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StarCraft: Orcs in space go down in flames - Page 4

Forum Index > BW General
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Ragnarork
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
France9034 Posts
September 29 2012 10:33 GMT
#61
Definitely a good read.

Made me bookmark this blog, and discover through this article the shitstorm about Daikatana (well, further that just "Romero + the first biggest fail in the videogame industry" :D)
LiquipediaWanderer
Ramanujan
Profile Joined April 2012
137 Posts
September 29 2012 13:35 GMT
#62
It's not a blog. It's a blog post.

Good read anyway.
CeriseCherries
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
6170 Posts
September 29 2012 14:26 GMT
#63
great story! so cool to see behind the scenes
Remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France8146 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-29 15:19:27
September 29 2012 15:10 GMT
#64
On September 28 2012 08:08 HawaiianPig wrote:
The more I read these blogs the more it's clear that game development in this era was dominated by extremely skilled individuals facing the growing pains of a burgeoning industry. It seems it's resulted in a lot of accidental hit games.

I mean... I especially love that Starcraft was rebooted on account of fear induced from a fake demo. Fantastic.

But more specifically, every time I read a story like this, about the development of older games, I always notice one key theme: that developers were in the business of making games and not in the business of making games.

Although guys like Allen Adham would push development cycles into strict timeframes or push for the development of more casual games, it seems that the sterile "maximize sales at all costs" approach would not bleed into the actual content of a game. There was no "What if soccer moms played this game?" focus group in order to make the game more accessible.

There was simply: "Make an RTS game set in space"

And that's what we got.

Yep.

People were trying to make a good game. So it was a great success and they made a lot of money. Now people try to make a lot of money and therefore to make a good game. Can't blame them. They have shareholders, huge financial investments on their shoulders, enormous competition... Of course the former option produces something potentially extraordinary, the other one produces... well, you know.

The best game I have seen in the last years is Dwarf Fortress. It's a completely non-lucrative project. No marketing, no shareholders pressure, no commercial strategy. Just guys trying to make something as good as possible. And if less people plays it because it is not user friendly, well, fuck it, it doesn't even matter.

More money =/= better perspectives of awesomness. Often, it's exactly the opposite. People should remember that, including when thinking about esports. And that's also something I witness every day in my field, which is music. Britney Spears, or Lady Gaga are supposed to make money and be succesfull, so they do their best to make good music. Ray Charles, Wagner or Bob Dylan wanted desperately to make good music, and they eventually became succesfull. I think we will remember Dylan for being a great artist, and ady Gaga for being very popular. It doesn't even matter that Wagner made money, and it doesn't really matter what kind of music Britney Spear does.
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
v3chr0
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States856 Posts
September 29 2012 21:54 GMT
#65
Great blog, very interesting.

All in all, we just need more competition in the RTS (among other) genres.

"He catches him with his pants down, backs him off into a corner, and then it's over." - Khaldor
EdSlyB
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Portugal1621 Posts
September 29 2012 22:59 GMT
#66
Holy shit! Fake demos O.O
Even W3 had one.

That's a great blog. I read the previous entry but not the most recent. Thanks for make me notice it.
aka Wardo
Mathewep2010
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States63 Posts
September 29 2012 23:00 GMT
#67
Pretty cool read on the guys blog, that first version of SC looked crazy bad. Glad that one company showed fake stuff so we ended up getting a good SC rather than that one. Interesting to see some insider view of things that goes on with game companies behind the scenes, pretty cutthroat business.
Scrutinizer
Profile Joined April 2011
170 Posts
September 30 2012 07:37 GMT
#68
"So anyway I fixed lots of bugs. Some of my own, sure, but mostly the elusive bugs written by other tired programmers. One of the best compliments I’ve received came just a few months ago, when Brian Fitzgerald, one of two best programmers I’ve had occasion to work with, mentioned a code-review of StarCraft; they were blown away by how many changes and fixes I had made over the entire code-base. At least I got some credit for the effort, if only well after the fact!"

wow, mad respect for the guy!
CruelZeratul
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany4588 Posts
September 30 2012 14:30 GMT
#69
Thanks Dominion Storm, your help building the best RTS of all time will never be forgotten!
Le French
Profile Joined December 2011
France782 Posts
September 30 2012 15:49 GMT
#70
Fake demo made Broodwar!

I also checked on my BW files and it amazes me how this awesome game is only 50MB total! I know some jpgs that are more that 50MB.
Ca va?
NoobSkills
Profile Joined August 2009
United States1603 Posts
September 30 2012 19:53 GMT
#71
This has to be a hoax. If orcs were in space, how could there be fire? No oxygen.
LuckyMacro
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1482 Posts
September 30 2012 19:58 GMT
#72
wow this was a really good read. I went on to read the other blogs linked within this one as well, about ION spark and stuff. So much I didn't know!
DystopiaX
Profile Joined October 2010
United States16236 Posts
September 30 2012 20:37 GMT
#73
On September 30 2012 07:59 EdSlyB wrote:
Holy shit! Fake demos O.O
Even W3 had one.

That's a great blog. I read the previous entry but not the most recent. Thanks for make me notice it.

The way I read it the w3 demo was real and not prerendered, they just carefully avoided all of the really buggy terrain.
jobebob
Profile Joined April 2011
30 Posts
October 01 2012 02:05 GMT
#74
On September 29 2012 05:21 Osmoses wrote:
I love this blog. And what I take away most from it is the power of small yet talented groups as opposed to large and beurocratic businesses when it comes to making games. Blizzard, like many other game companies, made gold. Now they, like many other game companies, make shit. But lo and behold, the small-scale indie-scene is on fire.


I don't see how Blizzard makes crap games nowadays. I think it's more an issue of nostalgia clouding your views. SC2 is a great game hands down. D3 is a great game hands down. WOW is a great game hands down.

The one thing that has changed is the amount of money required to make a AAA game--i.e when 100mil is on the line, you can bet your ass business people (sadly) will be involved. Indie games are low risk thus can take a chance, which in turn is giving us some truly awesome games.
Rah
Profile Joined February 2010
United States973 Posts
October 01 2012 07:25 GMT
#75
Forget making a WoW or Starcraft movie, there should be an Orcs in Space movie, this is amazing to read about. It would blow away Fist Full of Quarters if they would drop a movie about an oldschool game developer's story.
Streaming on twitch. http://www.twitch.tv/rahsun86
kar1181
Profile Joined May 2010
United Kingdom515 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-01 11:46:43
October 01 2012 11:43 GMT
#76
Patrick's recent blogs on StarCraft's development are amazing (and you must go read his linked article regarding the turmoil that went on over at Ion Storm). His most recent one reminded me of something Michael Abrash (of Quake and more recently Valve software fame - one of the smartest software guys in the world imo) wrote back in the 90s and it's still up on Bluesnews. http://www.bluesnews.com/abrash/chap64.shtml

Basically he talks about a friend of his, Tom Wilson, who had heard that a rival video card manufacturer had used a technique (FIFO buffers specifically) to boost their chipset's performance. Wilson, wracked his brain and pushed himself and his thinking to the extreme to try and figure out what his competitor was doing. In the end he came up with an idea that while not perfect, seemed good enough.

Turns out his competitor hadn't really done anything particularly brilliant and his solution was actually far more effective and dramatically increased the performance of the chipset he was working on.

It's amazing how during this era of computing, individuals could still make a massive difference. It's also remarkable how we see time and time again, when faced with competition how brilliant people can be.

It's funny that despite it's sheer level of dysfunction, we have Ion Storm to thank for our favourite game being as good as it ended up being.
TheTreeKing
Profile Joined December 2010
United States26 Posts
October 01 2012 15:23 GMT
#77
I sunk so many hours into Dominion: SoG3. So many hours.

It's the game that actually got me into RTS, after that is when I started playing WC2 (I know, backwards) and the AoE games.

The game development world was just so small back then, it blows my mind.
If only Protoss units cost money
JieXian
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Malaysia4677 Posts
October 01 2012 16:54 GMT
#78
On October 01 2012 11:05 jobebob wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2012 05:21 Osmoses wrote:
I love this blog. And what I take away most from it is the power of small yet talented groups as opposed to large and beurocratic businesses when it comes to making games. Blizzard, like many other game companies, made gold. Now they, like many other game companies, make shit. But lo and behold, the small-scale indie-scene is on fire.


I don't see how Blizzard makes crap games nowadays. I think it's more an issue of nostalgia clouding your views. SC2 is a great game hands down. D3 is a great game hands down. WOW is a great game hands down.

The one thing that has changed is the amount of money required to make a AAA game--i.e when 100mil is on the line, you can bet your ass business people (sadly) will be involved. Indie games are low risk thus can take a chance, which in turn is giving us some truly awesome games.


you're absolutely right. I don't see how our generation of radio music is crappy. I think it's more of an issue of nostalgia coulding your views. Bieber is a great artist hands down. Minaj is a great artist hands down. Gaga is a great artist hands down.

The one thing that has changed is the amount of money required to market nobody into an AAA fame level artist. You can bet your ass business people are involved with a shitload of cash involved. Indie bands are low risk thus can experiment with different sounds, which in turn is giving us some truly awesome shit.


Equating them is an unfair exaggeration but I couldn't stand it because that's who you sound like.

Please send me a PM of any song you like that I most probably never heard of! I am looking for people to chat about writing and producing music | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noD-bsOcxuU |
Darksoldierr
Profile Joined May 2010
Hungary2013 Posts
October 01 2012 18:46 GMT
#79
On October 02 2012 01:54 JieXian wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 01 2012 11:05 jobebob wrote:
On September 29 2012 05:21 Osmoses wrote:
I love this blog. And what I take away most from it is the power of small yet talented groups as opposed to large and beurocratic businesses when it comes to making games. Blizzard, like many other game companies, made gold. Now they, like many other game companies, make shit. But lo and behold, the small-scale indie-scene is on fire.


I don't see how Blizzard makes crap games nowadays. I think it's more an issue of nostalgia clouding your views. SC2 is a great game hands down. D3 is a great game hands down. WOW is a great game hands down.

The one thing that has changed is the amount of money required to make a AAA game--i.e when 100mil is on the line, you can bet your ass business people (sadly) will be involved. Indie games are low risk thus can take a chance, which in turn is giving us some truly awesome games.


you're absolutely right. I don't see how our generation of radio music is crappy. I think it's more of an issue of nostalgia coulding your views. Bieber is a great artist hands down. Minaj is a great artist hands down. Gaga is a great artist hands down.

The one thing that has changed is the amount of money required to market nobody into an AAA fame level artist. You can bet your ass business people are involved with a shitload of cash involved. Indie bands are low risk thus can experiment with different sounds, which in turn is giving us some truly awesome shit.


Equating them is an unfair exaggeration but I couldn't stand it because that's who you sound like.



It dosen't change the fact that Sc2, D3 and WoW are all great games.
What do humans know of our pain? We have sung songs of lament since before your ancestors crawled on their bellies from the sea.
wcr.4fun
Profile Joined April 2012
Belgium686 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-01 21:26:30
October 01 2012 21:17 GMT
#80
On September 30 2012 00:10 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 28 2012 08:08 HawaiianPig wrote:
The more I read these blogs the more it's clear that game development in this era was dominated by extremely skilled individuals facing the growing pains of a burgeoning industry. It seems it's resulted in a lot of accidental hit games.

I mean... I especially love that Starcraft was rebooted on account of fear induced from a fake demo. Fantastic.

But more specifically, every time I read a story like this, about the development of older games, I always notice one key theme: that developers were in the business of making games and not in the business of making games.

Although guys like Allen Adham would push development cycles into strict timeframes or push for the development of more casual games, it seems that the sterile "maximize sales at all costs" approach would not bleed into the actual content of a game. There was no "What if soccer moms played this game?" focus group in order to make the game more accessible.

There was simply: "Make an RTS game set in space"

And that's what we got.

Yep.

People were trying to make a good game. So it was a great success and they made a lot of money. Now people try to make a lot of money and therefore to make a good game. Can't blame them. They have shareholders, huge financial investments on their shoulders, enormous competition... Of course the former option produces something potentially extraordinary, the other one produces... well, you know.

The best game I have seen in the last years is Dwarf Fortress. It's a completely non-lucrative project. No marketing, no shareholders pressure, no commercial strategy. Just guys trying to make something as good as possible. And if less people plays it because it is not user friendly, well, fuck it, it doesn't even matter.

More money =/= better perspectives of awesomness. Often, it's exactly the opposite. People should remember that, including when thinking about esports. And that's also something I witness every day in my field, which is music. Britney Spears, or Lady Gaga are supposed to make money and be succesfull, so they do their best to make good music. Ray Charles, Wagner or Bob Dylan wanted desperately to make good music, and they eventually became succesfull. I think we will remember Dylan for being a great artist, and ady Gaga for being very popular. It doesn't even matter that Wagner made money, and it doesn't really matter what kind of music Britney Spear does.


Great analogy. I feel the same way.

Sc2, D3 and WoW are/have become "awful" games. Sc2 ditched all the aspects that made BW the greatest RTS ever. D3 was competitive for all the wrong reasons, instead of requiring skilfull play, the game required expensive items, the game didn't even have PvP at release. WoW's competitive side is awful and the game itself is pretty boring as well, the quests lack originality,...

Now WoW was a pretty great game at release. But Sc2 is just a half assed product, even when we don't compare it to BW. Sc2's battlenet experience is horrible (aside from having practically zero delay). Compare the online experience to DOTA2. I don't know what's going on in blizzard's head, but them relying on the epic reputation they build upon games as brood war and warcraft 3 is becoming doubtful and I'm sure a lot of people are in the same boat as me, doubting to continue buying blizzard's products if this trend continues....
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