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Mentos
United Kingdom203 Posts
he had his units divided in the moment terran pushed to the south expos, and it was already too late to gather it up and fight off. thats the moment where he lost the game, up to then it was even. he uses a lot of build orders vs t. atm, if I was him, I'd use the safest one to test what those guys can do. once he gets used to their style of play, he will be able to adapt something else, right now its impossible. | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
Sometimes it is easy to see where someone fails -- where someone fails to capitalize on a hole in his opponent's timing, where someone just has bad luck (scouts wrong direction and opponent cheeses on a large map, so doesn't see cheese until way too late), or where somebody's mechanics (control, macro, w/e) just aren't as good. But often times it's little things that compose themselves into a steady lead. Sometimes still a player does absolutely nothing wrong and loses because his opponent won the build war. And then people on tl.net have the nerve to say retarded things like "so-and-so's build was horrible," blah blah blah blah blah. They don't understand why the progamer chose the build because they don't have the insight to understand all the options the progamer's opponent had and how that particular build countered those options. Consider Boxer vs Pusan in this past OSL. Pusan went FE into DT's. Boxer used a fact/acad/fact build. Boxer won, so everyone on tl.net said Boxer was a genius and Pusan was retarded for using that build. Had Pusan won, everyone would have said Boxer was retarded and Pusan was a genius. The people making those remarks really have that crappy an understanding of the game. The reality is just like Boxer said. Boxer lost in build orders and won in strategy (the strategy of getting faster scan at the cost of a slightly reduced army). Sometimes that just happens and its nobody's "fault." | ||
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KorvspaD
Sweden468 Posts
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Mentos
United Kingdom203 Posts
they train given map and matchup for countless hours, mastering the builds to the seconds vs opponents with different styles of play. take boxer vs yellow games long time ago, where boxer owned yellow practically only with bunker rushes. he wanted to take the game to micro stage, as he knew he would outplay yellow in that. yellow didnt want to play his cards, so in 2nd game he went hatch expo as well, knowing that boxer would probably bunker rush. he STILL lost the game, and iirc he lost 3rd game to bunker rush in those series as well. boxer just timed those to perfection, normal player cant say what yellow did wrong, you can only say that he should've played 12 spawn, but maybe yellow knew that if he had played it, he would've lost as well? maybe he had his own tacts set up and trained for those maps, and wanted to apply them, because he knew others wouldnt work vs opponent like boxer? trying to act all cool from observers place, saying that you have all the game mechanics and everything downed up and in head is stupid. ppl like this should get off the high horse, and notice how superior understanding of this game a progamer has. watching replays alone wont suffice to understand it. | ||
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Jathin
United States3505 Posts
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ROOTheognis
United States4482 Posts
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Clemens21
United States102 Posts
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Mickey
United States2606 Posts
On July 06 2006 22:43 zulu_nation8 wrote: yea but how hard is pvt compared to pvz at pro level, pj still cant pvz after a year or so while having world class pvt. I think Draco will have a much easier time because of that Me 2. Draco has a huge amount of potential. He always impresses me in his games. | ||
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bearnet2001
Argentina335 Posts
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On July 07 2006 11:05 {88}iNcontroL wrote: War Hammer is almost 30 years old whereas Aliens / Predator was made in early 80's. Original book for Star Ship troopers originated MOST of the swarming alien concepts that are seen in science fiction. Star Ship troopers originated some concepts for perhaps Tyranids -> Aliens -> Zerg but nothing really more. Released in 1987, the name was sub-titled 'Warhammer 40,000' in order to clearly differentiate it from 2000 AD's Rogue Trooper comic series. The game featured rules that were closely modelled on those of its older sister, Warhammer Fantasy Battle. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_Trader_(Warhammer_40,000) | ||
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On July 07 2006 11:15 Mentos wrote: he failed in the first game because of sloppy scouting, not build order, timing, or micro/macro. he had his units divided in the moment terran pushed to the south expos, and it was already too late to gather it up and fight off. thats the moment where he lost the game, up to then it was even. he uses a lot of build orders vs t. atm, if I was him, I'd use the safest one to test what those guys can do. once he gets used to their style of play, he will be able to adapt something else, right now its impossible. I think he lost the game on rush hour because he had way too few probes. | ||
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On July 07 2006 11:34 Mortality wrote: Easy to see where progamers mess up? I'd say that's far from true. Sometimes it is easy to see where someone fails -- where someone fails to capitalize on a hole in his opponent's timing, where someone just has bad luck (scouts wrong direction and opponent cheeses on a large map, so doesn't see cheese until way too late), or where somebody's mechanics (control, macro, w/e) just aren't as good. But often times it's little things that compose themselves into a steady lead. Sometimes still a player does absolutely nothing wrong and loses because his opponent won the build war. And then people on tl.net have the nerve to say retarded things like "so-and-so's build was horrible," blah blah blah blah blah. They don't understand why the progamer chose the build because they don't have the insight to understand all the options the progamer's opponent had and how that particular build countered those options. Consider Boxer vs Pusan in this past OSL. Pusan went FE into DT's. Boxer used a fact/acad/fact build. Boxer won, so everyone on tl.net said Boxer was a genius and Pusan was retarded for using that build. Had Pusan won, everyone would have said Boxer was retarded and Pusan was a genius. The people making those remarks really have that crappy an understanding of the game. The reality is just like Boxer said. Boxer lost in build orders and won in strategy (the strategy of getting faster scan at the cost of a slightly reduced army). Sometimes that just happens and its nobody's "fault." Huh? I'm almost certain that's not what boxer said.. IIRC he said the build he used worked very well vs that specifically.. Anyway, how is a fast academy not part of your build order? | ||
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ROOTheognis
United States4482 Posts
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sdpgposd
United Kingdom1464 Posts
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On July 07 2006 13:05 Jathin wrote: Trust me, Pusan didn't make a mistake in the So1 semifinals when he lost all his units to Boxer's army in ROV, despite the fact that his arbiter was seconds away from reaching his army. He's a pro gamer, I think he knows best. However in the words of rekrul while the game was happening.... Pusan foils boxers rush; On October 21 2005 04:39 Rekrul wrote: lol gg pathetic build by boxer 3-0 Pusan builds another gate; On October 21 2005 04:40 Rekrul wrote: PUSAN WHY ARE YOU 3 gATING just EXPO though it doesn't matter, he'll still run over boxer i think, as long as he gets a robo soon Game progresses abit more, boxer gains back lots of ground, no expo for pusan yet; On October 21 2005 04:45 Rekrul wrote: PUSAN STOP FISHING PUSAN WITH SLIGHT ADV, BOXER NOT MANY SCVS and afterwards; On October 21 2005 04:56 Rekrul wrote: OMG WHAT A FISH LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLL SUCKOUT SICK SICK SICK and finally, in the words of fireblast On October 21 2005 04:57 FireBlast! wrote: ... 2-1 Boxer's still alive and kicking (but Pusan had this game 70% won, 3 gate was too much with pointless unit losses -_-;; ) Can you seriously say that pusan didnt make a mistake in that game? i know he did- what about you :O P.S. Draco fighting!!  | ||
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Luhh
Sweden2974 Posts
The major mistakes they all do often in games are mismicroing, bad timings, bad unit mix decisions, bad decisions in terms of mass and power and tech. There isn't enough time and they don't have enough concentration or quick wits to make good calls all the time. In fact, In most cases they don't even think, they only play by routine and pre-fab choices and builds and mixes, since they don't have enough time to evaluate the situation and choose best strategy and tactics. If they take too much time on those things, they'll fall behind. In conclusion, progamers don't always know best and they do tons of mistakes, many "newbish" and stupid ones also. Oh and the Pusan example is clearly a "newbish" and "stupid" mistake, he chose not to wait for his arbiter to arrive in time, and instead paid dearly. Even though Boxers defense may have been fractionally better those few seconds later, Pusan wouldn't have lost as many units. Case closed. Go Draco Go Draco Go Draco!!! | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On July 07 2006 16:11 FrozenArbiter wrote: - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_Trader_(Warhammer_40,000) I stand corrected! My perceptions were wrong! Ty FA for setting me right. | ||
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Jathin
United States3505 Posts
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Sun
United States551 Posts
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
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