Warp Pylon -> when Pylon starts to change figure, Attack with Probe and then cancel.
You canceled the Pylon, but you have the image of Pylon as you selected in the middle still. Once the opponent start making something, you can click the portrait or ctrl+c to center that unit of your screen.
On September 30 2019 18:00 Liquid`Drone wrote: rofl this is hilarious.
bovien, watch it from 1:25 to 1:45 and pay close attention
to be fair scan's instruction at "Attack with Probe" is not 100% clear.
press A and hover over the pylon with your cursor. as the pylon forms press left mouse click twice quickly. do this correctly the pylon will appear on the stat screen but not actually be selected. press escape right before it finished forming.
My theory is that you see the building or unit the opponent starts building after the cancellation. the scv being damaged is basically just the scv being in production. (I don't know this for sure, but it sorta makes sense and works with the timing.)
I think the damaged SCV could either be grapgical bug because of the unintended behavior of the portrait exploit or judging by the camera this how the game treats a building unit internally like a building who starts with it's wireframe "damaged" untill it's done.
I don't think it will be banned muta stacking is dubious asf if you try to say if it is a bug or a feature, and like as Brood War goes every new bug people try to find advantage has counterplay.
And the math for the sacrificed minerals and if it is worth not scounting rushes at your door is not done.
On September 30 2019 18:41 razorsuKe wrote: whoa have you guys tried this in offline single player? it crashed the game for me
u crash if you click the portrait of the non-existent pylon/building. you need to wait for your opponent to select something.
LOL so if your opponent has a feeling that you're up to some tricks, he can delay building something during the time that he expects you to cancel a pylon and then if he's correct, your game will crash giving him an auto win? :D
On September 30 2019 18:55 Starecat wrote: I don't think it will be banned muta stacking is dubious asf if you try to say if it is a bug or a feature, and like as Brood War goes every new bug people try to find advantage has counterplay.
And the math for the sacrificed minerals and if it is worth not scounting rushes at your door is not done.
quite the opportunity cost of having to build and cancel a pylon, getting a probe on standby for a couple of seconds to perform it plus another couple more seconds of idling at minimum just to see your opponent selected units/buildings.
the information you get has to be super crucial to make up for economic dmg. best use in PvP maybe? do it at a certain timing to ascertain his tech in a pinch and you can see your opponent building DTs etc. very niche use imo, the user needs to know what his doing.
I haven't really tested what it is you can see from this. Is it just building units, or can you see what building the opponent is building?
IF you can see when the pool is starting for example, you can time this to scout for a 9pool and then 12 nex after not seeing one. That would be big in pvz. (would be hilarious if that became a 'new meta' and zergs started 8pooling to fuck with it lol.)
Nowadays, if a new thing is discovered, people are afraid of it and ban it. I hope it won't be the case this time. Let the game grow, don't restrain it.
On September 30 2019 19:44 Bonyth wrote: Nowadays, if a new thing is discovered, people are afraid of it and ban it. I hope it won't be the case this time. Let the game grow, don't restrain it.
if isee you using that shit in moscow u not coming back to poland
Speaking of that, did you guys see a trick to check if multiple lurkers are burrowed in same place?
Just turn on the unit portrain, when you then box select the lurkers, if there are more than one, you will see portraint changing with "whie noise" between, meaining it's 2+ lurkers.
On September 30 2019 18:55 Starecat wrote: I don't think it will be banned muta stacking is dubious asf if you try to say if it is a bug or a feature, and like as Brood War goes every new bug people try to find advantage has counterplay.
And the math for the sacrificed minerals and if it is worth not scounting rushes at your door is not done.
quite the opportunity cost of having to build and cancel a pylon, getting a probe on standby for a couple of seconds to perform it plus another couple more seconds of idling at minimum just to see your opponent selected units/buildings.
the information you get has to be super crucial to make up for economic dmg. best use in PvP maybe? do it at a certain timing to ascertain his tech in a pinch and you can see your opponent building DTs etc. very niche use imo, the user needs to know what his doing.
As is tradition with all new protoss tricks, it looks super awesome at first but then when it comes to implementing it into game play, it falls short.
On September 30 2019 18:27 Starecat wrote: I think the damaged SCV could either be grapgical bug because of the unintended behavior of the portrait exploit or judging by the camera this how the game treats a building unit internally like a building who starts with it's wireframe "damaged" untill it's done.
It's not a damaged SCV. It's the one "TRAINING" SCV from the command center
On September 30 2019 20:56 Espers wrote: would be useful for island maps at least
YES!! However, I don't think it will really change anything unless opponent was random - then you could determine race and adjust your build accordingly. Otherwise it kinda just saves you a bit of scouting time
On September 30 2019 20:56 Espers wrote: would be useful for island maps at least
YES!! However, I don't think it will really change anything unless opponent was random - then you could determine race and adjust your build accordingly. Otherwise it kinda just saves you a bit of scouting time
For islands it is massive, and protoss really didn't need a boost there. 4 zeal drop is a viable opening if you know opponent's starting location, not otherwise. Sair openings likewise let you scout and adjust to your opponent if you scout the right place first - not necessarily if the third spot.
There's a strong reason to patch this bug out, which is that it will crash the game under certain circumstances. Even then, I also highly doubt being able to know the opponent's base this way is reasonable, so it will be removed completely instead of just fixing the crash.
Do you really believe Blizzard team currently has this much power? They are afraid of improving network system because it could break some other stuff, this is probably an even bigger issue.
Lmao I'm constantly amazed by the number of new bugs you can still find in this 20 year old game. Guessing Blizzard will have to patch this out soon. Meanwhile Terran players are fucked even in 4 player maps.
I watched this bug from FireBatHero's stream yesterday. I was mesmerized by this pylon bug! :O I don't think this pylon maphack bug should be allowed even in normal melee games because that's not how the game was supposed to be designed.
On September 30 2019 18:55 Starecat wrote: I don't think it will be banned muta stacking is dubious asf if you try to say if it is a bug or a feature, and like as Brood War goes every new bug people try to find advantage has counterplay.
And the math for the sacrificed minerals and if it is worth not scounting rushes at your door is not done.
Dude this gives Protoss a HUGE advantage, 25 minerals is nothing if you can know where your opponent is instantly on 4 player maps. Protoss can now deny a Zerg hatch first every single time, probe harass Terran and proxy gates etc.
dante no, because you have to build a pylon and cancel the pylon, and it has to be the second pylon obviously. you can't build a pylon, build another pylon, cancel that pylon when it's done, then scout the zerg and deny their hatchery. For a scout to be early enough to be of significance, you'd have to screw up your own build order to the point where any advantage you get is removed.
On islands this is totally broken. But even as a random player, I will be happy if protosses try to scout me doing this instead of actually scouting.
Probably not worth it in 2 player / 3 player maps, but I can see it being very worth it on 4 player, vs Random, and island maps, especially if you can time it to see what the Zerg build is.
is it useful it against random? you can't use it to decide whether to place the first pylon at your natural or not, which is the only problematic thing for PvR afaik
As a random player I will be very very happy if people use this to scout me instead of use a probe tbh.
I was worried for a sec if it was possible to scout pool timings with this, because then you could use this to go for a safe 12 nex. But it seems like that is not the case. I think it has virtually 0 real utility on a land map, at least pvz.
Amazing! This is the game that keeps on giving. :D Looks like you only get information about starting position, and nothing else, so seems most potentially useful on 4 player or island maps (although you can still get lucky with a pylon scout, which you'd want to do anyway if you *really* wanted to sniff out your opponent ASAP, e.g., vs. a known cheeser).
Also agree this will likely not be worth it vs. random, since the main thing I want to know is if the opponent is z or p/t, so I can decide whether to forward pylon (for FFE/GE) or not, and you have to make at least 1 pylon before this.
Related: curious where the last two (or more?) "hacks"/bugs for Protoss have fallen on ladder/competitive play: IIRC there was a splash at the time about the total recall bug and the half-priced archons trick, but I haven't really seen them explicitly banned or even attempted in competitive play? Probably a combo of opportunity cost + required skill + unwritten community norms. I expect the same thing to happen to this bug, meaning a patch really isn't necessary.
ya but then if the z happens to build a drone at that point he ends up tricking himself into not cannoning and dying. And he has to wait for the duration of a larva turning into an egg, and that egg turning into a hydra, without doing anything at all while waiting for that.
There might be some timings that are really really crisp with certain players that always adhere to a particular build and always build the same units at the same seconds. Then you have to time a pylon exactly the pylon build time before they start morphing an egg with that timing, then wait for ~15 seconds with 0 actions, and then hope you got something out of it.
On September 30 2019 22:56 Liquid`Drone wrote: dante no, because you have to build a pylon and cancel the pylon, and it has to be the second pylon obviously. you can't build a pylon, build another pylon, cancel that pylon when it's done, then scout the zerg and deny their hatchery. For a scout to be early enough to be of significance, you'd have to screw up your own build order to the point where any advantage you get is removed.
On islands this is totally broken. But even as a random player, I will be happy if protosses try to scout me doing this instead of actually scouting.
Maybe not to block hatch first then, but something like proxy gate would definitely be doable. I could see something like Pylon, Gateway, Pylon (cancel) and you'll know where T is before your gateway finishes.
On September 30 2019 18:55 Starecat wrote: I don't think it will be banned muta stacking is dubious asf if you try to say if it is a bug or a feature, and like as Brood War goes every new bug people try to find advantage has counterplay.
And the math for the sacrificed minerals and if it is worth not scounting rushes at your door is not done.
Muta stacking isn’t even a bug, it’s just selecting units with one of them outside of the magic box. It’s part of the point move vs formation move mechanics.
Interesting, I hope it doesn get banned or fixed immediately, I'm curious to what could the repercussions be. This bug has drawbacks, early game pvt having to invest 100 in extra pylon until you are able to get your 75mins back from canceling means that it will come at the cost of a later gate for gate first builds but for nexus first build if you can confirm cross position you would actually save minerals if you do not send a scouting probe but maybe terran could have an answer to that since if it becomes standard protoss gates wont be up as early as they would normally be on a normal gate first (where is flash when you need him). Someone above mentioned using it in the mid game but the drawback of doing nothing until you get a tell feels too massive to use unless we are talking about someone trying to snipe another pro using timings analyzed from previous replays.
It seems that FBH's most recent video has some more color on this bug. The "StarBugMaster" says you can actually do the same trick with Terran or Zerg. The mechanism seems to be to destroy a building 1) that's "transitioning" 2) being attacked 3) while clicking it. Then the clicked unit dies but somehow you are still selecting it, and it becomes the next unit created in the game, even an opponent's. So you can do this with a creep colony that dies exactly when it's about to turn into a sunken colony. I don't know what the equivalent would be for a Terran unit. This method isn't useful for Zerg because it's too expensive, and by the time you make a sunken you probably know where the opponent is anyway.
On September 30 2019 18:55 Starecat wrote: I don't think it will be banned muta stacking is dubious asf if you try to say if it is a bug or a feature, and like as Brood War goes every new bug people try to find advantage has counterplay.
And the math for the sacrificed minerals and if it is worth not scounting rushes at your door is not done.
quite the opportunity cost of having to build and cancel a pylon, getting a probe on standby for a couple of seconds to perform it plus another couple more seconds of idling at minimum just to see your opponent selected units/buildings.
the information you get has to be super crucial to make up for economic dmg. best use in PvP maybe? do it at a certain timing to ascertain his tech in a pinch and you can see your opponent building DTs etc. very niche use imo, the user needs to know what his doing.
As is tradition with all new protoss tricks, it looks super awesome at first but then when it comes to implementing it into game play, it falls short.
For real. I remember when total recall what supposed to break TvP. It’s not even a thing anyone thinks about anymore.
people that think this is a ''bug'' that would be used in games/ladder tournament for real check yourself this 'bug'' will be fixed because it has properties of maphack.
On September 30 2019 22:56 Liquid`Drone wrote: dante no, because you have to build a pylon and cancel the pylon, and it has to be the second pylon obviously. you can't build a pylon, build another pylon, cancel that pylon when it's done, then scout the zerg and deny their hatchery. For a scout to be early enough to be of significance, you'd have to screw up your own build order to the point where any advantage you get is removed.
On islands this is totally broken. But even as a random player, I will be happy if protosses try to scout me doing this instead of actually scouting.
Maybe not to block hatch first then, but something like proxy gate would definitely be doable. I could see something like Pylon, Gateway, Pylon (cancel) and you'll know where T is before your gateway finishes.
so? there is no need to know where the T is before your gate finishes if you proxy gate. You only need to know by the time the zealot finishes and by that time you will have scouted 2 locations and know already anyway
This is really cool and interesting. You guys need to chill though. All I see here are premature calls for patching much like total recall and other bugs in the past, not taking into account the fact that if they even tried, they'll like mess up the game lol.
On September 30 2019 22:56 Liquid`Drone wrote: dante no, because you have to build a pylon and cancel the pylon, and it has to be the second pylon obviously. you can't build a pylon, build another pylon, cancel that pylon when it's done, then scout the zerg and deny their hatchery. For a scout to be early enough to be of significance, you'd have to screw up your own build order to the point where any advantage you get is removed.
On islands this is totally broken. But even as a random player, I will be happy if protosses try to scout me doing this instead of actually scouting.
Maybe not to block hatch first then, but something like proxy gate would definitely be doable. I could see something like Pylon, Gateway, Pylon (cancel) and you'll know where T is before your gateway finishes.
so? there is no need to know where the T is before your gate finishes if you proxy gate. You only need to know by the time the zealot finishes and by that time you will have scouted 2 locations and know already anyway
Funny if they're proxying you as well, u just get sent on the minimap just right next to your proxy gateways.
On October 01 2019 05:11 SirGlinG wrote: proxy in you natural no scout ladder massacre.
This has to be removed right? Has any pro players talked about it on stream? You thoughts on it Scan?
proxy in your natural how? if he needs to make a pylon first to find out where you are, then his probe will arrive in your natural for a proxy by the time you already have more than enough units to stop it.
On October 01 2019 05:11 SirGlinG wrote: proxy in you natural no scout ladder massacre.
This has to be removed right? Has any pro players talked about it on stream? You thoughts on it Scan?
proxy in your natural how? if he needs to make a pylon first to find out where you are, then his probe will arrive in your natural for a proxy by the time you already have more than enough units to stop it.
Cut probes, send probe towards middle of map on 6, pylon 6, 8 pylon in their base, forge in their base, cannon.
"One race gets to know where the oppo is without scouting if they want to".... stupid.
Can't believe people are actually arguing to leave this in if it could be patched out. Even if the advantage is restricted to certain situations and limited due to the early investment, the nature of this bug is just so different from other movement-bugs etc., it's mingling with s.th. that should be equal for all.
If ladder wasn't a more serious thing like trying to qualify for bsl it wouldn't be an issue but it makes a difference. It's not like Iccup where you report these kinds of games and you can get points back after an admin reviews.
On October 01 2019 06:35 Highgamer wrote: "One race gets to know where the oppo is without scouting if they want to".... stupid.
Can't believe people are actually arguing to leave this in if it could be patched out. Even if the advantage is restricted to certain situations and limited due to the early investment, the nature of this bug is just so different from other movement-bugs etc., it's mingling with s.th. that should be equal for all.
An alternative fix is the SC2 way where 4player or greater maps let all opponents know where the other is. I'm open to hearing support for this, but my initial stance is dismissive. I think ultimately the bug causes to many questions and issues including crashing the game.
On October 01 2019 06:35 Highgamer wrote: "One race gets to know where the oppo is without scouting if they want to".... stupid.
Can't believe people are actually arguing to leave this in if it could be patched out. Even if the advantage is restricted to certain situations and limited due to the early investment, the nature of this bug is just so different from other movement-bugs etc., it's mingling with s.th. that should be equal for all.
I don't think it should be allowed either but it will still be interesting to see how it will affect meta so there's that. I'd be really interested in hearing what the pros say about this.
14:08 FBH and StarBugMaster showing a variant of this bug through creep/sunken colony. so its not just protoss :D whole video is full of (some known some not) bugs cool to watch
On September 30 2019 18:55 Starecat wrote: I don't think it will be banned muta stacking is dubious asf if you try to say if it is a bug or a feature, and like as Brood War goes every new bug people try to find advantage has counterplay.
And the math for the sacrificed minerals and if it is worth not scounting rushes at your door is not done.
quite the opportunity cost of having to build and cancel a pylon, getting a probe on standby for a couple of seconds to perform it plus another couple more seconds of idling at minimum just to see your opponent selected units/buildings.
the information you get has to be super crucial to make up for economic dmg. best use in PvP maybe? do it at a certain timing to ascertain his tech in a pinch and you can see your opponent building DTs etc. very niche use imo, the user needs to know what his doing.
As is tradition with all new protoss tricks, it looks super awesome at first but then when it comes to implementing it into game play, it falls short.
For real. I remember when total recall what supposed to break TvP. It’s not even a thing anyone thinks about anymore.
Step 1: use this glitch to scout their location Step 2: Half price archons to make 400 supply worth of archons Step 3: TOTAL RECALL
Seriously though, I love how people keep finding these weird glitches and it's ALWAYS Protoss lol. It seems like Blizzard really cut corners when they were testing Protoss.
On September 30 2019 18:55 Starecat wrote: I don't think it will be banned muta stacking is dubious asf if you try to say if it is a bug or a feature, and like as Brood War goes every new bug people try to find advantage has counterplay.
And the math for the sacrificed minerals and if it is worth not scounting rushes at your door is not done.
quite the opportunity cost of having to build and cancel a pylon, getting a probe on standby for a couple of seconds to perform it plus another couple more seconds of idling at minimum just to see your opponent selected units/buildings.
the information you get has to be super crucial to make up for economic dmg. best use in PvP maybe? do it at a certain timing to ascertain his tech in a pinch and you can see your opponent building DTs etc. very niche use imo, the user needs to know what his doing.
As is tradition with all new protoss tricks, it looks super awesome at first but then when it comes to implementing it into game play, it falls short.
For real. I remember when total recall what supposed to break TvP. It’s not even a thing anyone thinks about anymore.
Step 1: use this glitch to scout their location Step 2: Half price archons to make 400 supply worth of archons Step 3: TOTAL RECALL
Seriously though, I love how people keep finding these weird glitches and it's ALWAYS Protoss lol. It seems like Blizzard really cut corners when they were testing Protoss.
On October 01 2019 10:37 ggsimida wrote: https://youtu.be/z2FxJ23YOuo? 14:08 FBH and StarBugMaster showing a variant of this bug through creep/sunken colony. so its not just protoss :D whole video is full of (some known some not) bugs cool to watch
Does it have to be killed, or can you just cancel the sunken? If works with a cancel, I think you could do a 4-pool rush without hurting the timing too much, and then you hit the right spot every time. That's pretty deadly, and extremely annoying for ladder.
Does it have to be killed, or can you just cancel the sunken? If works with a cancel, I think you could do a 4-pool rush without hurting the timing too much, and then you hit the right spot every time. That's pretty deadly, and extremely annoying for ladder.
far harder to do reliably with the classic method, the "transitory building animation" for terran/zerg buildings is pretty short compared to protoss. using yamato or any high dmg cumulative attacks/ability on the building is basically letting the game press escape for you during the animation.
On September 30 2019 19:34 Liquid`Drone wrote: I haven't really tested what it is you can see from this. Is it just building units, or can you see what building the opponent is building?
IF you can see when the pool is starting for example, you can time this to scout for a 9pool and then 12 nex after not seeing one. That would be big in pvz. (would be hilarious if that became a 'new meta' and zergs started 8pooling to fuck with it lol.)
I am pretty sure it just links to whatever is the newest unit in the linked list of all units. So it could be any unit, including buildings, spawning Larvae, Interceptors, Scarabs, laid Mines, Halucinations, Drones recreated after cancelling an Extractor, surplus Lings or Scourge after they hatch, things unloading from drops probably too. EDIT: Even other wise unselectable units, such as Dark Swarm, Dweb or Scanner Sweep, it seems…
Opportunity cost is hardly higher than that of sending a proper scout. I think this definitely falls under the category of things to be banned and, ideally, patched. It's like a soft map hack.
On October 01 2019 10:37 ggsimida wrote: https://youtu.be/z2FxJ23YOuo? 14:08 FBH and StarBugMaster showing a variant of this bug through creep/sunken colony. so its not just protoss :D whole video is full of (some known some not) bugs cool to watch
Does it have to be killed, or can you just cancel the sunken? If works with a cancel, I think you could do a 4-pool rush without hurting the timing too much, and then you hit the right spot every time. That's pretty deadly, and extremely annoying for ladder.
Zerg buildings turn back into Drones, or their respective precursor buildings, or Geysers in case of Extractors, which occupy the same list address. So it should not work with a cancel. You should be able to use an egg cancel though (downside: you lose 1 larva, upside: only 50 upfront investment for Lings/Drone morph with full refund).
I think it will get patched because it can crash the game, but I wouldn’t mind had it stayed in. Especially since all three races can do it. I just don’t think it would have been that powerful considering you have to do it early enough to be useful but it’s also at a time when you’re minerals are most precious. Maybe some really trick cheeses could have evolved around it.
Has anyone been able to replicate it with a zerg egg? I can't get the egg to show up on the stats screen without selecting it. Do you have to do it as it's about to hatch?
On October 01 2019 22:39 Badfan92 wrote: Has anyone been able to replicate it with a zerg egg? I can't get the egg to show up on the stats screen without selecting it. Do you have to do it as it's about to hatch?
so its anything that has a "transition animation" not just a building lol..
On October 01 2019 22:39 Badfan92 wrote: Has anyone been able to replicate it with a zerg egg? I can't get the egg to show up on the stats screen without selecting it. Do you have to do it as it's about to hatch?
On October 01 2019 22:39 Badfan92 wrote: Has anyone been able to replicate it with a zerg egg? I can't get the egg to show up on the stats screen without selecting it. Do you have to do it as it's about to hatch?
On October 01 2019 23:02 Freakling wrote: What do you use for Terran? Add-ons?
i used a turret as you can see from my post in the 5th page of this thread. just time the yamato to hit the turret as the "transition animation" plays out (when the turret converts from its construction stage to complete)
On October 01 2019 23:42 Piste wrote: How is this even possible :O I wonder what sort of bug in the code enables this.
(this is just my speculation, I might be entirely wrong)
when you do the attack-double click thing, it doesn't clear the UI when the object dies as the game still thinks you've got the probe clicked (perhaps there isn't code for handling the specific transitory state between the building creation and finishing). Under normal circumstances, this doesn't matter because we can just click to another unit, but when you click on the portrait/ctrl c, the stored pointer to the unit points to something different as the memory has been reused by another unit being added to the list of building units, eg, before, our production list might look like this:
[drone] [pylon] [drone]
then:
[drone] [ling] [drone]
we still have a pointer to the second element after our list has been relinked.
On October 01 2019 23:42 Piste wrote: How is this even possible :O I wonder what sort of bug in the code enables this.
Maybe there's a layer of the code dedicated to all the unit-selection stats and portraits of the game so with that fast click you only trigger/enter that layer of code without the code of actual unit selection so once activated you keep the access to that sublayer of code.
Or maybe it have something to do with a backdoor to the whole turn of the turn-rate due to p2p net code.
On October 01 2019 23:42 Piste wrote: How is this even possible :O I wonder what sort of bug in the code enables this.
The Broodwar Code was supposed to be made public as of 2019; This is the reason why Blizzard came out with remastered in the first place, by recreating a somewhat "new" game, to protect their intellectual property, and extend for another 20 years their copyright over the videogame, especially the code, thus insuring a consequential claim over possible massive Tournaments in the Korean scene. All this was done for money and intellectual protection. Videogames have a 20 year copyright claim, after that they become public domain.
So to answer your question, you will probably never find out for another 20 years.
On October 01 2019 23:42 Piste wrote: How is this even possible :O I wonder what sort of bug in the code enables this.
The Broodwar Code was supposed to be made public as of 2019; This is the reason why Blizzard came out with remastered in the first place, by recreating a somewhat "new" game, to protect their intellectual property, and extend for another 20 years their copyright over the videogame, especially the code, thus insuring a consequential claim over possible massive Tournaments in the Korean scene. All this was done for money and intellectual protection. Videogames have a 20 year copyright claim, after that they become public domain.
So to answer your question, you will probably never find out for another 20 years.
what
first of all, I don't even know where you got the 20 years copyright thing, but even after the copyright has expired there is absolutely no prerequisite to release the source code.
On October 01 2019 23:42 Piste wrote: How is this even possible :O I wonder what sort of bug in the code enables this.
The Broodwar Code was supposed to be made public as of 2019; This is the reason why Blizzard came out with remastered in the first place, by recreating a somewhat "new" game, to protect their intellectual property, and extend for another 20 years their copyright over the videogame, especially the code, thus insuring a consequential claim over possible massive Tournaments in the Korean scene. All this was done for money and intellectual protection. Videogames have a 20 year copyright claim, after that they become public domain.
So to answer your question, you will probably never find out for another 20 years.
You're wrong on so many levels about this it's appalling. The U.S. copyright system has never worked that way and it never will.
As long as Blizzard exists they will own the copyright to all their games in perpituity. If we go by the Berne Convention it would be 50 years beyond Blizzard ceasing to exist that StarCraft and their other properties could fall under the public domain, and even that isn't a guarantee by any stretch if another company buys the rights, which often happens.
On October 01 2019 23:42 Piste wrote: How is this even possible :O I wonder what sort of bug in the code enables this.
The Broodwar Code was supposed to be made public as of 2019; This is the reason why Blizzard came out with remastered in the first place, by recreating a somewhat "new" game, to protect their intellectual property, and extend for another 20 years their copyright over the videogame, especially the code, thus insuring a consequential claim over possible massive Tournaments in the Korean scene. All this was done for money and intellectual protection. Videogames have a 20 year copyright claim, after that they become public domain.
So to answer your question, you will probably never find out for another 20 years.
You're wrong on so many levels about this it's appalling. The U.S. copyright system has never worked that way and it never will.
As long as Blizzard exists they will own the copyright to all their games in perpituity. If we go by the Berne Convention it would be 50 years beyond Blizzard ceasing to exist that StarCraft and their other properties could fall under the public domain, and even that isn't a guarantee by any stretch if another company buys the rights, which often happens.
I think he's thinking of patents which are different than intellectual property, although they are intertwined in certain ways. In case anyone is curious here is a list of patents I found that Activision Blizzard owns.
This is so wild. BW just never ceases to suprise that people still figure out these kinds of things 20+ years down the line. Surely this must have happened by accident to discover...
On October 01 2019 23:42 Piste wrote: How is this even possible :O I wonder what sort of bug in the code enables this.
I think it is probably a variation of the UI refresh glitch (the same that let's you give illegal orders to units, such as the half price Archon glitch). The rest is just the same unit "slot" being occupied by different units.
On October 01 2019 23:42 Piste wrote: How is this even possible :O I wonder what sort of bug in the code enables this.
The Broodwar Code was supposed to be made public as of 2019; This is the reason why Blizzard came out with remastered in the first place, by recreating a somewhat "new" game, to protect their intellectual property, and extend for another 20 years their copyright over the videogame, especially the code, thus insuring a consequential claim over possible massive Tournaments in the Korean scene. All this was done for money and intellectual protection. Videogames have a 20 year copyright claim, after that they become public domain.
So to answer your question, you will probably never find out for another 20 years.
You could probably still use OpenBW as a code base to figure it out (not sure if it has all the UI functionality fully implemented though).
On October 02 2019 10:52 GGzerG wrote: Yea this should be patched obviously lol
was free archon patched? i do think it should be patched, though. i don't like that you could do it in ladder and beat some one on a 4 player map with some weird play and then they come onto tl and we have to explain to them this glitch and refer them to this thread ad nauseam.
Is this really that useful? Does building two pylons early and slowing your tech tree just to make sure you scout the right way make it worth it? I could be missing something here.
This bug goes against everything that made this game so unique, so perfect If it doesnt get patched, it will definately hurt this game a lot, and this at every level
On October 02 2019 13:09 TornadoSteve wrote: This bug goes against everything that made this game so unique, so perfect If it doesnt get patched, it will definately hurt this game a lot, and this at every level
i agree. lots of the funny bugs we find 15+ later in sc are cool but this one is very much not cool. in fact i don't even know how it was discovered how the hell would anyone.. but whatever. the archon/hallu bug proved to not be effective and was not patched though i don't think it will never come back into play. this, however, has big repercussions on people who want to maphack but can't afford to.
On October 01 2019 23:42 Piste wrote: How is this even possible :O I wonder what sort of bug in the code enables this.
I think it is probably a variation of the UI refresh glitch (the same that let's you give illegal orders to units, such as the half price Archon glitch). The rest is just the same unit "slot" being occupied by different units.
Not really *that* related, this is due to some code around cleaning up graphical elements when things are no longer selected that doesn't function properly when certain sprites animate (e.g. the flashing selection circle), whereas the selection desync stuff is because of how turns are processed/tricks that the UI plays to make things feel responsive. Both can result in dangling/stale data that makes the game do some weird things, but the path to getting there is pretty different.
I've actually been meaning to make a thread about this one since it got patched. We (ShieldBattery devs) discovered this while trying to track down why pylons sometimes became unpowered during games, but it was too easily exploitable so we didn't want to spread that knowledge more widely until we had a fix in place. I'll create that thread eventually
On October 02 2019 11:26 RowdierBob wrote: Is this really that useful? Does building two pylons early and slowing your tech tree just to make sure you scout the right way make it worth it? I could be missing something here.
It doesnt matter even if it is used.. Anyone who kills his pylon early on will be claimed cheater and banned from every competition. There is no need for patch imo. A patch will MOST LIKELY add some other bug or make the game different on some level that you will regret the patching.
Edit: Oh and also.. We now have screen-view on minimap to show where people are looking. Kinda obvious if it randomly jumps to a corner on a unit/building.
On October 02 2019 11:26 RowdierBob wrote: Is this really that useful? Does building two pylons early and slowing your tech tree just to make sure you scout the right way make it worth it? I could be missing something here.
It doesnt matter even if it is used.. Anyone who kills his pylon early on will be claimed cheater and banned from every competition. There is no need for patch imo. A patch will MOST LIKELY add some other bug or make the game different on some level that you will regret the patching.
Edit: Oh and also.. We now have screen-view on minimap to show where people are looking. Kinda obvious if it randomly jumps to a corner on a unit/building.
On October 02 2019 13:09 TornadoSteve wrote: This bug goes against everything that made this game so unique, so perfect If it doesnt get patched, it will definately hurt this game a lot, and this at every level
The issue is, we don't know what causes this bug. It you patch it out you could patch out a TON of other bugs. Imagine if it somehow broke unit stacking? You want to take that risk?
On October 02 2019 13:09 TornadoSteve wrote: This bug goes against everything that made this game so unique, so perfect If it doesnt get patched, it will definately hurt this game a lot, and this at every level
Exaggerating a bit sir? There are plenty of bugs in this game. Some are even banned from competitive gaming. This bug isnt game breaking by any means. If it makes games to crash it does however need to get fixed. Else people could make it a thing to crash games.
Just tried it and it's crazy! It can be worthy on 4 players map if you don't wanna go early scouting - 25 minerals is nothing because you can send your probe later and get back that money instantly.
On October 09 2019 06:38 Freakling wrote: Oh, come on, this is not some black magic. It's not even touching on game mechanics…
You have no idea what's causing the bug, if you patch out the cause of it it might break some of the now game mechanics that are actually bugs.
The bug is created because some of the garbage is not correctly cleared when refreshing the UI under certain very specific conditions. What else do you think would changing this influence?
On October 09 2019 06:33 Qikz wrote: Patching is a dangerous precedent as I mentioned before. If you patch this you risk breaking everything else.
Your mentality, if generally held, is much too cautious. Many bugs have been patched in the past with no negative repercussions. Sunken colony crash bug when it initially was updated to have 300 hp -- patched with no adverse effects. The "build hatchery, cancel, then kill drone crash" was fixed -- no adverse effects. The "no pylon required to build" bug was patched early August 2019 -- no adverse effects. Most people didn't even know about the no pylon required bug, let alone the patch.
On October 02 2019 11:26 RowdierBob wrote: Is this really that useful? Does building two pylons early and slowing your tech tree just to make sure you scout the right way make it worth it? I could be missing something here.
It doesnt matter even if it is used.. Anyone who kills his pylon early on will be claimed cheater and banned from every competition. There is no need for patch imo. A patch will MOST LIKELY add some other bug or make the game different on some level that you will regret the patching.
Edit: Oh and also.. We now have screen-view on minimap to show where people are looking. Kinda obvious if it randomly jumps to a corner on a unit/building.
It's definitely blatant enough for it to be easily monitored in competitive play. I would say if it's a factor in causing a crash, it would be worth trying to fix it.
On October 02 2019 11:26 RowdierBob wrote: Is this really that useful? Does building two pylons early and slowing your tech tree just to make sure you scout the right way make it worth it? I could be missing something here.
It doesnt matter even if it is used.. Anyone who kills his pylon early on will be claimed cheater and banned from every competition. There is no need for patch imo. A patch will MOST LIKELY add some other bug or make the game different on some level that you will regret the patching.
Edit: Oh and also.. We now have screen-view on minimap to show where people are looking. Kinda obvious if it randomly jumps to a corner on a unit/building.
It's definitely blatant enough for it to be easily monitored in competitive play. I would say if it's a factor in causing a crash, it would be worth trying to fix it.
This should be patched regardless of whether or not it factors into causing a crash, because it also affects the ladder. One race clearly has an unintended, unfair advantage, and it's easier to patch in a fix than it is to monitor and confirm or deny claims of cheating.
By fixing something like this, Blizzard doesn't have to ban anybody. I think not banning your players is better than initiating some witch-hunt for the remainder (if finite) of the game's life because of laziness or ineptitude.
I'm against patching because I don't think current team is capable of doing anything which consist from around 3 guys lol. Just look what they did with latest patch: if you switch old graphics on main menu you will see buttons not aligned properly and next go to campaign episode select screen where you will see they fucked up pretty bad, and many many more things...
On October 10 2019 02:19 outscar wrote: I'm against patching because I don't think current team is capable of doing anything which consist from around 3 guys lol. Just look what they did with latest patch: if you switch old graphics on main menu you will see buttons not aligned properly and next go to campaign episode select screen where you will see they fucked up pretty bad, and many many more things...
agreed. i don't think they would even bother to be honest.
On October 10 2019 08:41 Mirabel_ wrote: this reminds me of flag scouting (reveals the outlines of undiscovered buildings from the start of the game) which remains hardcoded in C&C Generals
remove anything janky enough to crash the game and leave anything else in
I think it would benefit us to see if anyone was doing this in past broadcasts of SCR
On October 10 2019 02:19 outscar wrote: I'm against patching because I don't think current team is capable of doing anything which consist from around 3 guys lol. Just look what they did with latest patch: if you switch old graphics on main menu you will see buttons not aligned properly and next go to campaign episode select screen where you will see they fucked up pretty bad, and many many more things...
I just so wish they would hand over development of SC:R to tec27 and 2pacalypse Grant / Matt etc. are nice guys, but they are incompetent, because they have no idea how the SC ecoysystem works. Community guys do a much better job of things, as evidenced by ShieldBattery/Iccup/Mcalauncher
On October 10 2019 02:19 outscar wrote: I'm against patching because I don't think current team is capable of doing anything which consist from around 3 guys lol. Just look what they did with latest patch: if you switch old graphics on main menu you will see buttons not aligned properly and next go to campaign episode select screen where you will see they fucked up pretty bad, and many many more things...
I just so wish they would hand over development of SC:R to tec27 and 2pacalypse Grant / Matt etc. are nice guys, but they are incompetent, because they have no idea how the SC ecoysystem works. Community guys do a much better job of things, as evidenced by ShieldBattery/Iccup/Mcalauncher
Just release source code and be done with it. Even without it community managed to make pre SC:R so many awesome programs and plugins, imagine what we could do if we had it. Look how awesome editor we have thanks so SuicidalInsanity. Meanwhile Blizz nerfing default StarEdit and 2+ years later no 2x2 ladder... Sad.
Still doesn’t fix the Protoss vs Random issues, but it’s a start.
I can see this maybe working at low elo PvP, going 8 pylon 9 pylon then figuring out your opponents location or it’s center gates. Getting to scout on 16 or something instead of after gateway has got to overcome the economic hiccup of canceling a pylon.