• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:57
CEST 03:57
KST 10:57
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 20252Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202576RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18
Community News
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced17BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 What tournaments are world championships? Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 2025 I offer completely free coaching services
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced $5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025 WardiTV Mondays FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced BW General Discussion Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Dewalt's Show Matches in China
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers [G] Mineral Boosting Does 1 second matter in StarCraft?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
UK Politics Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 618 users

[ASL4] Finals Preview- Flash in the Pan?

Forum Index > BW General
54 CommentsPost a Reply
Normal

[ASL4] Finals Preview- Flash in the Pan?

Text byBigFan
Graphics byshiroiusagi
November 10th, 2017 23:16 GMT
logo
We've hit the finals at last! Prior to this, we were treated to some pretty cool series. The first semifinals was between Larva and hero. Many hoped that Larva can beat hero, who's been playing amazing ZvZ recently. Alas, Larva McGregor could not do what was hoped and fell short in the fifth game. The second semifinals was a showdown between Flash and Bisu, one of the most hyped series this ASL. Once again, many hoped that Bisu can defeat Flash and show that he's mortal. It was meant to be an epic series and that it was, if not for some mistakes that Bisu made. In the end, Flash won 3-1 to advance to the finals! If you would like more details, please read the recaps below.

Bisu ended up playing Larva in the third place match this past Tuesday and won the series, 3-1 with quite the stellar final game on Gladiator. This might be Bisu's last series before he joins the army so, make sure to watch it! The finals will take place this upcoming Sunday and should be a treat regardless of hero's ZvT form. Will hero be the one to break Flash's streak or will Flash claim his third ASL and grab the golden balloon? Read FlaShFTW and Ty2's preview of the finals then make sure to tune in to see hero bring it home!

Table of contents

  • Intro
  •  
  • Larva vs hero Recap
  • Bisu vs Flash Recap
  •  
  • Flash vs hero Preview
  •  
  • (Wiki)Liquipedia
Group A Recap

Back and Forth Action

Game 1: Gold Rush
Larva spawned at 12 in brown while hero spawned at 5 in purple. Larva sent his overlord in the wrong direction while hero sent his in the right direction while larva sent a drone clockwise through the minerals at 9 to hero's main. It was a strange choice because when he made it he did not, as far as I can tell, have any scouting information on where hero might be. I've rewatched it and he made the decision at 1:00, sending out just one drone and immediately sending it towards hero. It is possible that his overlord would have run into hero's overlord if hero was at 9, and if hero sent his overlord to 12 from 9, but the proxy hatch wouldn't work in that situation. As far as I can tell it was a complete hail Mary, unless there is some "9 always scouts towards 12" ZvZ meta on Gold Rush that I'm unaware of.

Larva used the extractor trick for a 10th drone and opted for a 10 hatch inside hero's main. This would be a near instawin against any 1 hat lair builds because those can only survive long enough to get mutalisks by using concaves at the top of the ramp vs 2 hat ling builds. However, it wouldn't do very well vs 2 hat ling openers which would have comparable ling numbers and also the advantage of interior lines. Larva would be able to produce two one hatchery zergling forces while hero would be able to produce one two hatchery zergling force. Theoretically comparable numbers but hero had the ability to divide his forces as he saw fit whereas Larva couldn't move zerglings from one army to another.

Larva followed his 10 hatchery with a 9 pool 9 extractor before overlord while hero went for 12 pool, 12 extractor, 11 hatch at natural. hero's pool was slightly faster but Larva's second hatchery was a good 30 seconds ahead of hero, giving him the ability to produce a larger number of zerglings. If Larva got a chance to do his trick then he'd have the edge, although he would have much preferred a one hatch lair opener.

hero's first 100 gas went on zergling speed, not lair, as his overlord scouted Larva's missing natural. Larva followed with a slower ling speed and took all but one drone off of gas. At this point, hero's overlord was over Larva's main, scouting no lair, no natural expansion, and too few drones, while Larva had no information at all on his opponent beyond location. hero could reasonably have concluded that Larva had expanded to the 11 corner and sent a handful of drones there but hero tried to narrow it down, sending zerglings to every expansion he could reach, and to the back of his own main.

[image loading]
busted

At this point, I would conservatively guess that Larva had at least eight more zerglings as they were even on supply and Larva had around four fewer drones. However, most of Larva's zerglings were in his main, and lacked speed, while hero's speedlings rapidly formed a single flock. hero could get a significant numerical advantage on Larva's zerglings in his main, clean them up, and then the snowballing effect from that disproportionate exchange would allow him to defeat Larva's second army. Larva's only option would be to delay, refusing to fight hero's zerglings.

The optimal strategy would, in my opinion, have been to run them behind the main mineral line where chokes would prevent hero's larger numbers from dominating him until the second army arrived. In either case, his position was very much not ideal but, that may have been the best of a bad situation. Larva attempted exactly that, his proxy army surviving as best it could while his main army pulled hero's to defend the ramp. As hero's zerglings went to the ramp, the proxy army went for the drone line. Once there, it achieved almost nothing, getting immediately drilled and the zerglings trying to attack other zerglings over drones.

[image loading]

hero cut off reinforcements and continued to abuse his interior lines, keeping a constant numerical advantage over Larva who was forced to run his zerglings in circles to keep them alive. It was a delaying action. Hero had a stronger economy and was always eventually going to get sufficient zerglings to place some on the eggs at the proxy hatch.

[image loading]

Larva could never get enough zerglings into a single ball to challenge hero's single mass. The game was over, and both players knew it.

GG

Editorial: Not a fan of Larva's build for exactly the reason we saw. He didn't have the scouting information to spring the trap at the appropriate time and he was quite dependent upon the luck of ZvZ openers which did not go his way this game. Had he sprung it at a time of his choosing, his main speedlings ready at his opponent's natural while his proxy speedlings went for the mineral line, it could have gone really well. But hero identified the possibility and checked for it. Larva wasn't trying to earn a win, he was hoping hero would give him one. hero didn't.

Game 2: Gladiator
Larva spawned at 11 in red while hero spawned at 7 in blue. Both players scouted anticlockwise, favouring Larva with the first scout, and both opted for 12 hat 11 pool. hero went for 10 extractor while Larva went for 11, squeezing an additional drone out first, but it was essentially a mirror. Both went to 12 drones and then saved three larva for six zerglings as pool finished.

hero's faster gas gave him a marginally faster lair but it was still largely a mirror. One unusual thing that Larva chose to do though was to make his lair at his natural. Due to the rotational symmetry of the map layout when hero's second overlord finally made it to Larva's main, it did not pass his expansion, instead finding just a hatchery pumping speedlings, although the drones mining gas indicated some desire to tech to muta.

They mirrored perfectly in drone counts, zergling numbers, spire timings for over five minutes before Larva chanced an attack. hero allowed his defending speedlings to adopt a convex formation at the outside of his natural and the battle went unfavourably for him.

[image loading]

Larva continued to produce zerglings, catching the moment when hero's larva were producing mutalisks (a longer spawn time by 7s), and forced hero to pull drones to defend, killing three. Although Larva's spire was done, he continued to prioritize speedlings, killing more drones and the natural hatchery while hero produced mutalisks that had to stay and defend, and could not physically block the zerglings from killing drones.

A pair of Larva scourge caught a mutalisk hatching from its egg but even had it not, it was two hatcheries vs one. Larva are a very valuable resource in ZvZ and Larva could spend his additional production capacity producing speedlings, representing a perpetual backstab threat, while hero could not counter them without sacrificing muta production and getting behind there. hero was done.

In the few seconds when hero had the mutalisk number advantage, he attempted to move them towards Larva's base, only to have the backstab immediately happen, pushing his weaker economy further behind.

[image loading]

GG

Editorial: Larva did a nice timing attack, correctly recognizing that hero was treating the completion of the spire as an end to the zergling war phase and forcing a decisive battle in the last seconds before mutalisks spawned. hero's mutalisks arrived to find a snowballing zergling advantage in Larva's favour, allowing Larva to delay even producing his own mutalisks, instead getting greater value and cost effectiveness from zerglings and scourge. He had an extremely narrow timing window to make it work, but he hit that window. Still, I can't help feeling like having an overlord over hero's base was a factor.

Game 3: Fighting Spirit
Larva spawned at 1 in red while hero spawned at 7 in blue. hero opted for a 12 pool while Larva went for a 12 hat at natural, a build order advantage, especially in cross spots. Larva followed with 11 pool 10 extractor while hero opted for 12 extractor 11 hatch at natural. hero produced six zerglings, leaving four at his natural and sending one to 11 and 1 respectively, the two base sites he hadn't scouted, while Larva produced an additional three drones and added a blind sunken at his natural the moment it completed. Larva also prioritized lair over zergling speed, playing a defensive high eco opener.

hero's ten speedlings had little offensive potential so instead of producing more and going allin, hero switched to drones, attempting to reduce the economic deficit. But Larva had seventeen drones to hero's thirteen and even with both producing drones, there was an advantage for Larva grandfathered in which hero could not undo. Their spire timings were comparable, Larva's faster lair not being followed immediately by a spire as he instead spent his minerals on a zergling switch.

As in game 2, the overlord scouts favoured Larva. Both players scouted towards 5 but, Larva redirected his overlord to 7 as he saw the 5 natural was clear while hero, scouting in the opposite direction, had to go all the way to the main. This was compounded when Larva's overlord again only had to travel to the 7 natural to scout drone counts and what larva were being spent on while hero again had to travel from main base to main base, Larva's natural being no closer. This meant that hero missed Larva's speedling switch.

When Larva revealed his speedlings, hero was forced to add a sunken of his own, leaving him with two drones mining his natural to Larva's four, but the real story was in the idle larva. hero was struggling to expend all of his larva with his weaker economy while Larva, simply by expending his greater income on speedlings, held hero's drone count down, forcing him to respond in kind.

Unwilling to settle for being two drones behind all game, hero decided to produce another two drones, adding an extractor at his natural and three mining drones ready to switch to gas. At the very least, his income would be equal during the muta phase. This was what Larva had been waiting for. Larva had already established a higher speedling number from his stronger early economy, and he immediately committed his speedlings.

[image loading]

The concave broke hero and, as in game 2, hero was faced with an awful choice, whether to use his eggs to spawn mutalisks, allowing the speedlings to reach his mineral line in the seconds before the mutalisks spawned, or to use them on speedlings with a faster spawn time. He correctly chose speedlings, but even then he lost two drones before cleaning up Larva's lings. With no mutalisk flock advantage established and Larva ahead by at least six drones, the game was pretty much done.

hero had his remaining speedlings, left over from cleaning up Larva's, but with a sunken at Larva's natural and Larva's muta already out, there was no way they could close the economic advantage. The game had turned into a muta war, and Larva could buy more muta. hero attempted to even it out with scourge, but as they entered the decisive muta fight, it was ten mutalisks against six mutalisks and scourge, hero wasn't winning that.

[image loading]

GG

Editorial: Larva got an economic build order advantage with cross positions, hero making ten zerglings before scouting anything was basically the ideal situation for him. The advantage scaled well and that was that. Larva didn't make any mistakes, but nor did hero.

Game 4: Crossing Field
Larva spawned at 10 in red while hero spawned at 4 in blue. Both opted for a 12 hat but, there was a non insignificant difference in their timings (rewatched a few times to identify). As far as I can tell, hero had his drones spawn on a better side of the hatchery and then manually cycled them on the closer minerals for the first 30 seconds. Either way, hero made his overlord on 0:52, Larva his on 0:55, with a resulting difference in drone spawns following. hero's 12 hat went down at 1:37 at his rear natural, Larva at 1:44 at his front natural. 11 pool 10 extractor followed for both players but, by 2:13 hero was actually a full drone ahead, without any divergence in build orders.

Both produced four speedlings but, otherwise spammed drones, leading to hero getting a 3:54 spire to Larva's 4:04. hero did the same thing he had done in games 2 and 3, banking minerals and skipping zerglings in order to be ready for six mutalisks when the spire completed while Larva, also copying games 2 and 3, produced additional zerglings, hoping to hit hero as the spire completed. However, hero's ramp was held by a concave and attempts to find the perfect angle to snipe zerglings by Larva failed, instead costing him zerglings of his own.

[image loading]

hero morphed five mutalisks the moment his spire finished while Larva's attempt to get something done during the time before they hatched resulted in another poor trade. hero was still a drone ahead, identical mining in their mains but, hero having an additional mining drone at his natural, while also coming out of the speedling trade three ahead. hero's mutalisk spawned first and his surviving three speedlings went to Larva's natural, keeping Larva's mutalisks back home while hero killed Larva's scouting overlord.

Larva's slower second gas left his gas a limiting factor on his mutalisk production but, this was compounded by his failure to split production evenly between both hatcheries, with his main hatchery sitting on three larva, effectively idle. By 6:15, the cumulative tiny advantages for hero added up to a third hatchery at his front natural being started, while Larva fell behind on supply. hero, sensing his advantage, forced a muta fight.

[image loading]

GG

Editorial: I don't think Crossing Field was the map for Larva's ZvZ strategy which seems to be built around a real cool timing attack as spire completes. hero opted for his back natural and used the ramp to his advantage, allowing Larva to throw his units away while achieving a mutalisk edge. There were a number of other tiny advantages eked out by hero throughout, but that was the strategic turning point in my opinion. Also, it's kind of crazy that with both players at this level one of them was able to get ten seconds ahead on spire timings in mirror builds. Especially with Larva having the minerals to the left, allowing him to do the larva overlord trick. hero is a beast.

Game 5: Gold Rush
Larva spawned at 9 in red while hero spawned at 12 in blue. hero opted for a 12 pool 12 extractor 11 hat while Larva went with 12 hat 11 pool 10 extractor, a build order advantage to Larva while hero got the overlord scouting advantage. The faster extractor and pool translated into a significantly faster lair for hero but Larva had an additional two drones.

hero abused the scouting advantage, building two zerglings as his pool finished and hiding them near Larva's base while his overlord watched for Larva's first scouting zerglings to leave. He was immediately rewarded with an incredibly low budget backstab.

[image loading]

Larva's first lings were pulled back, a move hero anticipated perfectly as he continued to produce drones, and Larva actually produced even more zerglings, allowing hero to get extremely high value out of his two speedless zerglings. When his spire was started at 3:44, he still had just the first two zerglings. His naked base defended by threat alone.

Larva's spire in response didn't start until 4:05, a huge problem given that there was less than 21 seconds of air distance between hero's main and Larva's natural. The spire was too late and Larva would once again have to force hero to expend his larva on speedlings for defense in order to protect his own later spire.

Unfortunately for Larva, hero still had an overlord and a scouting zergling. He knew exactly what his situation was and that Larva had effectively put himself into a position where only a mass speedling attack could save him. Hero's economy may have still been a little weaker but, he knew that with a sunken and a comparable number of his own speedlings, he would win, assuming he held the ramp against a runby at least.

The scouting information continued to punish Larva really badly. Hero's overlord seeing the speedlings leaving Larva's base while Larva had still seen nothing from hero and needed to keep some speedlings at home to defend against another backstab attempt. Larva added a sunken at his natural, compounding a later spire with a misreading of the situation.

[image loading]

With four hero mutalisks in eggs, Larva made his move trying to break through hero's natural. Many of his speedlings arriving late and in a column due to Larva realizing too late what he was up against.

[image loading]

Larva's lings won but, were denied access to hero's main by three surviving zerglings and a drone and then the mutalisks spawned, ending the attack. Hero made a beeline for Larva's scouting overlord, picking it off and then returning in time to prevent any damage being dealt by Larva's mutalisks, securing a nice mutalisk count advantage for himself. Both players were on two hatcheries; their mutalisk production would always be capped by their larva production. But hero, whose spire had finished first, would always be slightly further ahead and killing an overlord not only cost Larva 100 minerals, it also cost him a larva that could have been turned into a mutalisk.

hero quickly capitalized upon his numerical advantage, attacking Larva's natural and killing the drones there.

[image loading]

Larva was forced to choose between entering a mutalisk fight he couldn't win and sacrificing the drones at the natural, without which he couldn't win. He chose to sacrifice the drones, running his three remaining zerglings by hero's sunken and killing one of hero's drones in response. Amusingly enough, hero had just twelve drones at this point, six on minerals, six on gas, while Larva had four on minerals and six on gas.

Larva made an attempt to even the drone count through harassment but, hero's mutalisks shadowed his and he wasn't able to get close enough to the drones to commit. And over time the difference in drones translated into a mutalisk advantage for hero, despite hero taking more scourge hits than he ought to have taken. Hero won the decisive mutalisk engagement, killed another trio of gas mining drones at Larva's natural, and then backed to ensure that a four speedling runby counterattack could not equalize the damage. The speedlings were cleaned up and the game was won.

GG

Editorial: Larva had a build order advantage but, hero had the scouting advantage and completely threw Larva's game off with just two zerglings. Larva produced zerglings he didn't need and defended when he needed to be attacking, discovering too late that hero had the faster spire timing. Sometimes in ZvZ, it comes down to the luck of the spawns. Larva reaped a significant benefit in games 2 and 3 from the scouting advantage. It's not unreasonable that hero had it go his way once.

Group B Recap

Deicide Denied

Game 1: Gladiator
The game started out with Bisu attempting to utilize the signature low ground mains on Gladiator to gain an early advantage by compromising on economy and opting for a 10/15 gate opener. Flash, foreseeing the potential aggression, chose to go for a siege expand. Bisu's pressure failed to do any damage, save for one unlucky marine, as the Terran player masterfully deceived the former SKT T1 Protoss, and only committed to two solitary marines in the bunker at the front of his natural. The six dragoon commitment put Bisu behind quite considerably, in terms of macro, at least, forcing him to either take an economic risk or invest further into aggression. The Revolutionist followed up with reaver tech, though did not get a chance to utilize its harassment potential, as Flash, having read Bisu like a book, moved out with a formidable army consisting primarily of siege tanks with vultures rallying in to reinforce the push.

[image loading]
The Terran macro engine is at high revs

With Flash coming out on top in the scuffle halfway between the opposing bases, the Protoss player was forced to fall back to his natural only to be pounced on by the constant stream of Terran units.

[image loading]
Fresh probes, ripe for the picking

The two-time ASL champion closed out the first game after Bisu failed to deal any damage with an aggressive build that would surely have been able to slow down any lesser adversary.

Game 2: Fighting Spirit
Anticipating a macro opener from Flash yet again, the former SKT T1 player opened with a ten gate on low ground and proceeded to apply pressure with three zealots. Though Flash seemed ready, he botched up his micro at his respective low ground, losing two scvs and letting the Protoss units up the ramp, where Bisu got a few extra units for his troubles.

[image loading]
Knock, knock

Having cleared out his main, Flash retaliated with an FD-like push, whilst securing his natural. However, he failed to threaten the expansion of his opponent, as the only siege tank in the army got picked off relatively early, and the push was stopped in its tracks. Bisu, though, knowing the situation could get worse, took the necessary precautions, and invested in a shield battery.

Caught in an awkward spot economy-wise for the second time in the series, Bisu was forced to take risks. Arbiter tech on three bases, followed up by a fourth nexus at the 10-minute mark and a fifth one a mere minute later, all whilst applying pressure with unupgraded dragoons, seemed to be the way to go. The greed went unpunished, as Flash never caught wind of it, and the Protoss player started to run away in terms of economy, as well as general supply.

[image loading]
Bisu attempts to take advantage of the significant disparity between the supplies

Fortunately for the Terran player, the wall at the third held on, the aggression was thwarted, and Bisu had to look for a different opening. Flash managed to buy himself some time with a few attempts at running vultures by the main contingent of Protoss units, thus he delayed the inevitable fight until he'd got up to 200 supply.

[image loading]
Two stases as huge as these could have easily ended the battle, had it not been in such proximity to the Terran base.

The time the Protoss dread had come - Flash had maxed out. Bulldozing his way towards Bisu's main and natural, the Ultimate Weapon forced out a fight in the centre of the map, this time on his own terms. The Protoss army, inferior in upgrades as well as tech-wise, did not even get a chance to trade properly, as the science vessels kept zoning any arbiter spells with well placed emps.

[image loading]
Knowing giving up the chokepoint leading to his natural would be disastrous, Bisu attemps to push back a 2/1 Mech army

Taking control of the natural of the Protoss, all that was left for Flash to do, was to secure a fourth and slowly choke Bisu out. He did just that, by clearing out the last zealot runby of the game and switching his attention to the northerly bases of the Protoss player, that were still operational, whilst still keeping the production in the Protoss main contained. With his economy cut in half, and an army lacking complexity to keep up with the mech army, Bisu tapped out.

Game 3: Crossing Field
Bisu's plan seemed to revolve around being as unpredictable as possible, as he went from one extreme to another. Mixing it up on Crossing Field, the Revolutionist chose to throw down a nexus first, yet again expecting Flash to open up with a safe macro build. The Terran player did just that, although he had to delay his first refinery, as Bisu's probe seemed keen on stealing Flash's main gas geyser. Fighting greed with greed, Flash plopped down a third command centre right before the 5-minute mark, complementing his choice with an armory, an academy, and an engineering bay, getting ready to turtle up on three bases. Little did he know Bisu's plans were likewise focused on macroing up a formidable army consisting primarily of carriers. Fortunately, a well timed scan revealed Bisu's intentions.

[image loading]

He then threw down seven additional barracks. Don't ask.

[image loading]
Standard procedure

A +1 han-bang timing to close out the series went south, after Flash overestimated his chances and lost a considerable chunk of his army to reaver shots, after having traded relatively evenly at the beginning of the push.

[image loading]
The carrier count keeps getting higher as reavers mow down Terran bio

Bisu held the attack and finally put a point on the board for himself.

Game 4: Gold Rush
Bisu's take on Skull Desert appeared to be much more reactionary than on any of the previous maps. Flash secured an early expansion whilst going for siege mode to supplement his defense, whereas Bisu chose to open up with a one gate range expansion into robo. Seeing the same opener being utilized by the Terran player, Bisu followed up with hard pressure off of two gateways. Flash took no damage from the rush, save for minerals spent on repairing the solitary bunker at the front of the natural. Potential reaver harassment was yet again denied by well placed missile turrets and the presence of goliaths in the Terran base. Interestingly enough, Bisu invested in not one, but two shuttles, and committed to a drop into the main. Unfortunately for him, one shuttle barely managed to get its passengers to the destination before getting shot down, whilst the other dropped the reaver in a position where it couldn't find any damage.

[image loading]
Bisu makes a beeline for the main mineral line

Bisu's commitment to the attack did not pay off, and the fact that Flash's economy went largely unhindered throughout the game meant the Terran ended up taking a significant supply advantage. With a superior army, the Ultimate Weapon bruteforced his way towards Bisu's base, smashing what was left of the Protoss, and taking the series 3:1.

[image loading]
Flash marching on to the grand final

The community doubted Flash's chances to get two back-to-back ASL titles and he proved the unbelievers wrong. God is back to win yet again.

Group D Preview

God Returns to his Rightful Throne

Well, it’s here. And to be honest, did anyone expect anything different? (T)Flash has once again cruised his way into another final where he is the heavy favorite. Should he win, he will become not only a 3 time ASL champion and receive the golden balloon, but he will have done so 3 seasons in a row. An incredible feat that no player will surely ever achieve. He continues to refine his play, fine tune his build orders, and it seems that nothing can slow the Ultimate Weapon down.

[image loading]
Three wins gets thee gold.

The Road to the Finals:
FlaSh was directly seeded into the Ro16 as the first seed with the power to swap due to his 1st place finish last season. With it, he picked himself a relatively weak group, filled with (Z)Killer, (T)Mong, and (T)Sharp. He easily dispatched the Zerg in a one sided stomp on Crossing Field, then dismantled Sharp in an equivalent to Patton rolling his tanks through North Africa. He emerged victorious, and entered the bracket with a full head of steam. He faced his former teammate, (T)Mind, in the Ro8. He dismantled the poor MSL champ with a resounding 3-0 that left this beautiful meme of an image for all to gaze at.

[image loading]
Progamers hate him!

In the semifinals, he faced off against his old rival, (P)Bisu, for a place in the finals. And it was once again another stomp. He thrashed Bisu 3-1, with the only game that Bisu managed to take off, FlaSh decided to go for 8 rax mnm vs carriers. It gave us an entertaining game but, FlaSh easily took the series in the next game. And just like that, FlaSh merely drops one game enroute to his 3rd straight finals and a chance to win the golden balloon.

[image loading]
Triumph over Bisu

Playstyle:
FlaSh’s TvZ, although not his best matchup as that would be TvT, is his most famous matchup. He invented the new +1 5 rax build that terrorized Zergs for so long, and perfected the mech transition. His marine micro is incredible and his game sense is still top notch, as seen from Game 1 vs Mind.

[image loading]
The most feared build order in the history of Starcraft

There are still gaps in FlaSh’s TvZ. He’s still sometimes too stubborn and sits on 2 bases for far too long when he goes SK Terran. It has plagued him throughout his entire Starcraft career, most notably cost him the game against Jaedong in the famous Game 3 of the Nate MSL. We’ll see if that happens, especially on Gold Rush where Terrans are almost forced to go SK Terran to deal with the side bases of Zerg. His mech play has also seen weaknesses to Larva’s and Soulkey’s mass queen style, where they send in wave after wave of lings while using spawn broodling on all of the tanks to whittle away at the Terran army. This is especially prevalent on Crossing Field, where FlaSh will turtle up forever on his half of the map. He will need to keep his valkyries alive if he chooses to opt for that build or use more turrets/anti-air to defend.

Strategy:
[image loading]

Games 1 and 5 will be on Crossing Field. FlaSh has shown that he is capable of early game destruction of his opponent, or a slow methodical boa constrictor with mech. I think he will default to his 5 rax aggression to take heavy map advantage while doing his switch into mass vultures and securing himself his 4th base. Once he has all 4 gas online, he will transition into mech. Drops early when he’s in bio will be very good to slow down hero’s aggressive play.

[image loading]

Game 2 is on Gold Rush, a traditionally good Zerg map. FlaSh will be playing SK Terran on this map, utilizing his dropships to his advantage. A whirlwind of never ending drops while securing his 3rd base behind the aggression should be a good method to take this game. Once he can secure a 3rd gas, he can begin to slowly tech into tanks and end the game.

[image loading]

Gladiator is an interesting map. I expect hero to play some aggressive lurker opening. FlaSh should open a standard bio + tech game to get tanks out as soon as possible. Then a quick mech switch off a modest 3 barracks is good to take advantage of the high ground ridges with spider mines. If he can split the map, he will be very happy and can hold his ridges.

[image loading]

Fighting Spirit as Game 4 will feature pretty standard games from FlaSh. It’s not difficult to predict his 5 rax to deny hero of any 3rd base for as long as possible. Mech transition should be a standard follow up if he manages to deny it for a reasonable amount of time. Otherwise, if hero can get it up very fast, then expect FlaSh to deviate and go SK Terran to get out dropships and bypass the lurker defense at the top of the ramps.

Overall, FlaSh should have this in the bag. He is the best player bar none in the scene and his playstyle lends itself well to the map pool, even though it is Zerg favored.

FlaSh to win the Golden Balloon, 3-0!

Hero's Journey


The top players stand where there is no fear of shade covering their own. However, the one most daunting obstacle players tend to overlook are the ones beneath pecking at their heels. From below are the ones hiding in the shadows dissecting the top play with frightening efficiency. They bide their time for their own long sought chance in the sun.

[image loading]

The person closest to having that opportunity is (Z)hero. To be fair, hero is no stranger to the spotlight himself, tasting fame against (P)Bisu as the finalist of SSL11. That day he proved even with the mounting competition that he could compete with the very best. Since then though, the bar has been raised even further with the return of (Z)EffOrt, (T)Flash, (Z)Jaedong, and (Z)Soulkey. Yet, time and time again as one of the most consistent players, repeating his success in SSL11, he has once more risen to the call. The challenges have only begun however, as what stands before him is his largest hurdle - the representation of the very zenith of StarCraft skill. An enduring legacy that echoes from the days of KeSPA. His iron rule casts an oppressive shadow over the professional scene once more. He is the final boss, Flash.

Passing The Threshold:
To understand the driving momentum going behind hero, one needs to look at how far he's come. Going into the ASL with no recent successes, he was a mere pebble's drop in the sea compared to the boulder of Flash. Yet, with low expectations hero made strides in the group and bracket stage, dispatching EffOrt, (Z)Shine, (Z)Larva, and Soulkey in incredibly close matches. He's proven himself capable. Through his superior mechanics, decision making, and mind games, he toppled the zerg giants that lay beneath him. Where hero was previously known for poor decision making or lack of game sense, hero has conquered. His words speak no less of the aura that surrounds him.

In his post match interview after beating Larva, Hero stated his personal goal was to overcome his weakness against other zergs and his hardest opponents. At the time the Bisu vs. Flash semifinals hadn't been played. When hero was asked about Bisu and Flash, he only said in anticipation that he wished to face Flash as his real goal over Bisu. There is no sign of hesitation or fear, only the burgeoning confidence of stepping up to the plate, the true spirit of competition.

What speaks of hero's success the most apart from his tournament results is his testament to the pure grind of StarCraft. Nothing translates into skill in StarCraft more than work ethic. Just take a look at the amount of sponsor matches played in the last four months alone: EffOrt, one of the top 3 zergs played 692, Larva, one of the hardest working played 898, and Flash, the ultimate weapon played 726. And hero? 1101 games. How does a person play to the point of exhaustion? How does a person play with a will that leads them to the finals? How does a person play to readily overcome mountain after mountain? On Sunday, we will find out when he makes Flash know of mortality.

Hero vs. Flash:

[image loading]

Then again, ironically for a nickname like God, Flash knows of mortality well enough already. His defeats remind us like any other that he is not infallible. He's lost to lesser players like in GTB, ATB, and once again recently in a blunderous match against EffOrt in the OGN Supermatch event. On the other hand, Flash's achievements are not ones of pure talent and divine will, they are crafted by, much like hero, his own relentless work ethic. To get to the point he is at now, to lead the forefront of the tesagi phenomenon does not take merely "luck."

From one era to the next, Flash has been consistent, maintaining his formidable mental endurance, crisp decision making, and a master class of macro games. Flash showcased his skills against Jaedong during the 2009-2010 era, the best Zerg of the time, defeating him at every turn in the latter half of their tournament encounters. At that point, Jaedong attempted to beat Flash at his own game of the macro war, and later attempted an unorthodox approach which also failed. How exactly can hero thwart Flash then?

Hero's past record doesn't prove anymore optimistic, having a 27% winrate against Flash in the last two months out of 23 games. A major threat against hero is falling underwhelmingly in a macro war of attrition. Will hero be another victim after previous zergs Shine, Soulkey, and Jaedong in the ASL?

Hero on the other side of the table is not an appealing ZvT'er. He has a strong macro oriented style, but often falls just under the technical grace of Soulkey and Larva historically. Watching his stream, he loses a lot of games even with significant resource advantages, or lacks the slight edge in games to overcome terrans. However, in past experiences, in the few days Hero trains without streaming before the finals and up to the point he plays on stage, he is at his most transformed. In addition, the maps Crossing Field and Gold Rush present strong opportunities for map specific strategies. Seen on his stream, he's been experimenting with Crazy zerg with mixed results, a strategy that forces terran to adapt to zerg, prevents a mech transition, and avoids the immobile lurker midgame. While hero in a sample of one hundred games may lose 70 games to Flash in a game of mechanics, series play presents a new arena that hero can pull the win off with superb strategies.

We've seen his inventiveness before, going for an assimilator base vs. Shine, doing a timing attack against EffOrt where he spawn camped EffOrt's mutalisks with his scourge. We can only expect more solid strategies backed up by his solid mechanics to gain sweeping advantages.

At the end of the day though, what approach will hero do? Will the precedent be on hero to try unorthodox strategies as the worse player and Flash to defend his every blow? However, we saw in Flash vs. Shine that playing aggressive and tactically unorthodox was not beneath Flash himself. Hero can sidestep Flash's solid defense, playing greedy to gain a significant economic advantage. That can be done in situations where Flash would be paranoid of an attack. There is also possibly the bravest approach of a head-to-head macro game where there are no shenanigans. In that case, Hero needs to combine the best of both worlds; Larva's macro and Effort's tactical grace.

Overall, what's most important in hero's mental game is to see Flash and himself as equals akin to the Jaedong and Flash rivalry. There he can take Flash to any game he chooses and shape the game according to his will. He need not play out of fear of playing the macro game. That is because hero himself is capable of such plays, a versatility that Shine was not granted. Hero has the on-point decision making in the razor thin, volatile situations as shown in his ZvZ. He has the game sense and mechanical skill that let him outplay Larva despite build order disadvantages. Most importantly, he has a mastery of mind games and series play that toppled Soulkey and EffOrt. He understands the struggle of starting from the bottom only to overcome all odds. It is Hero who will be your ASL4 Champion.

Strategy:
[image loading]

Crossing Field couldn't be a better map for hero to gain a win and set the tone for the rest of the series. Zerg has a significant advantage with the backdoor third base which puts Flash under the gun. Hero has showcased the Crazy Zerg strategy here, but whether he'll have the guts to put it on display live is questionable. Nevertheless, hero can use his initial economic advantage to gain great posturing going into the late game. Even in the late game, Hero has good macromanagement in late game mech switch scenarios. In a split map situation, I'm confident hero can use Queens to great effect.

Conversely, this could be the map where hero starts the series off with a bang, unveiling an unorthodox strategy to throw Flash off. He wouldn't go into the crazy bounds of Shine, but a variation on top of just 3 hatch muta could be seen. Even if the strategy were to fail, he could make Flash paranoid of similar Shine-like shenanigans. Flash for the rest of the series would then play overly safe.

[image loading]

Again, another map filled with strategical possibilities, one of them being Crazy Zerg. Despite the tempting possibility, I imagine hero will go for an even more daring strategy akin to what Shine would do. It's mostly a mystery though.

[image loading]

Gladiator is the map for Flash to dominate on. There is little strategical versatility and no access to a fast third base compared to Crossing Field and Gold Rush. On hero's stream, previously he's been a victim to Rush and Mind's SK Terran dropship/science vessel style. Hero's adaptability to taking cost efficient engagements and not being slowly worn down by irradiates is questionable. I can only assume hero will lose this map in a one sided fashion.

[image loading]

A classic, the map is loathed in the post-kespa era as notoriously Terran favored and is the map hero vetoed. How hero will overcome Flash on a map as easily splittable as FS with the mech switch is hard to guess. Not necessarily an auto-win if hero can get past the hurdle of establishing his 3rd against the daunting +1 5 rax, he may have a chance of overwhelming Flash. We might see hero unveil some of his old lurker/defiler drop play for this map.

[image loading]

If the series comes to the fifth game, hero will be putting the ball in Flash's court to make a move. I expect in a high stakes game like this, Flash might have the guts to pull off an 8 rax. Riding off the tension of a back and forth series, I can only imagine either of these players will attempt to make an incredibly risky move to seal the series. Otherwise, the game will be much like the first.

Prediction: (Z)hero 3-2 (T)Flash


Writers: KwarK, Ziggy, Ty2, FlaShFTW, BigFan
Graphics: Shiroiusagi
Editors: BigFan
Photo Credits: DailyEsports, Liquipedia, Afreeca
Facebook Twitter Reddit
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
intrigue
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Washington, D.C9933 Posts
November 10 2017 23:56 GMT
#2
a hero over flash prediction? very bold...
Moderatorhttps://soundcloud.com/castlesmusic/sets/oak
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
November 10 2017 23:59 GMT
#3
Ty2 likes to live on the edge but I also believe in hero. Flash's reign will end this ASL!
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
[sc1f]eonzerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Belgium6579 Posts
November 11 2017 00:16 GMT
#4
i predicted 3-2 but watching the mappool im sure hero will win 3-2
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10154 Posts
November 11 2017 00:24 GMT
#5
On November 11 2017 08:59 BigFan wrote:
Ty2 likes to live on the edge but I also believe in hero. Flash's reign will end this ASL!

You've voted against FlaSh from the very beginning lol.
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
sM.Zik
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada2547 Posts
November 11 2017 00:29 GMT
#6
You guys are crazy. Flash 3-1
Jaedong Fighting! | youtube.com/ZikGaming
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
November 11 2017 02:31 GMT
#7
I hope Hero proves me wrong, but I am expecting a 3-0, maybe 3-1 Flash.
When I think of something else, something will go here
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
November 11 2017 02:45 GMT
#8
Fantastic work guys, Lets get hype for the finals!
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
TL+ Member
ppp87
Profile Joined May 2016
Laos250 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-11 03:03:34
November 11 2017 02:56 GMT
#9
People predicting hero > Flash make me smile, it will be a quick 3-0 for Flash, stop dreaming. Hero will try bs aggro strats to avoid late game and Flash is going to counter them perfectly into gg as he always do. How can you beleive 1 sec hero will win this ? It's just NOT possible, zero chance.
Djabanete
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States2786 Posts
November 11 2017 03:07 GMT
#10
I expect a good fight from Hero. He has skill and spirit. But I still think that Flash 3:0 Hero and Flash 3:1 Hero are two outcomes that occupy about 80% of the probability distribution for this Bo5.
May the BeSt man win.
Valikyr
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden2653 Posts
November 11 2017 03:16 GMT
#11
Flash 3 - 0 Hero. It'll be another stomp finals.
Dazed.
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada3301 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-11 03:25:06
November 11 2017 03:24 GMT
#12
Prediction: (Z)hero 3-2 (T)Flash

This in combination with the larva vs rain write up...sigh, cant take these seriously anymore. This is going to be a boring 3-0 for flash, with maybe a lucky cheese win by hero. Maybe. Any suggestion to the contrary is honestly laughable.
Never say Die! ||| Fight you? No, I want to kill you.
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-11 03:46:41
November 11 2017 03:39 GMT
#13
On November 11 2017 09:24 FlaShFTW wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 11 2017 08:59 BigFan wrote:
Ty2 likes to live on the edge but I also believe in hero. Flash's reign will end this ASL!

You've voted against FlaSh from the very beginning lol.

Yep. While I think Flash is the best player and GOAT, I personally believe that players such as Bisu and EffOrt have a chance of beating Flash if they are able to play at their very best. It's extremely easy for folks to forget that Flash is human, can make mistakes and that it's his work ethics that got him to this point. Anyways, don't let me bring out the hero background!

On November 11 2017 12:24 Dazed. wrote:
Show nested quote +
Prediction: (Z)hero 3-2 (T)Flash

This in combination with the larva vs rain write up...sigh, cant take these seriously anymore. This is going to be a boring 3-0 for flash, with maybe a lucky cheese win by hero. Maybe. Any suggestion to the contrary is honestly laughable.

Our final previews are always written by two writers: one who's cheering for Flash and one for hero. You're free to dismiss the hero portion of the preview if you like but these players all practice extremely hard to get to their current level and Ty2 put in some really good solid points in hero's favour. Whether hero can actually beat Flash is anyone's guess but personally, I think it's outright silly to completely dismiss the possibility of hero winning, even if we are talking about a 1% chance of that happening.
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
james1024
Profile Blog Joined March 2017
118 Posts
November 11 2017 04:52 GMT
#14
even A. thx. must take a lot of work to write such.
Woke this morning to the stinging lash///Every man rise from the ash/// Each betrayal begins with trust/// Every man returns to dust///
james1024
Profile Blog Joined March 2017
118 Posts
November 11 2017 04:53 GMT
#15
I never liked practicing 6 possible situations in a zvz. My secret build feels superior, even to B ranks...
Woke this morning to the stinging lash///Every man rise from the ash/// Each betrayal begins with trust/// Every man returns to dust///
Twinkle Toes
Profile Joined May 2012
United States3605 Posts
November 11 2017 05:00 GMT
#16
hero 3-2
Bisu - INnoVation - Dark - Rogue - Stats
Jeremy Reimer
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada968 Posts
November 11 2017 05:44 GMT
#17
Flash will dominate this series. I don't think he's human. I watched him beat Jaedong, the greatest Zerg to ever play the game. And now he's even stronger.
"Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere." -- Carl Sagan
Like classic sci-fi and space opera? Check out my author page on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Jeremy-Reimer/e/B007CMQGI4/
Golgotha
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Korea (South)8418 Posts
November 11 2017 05:52 GMT
#18
how can people think hero will beat flash? impossible man. come on.
Shady Sands
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4021 Posts
November 11 2017 07:24 GMT
#19
Humans fight for many things.

Pride. Honor. Justice.

But in the Koprulu Sector, we fight for survival.

Flash fighting.
Что?
letian
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany4221 Posts
November 11 2017 07:35 GMT
#20
lol
Jealous
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
10146 Posts
November 11 2017 08:29 GMT
#21
Skull Desert??

Isn't it Gold Rush?

Would have preferred Kwark to cover BvF but good work nonetheless.
"The right to vote is only the oar of the slaveship, I wanna be free." -- бум бум сучка!
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
November 11 2017 09:08 GMT
#22
HerO's getting rolled, boys.
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
Twinkle Toes
Profile Joined May 2012
United States3605 Posts
November 11 2017 11:26 GMT
#23
Game 1: Crossing Fields
6 pool rush, gg noob.
herO 1 - 0 Flash

Game 2: Gold Rush
Macro midgame battle, SK terran vs. lurker ling. Flash kills herO before Hive.
herO 1 - 1 Flash

Game 3: Gladiator
herO unleashes the mythical hundred-mutalisk build!
herO 2 - 1 Flash

Game 4: Fighting Spirit
Flash camps on two bases with turrets. herO is on 6 bases... then loses to mech push and double drops.
herO 2 - 2 Flash

Game 5: Crossing Fields
Palms sweaty, knees weak, arms are heavy
There's vomit on his keyboard already - mom's bulgogi!
build build build, fight fight fight, and herO wins!!!

herO 3 - 2 Flash

fight me!
Bisu - INnoVation - Dark - Rogue - Stats
Netto.
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Poland523 Posts
November 11 2017 13:23 GMT
#24
^ I am afraid you are going to be dissapointed tomorrow my friend
Be the change you want to see in the world.
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
November 11 2017 13:29 GMT
#25
On November 11 2017 22:23 Netto. wrote:
^ I am afraid you are going to be dissapointed tomorrow my friend


I doubt it with a phat rap like that
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
TL+ Member
Freezard
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Sweden1011 Posts
November 11 2017 13:32 GMT
#26
This is as strong as I've ever seen Flash play. Can't see anything else than 3-0 or 3-1.
PVJ
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
Hungary5214 Posts
November 11 2017 13:34 GMT
#27
3-2 hero and I go ham :O
The heart's eternal vow
Qikz
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United Kingdom12022 Posts
November 11 2017 13:37 GMT
#28
I love Flash, I love how he's like a machine that can't lose. I think it would be better for the scene overall if hero could managed to pull something out of the bag and I dislike hero for beating Bisu in one of the SSL finals.

I'll be rooting for Flash, but if Hero can pull out a win I wouldn't mind.

Flash HWAIGHTING!
FanTaSy's #1 Fan | STPL Caster/Organiser | SKT BEST KT | https://twitch.tv/stpl
NoS-Craig
Profile Joined July 2011
Australia3095 Posts
November 11 2017 14:23 GMT
#29
I'm going Flash 3-1. I think Hero can pull off one win. Still think Flash will get through for a 3 peat.
Artosis loves Starcraft
HolydaKing
Profile Joined February 2010
21254 Posts
November 11 2017 15:16 GMT
#30
Flash 3-0 with godlike play is my bet.
CadenZie
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Korea (South)545 Posts
November 11 2017 16:33 GMT
#31
easiest 3-0 of hero's life
flyingrat
Profile Joined September 2017
43 Posts
November 11 2017 16:41 GMT
#32
not saying hero will win but the people who think he has "0% chance" don't really understand stats. Flash wins around 70% of his games vs zergs, so if they play 1000 games, he would lose 300. It's not hard to imagine that 3 of those losses can come in a 5 game sample, even if it's unlikely.
njoe
Profile Joined June 2012
Sweden26 Posts
November 11 2017 16:43 GMT
#33
3-1 Flash. A herO win, I feel, can only be predicted by over-analyzing the matchup.
The dark side of the Force is a path to many abilities...
XenOsky
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Chile2269 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-11 18:08:42
November 11 2017 18:08 GMT
#34
No way hero beats flash on a bo5 series.
StarCraft & Audax Italiano.
Engdrew
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States890 Posts
November 11 2017 18:57 GMT
#35
Hoping for a 3-2 slugfest. Doesn't matter who wins just want some hype games!
.
LG)Sabbath
Profile Blog Joined July 2005
Argentina3022 Posts
November 11 2017 19:17 GMT
#36
On November 12 2017 01:41 flyingrat wrote:
not saying hero will win but the people who think he has "0% chance" don't really understand stats. Flash wins around 70% of his games vs zergs, so if they play 1000 games, he would lose 300. It's not hard to imagine that 3 of those losses can come in a 5 game sample, even if it's unlikely.

That's career-wise, but since asl 1, flash is 14-4 (78%) vs zerg, and that includes playing jaedong. 22% chance for hero to win means he's winning only 1 game, and I think that's generous, he is no jaedong.
https://www.twitch.tv/argsabbath/
halomonian
Profile Joined January 2012
Brazil255 Posts
November 11 2017 19:50 GMT
#37
head: Flash 3-0
heart: herO 3-2
thoughts in chaos | enjOy[dream]
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
November 11 2017 20:06 GMT
#38
Less than 12 hours for the finals! Go hero go! :D
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
Lorch
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany3682 Posts
November 11 2017 20:33 GMT
#39
On November 11 2017 12:16 Valikyr wrote:
Flash 3 - 0 Hero. It'll be another stomp finals.


As much as I want to see a good finals for once, this'll be the outcome. Flash might have lost that OGN showmatch to effort, but this'll definitely be another one sided stomp by flash.
MrMischelito
Profile Joined February 2014
347 Posts
November 11 2017 22:23 GMT
#40
"equivalent to Patton rolling his tanks through North Africa" - this uncalled war reference is really out of place here. sad to see none of the editors found this at least a bit disturbing...

liked the rest though. keep the reports coming!
Twinkle Toes
Profile Joined May 2012
United States3605 Posts
November 11 2017 23:03 GMT
#41
People underestimate herO too much here. Even Flash is afraid of him.
Bisu - INnoVation - Dark - Rogue - Stats
ppp87
Profile Joined May 2016
Laos250 Posts
November 11 2017 23:16 GMT
#42
Flash afraid of hero
_Animus_
Profile Joined February 2011
Bulgaria1064 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-11 23:47:22
November 11 2017 23:46 GMT
#43
Should i guys remind you what Mind said before facing Flash in ASL interview.
"whoever wins this wins the whole tournament"
So if Mind was certain that his skill is wining him the tour if he beat Flash, then how about the real Boss?
Luv ya BroodWar!
FlopTurnReaver
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Switzerland1980 Posts
November 12 2017 01:15 GMT
#44
People are too fixated on stats. This is a televised offline event. Flash doesn't lose these. He just destroyed the best protoss in the last round, he's definitly not gonna lose against an A-Class Zerg..

3-0 ezpz

+ Show Spoiler +
Lot of ppl gonna look hella stupid after tomorrow :D
Check out @MapOfTheMonth on Twitter and under http://bit.ly/motmorg
niteReloaded
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Croatia5281 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-12 01:45:04
November 12 2017 01:42 GMT
#45
On November 11 2017 09:29 sM.Zik wrote:
You guys are crazy. Flash 3-1

+1

I don't think anyone truly believes hero will win.
Predicting such outsider to win is, though, a good strategy to win praise.
if you guess right, you're a prophet, if you guess wrong, nobody remembers or gives a shit.

flash can only lose if he dicks around, and he has no motives to do that.
if he leans on the conservative side of play, it will lead to a stomp of 3-1 at minimum.

That said, I would enjoy if hero by some chance wins for the purpose of raising the spirit in the SC community. Flash's invincible aura is making his winrate even higher. A chink in the armor would make people play more boldly / with more confidence.
Jealous
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
10146 Posts
November 12 2017 02:57 GMT
#46
On November 12 2017 07:23 MrMischelito wrote:
"equivalent to Patton rolling his tanks through North Africa" - this uncalled war reference is really out of place here. sad to see none of the editors found this at least a bit disturbing...

liked the rest though. keep the reports coming!

... Too soon??
"The right to vote is only the oar of the slaveship, I wanna be free." -- бум бум сучка!
Miragee
Profile Joined December 2009
8507 Posts
November 12 2017 04:39 GMT
#47
On November 12 2017 08:03 Twinkle Toes wrote:
People underestimate herO too much here. Even Flash is afraid of him.


Really? Why though? Hero has historically been terribad in ZvT for his entire carrier. Why should that change now? And even he had great ZvT it would still be very tough against Flash's ZvT. I don't see him take a game here... Maybe one on a fluke. So 3-0 or 3-1 Flash...
ne4aJIb
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Russian Federation3209 Posts
November 12 2017 06:02 GMT
#48
Flash 3:0s Hero and the next ASLs are just ceremonies of giving a trophy to Flash. Until he goes to army.
Bisu,Best,Stork,Jangbi and Flash, Fantasy, Leta, Light and Jaedong, Hydra, Zero, Soulkey assemble in ACE now!
reincremate
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
China2213 Posts
November 13 2017 02:06 GMT
#49
On November 12 2017 11:57 Jealous wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 12 2017 07:23 MrMischelito wrote:
"equivalent to Patton rolling his tanks through North Africa" - this uncalled war reference is really out of place here. sad to see none of the editors found this at least a bit disturbing...

liked the rest though. keep the reports coming!

... Too soon??

Perhaps it's inconsiderate to the Nazis and fascist Italian forces who got rolled in North Africa.
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10154 Posts
November 13 2017 02:23 GMT
#50
On November 13 2017 11:06 reincremate wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 12 2017 11:57 Jealous wrote:
On November 12 2017 07:23 MrMischelito wrote:
"equivalent to Patton rolling his tanks through North Africa" - this uncalled war reference is really out of place here. sad to see none of the editors found this at least a bit disturbing...

liked the rest though. keep the reports coming!

... Too soon??

Perhaps it's inconsiderate to the Nazis and fascist Italian forces who got rolled in North Africa.

ah yes, I should have been warned to have my sympathy for Rommel and the Nazis and their sympathizers here on teamliquid. My apologies.
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
starkiller123
Profile Joined January 2016
United States4030 Posts
November 13 2017 02:25 GMT
#51
On November 12 2017 07:23 MrMischelito wrote:
"equivalent to Patton rolling his tanks through North Africa" - this uncalled war reference is really out of place here. sad to see none of the editors found this at least a bit disturbing...

liked the rest though. keep the reports coming!

....of all the complaints to have
Miragee
Profile Joined December 2009
8507 Posts
November 13 2017 02:29 GMT
#52
On November 13 2017 11:23 FlaShFTW wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 13 2017 11:06 reincremate wrote:
On November 12 2017 11:57 Jealous wrote:
On November 12 2017 07:23 MrMischelito wrote:
"equivalent to Patton rolling his tanks through North Africa" - this uncalled war reference is really out of place here. sad to see none of the editors found this at least a bit disturbing...

liked the rest though. keep the reports coming!

... Too soon??

Perhaps it's inconsiderate to the Nazis and fascist Italian forces who got rolled in North Africa.

ah yes, I should have been warned to have my sympathy for Rommel and the Nazis and their sympathizers here on teamliquid. My apologies.


Hi

No seriously, he probably meant the war reference in general?
TentativePanda
Profile Joined August 2014
United States800 Posts
November 13 2017 05:13 GMT
#53
I like believing in underdogs etc. But Flash is something else. A god. It's stupid to think hero will win more than 1 game. Probably from an aggro build on a map that favors it, if hero manages to win a game. People saying Flash will lose don't believe in science lmao. Except the writer, he's just trying to hype the one sided match this will turn out to be. Respect for that lol
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10154 Posts
November 13 2017 07:54 GMT
#54
On November 13 2017 11:29 Miragee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 13 2017 11:23 FlaShFTW wrote:
On November 13 2017 11:06 reincremate wrote:
On November 12 2017 11:57 Jealous wrote:
On November 12 2017 07:23 MrMischelito wrote:
"equivalent to Patton rolling his tanks through North Africa" - this uncalled war reference is really out of place here. sad to see none of the editors found this at least a bit disturbing...

liked the rest though. keep the reports coming!

... Too soon??

Perhaps it's inconsiderate to the Nazis and fascist Italian forces who got rolled in North Africa.

ah yes, I should have been warned to have my sympathy for Rommel and the Nazis and their sympathizers here on teamliquid. My apologies.


Hi

No seriously, he probably meant the war reference in general?

gdi dude dont give me a scare lol.

I mean I guess. But I thought the analogy was pretty apt. It's a game about war and especially FlaSh vs Sharp is a game about tank count for a good portion of it.
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
Miragee
Profile Joined December 2009
8507 Posts
November 13 2017 08:14 GMT
#55
On November 13 2017 16:54 FlaShFTW wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 13 2017 11:29 Miragee wrote:
On November 13 2017 11:23 FlaShFTW wrote:
On November 13 2017 11:06 reincremate wrote:
On November 12 2017 11:57 Jealous wrote:
On November 12 2017 07:23 MrMischelito wrote:
"equivalent to Patton rolling his tanks through North Africa" - this uncalled war reference is really out of place here. sad to see none of the editors found this at least a bit disturbing...

liked the rest though. keep the reports coming!

... Too soon??

Perhaps it's inconsiderate to the Nazis and fascist Italian forces who got rolled in North Africa.

ah yes, I should have been warned to have my sympathy for Rommel and the Nazis and their sympathizers here on teamliquid. My apologies.


Hi

No seriously, he probably meant the war reference in general?

gdi dude dont give me a scare lol.

I mean I guess. But I thought the analogy was pretty apt. It's a game about war and especially FlaSh vs Sharp is a game about tank count for a good portion of it.


Hah

Well, I don't mind the reference. I don't think referencing war events as a comparison for dominant/glorious play in a game is what I would do because I'm a pacifist and don't think it really fits in any situation but I don't think one should be offended by it.
Normal
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 7h 3m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 126
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 4625
NaDa 64
HiyA 58
Sexy 45
Noble 44
sSak 11
Icarus 8
Dota 2
monkeys_forever1291
LuMiX1
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox1190
Mew2King334
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor199
Other Games
summit1g12114
tarik_tv11897
JimRising 1493
shahzam736
Nina236
ViBE225
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1707
BasetradeTV112
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 49
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
FEL
7h 3m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
12h 3m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
16h 3m
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
Online Event
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
6 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
BSL Team Wars
FEL Cracov 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.