EPTFighting Spirit Imbalance: Fact or Fiction? - Page 4
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Mirabel_
United States1768 Posts
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prech
United States2948 Posts
On July 29 2015 08:48 VGhost wrote: My tentative hypothesis is that late-game mech (or at least a heavy tank count) has become much more relatively common in post-KeSPA Korean play, which has resulted in Fighting Spirit's relatively easily defended terrain becoming more Terran-friendly. It's not definitive, of course. But it's the naturally-occurring explanation, and certainly warrants further exploration. Though perhaps watching hundreds of games and comparing builds is... time-consuming. Maybe we need to start adding build catalogs to games, analogous to classifying chess games by opening? Such more advanced game information/data would be definitely be very useful for further analysis. It'd be difficult to collect, even if logging just strategies/tactics used, as multiple approaches and variations of those approaches are used all the time, but it'd certainly enable a more sabermetric-ish data dive into what tactics are best suited for each map/match-up/etc rather than relying on, or in addition to, heuristic evaluations  Reminds me of this story in the NY Times about how League of Legends enable players/users to access intricate game data | ||
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HyralGambit
2439 Posts
On July 29 2015 10:41 Mirabel_ wrote: Adding on to what I said already, there's nothing really to learn from this well-written summarized stat-crunching except that we can finally be sure FS is overplayed to the point that its competitive exhaustion is - alongside other factors unrelated to its design - reducing the quality of games played on it. True that. Just compare the average TvZ on Fighting Spirit to the dynamic TvZ on Circuit Breaker. So happy Circuit Breaker is getting more popular these days. | ||
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Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
On July 29 2015 10:41 Mirabel_ wrote: Adding on to what I said already, there's nothing really to learn from this well-written summarized stat-crunching except that we can finally be sure FS is overplayed to the point that its competitive exhaustion is - alongside other factors unrelated to its design - reducing the quality of games played on it. That does feel like the most simple, unassuming conclusion. | ||
Harem
United States11393 Posts
On July 29 2015 11:41 HyralGambit wrote: True that. Just compare the average TvZ on Fighting Spirit to the dynamic TvZ on Circuit Breaker. So happy Circuit Breaker is getting more popular these days. Circuit is even worse for zerg than FS is. | ||
c3rberUs
Japan11892 Posts
I did some research on this. Since the start of April this year, TvZ is quite balance with zerg actually ahead by a game. | ||
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Harem
United States11393 Posts
On July 29 2015 14:45 c3rberUs wrote: I did some research on this. Since the start of April this year, TvZ is quite balance with zerg actually ahead by a game. http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/70545-korean-map-stats-worthless | ||
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HyralGambit
2439 Posts
Artosis thinks SC2 is more strategic than BW. Artosis' opinions are worthless. But Circuit Breaker seems to favor mutas and guardian play. Granted the double bridges are better for Terran defensively, but mutas control them well and pre-defiler timings are less deadly. The mineral only third seems more exposed and areas to drop (Zerg drops) are numerous as well. | ||
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duyhotan2000
Vietnam39 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10578 Posts
I think, by using Artosis logic, wouldn't every map at the time be Terran favored? And if Terrans really are supreme right now, wouldn't that mean every map should be Terran favored in a TvZ? But as I pointed that out, it's simply not the case. | ||
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JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
On July 29 2015 00:21 FlaShFTW wrote: Mech switches were beginning to take rise in the late KeSPA era. But late game turtle with mass tanks was always in the meta (see the FlaSh vs Calm gif) Yes but was it done almost every game and so early like in post-kespa? I think an analysis is needed, though it'll take a lot of effort. | ||
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amazingxkcd
GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
ahaha, incontrol's posts are funny to read | ||
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bITt.mAN
Switzerland3701 Posts
link | ||
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538
Hungary3932 Posts
On July 30 2015 02:40 bITt.mAN wrote: About that giant FS screenshot wallpaper, I bumped the original thread, but it doesn't show up cuz it's in blogs (and I suspect most people don't browse blogs through the sub-forum menu), so, can anyone deliver, please? link I'll deliver  give me a few days to dig up the original! (I'm still welcoming recommendations for good hosts for truly HD pictures like this, I'm afraid imgur still wouldn't take it verbatim)Great write-up, and thanks for the image attribution! It was quite a surprise to see it on the frontpage after all these years. | ||
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prech
United States2948 Posts
On July 30 2015 06:04 538 wrote: I'll deliver give me a few days to dig up the original! (I'm still welcoming recommendations for good hosts for truly HD pictures like this, I'm afraid imgur still wouldn't take it verbatim)Great write-up, and thanks for the image attribution! It was quite a surprise to see it on the frontpage after all these years. Not sure if there's an even higher resolution version, but here's the 4096px one on Mega http://bit.ly/FightingSpirit4k | ||
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ghrur
United States3786 Posts
Also, does TL have historical ELO? Like, can I get the ELOs of JD and Flash before they played their game on FS in the Bigfile MSL final? | ||
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
On July 30 2015 11:11 prech wrote: Not sure if there's an even higher resolution version, but here's the 4096px one on Mega http://bit.ly/FightingSpirit4k I think 4096x4096 is the highest you can get for a map that size, right? I mean, FS is 128x128 matrix, and each matrix is 32x32 pixels. IIRC. So 128x32 = 4096 pixels... 4096x4096 should capture every pixel. If it's higher-rez than that, it got up-sampled or Photoshopped something? | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10578 Posts
On July 31 2015 10:06 ghrur wrote: Does anybody know how the ELO system for SC:BW worked? For example, if Flash had a TvZ Elo of 2350 and Zero had a ZvT Elo of 2261, what's the estimated probability that Flash beats Hero? Is it based on Normal distribution? Logistic distribution? Also, does TL have historical ELO? Like, can I get the ELOs of JD and Flash before they played their game on FS in the Bigfile MSL final? if you get the date of the series, you could click on the past elo ranking and find the date/month that you want. then just update it to the next day after the finals was played and you'll have the updated elo rank i think? I'm not entirely sure. Also nice to know this thread has been highjacked by Fighting Spirit artwork. I find nothing wrong with that ^^ Carry on. No but seriously that art is beautiful I want a poster of it in my room. | ||
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Wintex
Norway16849 Posts
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iFU.pauline
France1779 Posts
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