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Hi, fellow StarCraft fan!
As you know, this spring, Blizzard announced they would be releasing StarCraft: Remastered, targeted for later this year. The new version features updated graphics and UI fixes that are true to the fans, old and new. With the advent of SC:R's imminent release, and the release of the new 1.18 patch, the spotlight is once again shined on this classic game. With such attention being given, many players who have been introduced to the StarCraft series through StarCraft 2 are trying out StarCraft: Brood War for the first time, which can be daunting.
If you happen to be one of such people who has a genuine interest in StarCraft: Brood War, I wrote this for you! This has definitely been one of my favorite games of all-time, and I am thrilled that you are giving it a try. Maybe you'll like it... or maybe not. Me personally, I was excited for SC2, gave it a try, had a bit of fun here and there, but unfortunately, didn't have as much fun as I could have.
I guess the main reason for being turned off by SC2 wasn't even the game itself. I just knew a lot of people on Brood War, and I would go onto SC2 and feel kind of alone in some dark, new place. The first, and most important thing, is to find some people to hang out with who aren't judgemental, and who want to talk things through in an interesting way or with a sense of humor. What you don't want is to hang out with angry people who make excuses for losing, and talk down to you when they win.
Also, don't hang out with people who go "^^" after every sentence. Those people are assholes.
Where To Meet People
You're in the right place! Teamliquid.net has people, reddit has people, and of course, you can meet people on battle.net. Team games and "Use Map Settings" (UMS - essentially mini-games) games are a good way to just to have fun and figure out how the game feels. You can even grab some of your irl friends and say, "Hey, let's play versus computers" if you feel like humans are too scary.
Playing Competitively
I would recommend starting off playing casually, but some people want to jump in and be competitive right away. If you want to do it, go for it, but there is a STEEP learning curve. The amount of information and practice you will need to be legitimately competitive is staggering. Not impossible, of course.
There is a lot of outdated instructional material (not bad material, just a bit dated, is all) available that you can springboard off of, but you're more likely to run into some roadblocks if you just dive into playing cold.
You'll probably also need to watch a lot of StarCraft games. It's important to be inspired by how other people play when figuring out how you want to play. One question SC2 people ask me right away is, "How do I play this match-up?" and I'm not always sure what to tell them, because there are many legitimate ways to play nearly any match-up.
Truthfully, you will likely lose 90% - 100% of your first 50 or so games. Not because you "suck" or "are bad" or anything like that. You're learning. You're figuring out how this game works and how everything kind of fits together. It's really, really important to have a positive attitude, and remind yourself to stay positive. Probably one of the toughest things for me to do is taking a break after I lose a game that really upsets me. But it's important to give your brain a break, and just kind of put things in perspective.
That being said, I would encourage you to try things and be creative. However, I would also say that StarCraft is kind of like any artistic endeavor: you have to learn how to do certain things "right" before getting too creative. For example, let's say I'm learning how to cook. I could get really creative and throw half a pound of cinnamon into my pot of chili, but that might not be the optimal choice if I'm trying to serve that chili to people who are going to eat it.
Mechanics
The way stuff interacts with other stuff in SC2 is way different than in Brood War. I had sort of a similar experience because I used to play a ton of Total Annihilation way back when, and then played Supreme Commander some years later. SupCom does some cool stuff: like if you build a building and there's a unit there, the unit will get out of the way so the building can build. I go back to TA, and my units are idiots again. "Building area was blocked", my construction vehicle/kbot will say.
So yeah, big difference. One difference that I find to be very noticeable when I watch SC2 players trying out Brood War is their bases are very, very messy and disorganized. A disorganized base will make it difficult to get things done, and sometimes units will get stuck, or you won't know where to put a building because there's too much clutter. This is actually easier to fix than you might think. By playing on an empty map, or versus a computer using some handy cheat codes, you can take your jolly time just playing around in single-player and figuring out how to build bases.
The next problem I see is a "I told my building to build and it didn't" sort of problem. This will mainly happen for two reasons: first, the building site was blocked. Something got in the way, or is still in the way. For example, let's say you're Terran and you want to build two supply depots next to each other at the same time. The first supply depot starts building, and it's not problem. However, in SC:BW, the SCV that is building kind of hovers around the structure while welding it with its fusion cutter and doesn't realize that it may be hovering where the second depot needs to be dropped. Then you see "Building site was blocked" from the second SCV, who sees the site blocked by the first SCV hovering around. DON'T YOU JUST LOVE THE 90S?
The second reason a building may not build is because you spent the money. In SC2, the moment you build a building, the money is subtracted from your piggy bank. In SC:BW, the money is not subtracted until the worker reaches the spot and starts building stuff. So if you have 400 minerals, and try to build a nexus, but in the meantime, you make another gateway, the probe trying to build the nexus will prompt Aldaris to yell at you about a mineral deficiency.
As far as unit movement goes, if you try to send 100 zerglings through a small choke, here's what will happen: A bunch of lings will clog that choke, but will make their way through. The lings in the back will see the choke is clogged and think, "Okay, I can't get through there. I need to go another way." and will turn around. If you start rapid-clicking them through, though, it will help the lings to figure it out. Not because they are too dumb to listen the first time, but because they listened to your order, saw the path was blocked, and decided to reassess how to get to where you ordered them to go. Every time you click the ground for them to go somewhere, it's a brand new order to go somewhere. So if they're constantly turning around and running away, click them in the right direction. You know that the chokepoint will unclog, they don't.
Attitude and Mentality
Your brain plays the game. Your brain sends signals to your hands through your nervous system, and that expands and contracts muscles, and so on. It's an amazing and mysterious process, but it all goes back to your brain. If you are tired, hungry, angry, sad, or even happy, all these things can affect how you play the game. What you don't want is to have a horrible attitude. I know from personal experience that having a good attitude can be very critical to success, and having a bad attitude can cause you to go nowhere.
Winning is fun, and everyone wants to do it, but in order for there to be a winner, there also has to be a loser. Someone, somewhere in the world, has to lose, and it's probably going to happen to you. I already mentioned that there is a steep learning curve in SC:BW, but you should not intentionally lose, or play to not lose. Your intention should always be to win each game. Being afraid to lose is a very real human fear, and the only way to overcome that fear is to experience losing without any excuses. You have to say to yourself, "I did the best I could do at that time to win, and I did not win. So, what can I learn from this?"
When you lose, don't let losing be just 'a thing that happens to you'. There is still value that you can pull from losing, which you can gain by being honest with yourself.
For example, let's say you're an uber-noob, and your plan is to get mass carriers. First, you go, "I don't want my opponent to rush me." so you build cannons at your entrance. Then you think, "Wow, it's been awhile since my opponent has tried anything. I'd better prepare anti-air." and so you build a ring of cannons around your whole base. Then 48 guardians come out of the darkness and kill everything. Game's over.
What went wrong?
You probably won't know exactly what went wrong. But, this is the time to be the most introspective. Open up the replay and start looking at what your opponent did and what you did. You can't read your opponent's mind, but you can know what you were thinking. You built cannons because you were afraid of a zergling rush that never came. You then built cannons for anti-air, and it wasn't effective at all because guardians out-range cannons. So, from this, you should deduce:
- All the cannons were unnecessary because there was no zergling rush, and guardians murder cannons.
- Cannons are ineffective as anti-air against guardians, and you will need some other form of anti-air in order to succeed against that unit composition.
I'm not saying these things are necessarily "right" or "wrong". I'm saying when you're playing and learning, you're basically conducting experiments. As any good scientist knows, an experiment cannot fail, because the purpose of an experiment is simply to gather data.
The wrong way to handle this kind of loss would be to:
- Think guardians are "bullshit"
- Think your opponent is a maphacker
- Make an excuse, such as: "2 more minutes, and I would've been ready to kill you."
What is okay, though, is to be angry. It's okay to be angry. If your anger is so out-of-control that you can't manage your own actions, then Brood War is not a healthy outlet for you. Brood War will inevitably make you angry, unless you are a robot with no emotions. What you do with your anger is up to you. You can be negative about it, or you can make it work for you.
There is no need to be overly self-critical, or worse, self-destructive, and say things like, "I fucking suck, I want to kill myself." which I have literally said to myself before. Doesn't do anything good.
If you believe you are smarter than most people (after all, StarCraft is an intellectual game for the chosen ones) and should therefore be winning, you're absolutely wrong. You may be correct that you are smarter than the average person. The average person has an IQ of around 90-100, and unironically enjoys watching Keeping Up With The Kardashians. When you step into the StarCraft realm, though, you are just a commoner. Even with your 160 IQ, and master's degree in Physics, you are essentially nobody. A lot of very smart people play StarCraft. Even people that come across as complete morons when you talk to them can beat you easily.
Point being, you have to set the ego aside.
Expecting yourself to do well in StarCraft simply because you are smart is kind of illogical. The only way to do well in something is to practice it, learn it, and experience it. If anything, just do your best and be kind to yourself.
Build Orders
Another funny question I get a lot of from people coming over from SC2 is: "What build order should I do?" which is another difficult-to-answer question. To answer it, I kind of have to deconstruct what a build order is and what its purpose is. So point A is the start of the game, and point B is you winning an overwhelming victory. Build orders don't get you from point A to point B.
The "cannon into carrier" example I gave earlier could be considered a build order. First, build orders are guidelines to get you what you want over the course of a game. In the "cannon into carrier" example, we wanted two things:
- Safety from rush
- Carriers
That's it, that's all we could ever ask for. Then the game plays out, and we're overwhelmed by a huge number of guardians. We go to watch the replay and see that the Zerg has 12 bases mining gas. Why?
Because he's reacting. Second to simply getting what you want (such as "I want ultralisks"), build orders are a premeditated set of triggers that you use to act and react to the happenings in the game. By "trigger", I mean a basic "If x then y" sort of thing. For example: "If I see Zerg getting lair and hydra den, then it means lurkers." and then you do your anti-lurker build order. So build orders are less like a "how-to-win" recipe and more like a tree of different options that you've pre-planned.
Keep in mind that I say that build orders are premeditated. For example in ZvP, if I'm Zerg, I'll go scout the Protoss base out and see what's up. If I see the Protoss is fast-expanding, I will double-expand, knowing that there is little that he/she can do to me at that point in the game. However, if I see Protoss is going for gateways first, I know zealots will be on the way, and that if I double expand, it's going to be difficult to defend properly, so I do a single expansion rather than double expanding.
Many players say, "I don't know what to do in the late game. I get there and then I just don't know what to do." and really, the late game is where you want to get to. You want to get to such a huge advantage that no matter which decision your opponent makes next, you will be able to crush that decision completely. Your build orders should all be complete, and should be general guidelines on how to get there.
I say "huge advantage" rather than "win", because you can always blow it and lose. Or maybe you get straight-up outplayed and lose your advantage. All I'm saying is that you want to give yourself the best possible opportunity to win.
Some build orders are more risky than others. Most risk is "calculated risk". A risky build order may lead to losing the game or being at a disadvantage, but it also may lead to a win or an advantage. Many modern build orders are based on risk management. For example, let's say you're playing Protoss versus Terran and decide you want to do a dark templar drop. You can do some heavy damage to the Terran base, but also, there's a possibility that your shuttle flies over a turret and dies instantly. You're basing your play on the assumption that Terran will likely not have a turret that early in that spot.
As you gain experience over the course of tons of games, you'll figure out that some stuff works, and some stuff usually doesn't.
Balance Discussion
Unfortunately, we gotta go here, which is me saying "don't go there". I don't use hyperbole, such as, "Brood War is perfectly balanced", because there are things in the game that are really strong. You'll find that certain match-ups are more difficult for you than others. I hear this often from new players who play Zerg: "How come I need 200+ apm to dodge storms when Protoss can beat me with 120 apm? When it's so much harder to play Zerg, something is wrong."
If this is true, play Protoss. If you want to win, play the race you feel is the strongest. That's only logical, right? To some people, it's not logical. I feel like this is especially the case in SC2, where Blizzard constantly tinkers with the balance. Every time they do this, it fundamentally alters the way the game is played. Each time the game is changed, it changes strategies, build orders, and stuff has to be figured out from scratch, and professional players have to see how the meta-game pans out over the course of thousands and thousands of games. Until that happens, the change is a big question mark, and down here, at the mere mortal level, we have no idea yet if Blizzard legitimately "broke" SC2 or if a solution is out there that we haven't found yet.
Therefore, it is easy to think a race is fundamentally overpowered because no solution seems to present itself. This does not mean that a solution does not exist, but it's very easy to say, "I've tried every unit possible. Nothing beats this." But the solution may not be a unit. It might be a timing, or building placement, or a composition of different units, or some small way you have to click the mouse. Or it could be ALL of those. Seriously.
In StarCraft: Brood War, the process of finding solutions to problems is actually still ongoing. The way people play the game follows 'trends', which is often referred to as the 'meta-game'. Stuff becomes trendy because it's effective. It's not like everyone wakes up one day and goes, "Hey, let's all just go 6 fact every game when we're in close positions with Protoss!" There's a lot of trial and error, and people emulate what pro-gamers do. During certain meta-game changes, a certain race will seem to win more in XvY match-up, then Y players will find a solution to what X players are doing. No patches or balance changes necessary.
The reason Brood War players are so against balance changes is because historically, it has been proven over and over that every strategy is beatable, and there is a perfectly viable in-game solution that exists which is just hiding. It's easy to get tunnel-vision and think inside of a box when solving problems (plus players are really stubborn about change) so it can take awhile.
Where To Play
Should you play on Fish? iCCup? US East or West? Right now, the answer's up in the air. Blizzard is having difficultly properly implementing the 1.18 patch, and a lot of people have experienced weird bugs that aren't present in 1.16.1. So they're still kind of waiting to see what happens.
Anywhere is fine to play, but if you want to play a bit more casually, going on the 1.18 battle.net is fine. If you're coming back and were ranked B- to A- on iCCup, you can still go there and it'll be somewhat competitive unless you're one of the top players from the 2010 era. If you're really competitive, you can go on Fish, but you will need to download some Korean versions of maps, and knowing how to type a few useful Korean words/phrases will be good.
No matter what you decide, don't play on Garena. It is an evil place.
FAQ:
Q: Does mca64launcher work with 1.18?
A: not currently. mca64 has said he doesn't have the time to make an update for the new patch. You can get a copy of 1.16.1 StarCraft from iccup.com.
Q: Do I need to speak Korean to play on Fish?
A: No, but it doesn't hurt. I would strongly recommend downloading Korean versions of maps.
Q: Which race is the best one?
A: Protoss
Q: Will Blizzard implement a ladder, match-making, etc.?
A: I don't know. They promised it, but that doesn't mean much in my opinion. The ladder is only fun if you're not bottom-of-the-barrel tier. I don't like the idea of match-making, so I'd hope it's not mandatory.
Q: How many workers do I need, total?
A: It depends on your race. There is no exact number, though. I'd recommend watching some Brood War replays of good players, maybe watching a few of not-so-good players.
Q: I got top 10 grandmasters on NA. How well do you think I'll rank against current Brood War players?
A: Probably very poorly at first. Note that I say, "at first". I really can't give a good estimate of how quickly you'll progress, but you will definitely progress if you play consistently and have a good mindset.
Good luck, have fun
Whether you really have a tremendous drive to play StarCraft: Brood War, or are just dabbling, I hope you ultimately just have fun and meet some great people. You're not going to be playing StarCraft for the rest of your life, so you as well get some fulfillment out of it. You should play and do things that make you happy, because life can be a miserable bitch, and it always helps if you don't contribute to your own misery by doing things you hate. Yes, SC:BW can get frustrating, but also can be incredibly rewarding! It's totally up to you how you want to approach it, but I hope you have at least as much fun as I've had playing it - hopefully more!
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I skimmed through the post, and I didn't realize it was posted by ninazerg until I finished skimming it, lol. It's a good introductory post for SC2 people who's thinking about getting into SC:BW. 
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Wow, my ZvP guide isn't in there. I got dissed hard. ;-;
First shalashaska, now this.
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On May 01 2017 10:57 ninazerg wrote:Wow, my ZvP guide isn't in there. I got dissed hard. ;-; First shalashaska, now this.
What did shalakashalashakala do?!
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On May 01 2017 09:53 ninazerg wrote:
Q: Which race is the best one?
A: Protoss
nina why you lie terran op
im crushing iccup noobs with 5rax +1 and losing to it badly as z
what do please help 
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The bias in this guide is hillarious lol, nice work though nina :-P
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Q: Will Blizzard implement a ladder, match-making, etc.?
A: I don't know. They promised it, but that doesn't mean much in my opinion. The ladder is only fun if you're not bottom-of-the-barrel tier. I don't like the idea of match-making, so I'd hope it's not mandatory.
I don't know, the main thing im excited for is ladder and match making and I asked some of my korean friends of course they don't account for all of the star community but this is one of the main things we are excited about and what got everyone back into play, an organized ladder system where we can just play.
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I can sense there's someone who never learnt to ZvP ^^ Funny since usually zergs are really strong vs P ^^
^^
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On May 01 2017 11:50 GGzerG wrote:
The bias in this guide is hillarious lol, nice work though nina :-P
I don't follow... bias towards what?
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Croatia9506 Posts
Hey, I go "^^" after (almost) every sentence
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Northern Ireland163 Posts
Thanks for this ninazerg - difficult to know where to play and I do feel slightly alone in the dark like on SC2. One of the reasons I quit at the start of HotS and went back to playing WoW because there was no sense of community. Also not impressed with some of the attitudes of people on SB and ICCUP, who seems to be up their own arses, so I may just continue playing UMS on BNET
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On May 01 2017 17:12 2Pacalypse- wrote:Hey, I go "^^" after (almost) every sentence
you were seen banning people for posting kitten, puppy and baby ape pictures on multiple occasions. cui bonobo?
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On May 01 2017 19:38 Wtfux wrote:Thanks for this ninazerg - difficult to know where to play and I do feel slightly alone in the dark like on SC2. One of the reasons I quit at the start of HotS and went back to playing WoW because there was no sense of community. Also not impressed with some of the attitudes of people on SB and ICCUP, who seems to be up their own arses, so I may just continue playing UMS on BNET
sadly the BW community is known nowadays in other communities to be one of the most arrogant and the least welcoming towards new players, while having a superiority complex towards other games and players. This is because a good number of the BW players are assholes (like in a lot of other communities). The best thing you can do is look for players around your skill-level by just hosting games and find a practice partner thats not an asshole.
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I don't feel like there are more assholes in the BW community than anywhere else tbh
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Northern Ireland163 Posts
On May 02 2017 00:12 ROOTFayth wrote:
I don't feel like there are more assholes in the BW community than anywhere else tbh
I'd say this is true, and it's more that the community is smaller so you have more opportunities to find them.
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On May 01 2017 23:59 404AlphaSquad wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2017 19:38 Wtfux wrote:Thanks for this ninazerg - difficult to know where to play and I do feel slightly alone in the dark like on SC2. One of the reasons I quit at the start of HotS and went back to playing WoW because there was no sense of community. Also not impressed with some of the attitudes of people on SB and ICCUP, who seems to be up their own arses, so I may just continue playing UMS on BNET sadly the BW community is known nowadays in other communities to be one of the most arrogant and the least welcoming towards new players, while having a superiority complex towards other games and players. This is because a good number of the BW players are assholes (like in a lot of other communities). The best thing you can do is look for players around your skill-level by just hosting games and find a practice partner thats not an asshole.
sorry, but that's just BS. On what are you basing said statement? If you think, the BW scene is not for you, that's okay. But just saying that the scene as a whole is arrogant and has a superioty complex? Most of us are assholes? Get real please. I don't know what your issue is, but people i know are pretty welcoming to new players. Of course some people always are BM, but you find them in every game.
Also: what kind of productive advise is this, when somebody asks how to get into the game? Sooner or later you wanna find some friendly people to hang out with and not only grind laddergames, i guess?
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Great post Nina. Very humanizing and empathetic. TL.net is lucky to have you as a member.
Welcome to all newcomers! BW can be challenging for sure. But it can also be just about having some fun with other "noobs". And big fans of the game usually stick around, no matter what other games is released on the market. So if you invest in BW, you are investing in something permanent. Like Artosis said: "When i'm 70 years old we will be casting SC6 and SC1 lol"
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This post is a nice introduction to Starcraft in general, sure, but I do not understand why you chose to label it as BW for SC2 players. All this talk about builds, mindset and adaptation is perfectly true, but it's so also in SC2. I'd expect that a "BW for SC2 players" post will talk more about the differences in mechanics and also in how the races are played, because the names of the races are the same, but their relations are very different.
Also, ladder is fun for low levels, but only with matchmaking, completely oposite to what you wrote. But that is understandable misunderstanding for a high level player like you.
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On May 01 2017 23:59 404AlphaSquad wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2017 19:38 Wtfux wrote:Thanks for this ninazerg - difficult to know where to play and I do feel slightly alone in the dark like on SC2. One of the reasons I quit at the start of HotS and went back to playing WoW because there was no sense of community. Also not impressed with some of the attitudes of people on SB and ICCUP, who seems to be up their own arses, so I may just continue playing UMS on BNET sadly the BW community is known nowadays in other communities to be one of the most arrogant and the least welcoming towards new players, while having a superiority complex towards other games and players. This is because a good number of the BW players are assholes (like in a lot of other communities). The best thing you can do is look for players around your skill-level by just hosting games and find a practice partner thats not an asshole.
I could maybe see the arrogant thing, some people do have this self-righteousness about BW being the best game of all time. Not an ideal trait, but also doesn't make someone an asshole.
But the rest of your post I have to say is total nonsense. New players are always welcomed, and there are numerous people readily available to help people learning the game. Overall, this community consists of some of the most respectful, geniune people I've had the pleasure of interacting with online. I just...don't even know how to respond to this.
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On May 02 2017 02:49 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2017 23:59 404AlphaSquad wrote:On May 01 2017 19:38 Wtfux wrote:Thanks for this ninazerg - difficult to know where to play and I do feel slightly alone in the dark like on SC2. One of the reasons I quit at the start of HotS and went back to playing WoW because there was no sense of community. Also not impressed with some of the attitudes of people on SB and ICCUP, who seems to be up their own arses, so I may just continue playing UMS on BNET sadly the BW community is known nowadays in other communities to be one of the most arrogant and the least welcoming towards new players, while having a superiority complex towards other games and players. This is because a good number of the BW players are assholes (like in a lot of other communities). The best thing you can do is look for players around your skill-level by just hosting games and find a practice partner thats not an asshole. I could maybe see the arrogant thing, some people do have this self-righteousness about BW being the best game of all time. Not an ideal trait, but also doesn't make someone an asshole. But the rest of your post I have to say is total nonsense. New players are always welcomed, and there are numerous people readily available to help people learning the game. Overall, this community consists of some of the most respectful, geniune people I've had the pleasure of interacting with online. I just...don't even know how to respond to this.
Well, you're both kind of right. The community is just that -- a community. So it's a spectrum of different people. Some people are going to be more welcoming than others.
On May 02 2017 00:48 tanngard wrote:
Great post Nina. Very humanizing and empathetic. TL.net is lucky to have you as a member.
Welcome to all newcomers! BW can be challenging for sure. But it can also be just about having some fun with other "noobs". And big fans of the game usually stick around, no matter what other games is released on the market. So if you invest in BW, you are investing in something permanent. Like Artosis said: "When i'm 70 years old we will be casting SC6 and SC1 lol"
Hey, thanks for this post.
On May 01 2017 17:12 2Pacalypse- wrote:Hey, I go "^^" after (almost) every sentence
I've literally never seen you do that. ^^
On May 01 2017 19:38 Wtfux wrote:Thanks for this ninazerg - difficult to know where to play and I do feel slightly alone in the dark like on SC2. One of the reasons I quit at the start of HotS and went back to playing WoW because there was no sense of community. Also not impressed with some of the attitudes of people on SB and ICCUP, who seems to be up their own arses, so I may just continue playing UMS on BNET
iccup is more of a place to compete, and less for just hanging out with some cool cats. I'm not sure about shieldbattery. It was just kind of getting started and never really had a chance. Well, that's tentative... maybe battle.net will be a colossal fuck-up, and then shieldbattery will become open to the public and will be the place to play.
On May 02 2017 01:14 opisska wrote:
This post is a nice introduction to Starcraft in general, sure, but I do not understand why you chose to label it as BW for SC2 players. All this talk about builds, mindset and adaptation is perfectly true, but it's so also in SC2. I'd expect that a "BW for SC2 players" post will talk more about the differences in mechanics and also in how the races are played, because the names of the races are the same, but their relations are very different.
Also, ladder is fun for low levels, but only with matchmaking, completely oposite to what you wrote. But that is understandable misunderstanding for a high level player like you.
Why are you always so negative about everything?
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United States4883 Posts
For the record, the BW community has been the nicest and most welcoming community I've ever been a part of, especially here at TL.net. <3 you guys, don't know how anyone thinks this community is super elitist or full of assholes.
Even when I get smashed by high level players, they're generally pretty nice and helpful.
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The problem with online communities is the anonymity factor which gives people the excuse for being toxic while ignoring the consequences of it, since SOME would never do that in real life. It's not just in BW. It's in any online game. And the BW community is what Nina said it is... gotta put away the large brush and stop painting the whole group a certain way. In every community there are good and bad fruits.
Anyways, I'm sort of getting off topic here...
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On May 02 2017 04:20 JungleTerrain wrote:
The problem with online communities is the anonymity factor which gives people the excuse for being toxic while ignoring the consequences of it, since SOME would never do that in real life. It's not just in BW. It's in any online game. And the BW community is what Nina said it is... gotta put away the large brush and stop painting the whole group a certain way. In every community there are good and bad fruits.
Anyways, I'm sort of getting off topic here...
I feel like this is an appropriate topic to discuss, to be honest. EsportsJohn said
On May 02 2017 04:04 EsportsJohn wrote:
<3 you guys, don't know how anyone thinks this community is super elitist or full of assholes.
But truthfully, if someone is generally negative, it is easy to decide that a community around them is this or that. It depends on why they're saying BW is full of elitists. I can understand if they hosted a game, then lost and their opponent said, "Wow, you completely suck ass. Why are you playing this game? Anyway, thanks for the free win, scrub." out of the blue. I will definitely say this to someone who joins 20k Hydras and doesn't repair their bunker. Other than that, people usually aren't rude just for no reason.
I've seen a few cases of someone being really stupid and rude, then getting called on it, then saying, "OH BROOD WAR IS FULL OF ELITISTS CUZ I GOT CRITICIZED." Not gonna name names, though.
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On May 02 2017 13:14 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2017 04:20 JungleTerrain wrote:
The problem with online communities is the anonymity factor which gives people the excuse for being toxic while ignoring the consequences of it, since SOME would never do that in real life. It's not just in BW. It's in any online game. And the BW community is what Nina said it is... gotta put away the large brush and stop painting the whole group a certain way. In every community there are good and bad fruits.
Anyways, I'm sort of getting off topic here... I feel like this is an appropriate topic to discuss, to be honest. EsportsJohn said Show nested quote +On May 02 2017 04:04 EsportsJohn wrote:
<3 you guys, don't know how anyone thinks this community is super elitist or full of assholes.
But truthfully, if someone is generally negative, it is easy to decide that a community around them is this or that. It depends on why they're saying BW is full of elitists. I can understand if they hosted a game, then lost and their opponent said, "Wow, you completely suck ass. Why are you playing this game? Anyway, thanks for the free win, scrub." out of the blue. I will definitely say this to someone who joins 20k Hydras and doesn't repair their bunker. Other than that, people usually aren't rude just for no reason. I've seen a few cases of someone being really stupid and rude, then getting called on it, then saying, "OH BROOD WAR IS FULL OF ELITISTS CUZ I GOT CRITICIZED." Not gonna name names, though.
this is the case for any insular community ever, like r/metal is so bad with all the strawmans from noobs going "wow metal is just full of elitists because i said something dumb." btw where does everyone hang out now, is there a skype group or on SB or what
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Good post. This certainly also applies to establish players who want to get better as well....
Don't really like the protoss bits though - new players may take it seriously! I'm sick of playing pvps all the time...
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Broodwar and the online Poker community are so similar it's weird
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I write ^^ after every sentence, does this mean I'm an arsehole?
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On May 02 2017 19:12 HaFnium wrote:
Good post. This certainly also applies to establish players who want to get better as well....
Don't really like the protoss bits though - new players may take it seriously! I'm sick of playing pvps all the time...
PvP "builds character". I think there are too many Zergs and Protosses, though. Moar Terrans needed.
On May 02 2017 22:38 Scaramanga wrote:
I write ^^ after every sentence, does this mean I'm an arsehole?
Possibly ^^
But I don't think you are ^^
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On May 02 2017 23:17 ninazerg wrote:
PvP "builds character". I think there are too many Zergs and Protosses, though. Moar Terrans needed.
Terran is too OP, that's why no one plays it.
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On May 02 2017 00:29 Cele wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2017 23:59 404AlphaSquad wrote:On May 01 2017 19:38 Wtfux wrote:Thanks for this ninazerg - difficult to know where to play and I do feel slightly alone in the dark like on SC2. One of the reasons I quit at the start of HotS and went back to playing WoW because there was no sense of community. Also not impressed with some of the attitudes of people on SB and ICCUP, who seems to be up their own arses, so I may just continue playing UMS on BNET sadly the BW community is known nowadays in other communities to be one of the most arrogant and the least welcoming towards new players, while having a superiority complex towards other games and players. This is because a good number of the BW players are assholes (like in a lot of other communities). The best thing you can do is look for players around your skill-level by just hosting games and find a practice partner thats not an asshole. sorry, but that's just BS. On what are you basing said statement? If you think, the BW scene is not for you, that's okay. But just saying that the scene as a whole is arrogant and has a superioty complex? Most of us are assholes? Get real please. I don't know what your issue is, but people i know are pretty welcoming to new players. Of course some people always are BM, but you find them in every game. Also: what kind of productive advise is this, when somebody asks how to get into the game? Sooner or later you wanna find some friendly people to hang out with and not only grind laddergames, i guess?
Read what I wrote again. I said the BW community is known as being arrogant amongst other communities. Just like LoL and Overwatch is known for being toxic. That doesnt mean every single player you meet in overwatch is gonna be toxic. Alot of BW players I meet have a superiority complex, when they play better than you in BW, you are trash. Seriously I meet people who simply say, that because they are better in BW, they are more intelligent. I remember when I used to play BW 10 years ago in a clan, and how dismissive they were of Wc3 and how it is a noob game, without even ever trying it. I enjoyed both games, but since wc3 isnt bw its automatically an inferior rts. Also the statement you hear from BW players, that every other game is inferior in every way to BW, isnt that uncommon. Seriously outside of the RTS community (and even some of the inside), BW doesnt have a good reputation amongst other players. Ofc I base this statement on my own experience, where else would I pull this from. Its not like i would have read it from a scientific research paper to formulate an objective opinion. Just like you base your statement on your own experience and formulate your subjective opinion.
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On May 02 2017 03:32 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2017 01:14 opisska wrote:
This post is a nice introduction to Starcraft in general, sure, but I do not understand why you chose to label it as BW for SC2 players. All this talk about builds, mindset and adaptation is perfectly true, but it's so also in SC2. I'd expect that a "BW for SC2 players" post will talk more about the differences in mechanics and also in how the races are played, because the names of the races are the same, but their relations are very different.
Also, ladder is fun for low levels, but only with matchmaking, completely oposite to what you wrote. But that is understandable misunderstanding for a high level player like you. Why are you always so negative about everything?
You have a rather specific definition of "negativity". I have provided constructive criticism, I have appreciated the post for being mostly true and only suggested that the topic posed could benefit from a different approach. The only point I explicitly disagreed with you was actually negative on your side and I have expressed an opinion which is more optimistic than yours. If by "negative" you mean "dares to have a different opinion than I" then yes, I am probably pretty negative.
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On May 03 2017 18:10 404AlphaSquad wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2017 00:29 Cele wrote:On May 01 2017 23:59 404AlphaSquad wrote:On May 01 2017 19:38 Wtfux wrote:Thanks for this ninazerg - difficult to know where to play and I do feel slightly alone in the dark like on SC2. One of the reasons I quit at the start of HotS and went back to playing WoW because there was no sense of community. Also not impressed with some of the attitudes of people on SB and ICCUP, who seems to be up their own arses, so I may just continue playing UMS on BNET sadly the BW community is known nowadays in other communities to be one of the most arrogant and the least welcoming towards new players, while having a superiority complex towards other games and players. This is because a good number of the BW players are assholes (like in a lot of other communities). The best thing you can do is look for players around your skill-level by just hosting games and find a practice partner thats not an asshole. sorry, but that's just BS. On what are you basing said statement? If you think, the BW scene is not for you, that's okay. But just saying that the scene as a whole is arrogant and has a superioty complex? Most of us are assholes? Get real please. I don't know what your issue is, but people i know are pretty welcoming to new players. Of course some people always are BM, but you find them in every game. Also: what kind of productive advise is this, when somebody asks how to get into the game? Sooner or later you wanna find some friendly people to hang out with and not only grind laddergames, i guess? Read what I wrote again. I said the BW community is known as being arrogant amongst other communities. Just like LoL and Overwatch is known for being toxic. That doesnt mean every single player you meet in overwatch is gonna be toxic. Alot of BW players I meet have a superiority complex, when they play better than you in BW, you are trash. Seriously I meet people who simply say, that because they are better in BW, they are more intelligent. I remember when I used to play BW 10 years ago in a clan, and how dismissive they were of Wc3 and how it is a noob game, without even ever trying it. I enjoyed both games, but since wc3 isnt bw its automatically an inferior rts. Also the statement you hear from BW players, that every other game is inferior in every way to BW, isnt that uncommon. Seriously outside of the RTS community (and even some of the inside), BW doesnt have a good reputation amongst other players. Ofc I base this statement on my own experience, where else would I pull this from. Its not like i would have read it from a scientific research paper to formulate an objective opinion. Just like you base your statement on your own experience and formulate your subjective opinion.
You can have your personal opinion and experience with the broodwar community, that's fine. I don't ask you tp have scientific proof or whatnot. Same goes for me. I just think your experience with people who hated on you for playing WC3 and who called you noob or told you Broodwar ->>>>>>>>>> all other games
doesn't make it fair to come into the BW Forum here and call the majority of people here assholes with a superiority complex. As to majority complex argument: i don't think that's true. What is true to some degree is that this game has a good percentage of players who have been playing it for a long time. I started playing this game 2007 and i always come back to it. Of course it comes natural to me to say that i like this game better then other RTS? For me personally, it's the best RTS out there and i don't mean to look down on other games by that.
I don't see how that statement is offensive.
I don't see how you think it's not offensive to go to this Fanpage for Sc2 and BW and just declare in the BW Forums that the playerbase is shit in majority. Just because you felt ill treated by some people ten years ago. What's the logic behind that?
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On May 03 2017 20:23 Cele wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2017 18:10 404AlphaSquad wrote:On May 02 2017 00:29 Cele wrote:On May 01 2017 23:59 404AlphaSquad wrote:On May 01 2017 19:38 Wtfux wrote:Thanks for this ninazerg - difficult to know where to play and I do feel slightly alone in the dark like on SC2. One of the reasons I quit at the start of HotS and went back to playing WoW because there was no sense of community. Also not impressed with some of the attitudes of people on SB and ICCUP, who seems to be up their own arses, so I may just continue playing UMS on BNET sadly the BW community is known nowadays in other communities to be one of the most arrogant and the least welcoming towards new players, while having a superiority complex towards other games and players. This is because a good number of the BW players are assholes (like in a lot of other communities). The best thing you can do is look for players around your skill-level by just hosting games and find a practice partner thats not an asshole. sorry, but that's just BS. On what are you basing said statement? If you think, the BW scene is not for you, that's okay. But just saying that the scene as a whole is arrogant and has a superioty complex? Most of us are assholes? Get real please. I don't know what your issue is, but people i know are pretty welcoming to new players. Of course some people always are BM, but you find them in every game. Also: what kind of productive advise is this, when somebody asks how to get into the game? Sooner or later you wanna find some friendly people to hang out with and not only grind laddergames, i guess? Read what I wrote again. I said the BW community is known as being arrogant amongst other communities. Just like LoL and Overwatch is known for being toxic. That doesnt mean every single player you meet in overwatch is gonna be toxic. Alot of BW players I meet have a superiority complex, when they play better than you in BW, you are trash. Seriously I meet people who simply say, that because they are better in BW, they are more intelligent. I remember when I used to play BW 10 years ago in a clan, and how dismissive they were of Wc3 and how it is a noob game, without even ever trying it. I enjoyed both games, but since wc3 isnt bw its automatically an inferior rts. Also the statement you hear from BW players, that every other game is inferior in every way to BW, isnt that uncommon. Seriously outside of the RTS community (and even some of the inside), BW doesnt have a good reputation amongst other players. Ofc I base this statement on my own experience, where else would I pull this from. Its not like i would have read it from a scientific research paper to formulate an objective opinion. Just like you base your statement on your own experience and formulate your subjective opinion. You can have your personal opinion and experience with the broodwar community, that's fine. I don't ask you tp have scientific proof or whatnot. Same goes for me. I just think your experience with people who hated on you for playing WC3 and who called you noob or told you Broodwar ->>>>>>>>>> all other games doesn't make it fair to come into the BW Forum here and call the majority of people here assholes with a superiority complex. As to majority complex argument: i don't think that's true. What is true to some degree is that this game has a good percentage of players who have been playing it for a long time. I started playing this game 2007 and i always come back to it. Of course it comes natural to me to say that i like this game better then other RTS? For me personally, it's the best RTS out there and i don't mean to look down on other games by that. I don't see how that statement is offensive. I don't see how you think it's not offensive to go to this Fanpage for Sc2 and BW and just declare in the BW Forums that the playerbase is shit in majority. Just because you felt ill treated by some people ten years ago.
I have always lurked on this forum cause tl had somewhat of a monopoly when it comes to good BW/sc2 content and discussions on the game. I didnt come to this forum to trash the BW community as you put it. I just replied to a post, pointing out my own experience.
On May 03 2017 20:23 Cele wrote:
Just because you felt ill treated by some people ten years ago.
This isnt the only reason. I dont have this impression because I felt ill treated by some people, but because of the 6+ years I played this game and every second/third interaction I had with other players.
Also you are twisting the words I wrote. I wrote; This is because a good number of the BW players are assholes (like in a lot of other communities). which is true in my experience. I didnt say the playerbase is shit in majority. I dont think its offensive to talk about my personal experiences I have within the playerbase of Brood War from 10 years ago and now, even if you might feel personally offended by it.
Contrary to the original post, I replied to, I have quite a good time in shieldbattery. A shitty time to socialise in normal battle.net and Iccup. When I needed help because a friend of mine lost his password in shieldbattery, I got it immediately from the people hanging out there. And most people playing there want to help/support the BW scene. Shieldbattery however only represents such a small percentage of the community, that it doesnt really factor in compared to the high amount of assholes currently playing the game on battlenet/iccup.
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the biggest jerks are in the hello kitty island 2 adventure mmorpg scene. that's right justin2011 and PaulaPink, bite me.
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On May 02 2017 13:14 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2017 04:20 JungleTerrain wrote:
The problem with online communities is the anonymity factor which gives people the excuse for being toxic while ignoring the consequences of it, since SOME would never do that in real life. It's not just in BW. It's in any online game. And the BW community is what Nina said it is... gotta put away the large brush and stop painting the whole group a certain way. In every community there are good and bad fruits.
Anyways, I'm sort of getting off topic here... I feel like this is an appropriate topic to discuss, to be honest. EsportsJohn said Show nested quote +On May 02 2017 04:04 EsportsJohn wrote:
<3 you guys, don't know how anyone thinks this community is super elitist or full of assholes.
But truthfully, if someone is generally negative, it is easy to decide that a community around them is this or that. It depends on why they're saying BW is full of elitists. I can understand if they hosted a game, then lost and their opponent said, "Wow, you completely suck ass. Why are you playing this game? Anyway, thanks for the free win, scrub." out of the blue. I will definitely say this to someone who joins 20k Hydras and doesn't repair their bunker. Other than that, people usually aren't rude just for no reason. I've seen a few cases of someone being really stupid and rude, then getting called on it, then saying, "OH BROOD WAR IS FULL OF ELITISTS CUZ I GOT CRITICIZED." Not gonna name names, though.
I also think a lot of those ideas about the BW community come from a longer time ago, atleast I remember a couple years ago when I was only lurking, I saw a lot more negative/"hatefull?" comments especially regarding SC2, on reddit also, but also the other way around, which could have given that impression.
Also, we as humans are flawed, if we see 100 positive and nice and welcoming people, but then there is that one asshole that taunts you and... well just behaves like an asshole, then you will remember that one person a lot more, which may lead you to reflect more poorly on the entire community.
Thanks for the cool writeup btw.
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I don't understand where this talk about negativity is coming from where is the negativity? All i see is statements on the article describing what it said...
Anyways ninazerg I'm sure you feel as there are many who were negative but I think they were just their opinion on what they said they werent attacking you on having a bad article just the fact that it was a general conversation about sc not just bw.
But anyways to me whats negative is when someone doesnt have anything constructive to say and doesnt make sense for example on one of my post all you did was come in and say to not spam links to battle.net forums when all I did was cite a source for my post but you never responded as to what you meant by spam you just dropped that and left.
Anyways good post trying to understand your side.
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On May 02 2017 23:17 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2017 19:12 HaFnium wrote:
Good post. This certainly also applies to establish players who want to get better as well....
Don't really like the protoss bits though - new players may take it seriously! I'm sick of playing pvps all the time... PvP "builds character". I think there are too many Zergs and Protosses, though. Moar Terrans needed. Show nested quote +On May 02 2017 22:38 Scaramanga wrote:
I write ^^ after every sentence, does this mean I'm an arsehole? Possibly ^^ But I don't think you are ^^
^^
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EPT
