• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 05:13
CEST 11:13
KST 18:13
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play1Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview8
Community News
[TLMC] Summer 2026 Ladder Map Rotation05.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start)75ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo31Weekly Cups (June 8-14): Clem and Solar double, PTR tested0RSL: S6 Finals played at BlizzCon 202611
StarCraft 2
General
5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start) Is the larve respawn broken? The Death of Cheese: From a Professional Cheeser Mizenhauer's Douyu Cup Preview ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play
Tourneys
Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event INu's Battles#17 <BO.9> Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 531 Experimental Artillery Mutation # 530 One For All Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed
Brood War
General
ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool Farewell Beloved Starcraft (Youtube Videos) BW General Discussion vespene.gg — BW replays in browser Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ?
Tourneys
[ASL21] Grand Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues The Casual Games of the Week Thread [BSL22] GosuLeague Casts - Tue & Thu 22:00 CEST
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies Why doesn't anyone use restoration?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
The Games Industry And ATVI US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 McBoner: A hockey love story Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Listen To The Coaches!
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8449 users

Yesterday's Draco afreeca replays. - Page 2

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 Next All
IriS[YY]
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
China330 Posts
July 06 2006 16:06 GMT
#21
Anyone knows Perfective's aka?
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33719 Posts
Last Edited: 2006-07-06 18:34:15
July 06 2006 18:33 GMT
#22
On July 06 2006 23:14 jG]BeefcakeS wrote:
Once your at the pro level, you either learn to compensate for gay stuff, or start to suck. Look at the zergs that die, They just cant realise that 4 sunks and 12 lings wont save their asses.

........

Yeah, I'm sure that's why some zergs don't succeed ..

Thx for the reps, HonesTea.
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
superjoppe2
Profile Joined July 2006
Sweden56 Posts
July 06 2006 18:40 GMT
#23
thanks for the replays HT! (is that what we should call u?)
WiljushkA
Profile Joined March 2006
Serbia1416 Posts
July 06 2006 19:57 GMT
#24
call him honesty, that is his name :p
"As much as I love the image of me F5-ing paypal every 15 minutes while fist pumping and screaming "SHIP THE MONEY BITCHES"" - Day9
ROOTheognis
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States4482 Posts
July 06 2006 20:06 GMT
#25
On July 07 2006 01:06 IriS[YY] wrote:
Anyone knows Perfective's aka?


hanzo[fou]
If you avoid your weakness, it will remain your weakness. www.twitter.com/#!/rootheognis Follow me!
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33719 Posts
July 06 2006 20:08 GMT
#26
On July 07 2006 05:06 YoiChiBow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2006 01:06 IriS[YY] wrote:
Anyone knows Perfective's aka?


hanzo[fou]

You mean Hanjo[fou], no?
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
NonYold
Profile Joined April 2004
United States2814 Posts
July 06 2006 21:13 GMT
#27
On July 06 2006 21:39 YoiChiBow wrote:
gg's

but no offense ..draco's pvt isnt very good.( better than foreigners yes but that wont cut it in korea)

watch his games... he doesnt have a strong grasp on timing... he goes 5 gate always before his 2nd nat everygame.(cept that luna game vs perfective.. i think he went 6 gate ... and fell behind cuz of that).

No adapting at all.


his gates were fine. there's more than one way to play pvt and his way is probably better than yours. if you're so presumptuous that you "know" why pros are or arent successful at pvt, then you're an idiot
Jathin
Profile Blog Joined February 2005
United States3505 Posts
July 06 2006 21:22 GMT
#28
--- Nuked ---
RivetHead
Profile Joined March 2005
United States842 Posts
July 06 2006 22:32 GMT
#29
On July 07 2006 06:22 Jathin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2006 06:13 NonY wrote:
On July 06 2006 21:39 YoiChiBow wrote:
gg's

but no offense ..draco's pvt isnt very good.( better than foreigners yes but that wont cut it in korea)

watch his games... he doesnt have a strong grasp on timing... he goes 5 gate always before his 2nd nat everygame.(cept that luna game vs perfective.. i think he went 6 gate ... and fell behind cuz of that).

No adapting at all.


his gates were fine. there's more than one way to play pvt and his way is probably better than yours. if you're so presumptuous that you "know" why pros are or arent successful at pvt, then you're an idiot


Way to suck logic straight out of the game. You can be far worse than Draco but still be in a position to say what he did right/wrong, as long as you have an understanding of the game. Isn't that the job of the commentators?

It's also easy to tell where a pro-gamer messed up. So "knowing" why pros are or aren't successful is easy to deduce after observing them enough. It's not like he said any one specific aspect of Draco's play is the sole source of failure (he said "timing," a rather broad statement).

And for the record, adaptability is a huge problem for pro-gamers. They seem to stick to the one build order/strategy they practiced because they're very comfortable with it. I also agree that Draco's PvT timing isn't where it needs to be to compete. Maybe he needs to play several games as a Terran to fully understand the timing.

Whether or not the timing on his gates were fine or not is up for debate, but to use "I think Draco would know best because he's better than you" is just ignorance speaking. Attitudes like that make me wonder if people really appreciate SC/Pro-Gaming, because if you take the standpoint that pro's are infallible then you're kind of just watching shit happen without thinking about the strategies behind it.


the problem seems to be you are making a judgement of his whole pvt matchup and timing off of one game. he might have been jet lagged, tired, not taking it as serious as possible, or just having an off game.

another problem with your criticism is that you make its always so easy to see why someone loses. sure its easy to say draco got run over by superior macro and timing the game he lost, but then again why did he win the second game and his macro was fine. he adjusted to the opponant certaintly, but he also seemed to just play better in general the second game. maybe he wasnt warmed up or something.

sometimes its easy to spot mistakes progamers (or anyone, for that matter) make. we could say "oh damn, terran should have scanned for those stargates and found out carriers were coming before it was too late" and other such things when in fact the terran may have scanned everywhere but that one spot. other times, it doesnt seem to be so obvious why someone lost other than the victor was just better in some way that cant be seen so easily (better micro, slightly better macro, or just good timing)

of course you can watch the rep over and over again to see all the little things draco did wrong, which is most of the time the reason why would lose, because he isnt as good at doing at 100 little things at a time as progamers and doing something like putting up pylons too late or getting an upgrade too fast or taking a little too long to transfer workers.
I *heart* bisu, nada, mind, and the lakers
Jathin
Profile Blog Joined February 2005
United States3505 Posts
Last Edited: 2006-07-06 22:50:52
July 06 2006 22:48 GMT
#30
--- Nuked ---
Live2Win *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States6657 Posts
July 06 2006 23:30 GMT
#31
On July 07 2006 00:11 bine wrote:
does anyone know specifically what the deal was on draco losing a game and being given a regame? was that just because they liked him, or did something happen?

also, any more details on this baba tournament or whatever it is would be great. i'm eager to know how/what draco and suncow are doing in korea.


when I was watching the game on Afreeca, the guy who was commentating was talking about a babara starleague, and the winner of this match goes to the finals.

I guess a tourney thingy and it was bo3?
SAY YES TO STIM KIDS!!! XD
bine
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
United States2352 Posts
July 07 2006 00:10 GMT
#32
On July 07 2006 08:30 Live2Win wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2006 00:11 bine wrote:
does anyone know specifically what the deal was on draco losing a game and being given a regame? was that just because they liked him, or did something happen?

also, any more details on this baba tournament or whatever it is would be great. i'm eager to know how/what draco and suncow are doing in korea.


when I was watching the game on Afreeca, the guy who was commentating was talking about a babara starleague, and the winner of this match goes to the finals.

I guess a tourney thingy and it was bo3?


ahh, OK. seems weird to me that they gave draco a free regame. If I were him I would have vigorously refused being treated any differently than anyone else. w/e, it'll be cool to see him in the finals.
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
July 07 2006 00:17 GMT
#33
but they only played 2 games? I guess they finish it later?
bine
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
United States2352 Posts
July 07 2006 00:22 GMT
#34
On July 07 2006 09:17 {88}iNcontroL's signature was:
tyranids rock.


hahaha

when hurricane isabelle wreaked havoc on virginia when i was in highschool, our power was out for like a week. we dug out the ancient 40k armies we had and played for hours... it was so great.

the parallels to SC are striking though. aesthetically, toss is very similar to Eldar (dark eldar/DT, high eldar/HT etc.), tyranid is like identical to zerg, and come on, Space Marines? Even Chaos was like infested terrans.
ROOTheognis
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States4482 Posts
Last Edited: 2006-07-07 00:33:10
July 07 2006 00:31 GMT
#35
On July 07 2006 07:32 RivetHead wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2006 06:22 Jathin wrote:
On July 07 2006 06:13 NonY wrote:
On July 06 2006 21:39 YoiChiBow wrote:
gg's

but no offense ..draco's pvt isnt very good.( better than foreigners yes but that wont cut it in korea)

watch his games... he doesnt have a strong grasp on timing... he goes 5 gate always before his 2nd nat everygame.(cept that luna game vs perfective.. i think he went 6 gate ... and fell behind cuz of that).

No adapting at all.


his gates were fine. there's more than one way to play pvt and his way is probably better than yours. if you're so presumptuous that you "know" why pros are or arent successful at pvt, then you're an idiot


Way to suck logic straight out of the game. You can be far worse than Draco but still be in a position to say what he did right/wrong, as long as you have an understanding of the game. Isn't that the job of the commentators?

It's also easy to tell where a pro-gamer messed up. So "knowing" why pros are or aren't successful is easy to deduce after observing them enough. It's not like he said any one specific aspect of Draco's play is the sole source of failure (he said "timing," a rather broad statement).

And for the record, adaptability is a huge problem for pro-gamers. They seem to stick to the one build order/strategy they practiced because they're very comfortable with it. I also agree that Draco's PvT timing isn't where it needs to be to compete. Maybe he needs to play several games as a Terran to fully understand the timing.

Whether or not the timing on his gates were fine or not is up for debate, but to use "I think Draco would know best because he's better than you" is just ignorance speaking. Attitudes like that make me wonder if people really appreciate SC/Pro-Gaming, because if you take the standpoint that pro's are infallible then you're kind of just watching shit happen without thinking about the strategies behind it.


the problem seems to be you are making a judgement of his whole pvt matchup and timing off of one game. he might have been jet lagged, tired, not taking it as serious as possible, or just having an off game.

another problem with your criticism is that you make its always so easy to see why someone loses. sure its easy to say draco got run over by superior macro and timing the game he lost, but then again why did he win the second game and his macro was fine. he adjusted to the opponant certaintly, but he also seemed to just play better in general the second game. maybe he wasnt warmed up or something.

sometimes its easy to spot mistakes progamers (or anyone, for that matter) make. we could say "oh damn, terran should have scanned for those stargates and found out carriers were coming before it was too late" and other such things when in fact the terran may have scanned everywhere but that one spot. other times, it doesnt seem to be so obvious why someone lost other than the victor was just better in some way that cant be seen so easily (better micro, slightly better macro, or just good timing)

of course you can watch the rep over and over again to see all the little things draco did wrong, which is most of the time the reason why would lose, because he isnt as good at doing at 100 little things at a time as progamers and doing something like putting up pylons too late or getting an upgrade too fast or taking a little too long to transfer workers.



im basing this off of the pvt's ive seen off of draco in the past year. he does the same timing no matter if the Terran goes fast expo or a joyo.
If you avoid your weakness, it will remain your weakness. www.twitter.com/#!/rootheognis Follow me!
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33719 Posts
Last Edited: 2006-07-07 00:34:40
July 07 2006 00:34 GMT
#36
Yea, I agree, I don't think Draco's PvsT is good at all (>>>compared to his PvZ<<< )
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
July 07 2006 00:35 GMT
#37
On July 07 2006 09:22 bine wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2006 09:17 {88}iNcontroL's signature was:
tyranids rock.


hahaha

when hurricane isabelle wreaked havoc on virginia when i was in highschool, our power was out for like a week. we dug out the ancient 40k armies we had and played for hours... it was so great.

the parallels to SC are striking though. aesthetically, toss is very similar to Eldar (dark eldar/DT, high eldar/HT etc.), tyranid is like identical to zerg, and come on, Space Marines? Even Chaos was like infested terrans.


SC is a complete robbery of War Hammer 40,000. Lings look EXACTLY like Gaunts and act basically the same way. The whole "Overmind" concept is completely "The Mind in the Warp" and how the Cerebrates / Overmind control the armies through the mind? Sooooooooo completely blatant.

It gets worse with Space Marines (didnt even change the name from the WH40K Space Marines).
And yeah Eldar --> Protoss so hard core. I dont blame Blizzard though. War hammer is fucking awsome and as far as original ideas go for races WH has done an incredible job.
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33719 Posts
July 07 2006 00:51 GMT
#38
On July 07 2006 09:35 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2006 09:22 bine wrote:
On July 07 2006 09:17 {88}iNcontroL's signature was:
tyranids rock.


hahaha

when hurricane isabelle wreaked havoc on virginia when i was in highschool, our power was out for like a week. we dug out the ancient 40k armies we had and played for hours... it was so great.

the parallels to SC are striking though. aesthetically, toss is very similar to Eldar (dark eldar/DT, high eldar/HT etc.), tyranid is like identical to zerg, and come on, Space Marines? Even Chaos was like infested terrans.


SC is a complete robbery of War Hammer 40,000. Lings look EXACTLY like Gaunts and act basically the same way. The whole "Overmind" concept is completely "The Mind in the Warp" and how the Cerebrates / Overmind control the armies through the mind? Sooooooooo completely blatant.

It gets worse with Space Marines (didnt even change the name from the WH40K Space Marines).
And yeah Eldar --> Protoss so hard core. I dont blame Blizzard though. War hammer is fucking awsome and as far as original ideas go for races WH has done an incredible job.

Ye, and Xel'naga = old ones?

Anyhow - A LOT of warhammer is obviously borrowed from alien / predator and the original book behind starship troopers
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
July 07 2006 00:56 GMT
#39
his pvt is good in certain situations, but he cant adapt. in the big long macro war games where hes able to get a nice economy running its good, but against timing pushes and the like he suffers.
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
July 07 2006 02:05 GMT
#40
On July 07 2006 09:51 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2006 09:35 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
On July 07 2006 09:22 bine wrote:
On July 07 2006 09:17 {88}iNcontroL's signature was:
tyranids rock.


hahaha

when hurricane isabelle wreaked havoc on virginia when i was in highschool, our power was out for like a week. we dug out the ancient 40k armies we had and played for hours... it was so great.

the parallels to SC are striking though. aesthetically, toss is very similar to Eldar (dark eldar/DT, high eldar/HT etc.), tyranid is like identical to zerg, and come on, Space Marines? Even Chaos was like infested terrans.


SC is a complete robbery of War Hammer 40,000. Lings look EXACTLY like Gaunts and act basically the same way. The whole "Overmind" concept is completely "The Mind in the Warp" and how the Cerebrates / Overmind control the armies through the mind? Sooooooooo completely blatant.

It gets worse with Space Marines (didnt even change the name from the WH40K Space Marines).
And yeah Eldar --> Protoss so hard core. I dont blame Blizzard though. War hammer is fucking awsome and as far as original ideas go for races WH has done an incredible job.

Ye, and Xel'naga = old ones?

Anyhow - A LOT of warhammer is obviously borrowed from alien / predator and the original book behind starship troopers


War Hammer is almost 30 years old whereas Aliens / Predator was made in early 80's. Original book for Star Ship troopers originated MOST of the swarming alien concepts that are seen in science fiction. Star Ship troopers originated some concepts for perhaps Tyranids -> Aliens -> Zerg but nothing really more.
Prev 1 2 3 4 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Douyu Cup 2020
05:00
2026 - Day 3
WardiTV1205
Ryung 1061
RotterdaM403
CranKy Ducklings309
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Ryung 1061
RotterdaM 403
ProTech157
SortOf 82
StarCraft: Brood War
Larva 302
Soma 242
Leta 214
BeSt 99
Mind 61
ggaemo 56
Sharp 24
Killer 18
soO 18
Aegong 14
Dota 2
XaKoH 496
Counter-Strike
kRYSTAL_60
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor179
Other Games
Pyrionflax78
crisheroes24
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick726
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 17
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP16
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos2415
• Lourlo1064
Upcoming Events
Maestros of the Game
3h 17m
herO vs Classic
Maru vs Serral
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
4h 47m
Bonyth vs TerrOr
eOnzErG vs Dewalt
XuanXuan vs TBD
Douyu Cup 2020
19h 47m
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
1d 4h
Mihu vs TBD
Online Event
1d 5h
RSL Revival
1d 16h
WardiTV Weekly
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Bombastic Starleague
3 days
[ Show More ]
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
OSC
4 days
CrankTV Team League
5 days
Bombastic Starleague
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
HomeStory Cup
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 21: Qualifier 1
WardiTV Spring 2026
Heroes Pulsing #2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
SCTL 2026 Spring
Douyu Cup 2026
Maestros of the Game 2
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026

Upcoming

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
BCC 2026
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E1
Heroes Pulsing #3
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.