• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 14:26
CEST 20:26
KST 03:26
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview4[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview2herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2026)5Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO4 & Finals Preview5
Community News
Weekly Cups (May 18-25): MaxPax wins doubles0Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League4Weekly Cups (May 11-17): Classic wins double0Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO8 Results2Weekly Cups (May 4-10): Clem, MaxPax, herO win1
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview Weekly Cups (May 18-25): MaxPax wins doubles herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview Weekly Cups (May 11-17): Classic wins double
Tourneys
GSL Code S Season 2 (2026) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 527 Hell Train The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 526 Rubber and Glue Mutation # 525 Wheel of Misfortune
Brood War
General
Pros React To: ASL S21 Finals BW General Discussion Very long shot - StarCraft x A7X video Pros React to: TvT Masterclass in FlaSh vs Light vespene.gg — BW replays in browser
Tourneys
[ASL21] Grand Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Any training maps people recommend? Muta micro map competition [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Dawn of War IV ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread Dating: How's your luck? European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development streaming software
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Customization Drives Loyalty…
TrAiDoS
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 3509 users

StarCraft: Orcs in space go down in flames - Page 4

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next All
Ragnarork
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
France9034 Posts
September 29 2012 10:33 GMT
#61
Definitely a good read.

Made me bookmark this blog, and discover through this article the shitstorm about Daikatana (well, further that just "Romero + the first biggest fail in the videogame industry" :D)
LiquipediaWanderer
Ramanujan
Profile Joined April 2012
137 Posts
September 29 2012 13:35 GMT
#62
It's not a blog. It's a blog post.

Good read anyway.
CeriseCherries
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
6170 Posts
September 29 2012 14:26 GMT
#63
great story! so cool to see behind the scenes
Remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France8086 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-29 15:19:27
September 29 2012 15:10 GMT
#64
On September 28 2012 08:08 HawaiianPig wrote:
The more I read these blogs the more it's clear that game development in this era was dominated by extremely skilled individuals facing the growing pains of a burgeoning industry. It seems it's resulted in a lot of accidental hit games.

I mean... I especially love that Starcraft was rebooted on account of fear induced from a fake demo. Fantastic.

But more specifically, every time I read a story like this, about the development of older games, I always notice one key theme: that developers were in the business of making games and not in the business of making games.

Although guys like Allen Adham would push development cycles into strict timeframes or push for the development of more casual games, it seems that the sterile "maximize sales at all costs" approach would not bleed into the actual content of a game. There was no "What if soccer moms played this game?" focus group in order to make the game more accessible.

There was simply: "Make an RTS game set in space"

And that's what we got.

Yep.

People were trying to make a good game. So it was a great success and they made a lot of money. Now people try to make a lot of money and therefore to make a good game. Can't blame them. They have shareholders, huge financial investments on their shoulders, enormous competition... Of course the former option produces something potentially extraordinary, the other one produces... well, you know.

The best game I have seen in the last years is Dwarf Fortress. It's a completely non-lucrative project. No marketing, no shareholders pressure, no commercial strategy. Just guys trying to make something as good as possible. And if less people plays it because it is not user friendly, well, fuck it, it doesn't even matter.

More money =/= better perspectives of awesomness. Often, it's exactly the opposite. People should remember that, including when thinking about esports. And that's also something I witness every day in my field, which is music. Britney Spears, or Lady Gaga are supposed to make money and be succesfull, so they do their best to make good music. Ray Charles, Wagner or Bob Dylan wanted desperately to make good music, and they eventually became succesfull. I think we will remember Dylan for being a great artist, and ady Gaga for being very popular. It doesn't even matter that Wagner made money, and it doesn't really matter what kind of music Britney Spear does.
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
v3chr0
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States856 Posts
September 29 2012 21:54 GMT
#65
Great blog, very interesting.

All in all, we just need more competition in the RTS (among other) genres.

"He catches him with his pants down, backs him off into a corner, and then it's over." - Khaldor
EdSlyB
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Portugal1621 Posts
September 29 2012 22:59 GMT
#66
Holy shit! Fake demos O.O
Even W3 had one.

That's a great blog. I read the previous entry but not the most recent. Thanks for make me notice it.
aka Wardo
Mathewep2010
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States63 Posts
September 29 2012 23:00 GMT
#67
Pretty cool read on the guys blog, that first version of SC looked crazy bad. Glad that one company showed fake stuff so we ended up getting a good SC rather than that one. Interesting to see some insider view of things that goes on with game companies behind the scenes, pretty cutthroat business.
Scrutinizer
Profile Joined April 2011
170 Posts
September 30 2012 07:37 GMT
#68
"So anyway I fixed lots of bugs. Some of my own, sure, but mostly the elusive bugs written by other tired programmers. One of the best compliments I’ve received came just a few months ago, when Brian Fitzgerald, one of two best programmers I’ve had occasion to work with, mentioned a code-review of StarCraft; they were blown away by how many changes and fixes I had made over the entire code-base. At least I got some credit for the effort, if only well after the fact!"

wow, mad respect for the guy!
CruelZeratul
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany4588 Posts
September 30 2012 14:30 GMT
#69
Thanks Dominion Storm, your help building the best RTS of all time will never be forgotten!
Le French
Profile Joined December 2011
France782 Posts
September 30 2012 15:49 GMT
#70
Fake demo made Broodwar!

I also checked on my BW files and it amazes me how this awesome game is only 50MB total! I know some jpgs that are more that 50MB.
Ca va?
NoobSkills
Profile Joined August 2009
United States1603 Posts
September 30 2012 19:53 GMT
#71
This has to be a hoax. If orcs were in space, how could there be fire? No oxygen.
LuckyMacro
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1482 Posts
September 30 2012 19:58 GMT
#72
wow this was a really good read. I went on to read the other blogs linked within this one as well, about ION spark and stuff. So much I didn't know!
DystopiaX
Profile Joined October 2010
United States16236 Posts
September 30 2012 20:37 GMT
#73
On September 30 2012 07:59 EdSlyB wrote:
Holy shit! Fake demos O.O
Even W3 had one.

That's a great blog. I read the previous entry but not the most recent. Thanks for make me notice it.

The way I read it the w3 demo was real and not prerendered, they just carefully avoided all of the really buggy terrain.
jobebob
Profile Joined April 2011
30 Posts
October 01 2012 02:05 GMT
#74
On September 29 2012 05:21 Osmoses wrote:
I love this blog. And what I take away most from it is the power of small yet talented groups as opposed to large and beurocratic businesses when it comes to making games. Blizzard, like many other game companies, made gold. Now they, like many other game companies, make shit. But lo and behold, the small-scale indie-scene is on fire.


I don't see how Blizzard makes crap games nowadays. I think it's more an issue of nostalgia clouding your views. SC2 is a great game hands down. D3 is a great game hands down. WOW is a great game hands down.

The one thing that has changed is the amount of money required to make a AAA game--i.e when 100mil is on the line, you can bet your ass business people (sadly) will be involved. Indie games are low risk thus can take a chance, which in turn is giving us some truly awesome games.
Rah
Profile Joined February 2010
United States973 Posts
October 01 2012 07:25 GMT
#75
Forget making a WoW or Starcraft movie, there should be an Orcs in Space movie, this is amazing to read about. It would blow away Fist Full of Quarters if they would drop a movie about an oldschool game developer's story.
Streaming on twitch. http://www.twitch.tv/rahsun86
kar1181
Profile Joined May 2010
United Kingdom515 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-01 11:46:43
October 01 2012 11:43 GMT
#76
Patrick's recent blogs on StarCraft's development are amazing (and you must go read his linked article regarding the turmoil that went on over at Ion Storm). His most recent one reminded me of something Michael Abrash (of Quake and more recently Valve software fame - one of the smartest software guys in the world imo) wrote back in the 90s and it's still up on Bluesnews. http://www.bluesnews.com/abrash/chap64.shtml

Basically he talks about a friend of his, Tom Wilson, who had heard that a rival video card manufacturer had used a technique (FIFO buffers specifically) to boost their chipset's performance. Wilson, wracked his brain and pushed himself and his thinking to the extreme to try and figure out what his competitor was doing. In the end he came up with an idea that while not perfect, seemed good enough.

Turns out his competitor hadn't really done anything particularly brilliant and his solution was actually far more effective and dramatically increased the performance of the chipset he was working on.

It's amazing how during this era of computing, individuals could still make a massive difference. It's also remarkable how we see time and time again, when faced with competition how brilliant people can be.

It's funny that despite it's sheer level of dysfunction, we have Ion Storm to thank for our favourite game being as good as it ended up being.
TheTreeKing
Profile Joined December 2010
United States26 Posts
October 01 2012 15:23 GMT
#77
I sunk so many hours into Dominion: SoG3. So many hours.

It's the game that actually got me into RTS, after that is when I started playing WC2 (I know, backwards) and the AoE games.

The game development world was just so small back then, it blows my mind.
If only Protoss units cost money
JieXian
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Malaysia4677 Posts
October 01 2012 16:54 GMT
#78
On October 01 2012 11:05 jobebob wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2012 05:21 Osmoses wrote:
I love this blog. And what I take away most from it is the power of small yet talented groups as opposed to large and beurocratic businesses when it comes to making games. Blizzard, like many other game companies, made gold. Now they, like many other game companies, make shit. But lo and behold, the small-scale indie-scene is on fire.


I don't see how Blizzard makes crap games nowadays. I think it's more an issue of nostalgia clouding your views. SC2 is a great game hands down. D3 is a great game hands down. WOW is a great game hands down.

The one thing that has changed is the amount of money required to make a AAA game--i.e when 100mil is on the line, you can bet your ass business people (sadly) will be involved. Indie games are low risk thus can take a chance, which in turn is giving us some truly awesome games.


you're absolutely right. I don't see how our generation of radio music is crappy. I think it's more of an issue of nostalgia coulding your views. Bieber is a great artist hands down. Minaj is a great artist hands down. Gaga is a great artist hands down.

The one thing that has changed is the amount of money required to market nobody into an AAA fame level artist. You can bet your ass business people are involved with a shitload of cash involved. Indie bands are low risk thus can experiment with different sounds, which in turn is giving us some truly awesome shit.


Equating them is an unfair exaggeration but I couldn't stand it because that's who you sound like.

Please send me a PM of any song you like that I most probably never heard of! I am looking for people to chat about writing and producing music | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noD-bsOcxuU |
Darksoldierr
Profile Joined May 2010
Hungary2013 Posts
October 01 2012 18:46 GMT
#79
On October 02 2012 01:54 JieXian wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 01 2012 11:05 jobebob wrote:
On September 29 2012 05:21 Osmoses wrote:
I love this blog. And what I take away most from it is the power of small yet talented groups as opposed to large and beurocratic businesses when it comes to making games. Blizzard, like many other game companies, made gold. Now they, like many other game companies, make shit. But lo and behold, the small-scale indie-scene is on fire.


I don't see how Blizzard makes crap games nowadays. I think it's more an issue of nostalgia clouding your views. SC2 is a great game hands down. D3 is a great game hands down. WOW is a great game hands down.

The one thing that has changed is the amount of money required to make a AAA game--i.e when 100mil is on the line, you can bet your ass business people (sadly) will be involved. Indie games are low risk thus can take a chance, which in turn is giving us some truly awesome games.


you're absolutely right. I don't see how our generation of radio music is crappy. I think it's more of an issue of nostalgia coulding your views. Bieber is a great artist hands down. Minaj is a great artist hands down. Gaga is a great artist hands down.

The one thing that has changed is the amount of money required to market nobody into an AAA fame level artist. You can bet your ass business people are involved with a shitload of cash involved. Indie bands are low risk thus can experiment with different sounds, which in turn is giving us some truly awesome shit.


Equating them is an unfair exaggeration but I couldn't stand it because that's who you sound like.



It dosen't change the fact that Sc2, D3 and WoW are all great games.
What do humans know of our pain? We have sung songs of lament since before your ancestors crawled on their bellies from the sea.
wcr.4fun
Profile Joined April 2012
Belgium686 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-01 21:26:30
October 01 2012 21:17 GMT
#80
On September 30 2012 00:10 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 28 2012 08:08 HawaiianPig wrote:
The more I read these blogs the more it's clear that game development in this era was dominated by extremely skilled individuals facing the growing pains of a burgeoning industry. It seems it's resulted in a lot of accidental hit games.

I mean... I especially love that Starcraft was rebooted on account of fear induced from a fake demo. Fantastic.

But more specifically, every time I read a story like this, about the development of older games, I always notice one key theme: that developers were in the business of making games and not in the business of making games.

Although guys like Allen Adham would push development cycles into strict timeframes or push for the development of more casual games, it seems that the sterile "maximize sales at all costs" approach would not bleed into the actual content of a game. There was no "What if soccer moms played this game?" focus group in order to make the game more accessible.

There was simply: "Make an RTS game set in space"

And that's what we got.

Yep.

People were trying to make a good game. So it was a great success and they made a lot of money. Now people try to make a lot of money and therefore to make a good game. Can't blame them. They have shareholders, huge financial investments on their shoulders, enormous competition... Of course the former option produces something potentially extraordinary, the other one produces... well, you know.

The best game I have seen in the last years is Dwarf Fortress. It's a completely non-lucrative project. No marketing, no shareholders pressure, no commercial strategy. Just guys trying to make something as good as possible. And if less people plays it because it is not user friendly, well, fuck it, it doesn't even matter.

More money =/= better perspectives of awesomness. Often, it's exactly the opposite. People should remember that, including when thinking about esports. And that's also something I witness every day in my field, which is music. Britney Spears, or Lady Gaga are supposed to make money and be succesfull, so they do their best to make good music. Ray Charles, Wagner or Bob Dylan wanted desperately to make good music, and they eventually became succesfull. I think we will remember Dylan for being a great artist, and ady Gaga for being very popular. It doesn't even matter that Wagner made money, and it doesn't really matter what kind of music Britney Spear does.


Great analogy. I feel the same way.

Sc2, D3 and WoW are/have become "awful" games. Sc2 ditched all the aspects that made BW the greatest RTS ever. D3 was competitive for all the wrong reasons, instead of requiring skilfull play, the game required expensive items, the game didn't even have PvP at release. WoW's competitive side is awful and the game itself is pretty boring as well, the quests lack originality,...

Now WoW was a pretty great game at release. But Sc2 is just a half assed product, even when we don't compare it to BW. Sc2's battlenet experience is horrible (aside from having practically zero delay). Compare the online experience to DOTA2. I don't know what's going on in blizzard's head, but them relying on the epic reputation they build upon games as brood war and warcraft 3 is becoming doubtful and I'm sure a lot of people are in the same boat as me, doubting to continue buying blizzard's products if this trend continues....
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
15:00
Warm Up Cup #2
SteadfastSC375
IndyStarCraft 190
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SteadfastSC 375
mouzHeroMarine 277
IndyStarCraft 190
UpATreeSC 105
ProTech73
BRAT_OK 50
JuggernautJason29
MindelVK 14
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 3252
firebathero 151
Free 34
910 25
Sacsri 23
Rock 21
IntoTheRainbow 11
ajuk12(nOOB) 10
soO 7
Dota 2
qojqva2255
BananaSlamJamma153
Counter-Strike
fl0m1924
Other Games
Grubby3180
singsing1754
Liquid`RaSZi1163
Beastyqt627
byalli444
Dendi407
B2W.Neo374
KnowMe244
mouzStarbuck206
C9.Mang0153
ArmadaUGS111
QueenE98
RotterdaM85
Mew2King47
kaitlyn29
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL313
Other Games
BasetradeTV182
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 110
• iHatsuTV 6
• Reevou 5
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• intothetv
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3224
League of Legends
• Nemesis4034
• TFBlade1192
Other Games
• imaqtpie1522
• WagamamaTV363
• Shiphtur63
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
5h 34m
GSL
15h 4m
Maru vs SHIN
Zoun vs Rogue
WardiTV Spring Champion…
17h 34m
SKillous vs Strange
Lambo vs Strange
Ryung vs Strange
Lambo vs Ryung
Ryung vs SKillous
Lambo vs SKillous
OSC
1d
Replay Cast
1d 5h
Maestros of the Game
1d 18h
Replay Cast
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Lambo vs SHIN
Solar vs Rogue
herO vs Clem
Maestros of the Game
2 days
IPSL
2 days
ZZZero vs WorsT
Julia vs eOnzErG
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Maestros of the Game
3 days
IPSL
3 days
Dragon vs Artosis
dxtr13 vs Hawk
BSL
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
WardiTV Spring Champion…
5 days
Maestros of the Game
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Maestros of the Game
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 21
2026 GSL S1
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

2026 KK StarCraft Pro League
BSL Season 22
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
KK 2v2 League Season 1
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
SCTL 2026 Spring
WardiTV Spring 2026
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: King of Kings
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
Bounty Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.