Hello, my question is as stated in the title, how far does the lurker actually burrow? This is something I have contemplated for quite some time. Me and some mates discussed this today and a few people thought for sure it was just 6 feet, but Zealots Psi-Blades would surely be able to undig the Lurkers if they were only buried 6 feet under ground, so naturally I am thinking more along the lines of Lurkers burrowing 20 Feet under ground.
Although the Lurkers Range is 6, so this would lead one to believe that the Lurker does burrow 6 Feet under ground when burrowed, although when you really look at the Spines that the Lurker shoots, it would lead one to believe that the Lurker could not be only 6 feet under ground, or it would be impossible to dodge the spines.
Simple Equation explaining Lurker burrowed depth & Range
wouldnt it be the same depth as other zerg units with the burrow ability? Despite lurker having a longer "digging" animation activated when burrowing, this doesnt indicate an actual deeper "depth" of a units burrow. I would say a lurker may burrow around 4-5 feet to accommodate its relatively large body and earth breaking spikes. A zergling in comparison probably only burrows 2 feet.
maybe the lurkers are not firing the spines. maybe they are darting to their target and then returning to where they "were." like a shark. so perhaps the question is how deep and wide is this tunnel
On March 18 2018 05:21 funnybananaman wrote: wouldnt it be the same depth as other zerg units with the burrow ability? Despite lurker having a longer "digging" animation activated when burrowing, this doesnt indicate an actual deeper "depth" of a units burrow. I would say a lurker may burrow around 4-5 feet to accommodate its relatively large body and earth breaking spikes. A zergling in comparison probably only burrows 2 feet.
Interesting point, I can understand where you are coming from although what about when you take into consideration Hydralisk range, would that affect the Lurkers burrow depth? And also, I completely agree with you on Zerglings only burrowing 2 feet, the other Zerg units burrow depth are actually represented in the equation, although the equation is self explanatory so that's obvious.
On March 18 2018 05:25 Alejandrisha wrote: maybe the lurkers are not firing the spines. maybe they are darting to their target and then returning to where they "were." like a shark. so perhaps the question is how deep and wide is this tunnel
Wow....I never even thought about it like that, so essentially you are saying the Lurker is firing itself and coming back to the burrow as if it was a boomerang? This makes complete sense, I think we are making some ground breaking discoveries with this thread, we will need to update the Lurker's Liquipedia info soon I think...
On March 18 2018 05:37 -NegativeZero- wrote: they're shallow enough that zealots can apparently stab them through the ground if they know where they are
WOW that is an amazing point, with detection Zealots can actually stab a Lurker while it is burrowed, the real question here may be not how deep the Lurker is burrowed but how exactly is the Zealot stabbing a Lurker that is burrowed so deep under ground? Does the Zealots Psi-Blades hit the ground and penetrate the surface to make Contact with the Lurker? Is it sending Psionic energy to damage the Lurker? How is this happening?
On March 18 2018 05:37 -NegativeZero- wrote: they're shallow enough that zealots can apparently stab them through the ground if they know where they are
WOW that is an amazing point, with detection Zealots can actually stab a Lurker while it is burrowed, the real question here may be not how deep the Lurker is burrowed but how exactly is the Zealot stabbing a Lurker that is burrowed so deep under ground? Does the Zealots Psi-Blades hit the ground and penetrate the surface to make Contact with the Lurker? Is it sending Psionic energy to damage the Lurker? How is this happening?
Zerglings can also hit so it can't have anything to do with the psi!
Can we all aggree to use metre instead of feet when having highly scientific discussions such as these?
To the main point, I think the Zealot has to actually penetrate the ground with the psiblade and hit the Lurker, if it were able to be sending some sort of psionic energy over a greater distance then it would make use of this ability more often and not be meelee!
On March 18 2018 06:36 ninazerg wrote: If melee units can hit a lurker, then obviously, they aren't that far down. Probably 1.5 meters.
1 Meter = 3.2 Feet 1.5 Meters would be approximately 4.92126 Feet, it is already well established that a Zergling only burrows 2 Feet below the ground being 0.6096 Meters, so please elaborate on how exactly the Lurker would be nearly 5 feet below the ground, making it 3 feet underneath a burrowed Zergling potentially.
Doesn't the equation make things quite obvious? This is an equation for a probability distribution representing the position of the lurker. Knowing Heisenberg's uncertainty principle it is clear that the lurker's position exists as a a waveform until observed (i.e the lurker is at all the depths at once, and the zealots are uncertain). However because of the Observer effect once an observer shows up the waveform collapses and the lurker now has a known position at a trivial depth and can be meleed once more.
On March 18 2018 05:25 Alejandrisha wrote: maybe the lurkers are not firing the spines. maybe they are darting to their target and then returning to where they "were." like a shark. so perhaps the question is how deep and wide is this tunnel
Wow....I never even thought about it like that, so essentially you are saying the Lurker is firing itself and coming back to the burrow as if it was a boomerang? This makes complete sense, I think we are making some ground breaking discoveries with this thread, we will need to update the Lurker's Liquipedia info soon I think...
i see what you did there. and yes. i think the lurker is strong enough seeing how it can even get in to the damn ground. it is the biggest burrowable unit. starcraft 2 ultra burrow is so stupid. like it will take 20 men two fortnights to fill that hole so smaller units don't fall in.
i think my theory is also more plausible because it explains the infinite spines debate that still rages over the hydralisk and lurker alike
after reviewing this thread and playing lurker defense for 20 years i have some points to consider:
-it is possible to have infinite lurkers burrow in the exact same place -being burrowed in the exact same place has no effect on s lurker's ability to shoot spine -if a lurker is killed after a spine animation commences, that attack deals additional damage
these points lead me to the following conclusions:
when lurkers burrow they know longer exist in the corporeal world. while burrowed they have no mass and therefore no resistance to their movement underground thus the lurker's ability to propel itself at a target and withdraw with no evidence of heat energy being wasted.
when a lurker is killed while its attack animation is in progress, this disrupts the ethereal/corporeal cycle the lurker experiences over its lifetime of burrowing and un-burrowing and the lurker detonates where the spines attack, not where the lurker "was." ergo it is quite obvious the lurker explodes when it is killed but explodes where the spines 'were' because that is where the lurker 'was.' and his ability to bend the laws of physics tricks our eye into seeing the death animation where the lurker 'was' burrowed to hide its true ability
On March 18 2018 06:05 Arvendilin wrote: Can we all aggree to use metre instead of feet when having highly scientific discussions such as these?
To the main point, I think the Zealot has to actually penetrate the ground with the psiblade and hit the Lurker, if it were able to be sending some sort of psionic energy over a greater distance then it would make use of this ability more often and not be meelee!
can we all also agree to use meter interchangeably with metre. I get you have the better system but metre? cmon. metre. just look at it. it's not a damn word. metre has the same clout as a word that dmitri does as a name. that's all.
On March 18 2018 08:04 Alejandrisha wrote: after reviewing this thread and playing lurker defense for 20 years i have some points to consider:
-it is possible to have infinite lurkers burrow in the exact same place -being burrowed in the exact same place has no effect on s lurker's ability to shoot spine -if a lurker is killed after a spine animation commences, that attack deals additional damage
these points lead me to the following conclusions:
when lurkers burrow they know longer exist in the corporeal world. while burrowed they have no mass and therefore no resistance to their movement underground thus the lurker's ability to propel itself at a target and withdraw with no evidence of heat energy being wasted.
when a lurker is killed while its attack animation is in progress, this disrupts the ethereal/corporeal cycle the lurker experiences over its lifetime of burrowing and un-burrowing and the lurker detonates where the spines attack, not where the lurker "was." ergo it is quite obvious the lurker explodes when it is killed but explodes where the spines 'were' because that is where the lurker 'was.' and his ability to bend the laws of physics tricks our eye into seeing the death animation where the lurker 'was' burrowed to hide its true ability
^^ Wow, we really are onto something, more mystery just unveiled in this thread as well, with the lurker falling to it's death....This only continues to stir things up and make these Lurker theories so much more complex.
This was such an obvious troll thread but the responses have been so perfect I've lost the line between trolling and seriousness xD. AtlasofMech would be proud
On March 18 2018 08:48 MinscandBoo wrote: This was such an obvious troll thread but the responses have been so perfect I've lost the line between trolling and seriousness xD. AtlasofMech would be proud
On March 18 2018 08:04 Alejandrisha wrote: after reviewing this thread and playing lurker defense for 20 years i have some points to consider:
-it is possible to have infinite lurkers burrow in the exact same place -being burrowed in the exact same place has no effect on s lurker's ability to shoot spine -if a lurker is killed after a spine animation commences, that attack deals additional damage
these points lead me to the following conclusions:
when lurkers burrow they know longer exist in the corporeal world. while burrowed they have no mass and therefore no resistance to their movement underground thus the lurker's ability to propel itself at a target and withdraw with no evidence of heat energy being wasted.
when a lurker is killed while its attack animation is in progress, this disrupts the ethereal/corporeal cycle the lurker experiences over its lifetime of burrowing and un-burrowing and the lurker detonates where the spines attack, not where the lurker "was." ergo it is quite obvious the lurker explodes when it is killed but explodes where the spines 'were' because that is where the lurker 'was.' and his ability to bend the laws of physics tricks our eye into seeing the death animation where the lurker 'was' burrowed to hide its true ability
^^ Wow, we really are onto something, more mystery just unveiled in this thread as well, with the lurker falling to it's death....This only continues to stir things up and make these Lurker theories so much more complex.
HOLY SHIT
so perhaps the ephemeral state of the burrowed lurker is akin to its status inside of an overlord. this unit is truly beyond the scope of forensics and corporeal evaluation. we must bring in the Vatican.
On March 18 2018 08:48 MinscandBoo wrote: This was such an obvious troll thread but the responses have been so perfect I've lost the line between trolling and seriousness xD. AtlasofMech would be proud
Well a hydralisk burrow depth is an intereting comparison because a lurker is just an evolved hydralisk. If we accept that a hydralisk burrows its entire body "height" and a lurker does the same, we can infer both units burrow just enough to cover their "head" and their claws/zerg arms and then they're completely hidden. So in broodwar specs the units would burrow the exact amount of matricies on the ground they dig as the height they reach into air space. The eyeballl test would suggest a hydralisk is taller then a lurker but a lurker is much wider and rounder then a hydralisk, making a hydralisk burrow area about 1x6 meters or feet, due to its slender body, with the 1st number being the width and the second being the depth of the burrowed hole. i would estimate a lurker in turn burrows in a 4x4 meter area due to its round body. An ultralisk would be an interesting unit of reference here too as its the largest zerg unit, but the only zerg unit that cant use the burrow ability possibly because it is too large. If an ultralisk could burrow it would probably take up an 8x8 area, or double the size of a lurker.
a sophisticated analysis must address the fact that we cannot know if the lurker that enters the ground is the same lurker that comes back out. once it disappears beneath the surface there may actually be nothing there at all, making any depth-related question moot. of course, this interpretation leads us back to how little we understand the phenomena of spines, as several of my colleagues have brought up so far
On March 18 2018 11:23 Uldridge wrote: Guys, you're way overthinking this: The lurker is simply doing this, the graphix simply don't allow for some better representation.
Infinite lurker stack you say? The subtle terrain builders, aka, lurkers, do this to confuse the terran: + Show Spoiler +
This is an adorable drawing of a lurker, almost makes me not want to kill them anymore. ....almost.
On March 18 2018 08:04 Alejandrisha wrote: after reviewing this thread and playing lurker defense for 20 years i have some points to consider:
-it is possible to have infinite lurkers burrow in the exact same place -being burrowed in the exact same place has no effect on s lurker's ability to shoot spine
Lurkers are in fact not able to burrow ontop of eachother (unlike siegetanks which can be stacked up and siege in the same place, but that'd need a whole nother thread).
Burrowing units, just like mining workers or air units, simply violate the Pauli exclusion principle this is what allows them to occupy the same space as the ground (if they'd actually dig themselves in, they'd leave all sorts of traces on the surface – the bit of blur you can see is probably just a manifestation of quantum uncertainty) as well as the same space as other units. This also explains how they can scour the ground all around them with big ass spines without completely annihilating the landscape. Overall the collision behaviour of all BW units suggests that they exist in some exotic bosonic state where they only interact via minor repulsive forces, possibly some kind of electromagnetic field, which some units can toggle on and off at will. This state does seem to be unstable though, such that it can be interrupted easily from outside sources. This would be the mechanism be which weapons and spells work in the StarCraft universe. There is also an attraction to strong localized nodes of negative field potential which can pull in units, sending them or them on erratic paths around the map, or even trap them, forming inescapable vortices.
The lurker burrows deep enough to not be seen without detection. Even cloaked units can be seen but not detected. On the other hand, a mine can hit a burrowed lurker, but the mine UNBURROWS to hit it. Inconsistencies will be found.
I think this thread proves that the Lurker simply is and it is not, The Lurker defies all laws of Physics and quantum superpositions, as followed
The numbers that describe the amplitudes for different possibilities define the kinematics, the space of different states. The dynamics describes how these numbers change with time. For a particle that can be in any one of infinitely many discrete positions, a particle on a lattice, the superposition principle tells you how to make a state:
For a particle described by probability theory random walking on a line, the analogous thing is the list of probabilities, which give the probability of any position. The quantities that describe how they change in time are the transition probabilities, which gives the probability that, starting at x, the particle ends up at y time t later. The total probability of ending up at y is given by the sum over all the possibilities
So that the infinite list of amplitudes
completely describes the quantum state of the particle. This list is called the state vector, and formally it is an element of a Hilbert space, an infinite-dimensional complex vector space. It is usual to represent the state so that the sum of the absolute squares of the amplitudes is one:
Since I didn't recognise your equation after 2 seconds I was curious to find whether your equation in the OP has an original source or application outside of this context, so I did a reverse image search on it:
On March 19 2018 15:37 JieXian wrote: Since I didn't recognise your equation after 2 seconds I was curious to find whether your equation in the OP has an original source or application outside of this context, so I did a reverse image search on it:
What I really wanna know is how the Lurker can be targeted by psyonic storms when they are burrowed. It seems to me they arent really burrowed at all because of this, but rather laying flat on the ground.
On March 20 2018 06:17 SJ158 wrote: What I really wanna know is how the Lurker can be targeted by psyonic storms when they are burrowed. It seems to me they arent really burrowed at all because of this, but rather laying flat on the ground.
Zerg "burrowing" is simply 3dimensional folding until a circle remains.
On March 20 2018 06:17 SJ158 wrote: What I really wanna know is how the Lurker can be targeted by psyonic storms when they are burrowed. It seems to me they arent really burrowed at all because of this, but rather laying flat on the ground.
Zerg "burrowing" is simply 3dimensional folding until a circle remains.
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