EPTInformation from Korea - Page 89
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Lorch
Germany3711 Posts
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avanhokie
50 Posts
On March 02 2018 02:21 Alpha-NP- wrote: Lol the 33% Zerg won was probably only ZvZ. Hahahaa. Its literally on the graph that Zergs are at 48% vs Terran and 22% vs Protoss. ZvZ is not calculated in the percentage... | ||
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onlystar
United States971 Posts
On March 02 2018 06:14 avanhokie wrote: Its literally on the graph that Zergs are at 48% vs Terran and 22% vs Protoss. ZvZ is not calculated in the percentage... Its literally on the graph that Zergs are at 48% vs Terran thats must be some kind of misunderstanding or statistical mistake zerg does NOT in NOWAY ever get 48% vs Terran on Sparkle or do u i understand u wrong? ive watched flash play on sparkly TvZ he is +/- 18 wins (ish) 2 Loses on that map the 2 loses are from 1 miscalled 2hatch muta rush timing and other lose is from a bug in the map (marines could not go to lower natural base) even after the adjustments to the map its more towards 30% vs 70% ZvT ratios | ||
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jinjin5000
United States1560 Posts
On March 02 2018 07:04 onlystar wrote: thats must be some kind of misunderstanding or statistical mistake zerg does NOT in NOWAY ever get 48% vs Terran on Sparkle or do u i understand u wrong? ive watched flash play on sparkly TvZ he is +/- 18 wins (ish) 2 Loses on that map the 2 loses are from 1 miscalled 2hatch muta rush timing and other lose is from a bug in the map (marines could not go to lower natural base) even after the adjustments to the map its more towards 30% vs 70% ZvT ratios Flash usually has 80% vs zerg | ||
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Miragee
8714 Posts
On March 02 2018 07:04 onlystar wrote: thats must be some kind of misunderstanding or statistical mistake zerg does NOT in NOWAY ever get 48% vs Terran on Sparkle or do u i understand u wrong? ive watched flash play on sparkly TvZ he is +/- 18 wins (ish) 2 Loses on that map the 2 loses are from 1 miscalled 2hatch muta rush timing and other lose is from a bug in the map (marines could not go to lower natural base) even after the adjustments to the map its more towards 30% vs 70% ZvT ratios That's what the statistic says though. | ||
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PVJ
Hungary5221 Posts
You can query the sponbbang to see the exact results and numbers so no need to "adjust" or guess anything. So, here's a list of all T matches played on Sparkle: http://sponbbang.com/bj/?order1=전체&order2=elo&detail_td=winrate&month1=2018-02&month2=2018-03&race=테란&map_id=127 Flash has a vZ rating of 75% however Mind, Mong, Sea, Iris are all below 50% while Rush and Light aren't that convincing either (53 and 50 per cents). (They will all participate in Ro24 except Flash and Iris.) If you are distressed by the foreign looking letters you can press the icon in the right top corner to switch from Korean to English. (A -> 가) Edit: WOW, Sharp is suprisingly strong on Sparkle. I haven't seen any of his games yet but this kind of makes me want to look at the type of matches he played. | ||
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Miragee
8714 Posts
ZvT on Sparkle looks quite a bit less one-sided that ZvP. Probably because wrait/valk + drops is much less OP than mass sairs and reaver drops are. | ||
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Terrorbladder
2755 Posts
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Cryoc
Germany914 Posts
But I am pretty sure that you could avoid this with relative low investment for example by getting some spores, overlord speed immediately after lair and then tech to queens with ensnare as soon as you see a corsair opening. Even if they research Dweb, you can just ensnare them when they are going for the overlords and most of your overlords would survive because they are faster. You can even combine it with a mass scourge fleet to kill them or just tech to hive to get better air units. So far I have only seen queens being used for parasite early on. As long as Zerg gets to hive without losing a ton of overlords they are in a pretty good position. | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7183 Posts
On March 03 2018 20:38 Cryoc wrote: Strategies do not develop over night, especially for a map concept, that hasn't been played professionally for 10 years. From the ZvPs I watched the main problem seems to be that Zerg often loses almost all Overlords vs the corsair opening at one point in time, because there are not enough spores or only spores and disruption web deactivates them all and then of course Zerg is behind all of the sudden. But I am pretty sure that you could avoid this with relative low investment for example by getting some spores, overlord speed immediately after lair and then tech to queens with ensnare as soon as you see a corsair opening. Even if they research Dweb, you can just ensnare them when they are going for the overlords and most of your overlords would survive because they are faster. You can even combine it with a mass scourge fleet to kill them or just tech to hive to get better air units. So far I have only seen queens being used for parasite early on. As long as Zerg gets to hive without losing a ton of overlords they are in a pretty good position. u didnt see enough games mb cuz all u mention is used,except mb the overlord speed,the biggest problem is that protoss is always in even bases. | ||
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TT1
Canada10095 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7183 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7183 Posts
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RedW4rr10r
Switzerland749 Posts
On March 03 2018 21:07 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: i think creep in the natural is needed. i believe it was the case in early versions. Yeah, the first version had a creep in the natrual. I also think they should bring it back to balance ZvP. But then again, Terran seems to have a hard time vs. Zerg already (although it's definitely not as one-sided as someone already pointed out a few posts ago). | ||
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Cryoc
Germany914 Posts
On March 03 2018 20:56 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: u didnt see enough games mb cuz all u mention is used,except mb the overlord speed,the biggest problem is that protoss is always in even bases. Maybe, but it should be really difficult to hold an early third, if Zerg was able to quickly get to devourers/guardians without losing a lot of overlords, since templar tech should barely be ready. My main concern is that middle base. By getting that as third base, Protoss equalizes the gas income and can build endless HT/Archons/DA. Maybe they should place a 5000hp building on the middle expansion to prevent an early expansion to that base. | ||
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ne4aJIb
Russian Federation3209 Posts
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Freakling
Germany1534 Posts
On March 03 2018 21:23 RedW4rr10r wrote: Yeah, the first version had a creep in the natrual. I also think they should bring it back to balance ZvP. But then again, Terran seems to have a hard time vs. Zerg already (although it's definitely not as one-sided as someone already pointed out a few posts ago). There is so much more that can be done to adjust island map balance. For example, add more ground paths (or a central continent as KogeT suggested sometwhere) which would help both Zerg and Terran (by making Goliath/Tank a more viable tech choice). Or add some strategic drop cliffs at some points, the old and proven method of turning any map Terran imba almost immediately. In addition the tileset could be changed to desert (or jungle… or even ice *shudder*) and strategic areas of cover terrain added (à la DeserTec), though that might be a mixed bag for island ZvP. Instead of creep, a neutral Egg, Spider Mine or Installation Turret could be added to the low ground naturals to selectively only allow Zerg to build a Hatch right away, while P/T would first need to get either detection (Turrets/Cannons to detect invisible Turrets/mines) or splash damage (Tanks/Reavers to kill undetected Turrets/Mines) or mid-tear combat units (Vultures/Goons to kill an Egg). Unfortunately the collision size order for resource depots is Z<P<T, so P, the man in the middle, can neither be blocked out nor allowed separately. In any case, Terran is a lot less affected by typical implementations of removable nat blocks than Protoss because they can always build their CC off location and lift it in/readjust its position later (for typical examples, play/watch some games on Arkanoid). The really hard-core solution is to use a disabled Installation door to create an expansion where, permanently!, only Zerg can build a resource depot (this would also be one of the possible ways to fix the stack bugs on the starting resource depots on Transistor. Pretty sure I already saw neutral CCs (to infest) mentioned somewhere. You can make them spawn only on free spawns, as a variation, as I did on (3)Flight Path. Speaking of Installation Gates – the enabled form, Fortress-style, can do wonders to allow Zerg to expand more earlier. The nat geyser could also be Zerg only initially, by the same principle as the in-main geyser, but with a destructible building (make it a Xel'Naga Temple or, more in style, an Overmind [aka. "infested geyser"], if you must). With appropriate off-grid placement of a building, a Geyser that is blocked for Protoss only is also just as easy to implement. You can even make geysers that can only be built on after they have been scouted by an air unit (so a lifted Rax for T, an Ovi for Zerg, but Protoss would need to tech all the way to Sairs or Shuttles). There is also a way to make geysers unbuildable for Zerg only – but that is of course the exact opposite of what is desirable Just adjusting mineral amounts (like only 8 patches in the mains) can help Zerg economically, relative to the other races. Instead of Lairs there could be creep spawners to generate permanent creep, but alas, I think Blizzard still has not fixed/reimplemented them for SC:R… | ||
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Miragee
8714 Posts
On March 03 2018 22:08 Cryoc wrote: Maybe, but it should be really difficult to hold an early third, if Zerg was able to quickly get to devourers/guardians without losing a lot of overlords, since templar tech should barely be ready. My main concern is that middle base. By getting that as third base, Protoss equalizes the gas income and can build endless HT/Archons/DA. Maybe they should place a 5000hp building on the middle expansion to prevent an early expansion to that base. It's not difficult to hold a third as protoss because they have sairs before zerg has any sort of air even with a fast tech. And they don't even have to get a third. Playing 2 base vs 2 base against zerg is more than sufficient. Zerg can't really get a third. | ||
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Terrorbladder
2755 Posts
![[image loading]](https://mblogthumb-phinf.pstatic.net/MjAxODAzMDRfMzcg/MDAxNTIwMTQwNTQyNTE5.5eCno7T9UG-fGj0ZACYf8yBpaahVE_E9rXc1GJx-Qtkg.XejeKsmuA1P2ExiKTX5InFxOfw3Gw6wXjTv1sXtplzMg.JPEG.kangkuyol/%284%29Sparkle_1.0.jpg?type=w2) Changelog: 1. Removed the center expansion 2. Added 2 mineral patches to each of the 12, 3, 6, 9 expansions 3. Move the location of the Lairs at 12, 3, 6, 9 to allow building stuff without having to destroy the Lairs 4. Added 3 mineral patches near the Zerg-only geyser of each base, reduced the gas in the natural geyser from 3500 to 3000, increased the gas in the Zerg-only geyser from 1500 to 3000 5. Added a (Neutral Lair) in the corner of each base | ||
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Terrorbladder
2755 Posts
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![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/uKes7yu.png)
