• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 03:10
CET 09:10
KST 17:10
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Weekly Cups (Nov 2-8): herO back on top?1Weekly Cups (Oct 26 - Nov 1): MaxPax, herO, Solar win0Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175Evil Geniuses - shutting down23ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier7
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Nov 2-8): herO back on top? Serral's getting trashed by New Catsle's Mind No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon [D] Hacker peak in sc2 ?
Tourneys
SC2 iNu's Battles #22 SC4ALL: II Venue Change Announcement! Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Mondays ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
Starcraft 2 Advance [G] How to playtest arcade maps [D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 551 Robotic Revival Mutation # 550 Graveyard Shift Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ List of top players active on ShieldBattery Rollback Netcode in Brood War [Megathread] Daily Funny Videos BW General Discussion
Tourneys
2v2v2v2 Tournament Stage 1: Community Poll [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [$1250] International ShieldBattery League Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Nuke strategy worked in K-League 2026-11-09 50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy)
Other Games
General Games
ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live! Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Trading/Investing Thread US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Dating: How's your luck? Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
Fan Club Resource Thread Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
The time I organised my…
AssyrianKing
Playlenda
Playlendapro
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 11245 users

StarCraft: Orcs in space go down in flames - Page 4

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next All
Ragnarork
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
France9034 Posts
September 29 2012 10:33 GMT
#61
Definitely a good read.

Made me bookmark this blog, and discover through this article the shitstorm about Daikatana (well, further that just "Romero + the first biggest fail in the videogame industry" :D)
LiquipediaWanderer
Ramanujan
Profile Joined April 2012
137 Posts
September 29 2012 13:35 GMT
#62
It's not a blog. It's a blog post.

Good read anyway.
CeriseCherries
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
6170 Posts
September 29 2012 14:26 GMT
#63
great story! so cool to see behind the scenes
Remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France8224 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-29 15:19:27
September 29 2012 15:10 GMT
#64
On September 28 2012 08:08 HawaiianPig wrote:
The more I read these blogs the more it's clear that game development in this era was dominated by extremely skilled individuals facing the growing pains of a burgeoning industry. It seems it's resulted in a lot of accidental hit games.

I mean... I especially love that Starcraft was rebooted on account of fear induced from a fake demo. Fantastic.

But more specifically, every time I read a story like this, about the development of older games, I always notice one key theme: that developers were in the business of making games and not in the business of making games.

Although guys like Allen Adham would push development cycles into strict timeframes or push for the development of more casual games, it seems that the sterile "maximize sales at all costs" approach would not bleed into the actual content of a game. There was no "What if soccer moms played this game?" focus group in order to make the game more accessible.

There was simply: "Make an RTS game set in space"

And that's what we got.

Yep.

People were trying to make a good game. So it was a great success and they made a lot of money. Now people try to make a lot of money and therefore to make a good game. Can't blame them. They have shareholders, huge financial investments on their shoulders, enormous competition... Of course the former option produces something potentially extraordinary, the other one produces... well, you know.

The best game I have seen in the last years is Dwarf Fortress. It's a completely non-lucrative project. No marketing, no shareholders pressure, no commercial strategy. Just guys trying to make something as good as possible. And if less people plays it because it is not user friendly, well, fuck it, it doesn't even matter.

More money =/= better perspectives of awesomness. Often, it's exactly the opposite. People should remember that, including when thinking about esports. And that's also something I witness every day in my field, which is music. Britney Spears, or Lady Gaga are supposed to make money and be succesfull, so they do their best to make good music. Ray Charles, Wagner or Bob Dylan wanted desperately to make good music, and they eventually became succesfull. I think we will remember Dylan for being a great artist, and ady Gaga for being very popular. It doesn't even matter that Wagner made money, and it doesn't really matter what kind of music Britney Spear does.
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
v3chr0
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States856 Posts
September 29 2012 21:54 GMT
#65
Great blog, very interesting.

All in all, we just need more competition in the RTS (among other) genres.

"He catches him with his pants down, backs him off into a corner, and then it's over." - Khaldor
EdSlyB
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Portugal1621 Posts
September 29 2012 22:59 GMT
#66
Holy shit! Fake demos O.O
Even W3 had one.

That's a great blog. I read the previous entry but not the most recent. Thanks for make me notice it.
aka Wardo
Mathewep2010
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States63 Posts
September 29 2012 23:00 GMT
#67
Pretty cool read on the guys blog, that first version of SC looked crazy bad. Glad that one company showed fake stuff so we ended up getting a good SC rather than that one. Interesting to see some insider view of things that goes on with game companies behind the scenes, pretty cutthroat business.
Scrutinizer
Profile Joined April 2011
170 Posts
September 30 2012 07:37 GMT
#68
"So anyway I fixed lots of bugs. Some of my own, sure, but mostly the elusive bugs written by other tired programmers. One of the best compliments I’ve received came just a few months ago, when Brian Fitzgerald, one of two best programmers I’ve had occasion to work with, mentioned a code-review of StarCraft; they were blown away by how many changes and fixes I had made over the entire code-base. At least I got some credit for the effort, if only well after the fact!"

wow, mad respect for the guy!
CruelZeratul
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany4588 Posts
September 30 2012 14:30 GMT
#69
Thanks Dominion Storm, your help building the best RTS of all time will never be forgotten!
Le French
Profile Joined December 2011
France782 Posts
September 30 2012 15:49 GMT
#70
Fake demo made Broodwar!

I also checked on my BW files and it amazes me how this awesome game is only 50MB total! I know some jpgs that are more that 50MB.
Ca va?
NoobSkills
Profile Joined August 2009
United States1603 Posts
September 30 2012 19:53 GMT
#71
This has to be a hoax. If orcs were in space, how could there be fire? No oxygen.
LuckyMacro
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1482 Posts
September 30 2012 19:58 GMT
#72
wow this was a really good read. I went on to read the other blogs linked within this one as well, about ION spark and stuff. So much I didn't know!
DystopiaX
Profile Joined October 2010
United States16236 Posts
September 30 2012 20:37 GMT
#73
On September 30 2012 07:59 EdSlyB wrote:
Holy shit! Fake demos O.O
Even W3 had one.

That's a great blog. I read the previous entry but not the most recent. Thanks for make me notice it.

The way I read it the w3 demo was real and not prerendered, they just carefully avoided all of the really buggy terrain.
jobebob
Profile Joined April 2011
30 Posts
October 01 2012 02:05 GMT
#74
On September 29 2012 05:21 Osmoses wrote:
I love this blog. And what I take away most from it is the power of small yet talented groups as opposed to large and beurocratic businesses when it comes to making games. Blizzard, like many other game companies, made gold. Now they, like many other game companies, make shit. But lo and behold, the small-scale indie-scene is on fire.


I don't see how Blizzard makes crap games nowadays. I think it's more an issue of nostalgia clouding your views. SC2 is a great game hands down. D3 is a great game hands down. WOW is a great game hands down.

The one thing that has changed is the amount of money required to make a AAA game--i.e when 100mil is on the line, you can bet your ass business people (sadly) will be involved. Indie games are low risk thus can take a chance, which in turn is giving us some truly awesome games.
Rah
Profile Joined February 2010
United States973 Posts
October 01 2012 07:25 GMT
#75
Forget making a WoW or Starcraft movie, there should be an Orcs in Space movie, this is amazing to read about. It would blow away Fist Full of Quarters if they would drop a movie about an oldschool game developer's story.
Streaming on twitch. http://www.twitch.tv/rahsun86
kar1181
Profile Joined May 2010
United Kingdom515 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-01 11:46:43
October 01 2012 11:43 GMT
#76
Patrick's recent blogs on StarCraft's development are amazing (and you must go read his linked article regarding the turmoil that went on over at Ion Storm). His most recent one reminded me of something Michael Abrash (of Quake and more recently Valve software fame - one of the smartest software guys in the world imo) wrote back in the 90s and it's still up on Bluesnews. http://www.bluesnews.com/abrash/chap64.shtml

Basically he talks about a friend of his, Tom Wilson, who had heard that a rival video card manufacturer had used a technique (FIFO buffers specifically) to boost their chipset's performance. Wilson, wracked his brain and pushed himself and his thinking to the extreme to try and figure out what his competitor was doing. In the end he came up with an idea that while not perfect, seemed good enough.

Turns out his competitor hadn't really done anything particularly brilliant and his solution was actually far more effective and dramatically increased the performance of the chipset he was working on.

It's amazing how during this era of computing, individuals could still make a massive difference. It's also remarkable how we see time and time again, when faced with competition how brilliant people can be.

It's funny that despite it's sheer level of dysfunction, we have Ion Storm to thank for our favourite game being as good as it ended up being.
TheTreeKing
Profile Joined December 2010
United States26 Posts
October 01 2012 15:23 GMT
#77
I sunk so many hours into Dominion: SoG3. So many hours.

It's the game that actually got me into RTS, after that is when I started playing WC2 (I know, backwards) and the AoE games.

The game development world was just so small back then, it blows my mind.
If only Protoss units cost money
JieXian
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Malaysia4677 Posts
October 01 2012 16:54 GMT
#78
On October 01 2012 11:05 jobebob wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2012 05:21 Osmoses wrote:
I love this blog. And what I take away most from it is the power of small yet talented groups as opposed to large and beurocratic businesses when it comes to making games. Blizzard, like many other game companies, made gold. Now they, like many other game companies, make shit. But lo and behold, the small-scale indie-scene is on fire.


I don't see how Blizzard makes crap games nowadays. I think it's more an issue of nostalgia clouding your views. SC2 is a great game hands down. D3 is a great game hands down. WOW is a great game hands down.

The one thing that has changed is the amount of money required to make a AAA game--i.e when 100mil is on the line, you can bet your ass business people (sadly) will be involved. Indie games are low risk thus can take a chance, which in turn is giving us some truly awesome games.


you're absolutely right. I don't see how our generation of radio music is crappy. I think it's more of an issue of nostalgia coulding your views. Bieber is a great artist hands down. Minaj is a great artist hands down. Gaga is a great artist hands down.

The one thing that has changed is the amount of money required to market nobody into an AAA fame level artist. You can bet your ass business people are involved with a shitload of cash involved. Indie bands are low risk thus can experiment with different sounds, which in turn is giving us some truly awesome shit.


Equating them is an unfair exaggeration but I couldn't stand it because that's who you sound like.

Please send me a PM of any song you like that I most probably never heard of! I am looking for people to chat about writing and producing music | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noD-bsOcxuU |
Darksoldierr
Profile Joined May 2010
Hungary2014 Posts
October 01 2012 18:46 GMT
#79
On October 02 2012 01:54 JieXian wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 01 2012 11:05 jobebob wrote:
On September 29 2012 05:21 Osmoses wrote:
I love this blog. And what I take away most from it is the power of small yet talented groups as opposed to large and beurocratic businesses when it comes to making games. Blizzard, like many other game companies, made gold. Now they, like many other game companies, make shit. But lo and behold, the small-scale indie-scene is on fire.


I don't see how Blizzard makes crap games nowadays. I think it's more an issue of nostalgia clouding your views. SC2 is a great game hands down. D3 is a great game hands down. WOW is a great game hands down.

The one thing that has changed is the amount of money required to make a AAA game--i.e when 100mil is on the line, you can bet your ass business people (sadly) will be involved. Indie games are low risk thus can take a chance, which in turn is giving us some truly awesome games.


you're absolutely right. I don't see how our generation of radio music is crappy. I think it's more of an issue of nostalgia coulding your views. Bieber is a great artist hands down. Minaj is a great artist hands down. Gaga is a great artist hands down.

The one thing that has changed is the amount of money required to market nobody into an AAA fame level artist. You can bet your ass business people are involved with a shitload of cash involved. Indie bands are low risk thus can experiment with different sounds, which in turn is giving us some truly awesome shit.


Equating them is an unfair exaggeration but I couldn't stand it because that's who you sound like.



It dosen't change the fact that Sc2, D3 and WoW are all great games.
What do humans know of our pain? We have sung songs of lament since before your ancestors crawled on their bellies from the sea.
wcr.4fun
Profile Joined April 2012
Belgium686 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-01 21:26:30
October 01 2012 21:17 GMT
#80
On September 30 2012 00:10 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 28 2012 08:08 HawaiianPig wrote:
The more I read these blogs the more it's clear that game development in this era was dominated by extremely skilled individuals facing the growing pains of a burgeoning industry. It seems it's resulted in a lot of accidental hit games.

I mean... I especially love that Starcraft was rebooted on account of fear induced from a fake demo. Fantastic.

But more specifically, every time I read a story like this, about the development of older games, I always notice one key theme: that developers were in the business of making games and not in the business of making games.

Although guys like Allen Adham would push development cycles into strict timeframes or push for the development of more casual games, it seems that the sterile "maximize sales at all costs" approach would not bleed into the actual content of a game. There was no "What if soccer moms played this game?" focus group in order to make the game more accessible.

There was simply: "Make an RTS game set in space"

And that's what we got.

Yep.

People were trying to make a good game. So it was a great success and they made a lot of money. Now people try to make a lot of money and therefore to make a good game. Can't blame them. They have shareholders, huge financial investments on their shoulders, enormous competition... Of course the former option produces something potentially extraordinary, the other one produces... well, you know.

The best game I have seen in the last years is Dwarf Fortress. It's a completely non-lucrative project. No marketing, no shareholders pressure, no commercial strategy. Just guys trying to make something as good as possible. And if less people plays it because it is not user friendly, well, fuck it, it doesn't even matter.

More money =/= better perspectives of awesomness. Often, it's exactly the opposite. People should remember that, including when thinking about esports. And that's also something I witness every day in my field, which is music. Britney Spears, or Lady Gaga are supposed to make money and be succesfull, so they do their best to make good music. Ray Charles, Wagner or Bob Dylan wanted desperately to make good music, and they eventually became succesfull. I think we will remember Dylan for being a great artist, and ady Gaga for being very popular. It doesn't even matter that Wagner made money, and it doesn't really matter what kind of music Britney Spear does.


Great analogy. I feel the same way.

Sc2, D3 and WoW are/have become "awful" games. Sc2 ditched all the aspects that made BW the greatest RTS ever. D3 was competitive for all the wrong reasons, instead of requiring skilfull play, the game required expensive items, the game didn't even have PvP at release. WoW's competitive side is awful and the game itself is pretty boring as well, the quests lack originality,...

Now WoW was a pretty great game at release. But Sc2 is just a half assed product, even when we don't compare it to BW. Sc2's battlenet experience is horrible (aside from having practically zero delay). Compare the online experience to DOTA2. I don't know what's going on in blizzard's head, but them relying on the epic reputation they build upon games as brood war and warcraft 3 is becoming doubtful and I'm sure a lot of people are in the same boat as me, doubting to continue buying blizzard's products if this trend continues....
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 50m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 79841
Rain 1758
firebathero 1089
Aegong 26
ZergMaN 23
Mong 19
ajuk12(nOOB) 16
NotJumperer 12
yabsab 12
Noble 11
League of Legends
JimRising 534
Reynor29
Counter-Strike
shoxiejesuss126
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King111
Other Games
summit1g10317
XaKoH 393
ceh9305
Happy262
NeuroSwarm68
Sick63
ViBE49
Railgan12
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick530
BasetradeTV177
Counter-Strike
PGL63
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 6
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2240
League of Legends
• Rush1173
• Lourlo812
• Stunt438
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1h 50m
WardiTV Invitational
3h 50m
YoungYakov vs Lambo
SHIN vs TBD
Percival vs Shameless
Solar vs TBD
OSC
14h 50m
ByuN vs MaxPax
herO vs Krystianer
Percival vs Shameless
LetaleX vs YoungYakov
Nicoract vs Gerald
GgMaChine vs ArT
PiGosaur Cup
16h 50m
INu's Battles
1d 3h
ByuN vs Classic
3D!Clan Event
1d 8h
The PondCast
2 days
KCM Race Survival
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
Ultimate Battle
3 days
[ Show More ]
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
IPSL
4 days
TerrOr vs IJ_Terran
rasowy vs Hazorath
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
IPSL
5 days
Art_Of_Turtle vs KameZerg
Radley vs George
Replay Cast
5 days
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-11-09
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
Individual League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
Calamity Cup Div. A Season 8
IEM Beijing 2026
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026

Upcoming

YSL S4
Sector 951
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
StarCraft2 Weekly Open Tournament 2026 Grand Finals
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Underdog Cup 2026 Div 2-3
PGL Bucharest 2027
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.