I believe if played correctly it might actually work! (referring to old Yosh replays) though it is very easily countered by mass expanding and upgraded hydra because it is very hard to taking out expos with gollies. What do you think? Is it a viable strat or just skip it and build m&m? At least Nada pulled it off against Yellow... Hmm oh yes, but im not Nada.

Liquid`Jinro

Sweden33719 Posts

June 06 2003 04:13 GMT

Bachanic gogogo - -;

Grotfang

Belgium490 Posts

June 06 2003 04:14 GMT

I tried it vs bejjang

but if you're unlucky it just fails. The important thing is that you prevent your opponent from noticing it early game, because if he starts out with spire -> upgrading mutas -> mass mutas he will own anything that comes out of a factory. I tried it vs bejjang

and he didn't see it but he switched to spire and mass upgraded muta anyway, killing me outright of course.

you can go valkyries vs the mutas but hell, that's just too damn expensive for you and he will simply forfait his upgrades and switch to hydra -> gg

by the way it's not easy to counter with mass hydra, tanks own hydras any day, and lurkers just suck against anything (both gols and tanks)

so to answer your question, in my opinion it's not a very viable "main strat" because if the zerg sees you doing it, you're dead. (no really, no matter who you are, if the zerg plays decent you are dead, dead, dead) on the other hand if the zerg DOESNT see it AND you aren't mass unlucky that he switches to muta for no reason THEN you have a decent chance of pulling it off

rplant

United States1178 Posts

June 06 2003 04:45 GMT

God, if it's that hard, why even bother trying? Are there any advantages to going metal vs. z?

TanGo

Sweden1019 Posts

June 06 2003 04:49 GMT

you dont need that good micro vs lurkers with tech so thats about it :D and gollies rule lings ^_-

ToKoreaWithLove

Norway10161 Posts

June 06 2003 05:10 GMT

2 gas muta > 1 gas gols (3 fac). 1 base 2 hatch mutaling is also tought to fight (early on) unless you have good micro.

Mech is imho viable on maps where zerg can't get a quick gas exp (e.g it was popular on jungle story in coca-cola).

If you do fast exp you can pull out a few valks, and then the tables turn - zerg will have to mass you. On the other hand, he will most likely have 642785 exps and mass you.

So .. mech dosnt seem like a very viable option at top levels.

InFiNitY[pG]

Germany3474 Posts

June 06 2003 05:12 GMT

hellghost has a nice metal tvz. and the obvious advantage is that you can keep up with the zerg economywise,

Waxangel

United States33643 Posts

June 06 2003 05:42 GMT

just avoid the 1 gas gols vs 2 gas mutas situation and it won't die outright ;(

esk0

Sweden1393 Posts

June 06 2003 05:56 GMT

nada did this vs chojja in some important game i believe.
and won

Ra1L

Spain290 Posts

June 06 2003 06:05 GMT

#10

On June 06 2003 14:56 esk0 wrote:
nada did this vs chojja in some important game i believe.
and won

nada vs chojja on bifrost (ongamenet finals i think).
chojja was winning the game but he lost all of his army making such a huge mistake in a fight.

HurtnTime

United States296 Posts

June 06 2003 07:27 GMT

#11

expo early and metal is fine. you need 2 gas asap. how you do this? spider mines.

x[ReaPeR]x

United States3447 Posts

June 06 2003 07:42 GMT

#12

In the Nada vs Yell0w game Nada did a really quick expo to his natural and went 3 fact gols. The extra gas was a help im sure.

Liquid`Drone

Norway28831 Posts

June 06 2003 08:07 GMT

#13

guard+hydra is pretty sweet ^_^

me vs hg in teamliquid tourney features him metaling tvz on forbidden zone, maybe i'll post the rep if im feeling nice

Day[9]

United States7366 Posts

June 06 2003 08:52 GMT

#14

Metal only works on the right and top positions on temple. Although you can win early game by suprising the zerg from any spot, only the right and north positions can last into the late game. The North and Right positions can do the curve around expansions and take the other main with relative ease. Another note... a successful mech vs Z is a relatively passive build. Just sit and build gols+tanks+valks depending on what the Z is doing. I don't really play terran, but my Z is pretty strong vs T mech. The only times i do lose are when a terran plays passive and expands as i explained.

HovZ

United States1917 Posts

June 06 2003 09:31 GMT

#15

ummm metal sucks v zerg plain out, the only reason u should even give metal any consideration is if zerg 1 bases. but for all intents and purposes, mm is better in every single way

iD.Twisted

Netherlands3102 Posts

June 06 2003 09:57 GMT

#16

vs lurker rush tech rox hard. Go fast mines + exp, then more fact :o

Ace

United States16096 Posts

June 06 2003 10:03 GMT

#17

how about some of you get some balls and stop saying it sucks outright and try to get better at using it. YOSH did not play newbie Zerg players 100% of the time, and you said it yourself that Nada made it work more than once in important games. How about just harassing Zerg with gollie drop or vulture drop until your expo comes online, turret your CCs and then get aggresive.

bi11y

United States169 Posts

June 06 2003 10:45 GMT

#18

ok, now help on p

T_T

pyogenes

Brazil1401 Posts

June 06 2003 10:46 GMT

#19

i think it is viable but only if he doesnt notice it till you are well in full swing. if he sees it and muta rushes you or lurker rushes you it can be over pretty quick.

im no gosu, but i did this vs a friend and it worked. i was 9 he was 3 on LT.

with the 9 position you can use a barracks and a depot to wall and zerglings cannot go through. but on 12 3 and 6 with the standard 2 depot 1 barracks build zerglings will get through.

Suicide

United States475 Posts

June 06 2003 11:46 GMT

#20

Personally, I believe mech is very viable, but contrary to popular belief, if your meching and you see 2 gas mutas, get a group or two of mnm to go along with your goliath tank and you should have the game in a decent grasp. I often find myself meching vs Z after a fast Tank MnM Push because its unexpected and it pretty much owns them but is very do-able with your faster than normal factory. If the fast Tank push does what its suppose to, it stops the second gas and would most likely force them to get lurkers to be more cost effective with there gas.

But, maybe I am wrong, and throughout this paragraph I have made no coherent thoughts, it's up to you.

Vicious)Soul

United States857 Posts

June 07 2003 00:26 GMT

#21

I just played a guy in my clan, and he pulled a terran mech against me. 3(me) and 9 on LT. I made alot of mistakes, but mostly because I had no idea what to do against the mass of golis/tanks/turrets at my choke and goin up pretty quick. He had every important part of his base filled with turrets so muta rush was off. I guess I made a mistake from the start and went for mass muta first over hydras but I see how this strat can work really well.

SuperCod

United States337 Posts

June 07 2003 00:29 GMT

#22

one advantage of metal is that its sooo much easier to control and execute than mm+tank =]

halpmeh

United States333 Posts

June 07 2003 00:35 GMT

#23

it's fine short of the very best players

there's even a replay of a br.com guy beating dreame with it, but of course he's a notorious hydra/lurk player

anyway if u can force 2 gas you can get a few valks np and you definitely won't die outright =[

-angel

B.GoD_AnGRY

Chile334 Posts

June 07 2003 01:14 GMT

#24

i usually 2 facts vs 1 hatch early pool zergs..because thats means 90% lurker rush...then go mines, by the time he switch to mutas or mass hydras, u could have goli tank or m&m, works for me 65/35%, requires good timing

Waxangel

United States33643 Posts

June 07 2003 01:15 GMT

#25

On June 06 2003 17:07 Liquid`Drone wrote:
guard+hydra is pretty sweet ^_^

me vs hg in teamliquid tourney features him metaling tvz on forbidden zone, maybe i'll post the rep if im feeling nice

what if we say "fuck you", and you be useful :O?

ZyPhReX

1192 Posts

June 07 2003 01:21 GMT

#26

lol

HovZ

United States1917 Posts

June 07 2003 08:45 GMT

#27

On June 07 2003 09:26 Vicious)Soul wrote:
I just played a guy in my clan, and he pulled a terran mech against me. 3(me) and 9 on LT. I made alot of mistakes, but mostly because I had no idea what to do against the mass of golis/tanks/turrets at my choke and goin up pretty quick. He had every important part of his base filled with turrets so muta rush was off. I guess I made a mistake from the start and went for mass muta first over hydras but I see how this strat can work really well.

if he had that many turrets then his army would be relativly weak and u could walk over him....muta should never lose to mech, if u do then u rly need rpactice

InFiNitY[pG]

Germany3474 Posts

June 07 2003 11:28 GMT

#28

when yosh played it he was almost the only player to use this strat on a high level and nobody knew how to counter it effectively. but then there was a replay vs h_paul_w (i think) who owned him hard with muta/hydra mass expanding and soon everyone knew about it