• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 14:30
CEST 20:30
KST 03:30
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 244
Community News
Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon?98Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)9Weekly Cups (August 24-30): Patches' balance mod takes over3New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery!45Weekly Cups (August 17-23): Zerg dominate the week6
StarCraft 2
General
Nexon wins bid to develop StarCraft IP content, distribute Overwatch mobile game Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) SC4ALL: II Winner Will Earn a Spot at HSC 30! Weekly Cups (August 24-30): Patches' balance mod takes over September World Ranking: herO leads, Serral climbs
Tourneys
2026 GSTL Announcement Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly SC2 INu's Battles#20 [BO.9]
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 542 The Ascended Mutation # 541 Binary Choice The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 540 Dodge This
Brood War
General
ASL22 General Discussion Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Pros React To: Calm's Big Brain Play Vs Mini New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery!
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro16 Group A [ASL22] Ro24 Group F [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Brood War in Budapest ! WORTEX 2026 BW Finals
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Replay Review Process - What do you do? Game Theory for Starcraft
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Diablo IV EVE Corporation [Maplestory Hardcore] Let's Play~!! General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
F* the Children and Get Off …
TrAiDoS
Dreaming of BW patches (mod…
c3rberUs
Regacy Esports: The Bh…
regacyesports
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 6913 users

Altering Worker Spawning Position

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
1 2 Next All
CrystalDrag
Profile Joined July 2010
173 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-05 01:42:38
January 04 2013 00:42 GMT
#1
Ello everyone. This CrystalDrag from www.broodwarmaps.net

I experimented with this, and I don't know any other person to claim to find this...
Or any other map to do this before me...
So i guess i discover it?

This is to possibly change how pro maps might work.... ^^ or other map makers in general.

Article on BWMN

Terms for article--------------------------------------
+ Show Spoiler +
HCN - Hatchery,Command Center, and Nexus collectively. Refers to any of the races.
*Not to be confused with hydrogen cyanide


Introduction and Purpose--------------------------------------
+ Show Spoiler +
Purpose of this article to change the worker spawning locations, in relation to the HCN.

This is an extension of improving worker spawning locations, mainly the idea of putting supply depot next to the Command Center. I was inspired by SCII and how their workers spawned, and how that would be much more important for BroodWar. I first tried temples, and then i discovered the List of Unit and Building Sizes. So then i tested with buildings specified and to see how far i could overlap the start location with the buildings, changing the worker position as well as avoid the bug stack problem. Fellow Mapper Freakling Implimented the idea of using Hallucinated Mineral Fields, as i myself never used hallucination much.

The purpose of this article is to allow equal mining, for an example, minerals on top of the HCN as compared to the left/right/bottom.
This can also lead to mineral formations based in the corners of the HCN, and better worker positioning there.


Background Information--------------------------------------
+ Show Spoiler +
In an original spawn, Terran and Protoss have their Command Center Spawn, and then their workers.
In my observations, in a Zerg spawn, the Hatchery spawns, the creep spawns, one drone is spawned, the three larva are spawned, the next three drones are spawned, then the Overlord spawns a bit away from the corner of the hatchery that is closest to (respectively pointing towards) the center of the map.

The normal spawning position for units of production facilities is below the bottom left corner, then at the next spot with enough room for the respective unit counterclockwise from there if all other spots in clockwise direction are blocked by either any units or terrain.

For those who SimCity, the buildings of SCBW does not fully occupy their entire matrix. This can present a problem if you use a wrong building.

Must be 12th Player (Neutral)


How to Do--------------------------------------
+ Show Spoiler +
*Turning "debug/display unit collision boxes" in the "Debug" Tab of SCMDraft2 on is a good idea. You can pre-place everything as a building and then just place the unit sprite just on top of it (simple pixel-matching), finally remove the building.
*For Minerals Fields, you must disable mining distance required.

First, knowing which way you want your workers to spawn at is important.
*For two player maps, there are two options; sprite buildings or hallucinated mineral fields. For three players or greater, hallucinated minerals must be used.
*For two player maps, sprite buildings are acceptable because there are only two possible spawning locations..
*For three player maps, sprite buildings would appear on the map, if a player does not spawn at the specific place. Hallucinated Mineral Field will vanish after a certain amount of time, therefore leaving the future game play unaffected when the expansion to the mains occur.
*BUILDINGS(maybe mineral fields) CANNOT BE USED FOR THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE HCN. USE HALLUCINATED CRITTERS INSTEAD.

Next, you must choose a non-movable object that you wish to use. Units that do not match with their matrices exactly are therefore less desirable than other ones.
Buildings that occupy entire area are the Zerg Nydus Canal, Protoss Temple, Warp Gate, Mature Chrysalis, and Stasis Prison.
Mineral Field occupy the entire area they take.

You must then take the buildings/minerals and border then along the HCN.
Then displace the Hallucinated Mineral Field one pixel towards the HCN,
And for buildings The sprite must be placed one pixel towards the HCN.
The original reference building can be deleted.


Example--------------------------------------
+ Show Spoiler +
Using Mineral Fields
1. Basic Main Setup
[image loading]

2. Setting Proper Settings, and adding Basic minerals.
[image loading]
[image loading]

3. Placing of new Mineral Fields
[image loading]

4. After deleting the old mineral fields(Hardest to do Part), Set to hallucination
[image loading]


Samples of Uses--------------------------------------
+ Show Spoiler +
*Note Mineral Fields Not yet touching the HCN

Currently being updated.


Stack Bug Issue--------------------------------------
+ Show Spoiler +
If buildings/minerals are too far placed, a Stack Bug can occur. This Happened to me when i tried this initially.
[image loading]

Freakling::
The stack bug, mentioned in the article, is a real problem, and also appears if you place overlapping minerals (or any building-unit) at the right side of the HCN.
Hallucinated critters are an alternative.
If you use neutral buildings instead, the problem is that on maps with more than 2 spawns, the free spawns will have neutral buildings partially blocking them.
There's one neat thing you can do with that, though: place neutral command centers on each spawn of a (3) map, and you'll get an infestable CC for Zerg on the free spawn in each game

If any unit is overlapping the 4x3 tile area that makes up a spawn point (i.e. the initial CC/Nex/Hatch) at game start, it is removed (the exact order seems to be place CC/Hatch/Nex/place workers [hence the position changing works], finally remove the unit). If that unit is a building-unit (this includes resources), it can happen that the part of the main building [CC/Nex/Hatch], that would have been covered by the removed building, becomes buildable again (any full overlapping tiles will become buildable, as well as tile-high overlaps of only one pixel [or more obviously] a the right side of the spawn [hence you cannot use buildings to move workers beyond the right side], other partial overlaps depend [it's complicated]...)
So, because part (or all) of the area, that's taken up by your initial main building is buildable now, you can stack further buildings on it (only one stack, after that the engine will correctly recognize that area as build on, but the bug won't disappear, even if you repeatedly destroy and rebuild the stacked buildings, unless the main building itself is destroyed or, in case of a CC, lifted).

First of, it's just something that will alienate players, it's something one is not used to, that is not supposed to happen, that one would not expect.
But there are some serious balance/gameplay implications as well.
Think protoss vs. x: Manner pylon? Laughable. We can go manner proxy gateway now!
Or just defensively , you could place pylons/sunks/canons that are [almost] unreachable for melee units and hard to target (i.e. click on) for any other unit. Just think of a ZvZ with an invincible sunken in the main...
Other abuses, that I haven't tried out yet, is, if the stack bug applies to the whole spawn point (the whole 4x3 tile area of your main building) you could try one of the following things:
I. TvP: Build a CC or factory on top of the enemy Nexus (both have larger collision boxes than a Nex) and thereby stop probes from returning gathered resources (not sure if this even works, but if it did...)
[image loading]

II. ZvP [or ZvT]: Abuse the smaller collision box of hatches to place a proxy hatch right on top of the enemy main building, where it would be hard (or even impossible) to reach by melee units) [not tested as well]...
[image loading]

However, melee units still have a little bit of range and hence may still be able to hit a stacked building.



Things to Keep in Mind-------------------------------------
+ Show Spoiler +
Zerg creep will not be present in the beginning of the game where the buildings/minerals have been, but refills fast enough before any possible spawning pool.
[image loading]


Maps to First Use--------------------------------------
+ Show Spoiler +
Graveyard Gardens, My first failed attempt.
Demonio Azul, Using minerals not displayed.
MASASHI, Created by Me.


Thanks to Freakling for more insight about this. Parts of the article with much more sophisticated language is his.
mca64[KDV]
Profile Joined May 2012
Poland463 Posts
January 04 2013 01:02 GMT
#2
is it for all or for first 4 scvs?
CoL_DarkstaR
Profile Joined January 2009
Germany649 Posts
January 04 2013 01:03 GMT
#3
While the game was obviously perfectly balanced without this kind of change, i find it ridiculous that we see this 14 years after BW was released. It really strikes me how korean pro map makers haven't thought about changing this small but really aesthetic factor. Looks pleasing to me, although not necessary.

Good job!
CrystalDrag
Profile Joined July 2010
173 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-04 01:19:17
January 04 2013 01:18 GMT
#4
It is for All four workers at beginning. The Buildings/Minerals at the HCN vanish at the start of the game.
I am korean, but not pro map maker... but thank you

This mainly for some of the maps... such as (3)Great Reef Barrier and (3) Triathlon , where one of the starting positions workers must travel a slight more to reach the minerals.
NotJumperer
Profile Blog Joined July 2005
United States1371 Posts
January 04 2013 01:27 GMT
#5
--- Nuked ---
Xeofreestyler
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
Belgium6779 Posts
January 04 2013 01:44 GMT
#6
Mind = blown
Graphics
kmdkt
Profile Joined July 2009
Canada22 Posts
January 04 2013 01:51 GMT
#7
this is incredible! good job!
iG.kmdkt
Funnytoss
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Taiwan1471 Posts
January 04 2013 02:20 GMT
#8
This opens up so many possibilities for balanced map making, since there were some spawning positions that weren't possible due to longer initial mining distances! Wonderful simple fix.
AIV_Funnytoss and sGs.Funnytoss on iCCup
r.Evo
Profile Joined August 2006
Germany14081 Posts
January 04 2013 02:28 GMT
#9
How did you even come up with this? Sick find. o.o
"We don't make mistakes here, we call it happy little accidents." ~Bob Ross
Pucca
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Taiwan1280 Posts
January 04 2013 03:03 GMT
#10
Is there actual statics of how many more minerals this will give each player?
Master Chief
sM.Zik
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada2553 Posts
January 04 2013 03:14 GMT
#11
More minerals is always a good thing.
Jaedong Fighting! | youtube.com/ZikGaming
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66364 Posts
January 04 2013 03:19 GMT
#12
think i saw this somewhere where someone used a neutral temple to achieve the same results. regardless, this will possibly open up to more balanced / rotation symmetrical maps
POGGERS
1a2a3a[MB]
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States297 Posts
January 04 2013 03:26 GMT
#13
good smart idea try remake the maps for better larva 1v1 maps where left side (example heart break ridge) zerg has advantage because larva spawns are better.
RIP Teams Hwaseung OZ, WeMadeFox, MBC Game Hero, Air Force ACE, ZeNEX, SlayerS, Quantic-Vile, TSL, mTw
seRapH
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9814 Posts
January 04 2013 03:30 GMT
#14
This is really cool. Can something similar be done to make all gases equal?
boomer hands
chaosTheory_14cc
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada1270 Posts
January 04 2013 04:32 GMT
#15
Very cool, it will be interesting to see how balance is affected in future map making. It would be cool if this were implemented in some current maps to see the changes though.
thezanursic
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
5500 Posts
January 04 2013 04:37 GMT
#16
Hahaha, amazing. How did you manage to find this?
http://i45.tinypic.com/9j2cdc.jpg Let it be so!
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10554 Posts
January 04 2013 04:38 GMT
#17
oooo so THATS what those temples were for... i always wonered... very nice and cool design!
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
Jealous
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
10363 Posts
January 04 2013 04:42 GMT
#18
On January 04 2013 11:28 r.Evo wrote:
How did you even come up with this? Sick find. o.o

Players have been using buildings to help spawn positions of their workers (note: obviously not initial 4) for a long time, I think this is a logical extension of that.
"The right to vote is only the oar of the slaveship, I wanna be free." -- бум бум сучка!
ghrur
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3786 Posts
January 04 2013 04:44 GMT
#19
In the example, I see that zerg only spawns with one larva. Is this normal if you use this trick or are the larva simply stacked? Spawning with 1 larva compared to three hugely impacts zerg. :/
darkness overpowering
CrystalDrag
Profile Joined July 2010
173 Posts
January 04 2013 04:56 GMT
#20
@ghrur - No the larva are stacked.

@Pucca - No statistics, but relative to another player, they will have the equal mineral income at the same time, and one player will not have a slightly delayed initial worker production.

@seRapH - No, the gases are always going to remain unequal. The races themselves also affect the efficiency of each geyser.
Here are some articles on gas issue that BWMN has researched 3 years ago?
+ Show Spoiler +
Article 1
Article 2
Map


@Jealous + r.Evo - This is an extension of that, mainly the idea of putting supply depot next to the Command Center. I was inspired by SCII and how their workers spawned, and how that would be much more important for BroodWar. I first tried temples, and then i discovered the List of Unit and Building Sizes. So then i tested with buildings specified and to see how far i could overlap the start location with the buildings, changing the worker position as well as avoid the bug stack problem. Fellow Mapper Freakling Implimented the idea of using Hallucinated Mineral Fields, as i myself never used hallucination much.
1 2 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Monday Night Weeklies
16:00
#62
RotterdaM888
SteadfastSC373
TKL 298
IndyStarCraft 261
ZombieGrub53
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 888
ByuN 394
SteadfastSC 373
TKL 298
IndyStarCraft 261
BRAT_OK 57
ZombieGrub53
Trap 40
MindelVK 27
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 3385
Shuttle 1076
Soulkey 107
Zeus 100
Hyun 39
Mong 34
ToSsGirL 32
PianO 29
Shine 15
Sacsri 9
[ Show more ]
Yoon 7
ajuk12(nOOB) 6
Dota 2
qojqva3864
LuMiX3
Counter-Strike
fl0m1914
byalli1257
olofmeister908
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu301
Other Games
Grubby3174
Liquid`RaSZi2911
Beastyqt925
ceh9738
ArmadaUGS178
Hui .170
C9.Mang0141
Trikslyr46
420jenkins43
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick955
BasetradeTV86
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• kabyraGe 97
• StrangeGG 60
• Reevou 21
• Adnapsc2 12
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 35
• Michael_bg 5
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3044
• masondota21076
• WagamamaTV929
Counter-Strike
• Nemesis1181
Other Games
• imaqtpie1065
• Shiphtur393
Upcoming Events
Afreeca Starleague
15h 30m
Leta vs ggaemo
Jaedong vs Queen
GSL
16h 30m
PiGosaur Cup
1d 5h
Kung Fu Cup
1d 16h
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
KCM Race Survival
2 days
Escore
3 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Shopify Rebellion Sundays
5 days
Spirit vs Mixu
Clem vs TBD
RSL Revival
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-09-02
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - TRS
RSL Revival: Season 6
Calamity Invitational
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: King of Kings
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
SC4ALL II: Brood War
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.