[R] High level BGH replays - Page 4

SuperJongMan

Jamaica11586 Posts

December 29 2005 13:58 GMT

#61

Late Game BGH isn't standard.
Since there is 2 vespene, there are some risky tech rushes you can try early on.
Dual Fast Upgrade Toss
Easy lurker muta

BGH is like Hunters without attrition and too much gas...
It's still strategic awhile tiresome and 99% of the population can't play it right.
Saying it takes no skill or no strategy is a lie.
End. Verdict. Signed sealed and delivered.

EDIT - I don't/can't play T. lol

tfeign

United States2980 Posts

December 29 2005 14:01 GMT

#62

You have a terran icon and can't play T?

...

Syst[eM]

335 Posts

December 29 2005 14:13 GMT

#63

Really? Why would you disrespect something a lot of people love playing? Because it is different than what you play? I thought this was a BroodWar community. BGH is pat of Broodwar right?

Different from ftw

tfeign

United States2980 Posts

December 29 2005 14:15 GMT

#64

On December 29 2005 18:46 Wangsta wrote:
bgh isn't a newb map, it's just played by newbs.

I remember a while ago in x17 I watch some toss (i think testie) go against some idiot who said he could beat him on bgh cuz thats where he practices. And in the end he got completely destroyed.

BGH is not "easier." If you played against a static opponent who always got X units in Y amount of time, BGH would be easier. But since YOU can build faster, your opponent can too. In fact, I would say bgh/fastestmapever is harder than normal maps when played at a higher level, because small mistakes can easily lose you the game.

The reason why you don't see bgh/fastest at high levels is because its boring. there was this VOD where boxer, nada, yellow?, and some toss played a 2v2 on fastest map ever. Nada went zerg and basically won 2v1 with 20-30 hatch cracklings

If you're using Testie as an example to support your point, then that's just a completely dumb example.

What if Testie got completely destroyed? Replace "he" with Testie in the last sentence of your first paragraph, and everything would make 100% sense.

It's funny how money map players always try to make a point that money map takes just as much skills as nonmoney by challenging highly skilled nonmoney players on a money map game, with the claim that "if you think money takes no skill, then try and beat me on money."

Well in this case, Testie, the non money player, did completely destroyed the money mapper who practices heavily on BGH.

Why you would use an example that actually go AGAINST what you're trying to say is truly beyond me.

Insane

United States4991 Posts

December 29 2005 14:20 GMT

#65

I don't see what's so bad about BGHers getting a decent community? :O

tfeign

United States2980 Posts

December 29 2005 14:24 GMT

#66

Oh, and the reason why you don't see bgh/fastest at high levels is because:

1. It's racially imbalanced. Everything protoss is fucking overpowered and everything zerg is weak.

2. It's positionally imbalanced. Maps such as BGH heavily depends on starting position

3. The skill level gap is tiny compared to nonmoney

4. It's boring as hell to watch. There's no creative strategies that are actually viable in a game between highly skilled players. You just can not expect a player who goes non-standard on bgh/fastest and win against a player who knows what he's doing.

Nada went zerg and basically won 2v1 on fastest map with 20-30 hatch cracklings

where the fuck did you get this from?

I honestly think I can beat July 1v1 on fastest map. Zerg on fastest map just sucks, period. If you let zerg mass up 30+ hatches, something is wrong with you

Blind

United States2528 Posts

December 29 2005 14:33 GMT

#67

I play a lot of BGH and have gotten pretty good at it, considering I'm more of a non-money map player. I have no idea how you (Wangsta) can say small mistakes can cost you the game. Small mistakes mean way more in non-money maps.

Anyway, I still enjoy playing 3v3 bgh for fun. It can get challenging when you find 3 bgh players who know each other to play against. So I'm all for the BGH community getting organized.

ChoboCop

United States954 Posts

December 29 2005 18:25 GMT

#68

Bashed motel teams on east at BGH many times. This is a lower skill 1v1 room. Most of the non-money 1v1 ring has no problem disposing of the 'motel'ers.

CloudTime

80 Posts

December 29 2005 20:43 GMT

#69

money maps = no skill, always have always will

tAi.BcHyDrO

Canada7 Posts

December 29 2005 23:30 GMT

#70

On December 26 2005 22:38 Physician wrote:
Wrong forum man.

Try
http://www.starcraftdream.com/
http://www.bgh4ever.com/

Mind you BGH/fastest community not organized - and I hope they never do organize themselves.

Cause they are mostly kids playing money... not nearly smart enough :p

Eniram

Sudan3166 Posts

December 29 2005 23:38 GMT

#71

For those of you saying it takes no skill to play money maps because when you play public games on them you own... Well no shit? Thats because you're playing pubs. That doesn't mean its easier on money, just means your opponent is newb. Play against someone good then we'll see how much skill it takes to win.

EAGER-beaver

Canada2799 Posts

December 29 2005 23:42 GMT

#72

Nothing wrong with money maps, they're just more noob friendly. Sure you're missing out on the true beauty of the game but some people just can't devote enough time to learning and understanding at a level the average tl.net poster takes for granted.

tAi.BcHyDrO

Canada7 Posts

December 30 2005 00:30 GMT

#73

On December 26 2005 23:50 Zymurgy wrote:

Show nested quote +

You should refer to your sig before you post...remember bw is a game and if people have fun playing bgh why would you hope they don't get an organized community if that is what makes the game fun for them?

So your for map hacking? who's to say the map hacker isn't having fun... suppose you could say that "but he's cheating" but money maps are a type of hack... you can't open a normal campaign editor and make a fastest, it has to be hacked.

BGH is ok i guess... atleast they don't have 1344234 stacked patched of 50000000 infront of their base where if you lift your not gonna be able to land back where your cc started.

Night[Mare

Mexico4793 Posts

December 30 2005 00:40 GMT

#74

On December 27 2005 02:05 tfeign wrote:

Show nested quote +

No, there are not tons of to be learned strategies on money maps. In competitive play, there is only a few small amount of builds that are actually viable when playing against a player of very high level. Sure, there's a ton of builds that one can use to humiliate newbies, but almost all of them will not work against anyone highly skilled. Playing it safe is really the only way to win on a money map on competitive play due to the fact that scouting is so simple to do on a money map. There's really no room for surprises when your oppononent can always scout and see what you are going for. The same is not true in nonmoney.

THERE IS NO HIGH LEVEL FOR MOONEY MAPS ~_~

taDa

575 Posts

December 30 2005 01:06 GMT

#75

On December 26 2005 21:47 gokai wrote:
Since my friend and I only play BGH, I was wondering if there are any high level bgh replays. We play only 3v3, so those will be very helpful, but 2v2 are fine too. Since I want to improve my terran, there must be a terran in the replay.

P.S.
Are there any good terran strategy and build orders for bgh 3v3?

please tell me this is a joke. Instant ban. Hard to believe this topic is still dragging on.

Mortality

United States4790 Posts

December 30 2005 02:26 GMT

#76

On December 30 2005 09:40 Night[Mare] wrote:

Show nested quote +

On December 27 2005 02:05 tfeign wrote:

On December 27 2005 01:58 OverTheUnder wrote:

On December 27 2005 01:44 tfeign wrote:

On December 27 2005 00:30 Chris307 wrote:
Money maps require as much skill as non-money.

That\'s such a bullshit statement. I\'ve honestly played money map more than I played non money in my Starcraft career. To go from a D level player to a B level player on non money is about 10 times harder (and 10 is not an exaggerated number) than it is to go from a D level fastest/money player to a B level fastest/money player.

On my 3rd year of playing money, I can honestly claim that I could beat 99.9% of any money player. There\'s less than a handful amount of players I know of that had outplayed me on BGH.

In my 3rd year of playing non money, I am still far behind a B level player.

If demand is high enough, I may write up a guide to playing BGH someday. But seriously, the learning curve and time required until mastery is just not even comparable between a money and nonmoney map. Anything from strategy, micro, macro, decision-making, speed, creativity, and execution on a money map completely pales in comparision to a non money map.

Agreed, but your example is kind of bad.

Just because u can beat 99% of money map players after playing a bit doesn\'t mean that u can *master* it that fast. There is probably tons to be learned strategy wise on money maps but the people who play them frequently to get good are alot less and the people who play it competetivly are pretty dam few in number;O That\'s the biggest reason why its so easy to get in the top 5% so fast. No one has really taken the time to master it or to get better if they are already on top.

No, there are not tons of to be learned strategies on money maps. In competitive play, there is only a few small amount of builds that are actually viable when playing against a player of very high level. Sure, there\'s a ton of builds that one can use to humiliate newbies, but almost all of them will not work against anyone highly skilled. Playing it safe is really the only way to win on a money map on competitive play due to the fact that scouting is so simple to do on a money map. There\'s really no room for surprises when your oppononent can always scout and see what you are going for. The same is not true in nonmoney.

THERE IS NO HIGH LEVEL FOR MOONEY MAPS ~_~

I stand against the \"skill\" of money maps, but as much as I hate to say so: you are wrong.

Why am I against money maps? For the reasons already listed here. The strategic depth of non-money is due to having limited resources at your disposal, which leads to the differences that tfeign has been addressing.

But there are some money mappers who do understand the game. They are a rarity. They are like the couple that is desperately in love but won\'t get married for some stupid hippy reason. These money mappers could play pro maps (let\'s face it, there is no \"pro\" money league, so don\'t even try to argue it; the maps I play, however, like Requiem, Forte, Rush Hour, etc. are used by proleagues that sponsor gamers on salaries that go into the six figures), yet these people choose not to. As I said, a rarity, yet they exist.

I don\'t have a problem with money mappers. What I have a problem with is when they get obnxious about \"being skilled.\" The challenge is supposed to be if I can beat them 1:1 on Fastest. And fastest is the only map considered. Even when I play my friends, I don\'t consider playing just one map. LT and Luna are just the begining, not the be all and end all. Except for the new maps by Bill and Usan Nation (which is really meant for 2v2 anyway), I have palyed all the maps in the PGT pool with friends. And it is a culmination of experiences on those that lead me to decide who I am better than. Maybe a friend of mine beats me consistently on Luna, but if I rape him on everything else, is he better than me because he\'s better on Luna? No, in fact, that just implies to me that he has the strategy on Luna worked out, but doesn\'t understand the game well enough to play anything but.

And money mappers are completely ignorant of that. Whether I do well or not, I CAN play fastest. I CAN play BGH. How many of them CAN play LT or Luna or, much worse for them, Requiem or 815?

Can anyone now argue to me why that makes them just as skilled as me? Fine, someone beats me on fastest. *Okay* I can rape almost any pub money map game, and I know that because I have done so in the past (in fact, I used to be in ICL, which is a group that dedicates itself to trashing and backstabbing BGH newbies, particularly comp stompers). I\'d like to see them win 1 out of 4 games pub LT. Then let\'s see them try PGT. How many of them will even win a single game?

scrapperdog

United States779 Posts

December 30 2005 02:36 GMT

#77

I remember when I thought the map "The Perfect Hunters" was indeed the most perfect map ever created.

I swear I remember some pro matches on BGH back in the day, but I could be wrong. I might be thinking of smuft/grrrr/nazgul (or elky I forget) in that 3v3 match vs 3 koreans on regular hunters.

Anyways, remember the majority of us were BGH people at one time.

OnlyRandom

Canada32 Posts

December 30 2005 03:10 GMT

#78

--- Nuked ---

Starparty

Sweden1963 Posts

December 30 2005 21:47 GMT

#79

On December 27 2005 00:30 Chris307 wrote:
I think it's obvious which one makes better television.

Ghin

United States2391 Posts

December 30 2005 23:20 GMT

#80

Everyone who supports BGH is an idiot and goes on the idiot list.

Supporting BGH is 100% proof you are an idiot. There are no exceptions.

Posting that you think BGH takes skill shows the world you are an idiot.

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