Again, this was also the case with Fish.
(edited for grammar, sorry)
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On June 23 2021 19:24 ChosimZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2021 18:58 Cruiser0929 wrote:
Proscene promotes the game to people.
Korean teenagers no longer know about StarCraft.
When StarCraft is exposed to the media, it gets fans and players.
Also, young players try to become pros.
In the past, many young players wanted to become pros because Starcraft was fun. Now, young players want to earn a lot of money through games.
An overly pro-scene focus will lead to new "young" players.
Why Most People Who Watch Tournaments Don't Play
Their age should be taken into account.
Currently, the main audience watching the tournament is in their A few are in their 20s and many are in their 30s to 50s.
In Korean society, people in their late 30s to 50s live a very fierce life.
There is very little time to play. I know that KartRider still has professional teams and leagues sponsored by big companies in Korea, and KartRider's PC ranking in Korea is far lower than that of BW. Is this also because of the Savior(IPXzerg) ？
yes
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On June 23 2021 22:46 lost dedicated wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2021 19:29 masoka82 wrote:And the feeling is that now they play more SC, in recent months the starcraft in Gametrics had 2% - 2.3%, while in recent weeks it has risen to 3% http://www.gametrics.com/ If you guys took the time to actually read the detailed data you'd see that's a normal fluctuation and overall popularity is actually trending downward. Not just with SC, but PC bangs in general. More people are playing from home these days as well. PC bangs don't have this cult following people make it out as. Take the leaderboard statistics with a grain of salt. Ultimately, I'd say keep track of KR server's online user list at the server selection screen. That's the best way to see how things are. I think it's also worth mentioning that when Fish was facing closure the peak online player count on any given day was usually around ~30K, which it is still at. I'd say the game popularity has stagnated at best, and at worst slowly decreasing. Even in KR new players say the game (and ladder) are intimidating. Again, this was also the case with Fish. (edited for grammar, sorry)
In Korea, recently, streamers on various platforms are starting Starcraft.
LOL streamer, chat streamer, health streamer, etc.
In Korea, an unprecedented StarCraft boom is taking place.
Not all of the viewers who follow those big streamers will play Starcraft, but I think it's a very successful case if even a few people are interested in Starcraft.
We have to admit, League of Legends is a more fun game than Starcraft. Looking back, But, the reason was proportional to the company's passion. Consider Riot's dedication to League of Legends. But Blizzard lost its enthusiasm.
In Korea, games are sometimes like girlfriends.
No one plays two games equally at the same time.
It's true that if League of Legends is more fun, then Starcraft's popularity will decrease.
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EPT
