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Why would I want to work on Liquipedia?
Liquipedia is one of the hugest projects within the Brood War communtiy and one of the reasons why I visited TL more frequently after it was released. But that might be just me.
Liquipedia offers a lot of potential to either cover recent events, especially those that are posted in large threads every week, or, which in my eyes is way more important, might attract new players to the scene. It shows that we are not dead, still care and might give them a good introduction. Every little guide you publish in the forums could drown under a stockpile of Pro League coverage, Flash Memes, Interviews, while an article in LP is easier to find. LP is still one of the easiest portals to read, to understand and to help out with difficult problems.
Again it could really help to find strategies, even without knowing TL.net at all. I have been told by the wise ones (Noam), that the Google search engine is more likely to find articles written on Liquipedia.
If you're a retarded nostalgia driven maniac like I am, you also might want to actually start to gather all our foreign and Korean heritage and pass it on to people that might be interested to learn how deep Brood War's roots actually are. Besides, it looks a lot as if there was almost no Foreign scene at the moment - which isn't true at all. It's kind of sad that our biggest achievements as a scene might fade over time, with only Korean history remaining. Please share your knowledge!
Besides, Liquipedia II has info about a game only two years old but has twice the number of articles. How would we let that happen? Let's show them!
Requirements
You should be somewhat fluent in English, although that is really not an issue. Currently a lot of articles are in the need to be updated rather than spell checked. There is also no reason to worry about pressing buttons that might destroy the universe and delete the internet, as LP has plenty of back ups. Nobody will kill you if you try, as a matter of fact, the worst thing that could happen is that they'll help out and inform you how to do better next time.
What is needed?
Pretty much everything. Strategies seem to be outdated mostly, or at least not complete enough.
Player's profiles, especially those of the active foreigners need more love. If you have something in mind you think is missing - just go for it. Do it.
Foreign history is another topic - there are still a lot of players that miss, not to mention some of the biggest events.
Korean leagues and pages are also anything but complete, especially when it comes to less known players and older leagues, while the most recent ones seem to be covered.
Well, just have a look at some of these here:
Guide: Liquipedia Editing
Editing is really easy and you do not need to worry that you might not understand things. But first: log in on the Liquipedia before you start. You can't do much more than read-only if you are not logged in.
See? The first step was really easy!
Option 1: I only want to correct existing articles
Many of the articles I added have still dozens of mistakes - my English isn't all that great. Not to mention that VODs are missing, player profiles might lack info that you know, but we didn't when we first created the pages.
Now, there are two possible ways to contribute without doing too much work: use the Talk pages or do minor edits yourself.
Talk Pages
Talk pages are for dicussions. You can access all of them. They are located on the top of the articles. Just write what you want to have changed, and hopefully someone will do it for you. You don't even need to use much "code" to do something like this.
Two things though:
- Add ~~~~ at the end of your message; this will leave your signature, so we know who you are
- To respond to an already existing comment type a ":" (without the "). Your text will be indented
Minor Edits
Most of the things you might want to change is text editing only I guess. As long as you really only change text, you don't need to know what the wiki code really does to the rest of the article. You can basically fix any typos.
Note: if you only change typos or really small mistakes check the "Minor Edit" Box before you save!
Option 2: I want to do bigger edits!
Right, that's the best way to contribute, become one of us! The code you need to understand isn't all that complicated, if you understand the forum BB-Code, you're good to go. Again, it is really, really easy.
Most of it is actually that easy, that I'm not going to explain it. Trolol. Text design, structure and so on are perfectly well explained in the Help pages, I recommend to skim through them to get an idea of what you're doing. After 15 minutes of reading you will know the basic commands and formats, after actually editing pages for longer than an hour you will know them by heart.
If information misses in Liquipedia I's help pages, you will find in Liquipedia II's pages.
Also:
 Help:Policies
Help:Policy/Player pages (Foreign)
Please read those carefully before editing / adding more foreign players!
First Steps
User Pages
If you're really unsure where to start and are a generally shy person, you can also do Sandbox edits on your user page. To access your user page, simply add "User:YourNick" at the end of the URL in your browser. You can't possibly do any damage there!
Example: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/User:Ninazerg
Be sure that you type in the URLs correctly, all articles are case sensitive. As a result, a page will appear to be blank once you misstyped it.
Example: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/User:NinaZerg
Also, [ and ] won't work with nicks. Use ( and ) instead!
Update: It's way easier to get to your page by simply clicking on your nick when you're logged in. Thanks Pholon for pointing out the obvious.
Copy&Paste
Special Wiki Code might appear harder to edit for you at first. Especially tables can be problematic, if you don't understand the concept. It doesn't matter what kind of thing you want to add - if it isn't covered in the Help pages (see above) you don't need to give up immediately.
Simply look at the source of a page that uses a different or the same thing you want to have and copy the information out and change it bit by bit until it looks ok to you. That concept is very nice for your first edits. Use the preview button instead of saving and editing all the time!
If you still encounter problems all over again, you can join Liquipedia's IRC Channel on Q-Net: #Liquipedia. In case you do not have any kind of IRC client, just use TL.net's web IRC. Those people are eager to help you out and are very, very wise.
General Page Designs/Conventions
Most pages have specific designs. Player Profiles for example always look the same: General Info, Trivia Knowledge, Accomplishments, Interviews, Notable Games. The same goes for tournaments or strategies. If you only skim over some of these pages you will soon realize how a page could/should look like. Just use the copy&paste method and edit those bit by bit if you are about to create a new page from scratch.
But: check the Templates paragraph!
Templates
There are dozens of templates that will help you out and make life a lot easier for you. Templates always start with {{ and end with }}. Everything in between is usually self explanatory. The only problem is to know which templates you might need. But do not worry, here is a list of the most common ones! (case sensitive again, so be careful to copy/type them correctly!)
- {{Col}}: Starts a Column
- {{col-break}}: marks where the column should break; can be used multiple times
- {{EndCol}}: Closes the Column; if your text looks akwardly shifted, this is prolly missing
- Tournament Grids: can be found in Liquipedia II Help pages, along with different info
- Player Profile Infobox: Template
- Player Profile Infobox (Retired): Template
- League/Tournament Infobox: Template
To use such a template, simply go to the specific page (see links). Some of those templates are already displayed and offer code you can copy directly; for others you might need to click on the edit tab and copy the source directly. Anyhow, it's still pretty easy this far, right?
Some templates, sometimes embed in other templates, sometimes part of pages you just copied (Copy&Paste Method) use automatic categories. If you for example create a player page for a retired player, double check that you added him to the Retired Player category - using the retired player box instead of the active player box!
References
Some things need to have a source to it. In my opinion the Selector page shows this quite nicely; if it wasn't for us having tons and tons of proofs about him hacking, and hacking and hacking, I couldn't have written that he is a notorious hacker. Sometimes you also want to add clearifications to builds, link to VODs or Interviews that are otherwise not really fitting to the current paragraph. For this you can use references.
Those require a little HTML-like tag, but it's not hard. Let's do an example. This is what we want:
Player A was replaced by Player B after Incident C.²
Ideally, the ² should now be blue and link to a foot note - our reference. To actually add the reference, add <ref name=Source>[url Description]</ref>
Player A was replaced by Player B after Incident C<ref name=Source>[www.google.com Google.com on the issue]</ref>
Now, the <ref> tags are just needed to define that here should be a foot note. The "Source" can be replaced with any word you want to add, even it was PenisPenisVulva. In between the ref-tags we have an ordinary link. It does not need to be a link, but you'll mostly want the link version, due to using that as source rather than as "only foot note".
+ Show Spoiler +
fwiw "PenisPenisVulva" will probably get you banned...
-> just use something that makes sense.
However, these tags are not enough. If you only type it like this you will get annoying red warnings. You will also need something like:
==References==
<references />
This is an anker for the actual foot notes, as they show as number in the text, but as fully written sentence (or link). We usually add this at the bottom of the article!
Guide: Adding older Events
Now for something completely different. I personally would like to see more of the older events being part of Liquipedia, there are still hundreds of them missing. I know that there were really active scenes in other countries than Germany, but I know shit about them. You could be the person to teach me - with editing Liquipedia!
When I use the word "old" I really mean articles from before 2010, maybe from the era in between 1998 - 2003. However, the older these events are, the less sources you will find. It does really help to remember them, but that's hardly enough to re-construct grids or to create a full article.
This brings me to the next point: it is not needed to remember everything and it certainly doesn't matter if you play since 2010 but want to help with this kind of stuff. Anybody can do research, as long as there is motivation.
Option 1: I know what I want to add
It is a huge help if you know what you want to add. Let's assume you know already. But where to get information? If it's not in Liquipedia (foreign events that is), than it's probably not in TLPD.
There are plenty of sources you can use. Here are those I usually use:
So, note that some of these pages are in a foreign language, you most likely do not understand. That's not that bad, because most times you will find all neccessary info on TL or GG.net anyhow; grids, player information, VODs and so on are a different thing. Many events were hosted on pages that are nowadays offline (e.g. PGTour, WGTour, SC4all, GameOutLoud.com), but used to advertise their events on TL directly, with their main coverage and all information being posted on their respective pages. Which you can not access anymore.
To get more information use the pages I listed above and type down good key words, such as "PGL" and try to filter by year. You will often find grids, replays or scores hidden in a wall of what looks like jibber jabber to you.
You can also do external search requests, by using google. Go to google, type "Site:URL Keyword" into the engine and hit enter; you get more results than you think, most of them are actually very helpful. You can also refine the search if you exclude certain phrases. If you search for a "Invitational" tournament for example, you will get dozens of hits that won't fit; if you search for a old Russian invitational with
" site: reps.ru Invitational Brood War"
(Please note that there is no space between site: and reps; if I don't add the space there i get a puking smiley)
you will see a lot of hits on the latest ISL. That's not what you want though, so exclude "-Starleague" and filter using players that played!
"site:reps.ru Invitational ret DinOt brat_ok IefNaij -international"
It is kind of difficult to find all the information, but with a bit of luck you get all info you need. In many cases you need to literally re-construct tournament grids or group phases, since you might only know the initial player list and results for the later stages (semi finale and onwards) of a tournament. With the help of replays (can usually be found on gg.net) and minor helps you can do a lot more than you think.
If you know winner, runner-up and the other semi finalists in addition to the original player list you can start to add first the winner and the loser, then the semi finals and so on, until you get to the starting rounds. I did this in many cases, mostly for WCG tournaments, when you only knew who the winner and the second played in the rounds before. Add as much information as possible; use W and L for Win / Lose in tournament grids instead of the acutal results - it helps!
Sometimes, rarely though, you can read topics that link to sources that are now offline, but that are still archived somewhere. For this try to copy the links and search for them in Archive.org.
Note: this page demands a lot of patience from you, it doesn't load to quickly and often refuses queries. Try again and again, until you know for sure.
Option 2: I don't know what I want to add
Ok, there is still room enough for that. It's hard to remembe "all the events". I have problems myself.
You can get inspiration by browsing the list of Option 2, simply randomly clicking through pages, until you stumbe upon something that seems worth it. That's kind of... strange though.
Another approach would be to click through the player's profiles - many of them have a lot of accomplishments listed that are still not in Liquipedia. If you find something that sounds interesting - go for it!
Update 2:
On June 16 2012 06:01 Aesop wrote:
What I used to do to find pages to edit was hitting random page until I found something to fix or improve upon. This could be basic infos on a player's career, a map, notable games someone played, spelling or clarification in strategy articles. All that doesn't require writing an article on your own.
Also: Liquipedia will tell you!
So, now go forth an edit!
If there are updates, questions or any other feedback, I'd update the OP. Thanks to Nina & Noam for helping and spell checking!
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I blame Garena for any errors I may have missed.
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Bisutopia19234 Posts
I want to contribute to Liquipedia but I can never find anything informative enough to put there. Most of my TL articles are just fun nonsense with crazy pictures.
edit: but I really appreciate the OP's effort and I will try harder!
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On June 16 2012 05:40 BisuDagger wrote:
I want to contribute to Liquipedia but I can never find anything informative enough to put there. Most of my TL articles are just fun nonsense with crazy pictures.
edit: but I really appreciate the OP's effort and I will try harder!
Many of the player profiles lack pictures or notable games for example. It could be a help if you would just add VODs of games you saw on one of the latest streams or something.
You can also improvize and add batte reports on good games from bigger tournaments you seen, if you don't find VODs. Be creative, I'm sure you'll find something interesting. =)
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Bisutopia19234 Posts
On June 16 2012 05:44 Gecko[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2012 05:40 BisuDagger wrote:
I want to contribute to Liquipedia but I can never find anything informative enough to put there. Most of my TL articles are just fun nonsense with crazy pictures.
edit: but I really appreciate the OP's effort and I will try harder! Many of the player profiles lack pictures or notable games for example. It could be a help if you would just add VODs of games you saw on one of the latest streams or something. You can also improvize and add batte reports on good games from bigger tournaments you seen, if you don't find VODs. Be creative, I'm sure you'll find something interesting. =)
Yeah, battle reports are something I really plan on doing consistently. I planned on starting them up a while ago then Sayle became a staple caster and I tossed the idea aside as not needed anymore.
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Hungary11291 Posts
Inspiring! You have done quite a lot of great work on the wiki Gecko, and this certainly continues the trend.
What I used to do to find pages to edit was hitting random page until I found something to fix or improve upon. This could be basic infos on a player's career, a map, notable games someone played, spelling or clarification in strategy articles. All that doesn't require writing an article on your own.
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United States10328 Posts
hmm, maybe I should go for my silver coin... 
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I like the initiative! I'll start editing as soon as I can. 
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United States10154 Posts
I updated God Young Ho's page, putting in the rest of the 2010-11 season (which was missing the SPL 2010-11 Finals) and began the 2011-2012 season, splitting them into two parts (by saying "First half//Second half") for SPL. Hope you like it and approve it!
And ignore the other changes I made, besides the Terminator one xD
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btw hexer is not frosch
frosch ist another oldschool and very skilled german player who was actually hexers trainer back in the days cause i refused to train hexer when he was a noob  (one of my biggest mistakes)
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On June 16 2012 06:01 Aesop wrote:
Inspiring! You have done quite a lot of great work on the wiki Gecko, and this certainly continues the trend.
What I used to do to find pages to edit was hitting random page until I found something to fix or improve upon. This could be basic infos on a player's career, a map, notable games someone played, spelling or clarification in strategy articles. All that doesn't require writing an article on your own.
Nice, going to update this in the OP. There's another thing that really comes to mind: once you started to add older events you will realize that there are plenty of red (unedited) links left. It creates some sort of spiral, one article leads to the next and so on.
On June 16 2012 06:04 ]343[ wrote:hmm, maybe I should go for my silver coin...
Coins are the pure evil man. They give you more options (not saying what, not sure on the policy here) and you'll prolly get auto promoted by the system to an editor sooner or later. Guess I'll write some rant blog additionally on this topic 
+ Show Spoiler +
On June 16 2012 06:30 FlaShFTW wrote:
I updated God Young Ho's page, putting in the rest of the 2010-11 season (which was missing the SPL 2010-11 Finals) and began the 2011-2012 season, splitting them into two parts (by saying "First half//Second half") for SPL. Hope you like it and approve it!
And ignore the other changes I made, besides the Terminator one xD
~~
On June 16 2012 06:35 TaShadan wrote:btw hexer is not frosch frosch ist another oldschool and very skilled german player who was actually hexers trainer back in the days cause i refused to train hexer when he was a noob (one of my biggest mistakes)
I wasn't entirly sure. It would be great if more people would check older events, it's really hard to judge some things in hindsight. The Hexer/Frosch issue was one of them, some pages listed them as aka, not a single one of them introduced these two players, so I assumed it was the same person.
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awesome but i prefer to go with draw or kc over astro
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grummel was on team GoT) before he joined iv.
actually he was much longer on GoT than on iv.
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Japan11286 Posts
I'll watch some more old school games to contribute to Kingdom and Jju's pages.
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Liquipedia is one of the hugest projects within the Brood War communtiy and one of the reasons why I visited TL more frequently after it was released. But that might be just me. Talk PagesTalk pages are for dicussions. You can access all of them. They are located on the top of the articles. Just write what you want to have changed, and hopefully someone will do it for you. You don't even need to use much "code" to do something like this. ReferencesSome things need to have a source to it. In my opinion the Selector page shows this quite nicely; if it wasn't for us having tons and tons of proofs about him hacking, and hacking and hacking, I couldn't have written that he is a notorious hacker. Sometimes you also want to add clearifications to builds, link to VODs or Interviews that are otherwise not really fitting to the current paragraph. So, note that some of these pages are in a foreign language, you most likely do not understand. That's not that bad, because most times you will find all neccessary info on TL or GG.net anyhow; grids, player information, VODs and so on are a different thing. Many events were hosted on pages that are nowadays offline (e.g. PGTour, WGTour, SC4all, GameOutLoud.com), but used to advertise their events on TL directly, with their main coverage and all information being posted on their respective pages. Which you can not access anymore. If you know winner, runner-up and the other semi finalists in addition to the original player list you can start to add first the winner and the loser, then the semi finals and so on, until you get to the starting rounds. I did this in many cases, mostly for WCG tournaments, when you only knew who the winner and the second played in the rounds before. Add as much information as possible; use W and L for Win / Lose in tournament grids instead of the acutal results - it helps! Ok, there is still room enough for that. It's hard to remembe "all the events". I have problems myself. You can get inspiration by browsing the list of Option 2, simply randomly clicking through pages, until you stumbe upon something that seems worth it. That's kind of... strange though.
Bolded all the errors(some bolded stuff was copy and pasted from the original post so be wary of that). They are in order of the post but not all of the post is there. There was also an error from the very first sentence lol. GJ Garena and Nina :p
Also, you did say "So, now go forth an edit!"
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Sweet, something to do while updating market orders in EVE. Fix all the typos
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Bisutopia19234 Posts
How do I add a new page to the wiki? I want to work on the foreigner section so I randomly chose Flaf. and I want to start a new wiki page on the team NrT.
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Checked the approval. Not sure about Pro7ect. If he really doesn't play in any more tours from now on, we can still move him. But his last games were only two weeks ago or something.
Eagle: Don't think so. Add it?
On June 16 2012 19:29 BisuDagger wrote:
How do I add a new page to the wiki? I want to work on the foreigner section so I randomly chose Flaf. and I want to start a new wiki page on the team NrT.
You can type the name of the article you want in the search bar on the left menue. This shows you if there is already an article or not - if there isn't you obviously get search results back.
Just above the search results you will see a red link (you need to be logged in!).
"Create the page 'page name' on this wiki!"
When you click this (or any red link in any given article) you will be redirected to the page and can start to edit right away. If NrT doesn't play anymore, please use the old Team template.
Also huge thanks to anyone that already started editing!
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Bisutopia19234 Posts
How do I get Spoiler tags to work on the wiki page? Regular tags don't work it seems.
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haha, now you made me wonder whether it would actually be worth the effort to put in coverage of the D Ranks tournament... :D
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The problem with liquidpedia is that users find it really discouraging that their information can be editted from right to wrong, or that most of the info on there is already wrong so it's hard to want to put up good information, esp. in strategy (probably not much of a problem with basic facts). There isn't really an easy solution to this which is why liquidpedia is an amazing project that never took off the way it should have. I mean it's got good info, but most of that info is just lifted from TLPD so it feels redundant when I could just use that. The other huge problem is that strategy guides take a tonne of work, and you get the most recognition just making a thread for them. and if you're gonna put in all that work just to have some D level player edit your stuff ignorantly not even knowing that the changes they're making are bad... Well I guess that's just my first point. Someone really needs to do some serious thinking about this. Either have some people you know are reasonably competent allow changes only on their approval, or think of something better... system right now just doesn't work for strategy it seems.
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Bisutopia19234 Posts
On June 16 2012 21:10 Chef wrote:
The problem with liquidpedia is that users find it really discouraging that their information can be editted from right to wrong, or that most of the info on there is already wrong so it's hard to want to put up good information, esp. in strategy (probably not much of a problem with basic facts). There isn't really an easy solution to this which is why liquidpedia is an amazing project that never took off the way it should have. I mean it's got good info, but most of that info is just lifted from TLPD so it feels redundant when I could just use that. The other huge problem is that strategy guides take a tonne of work, and you get the most recognition just making a thread for them. and if you're gonna put in all that work just to have some D level player edit your stuff ignorantly not even knowing that the changes they're making are bad... Well I guess that's just my first point. Someone really needs to do some serious thinking about this. Either have some people you know are reasonably competent allow changes only on their approval, or think of something better... system right now just doesn't work for strategy it seems.
Yeah, the strategy portion is something I've always been afraid to touch because I am not a pro therefore don't feel qualified to write in there. However there are plenty of other good sections to dabble in. I"m learning a lot about foreign BW teams through this process. I just created this page: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/NrT
While it's not much it was pretty cool learning new things about the foreign scene while putting together what information I did get for the actual article. And once I'm actually better at formatting I can start doing crazy cool stuff.
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On June 16 2012 21:28 BisuDagger wrote:
Yeah, the strategy portion is something I've always been afraid to touch because I am not a pro therefore don't feel qualified to write in there.
+1, its hard to write "right" stuff without it being wrong....
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On June 16 2012 21:10 Chef wrote:
The problem with liquidpedia is that users find it really discouraging that their information can be editted from right to wrong, or that most of the info on there is already wrong so it's hard to want to put up good information, esp. in strategy (probably not much of a problem with basic facts). There isn't really an easy solution to this which is why liquidpedia is an amazing project that never took off the way it should have. I mean it's got good info, but most of that info is just lifted from TLPD so it feels redundant when I could just use that. The other huge problem is that strategy guides take a tonne of work, and you get the most recognition just making a thread for them. and if you're gonna put in all that work just to have some D level player edit your stuff ignorantly not even knowing that the changes they're making are bad... Well I guess that's just my first point. Someone really needs to do some serious thinking about this. Either have some people you know are reasonably competent allow changes only on their approval, or think of something better... system right now just doesn't work for strategy it seems.
I'm not sure I fully understand.
Is the problem that a) someone could "destory" your work or b) nobody trusts the articles, cause you don't really know where it came from?
I don't think any user should worry to much about this issue, as soon as a page is created, every version will be saved. There is, as far as I know, no more anonymous editing, which should erase both cases completely. Any user that edits any change in will be recorded and the original article can be restored with only two clicks. There are also sections "ordinary" users can't edit, because there either completely cut off from editing or semi protected.
The next thing is that TLPD might be a terrific system for Korea, but when you actually want to search for something big that has happened in the foreign scene (basically something like Sandlot Tournament for example) TLPD has no sources at all. At least most of the events I tried to add have little to no information.
Anyone who edits a wiki should understand the nature of such a portal. Due to its nature it will always change, hence edits are somewhat normal. An Editor should be able to live with the idea, that someone might point out errors or flaws, that's why there are talk pages. It's not a competetion. The same way any user might see his thread closed in strategy forums, when his content sucks or ignorant players saying that it isn't true. The general consent will either back him up or not - depending on the quality of the article. And this works pretty well with Liquipedia, at least in my experience.
There might be the approach to gather a few people that would be generally interested in helping out with strategies and discuss how articles should look in threads created only for this task. I'm sure some of the LP admins would help out. Could something like that help you with doubts about the legitemacy of guides, or make you less worried about trolls touching LP?
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On June 16 2012 21:34 Bakuryu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2012 21:28 BisuDagger wrote:
Yeah, the strategy portion is something I've always been afraid to touch because I am not a pro therefore don't feel qualified to write in there. +1, its hard to write "right" stuff without it being wrong....
When Gecko and I were talking yesterday, I actually said "I hope Bakuryu adds something to the strategy section."
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Bisutopia19234 Posts
Here: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/English_Casters people can add to this. I know the list I made was short. I'm having fun tearing through Liquipedia right now lol. Probably helps that I'm a game developer and just love learning the coding aspect haha.
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Very good initiative, I would like to be of some help to preserve our history. I'll share some of knowledge during my activity on the broodwar scene and I hope I can make a contribution.
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Hyrule19051 Posts
fwiw "PenisPenisVulva" will probably get you banned...
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Exactly, though amazingly the starcraft 2 liquidpedia is garbage compared to brood wars, its like everybody forgot about out beloved liquidpedia. Liquidpedia 1 may be outdated but liquidpedia 2 has almost no content to be outdated.
Both do need a lot of work.
But since there wont be anymore pro matches for brood war and you have production tabs in sc2 VODs, brood war needs it more, even though it is for less people.
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On June 16 2012 21:34 Bakuryu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2012 21:28 BisuDagger wrote:
Yeah, the strategy portion is something I've always been afraid to touch because I am not a pro therefore don't feel qualified to write in there. +1, its hard to write "right" stuff without it being wrong....
Well, there is basic stuff that you know is well founded from studying pro replays and VODs and such, and there is theoretical stuff which is harder to talk about. It is like how real wikipedia works, you want to have at least some citation to add credibility to your arguements (but as far as I know almost none of wiki strategy has citations). I made a guide on Zerg walls using pictures from pro games, stuff like that is fine. I also made a guide for the stove and it was editted in weird ways that didn't make sense and made it sound like shit, so I kinda gave up on it.
I dunno, I really wanna give it another chance, but some things I read on it are just so frustrating that I know there are gonna be 10 people to edit back every 1 thing I could fix. Like sometimes liquid wiki uses weasel words like 'it's said that' or 'many believe' and if you bring it up on the discussion page you actually get people defending it so it feels hopeless. I really would like to add some builds and stuff tho, so I dunno. Maybe the ideal way would be to make a TL thread but format it in such a way that it could be used for liquidpedia too, and then if the liquidpedia gets screwed up at least the thread still exists. Ya there's multiple copies to each page, but no one wants to baby sit pages and no one is gonna look at more than the final draft in 99% of cases...
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On June 17 2012 01:37 Chef wrote:
Like sometimes liquid wiki uses weasel words like 'it's said that' or 'many believe' and if you bring it up on the discussion page you actually get people defending it so it feels hopeless.
i feel the exact same way. imho a big part of the wording needs to be rewritten.... (e.g. in zerg_strategy, down at the ZvZ builds: "This matchup is considered a rock-paper-scissors match between all very low economy builds.")
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Australia1191 Posts
Just to add i created a ton of the older Proleague Pages as Skeletons awhile ago, they just need someone to go through them and add the matches as they occured.
so if anyone is interested in doing that via TLPD match lists, there that.
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United States11390 Posts
On June 17 2012 02:29 Bakuryu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2012 01:37 Chef wrote:
Like sometimes liquid wiki uses weasel words like 'it's said that' or 'many believe' and if you bring it up on the discussion page you actually get people defending it so it feels hopeless. i feel the exact same way. imho a big part of the wording needs to be rewritten.... (e.g. in zerg_strategy, down at the ZvZ builds: "This matchup is considered a rock-paper-scissors match between all very low economy builds.")
Yeah, it's pretty painful to even read.
There is other stuff too like how FD in tvp lists fac cc fac when it's not even an FD at all. (the flash variation part) I pointed this out to Ver a while ago and he just laughed. ;;
I think another overlooked issue people had with editing on LP is that people weren't actually reviewing changes made. Seemed to discourage some from adding/editing LP. This probably won't be an issue anymore though considering this initiative.
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For Strategical pages that absolutely need to be as accurate as possible I think we should follow a template guideline to who ever wish to contribute. A possible guideline is:
Introduction of the strategy (the point of going through this route, a brief history)
Build Order explained in details (reason of building X instead of Y)
Mentality behind it (what to look for, deviation at specific circumstances)
Possible transition (Any other plan followup)
Strengths should add evidence to back it up
Weaknesses also require evidences.
Examples and replays
If one can't formulate according to the above template with coherency, then they are simply not experienced yet.
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im interested in editing the strategy forum. any suggestions of where i should start? edit: strategy section i mean
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Hahaha I found the same thing here just now as I did when I tried editing a few different pages of Liquipedia back when SC2 Beta came. I corrected some stats(noticed difference from 2 other sources, one being SC2 Armory, I forget the other), waited for approval by a mod/admin, 2 months later, nothing. As a result I'm left with no reason to edit since it seems that it will be forever ignored.
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Hyrule19051 Posts
On June 17 2012 08:52 FyRe_DragOn wrote:
im interested in editing the strategy forum. any suggestions of where i should start? edit: strategy section i mean
Know what you're talking about in regards to strategy. I don't mean "high masters" either, we want people who make it their life to know this stuff to help us out...
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On June 17 2012 09:41 tofucake wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2012 08:52 FyRe_DragOn wrote:
im interested in editing the strategy forum. any suggestions of where i should start? edit: strategy section i mean Know what you're talking about in regards to strategy. I don't mean "high masters" either, we want people who make it their life to know this stuff to help us out...
high masters? the fuck are u talking about, this is bw. and i do know what im talking about, im a top foreigner.
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On June 17 2012 09:41 tofucake wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2012 08:52 FyRe_DragOn wrote:
im interested in editing the strategy forum. any suggestions of where i should start? edit: strategy section i mean Know what you're talking about in regards to strategy. I don't mean "high masters" either, we want people who make it their life to know this stuff to help us out...
sooo... "gold"?
I heard that random metals make excellent liquipedia editors. Despite the fact that they have no means of communication or typing, i think we need more "golds" and "tungstens" and "Cesiums" to edit liquipedia. In fact, i'll get my light bulb to do it. It has tungsten in it and tungsten has the highest melting point so you know it can take the heat for getting strategy wrong.
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Im also interested in updating strategy sections on this website.
I would be very happy to settle for just one map per season, cross positions only, and 3 builds per matchup maximum.
Its important not to be over ambitious. And we could always add to this later if we still have motivation.
My suggestion would be Circuit Breakers.
Additionally, heres some things Ive spotted that could be done to improve the website. Below is a redraft of an old post of mine from a different thread:
+ Show Spoiler +Ideas to improve teamliquid. 1. Add build order tags to each game in the TLPD. So each game would have a few tags shared between Opening, midgame, and late game style. You could then sort the database using these tags. 2. Add start position tags to each game in the TLPD. You could then choose your map (Circuit Breakers), then start position (left vs right) (top vs bottom) or (cross positions). 3. Reorganise/add to Liquipedia. Rather than search by matchup then build order like at the moment, you would search by map, then by start position, then by matchup. 4. Update TLPD team pages, Team 8 isnt there etc. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/teams 5. Show the teams that retired players used to be in. Show the teams active players have previously been in. 6. Allow a way to display 2 build orders side by side with Time on the y axis. Also, separate columns for depots, scvs, gas buildings, support buildings, units. And finally spaces for interactions (scouting, harass, fights, movement).
If anyone is going to do a strategy article on their own, it would probably be best if you post your intention in this thread so we dont do the same thing I guess.
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#1 and #6 are awesome ideas that id love to see come to fruition
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Hungary11291 Posts
On June 17 2012 09:24 3FFA wrote:
Hahaha I found the same thing here just now as I did when I tried editing a few different pages of Liquipedia back when SC2 Beta came. I corrected some stats(noticed difference from 2 other sources, one being SC2 Armory, I forget the other), waited for approval by a mod/admin, 2 months later, nothing. As a result I'm left with no reason to edit since it seems that it will be forever ignored.
As for reviews, I admit that they can be slow at times, but many people (including me and probably most registered users) display the draft page anyway - so your edits are not in vain, even if not reviewed
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I have some very refined builds that I can add but since I reformat my PC I have to re-write the word docs from scratch by viewing some reps... shouldnt take too long
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Hyrule19051 Posts
On June 17 2012 10:21 FyRe_DragOn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2012 09:41 tofucake wrote:On June 17 2012 08:52 FyRe_DragOn wrote:
im interested in editing the strategy forum. any suggestions of where i should start? edit: strategy section i mean Know what you're talking about in regards to strategy. I don't mean "high masters" either, we want people who make it their life to know this stuff to help us out... high masters? the fuck are u talking about, this is bw. and i do know what im talking about, im a top foreigner.
Yeah but people are bad yo.
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@ tofucake, im at least 1300 fish and a- iccup, but if thats not good enough for you, your loss. I wont put in effort where its not appreciated
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Hyrule19051 Posts
nah that's fine. we'd love your contributions.
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A lot of the build order info (especially for terran) is very much underdeveloped. That's important enough to fix because it's a major part of what people look at.
Only zerg BOs are somewhat adequately explained.
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Hey FyRe, have you uploaded a rep pack anywhere?
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Bisutopia19234 Posts
On June 18 2012 02:49 Lightwip wrote:
A lot of the build order info (especially for terran) is very much underdeveloped. That's important enough to fix because it's a major part of what people look at.
Only zerg BOs are somewhat adequately explained.
Happy Birthday Lightwhip.
As far as strategy section is concerned. If people could find good game vods displaying the build orders then it would be easier for other people break down the events in the strategy.
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On June 18 2012 03:27 0mgVitaminE wrote:
Hey FyRe, have you uploaded a rep pack anywhere?
a long time ago, a new one should b forthcoming soon i think
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I just want to say that although I support this 100%, I just don't think revising and updating strategies would serve very much of a purpose.
I peaked at B- during my iccup times and after about 10 months of SC2 and zero BW, I couldn't execute ANY build properly considering I play Terran.
Therefore, just the general macro advice of screen hotkeys, macro cycle tips, etc. would more than suffice, especially since the skill level of BW will unfortunately only continue to drop.
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On June 19 2012 16:45 EngrishTeacher wrote:
I just want to say that although I support this 100%, I just don't think revising and updating strategies would serve very much of a purpose.
I peaked at B- during my iccup times and after about 10 months of SC2 and zero BW, I couldn't execute ANY build properly considering I play Terran.
Therefore, just the general macro advice of screen hotkeys, macro cycle tips, etc. would more than suffice, especially since the skill level of BW will unfortunately only continue to drop.
there are still people that dont play sc2
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On June 19 2012 16:45 EngrishTeacher wrote:
I just want to say that although I support this 100%, I just don't think revising and updating strategies would serve very much of a purpose.
I peaked at B- during my iccup times and after about 10 months of SC2 and zero BW, I couldn't execute ANY build properly considering I play Terran.
Therefore, just the general macro advice of screen hotkeys, macro cycle tips, etc. would more than suffice, especially since the skill level of BW will unfortunately only continue to drop.
Ok, so, don't take this the wrong way, I think you have a point, although you are arguement is kinda flawed here. I do agree that beginners are often seeing the mechanics as a tough problem. Sadly, there are only few guides and none of them were in the Liquipedia. I'm currently trying to form a beginners portal, that includes a write up for "how to learn mechanics". (OP->SandBoxPortal)
However, training the mechanics is easy, the general concept behind routines and learning short cuts is doable for any person and does take only time, not more. Understanding the depth of Brood War and when to use what Build on the other hand isn't. There need to be good and current builds, you can't just use outdated builds that maybe were taylored for maps and strategies used years ago.
If you actually were B-, you would have quite an easy time to at least get back to the C ranks without having so much problems with your mechanics. Mechanics aren't things you un-learn quickly if you once really broke a certain level. I saw a lot of players trying on Brood War again lately after a being gone for long, most of them were in the blue ranks before that. dOTY for one, other clan allies... most of them were not exactly as good as they used to be but above average in a very short time. Those, however, were players that have been way above average casual play for a few years, maybe even top in their respective nations.
It seems contradictory that you assume you lost because of bad mechanics and THEN come to the conclusion the rest of the players got worse and still lose skill. This seems more like an (ir)rational excuse for your bad play rather than a conclusion based on facts. If the scene was dropping talents, you wouldn't have a big problem to get back to where you were, if not higher. Sure, the ICC ranks inflated since Koreans left, but that doesn't mean the skill of the foreign scene shifted; I dare say it maintained a really high level after most of the good players were gone. The gap in the top ranks was temporary, now it closed on big parts, but with less players remaining there. Don't make the mistake to think ICC Ranks would truely indicate skill.
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i will work on chinese liquipedia pages as i get the time to
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Just worked on the 6 hatch page a lot, but I mainly play the hydra builds. You should get Harem to work on them and do the muta builds too.
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I'm too bad to contribute, so I'll just leave a thank you.
Your work is appreciated
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On July 07 2012 06:17 ghrur wrote:
Just worked on the 6 hatch page a lot, but I mainly play the hydra builds. You should get Harem to work on them and do the muta builds too.
Cool... I've actually been looking for info on this, but haven't seen much.
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ive decided not to edit liquipedia for the time being. I PM'd Pholon about adding something i feel is important to the strategy section, have still not received a reply after like 2 weeks. Ive become pretty busy lately with life and have decided to switch race to all protoss (instead of zvp) so my time is limited for shit like this. I may post strategy guides or something similar in the future, which could be added to liquipedia, but not promising anything.
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On July 07 2012 06:17 ghrur wrote:
Just worked on the 6 hatch page a lot, but I mainly play the hydra builds. You should get Harem to work on them and do the muta builds too.
hmm id like to read your work but cant find it anywhere. link?
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On July 07 2012 12:10 FyRe_DragOn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2012 06:17 ghrur wrote:
Just worked on the 6 hatch page a lot, but I mainly play the hydra builds. You should get Harem to work on them and do the muta builds too. hmm id like to read your work but cant find it anywhere. link?
He didn't link it in the ZvP strategy section, but here it is: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/6_hatch_(vs._Protoss)
Edit: article needs more DragOn.
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If build orders keep getting updated it will be so much easier to get into ICCUP laddering. I would like to thank in advance any one who can write out the build orders that are current.
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would it be possible to have a ranking page for the top active BW foreigners that gets updated once per month?
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On July 07 2012 11:49 FyRe_DragOn wrote:
ive decided not to edit liquipedia for the time being. I PM'd Pholon about adding something i feel is important to the strategy section, have still not received a reply after like 2 weeks. Ive become pretty busy lately with life and have decided to switch race to all protoss (instead of zvp) so my time is limited for shit like this. I may post strategy guides or something similar in the future, which could be added to liquipedia, but not promising anything.
What stopped you from you editing on your own? Pholon has a life too, it's not like you're a special little flower completely different from the rest. Even if you really needed help there are dozen other admins and the IRC Channel you can visit to get answers
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So I found out today an account that previously held a lot of VODs for MSL matches was terminated from YouTube, and I've been working on trying to replace all the terminated links with nevake's, but I have to go soon, so if anyone can help me out with that, I'd greatly appreciate it. I'm currently doing the 2010 Hana Daetoo Securities MSL, but I'm pretty sure there's plenty others.
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On July 07 2012 16:23 Gecko[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2012 11:49 FyRe_DragOn wrote:
ive decided not to edit liquipedia for the time being. I PM'd Pholon about adding something i feel is important to the strategy section, have still not received a reply after like 2 weeks. Ive become pretty busy lately with life and have decided to switch race to all protoss (instead of zvp) so my time is limited for shit like this. I may post strategy guides or something similar in the future, which could be added to liquipedia, but not promising anything. What stopped you from you editing on your own? Pholon has a life too, it's not like you're a special little flower completely different from the rest. Even if you really needed help there are dozen other admins and the IRC Channel you can visit to get answers
copyright issues stopped me. And yeah its not like im a special little flower, and nothing to suggest that either. I was directed to pholon so i asked him. If i "really" needed help id ask the highest authority on the subject, which i did.
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On July 08 2012 08:23 FyRe_DragOn wrote:
copyright issues stopped me. And yeah its not like im a special little flower, and nothing to suggest that either. I was directed to pholon so i asked him. If i "really" needed help id ask the highest authority on the subject, which i did.
Copyright issues on strategy guides? That sounds interesting. Anyhow, I get most answers a lot faster when I join the IRC and just ask. Even LP2 staff can help out with all kind of question (wiki code, conventions, ..., even copyright issues) and they usually do. I might misinterpret your posts and you might've encountered something unique with whatever you had in mind, if so I'm sorry, but you come across quite... loaded so to speak. Still, help would be appriciated, but I don't think there is need to phrase it as "shit like this".
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by shit i just meant "stuff", not garbage or excrement. I didnt mean to sound derogatory. Perhaps you can help me?
this is the message i sent pholon:
Hello, I am attempting to start editing liquipedia and would like to include some information from this page http://www.artofprotoss.vze.com/ under "abstract gameplay concepts". What is the proper procedure for doing so? Can I copy/paste sections and then credit hautamaki for it, or just link to the article or what? I think the info is really important, and probably overlooked because it is so old. I just dont want to "steal" his/their work. Thanks for any help
I wanted to add the part under Hautamaki's Intro titled "Starcraft Theory: Timing" to liquipedia so I could reference it in any other strategy contributions I made, and just as a useful tool for players in general.
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On July 08 2012 10:55 FyRe_DragOn wrote:by shit i just meant "stuff", not garbage or excrement. I didnt mean to sound derogatory. Perhaps you can help me? this is the message i sent pholon: Show nested quote +Hello, I am attempting to start editing liquipedia and would like to include some information from this page http://www.artofprotoss.vze.com/ under "abstract gameplay concepts". What is the proper procedure for doing so? Can I copy/paste sections and then credit hautamaki for it, or just link to the article or what? I think the info is really important, and probably overlooked because it is so old. I just dont want to "steal" his/their work. Thanks for any help I wanted to add the part under Hautamaki's Intro titled "Starcraft Theory: Timing" to liquipedia so I could reference it in any other strategy contributions I made, and just as a useful tool for players in general.
I'm not totally sure I understand what you had in mind. I kept comparing Hautamaki's intro to what is on LP1 and saw that there might be points missing. It really depends on what you're planning to do. First off, the rule of thumb is that you shouldn't simply paste entire articles into the wiki without paraphrasing them at least. Most of the articles do not meet the style guide/conventions in the first place and might be outdated either way. What I gathered from skimming over the part you mentioned, some sort of summary should be done before it is "pasted" into the wiki.
Also, I'm not completely sure, but I think there is no copy right on pure ideas, at least not in the same sense that you have copy rights over a piece of art or an invention. You wouldn't copyright the idea of gravity so to speak.
I guess if you re-write (!) the article or the paragraph that you had in mind (what you should be doing either way) you can either add Hautamaki's page under "Futher Literature" or add ref-tags to special paragraphs or direct quotes. However, an article should never be dominated by a flood of quotes imo.
This way you should be fine and the authors would get credit for their work.
Maybe, to be 100% sure, you could also write KnickKnack a PM, I'm quite sure he visits TL every now and then.
I hope that was helpful.
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7/9 I'm looking for people with basic chinese reading skills and english proficiency to help update liquipedia since Liansai has a pretty good data base. Please PM me if you are interested.
我要找会读中文和有英文基础的人帮我更新星际wiki - Liquipedia -。使用liansai.net的数据库。有兴趣PM我。
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About to fix the dead VODs for the 2010 Bigfile MSL, then later I might try to add all the VODs for the 2009 NATE MSL. If anyone can help, that would be greatly appreciated.
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I studied a lot of NonY's replays from when he was practicing for TSL2 and I got some of his PvT and PvZ builds done fairly nicely - I'll add them when I have time.
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This is one of the reasons why Pholon added the policy pages and why I bumped the thread. The a double entry in this category exists, because the template was used twice (user page + player page). Gonna change that in a bit.
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Hi, i read the OP but i can see anywhere i can edit TLPD. I was looking on Boxer profile and noticed that his BW TLPD was not showing the result of his showmatch VS Yellow. I search an edit button but didn't find one.
I kind of understood that TLPD was not LiquidPedia but how can i edit ? I can't do much to help Brood War even if i want to but when i saw this i wondered.
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Hungary11291 Posts
On August 10 2012 22:26 FFW_Rude wrote:
Hi, i read the OP but i can see anywhere i can edit TLPD. I was looking on Boxer profile and noticed that his BW TLPD was not showing the result of his showmatch VS Yellow. I search an edit button but didn't find one.
I kind of understood that TLPD was not LiquidPedia but how can i edit ? I can't do much to help Brood War even if i want to but when i saw this i wondered.
TLPD can only be edited by tlpd staff to ensure consistent quality of input. You can report issues like this in the tlpd feedback thread.
On Liquipedia, however, anyone can edit. Feel free to!
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On August 10 2012 23:02 Aesop wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 22:26 FFW_Rude wrote:
Hi, i read the OP but i can see anywhere i can edit TLPD. I was looking on Boxer profile and noticed that his BW TLPD was not showing the result of his showmatch VS Yellow. I search an edit button but didn't find one.
I kind of understood that TLPD was not LiquidPedia but how can i edit ? I can't do much to help Brood War even if i want to but when i saw this i wondered. TLPD can only be edited by tlpd staff to ensure consistent quality of input. You can report issues like this in the tlpd feedback thread.On Liquipedia, however, anyone can edit. Feel free to!
Oh ok thank you. I won't edit liquidpedia i don't have a lot to write
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Hyrule19051 Posts
Plenty of edits don't require writing a lot. Fact checking, adding sources, typos, and other things like that are all welcome changes.
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Something i could not found is Lurker stacking, which is really good to know at zvt. I would like to add a description but i dont know where exactly to insert it...like at "Unit Lurker" in Liquipedia or at the main overview for zvt were Hold Lurker are explained.
And here it how it goes:
-burrow one lurker
-select another lurker and move over the first one
-when the second lurker is above the burrowed lurker, rightklick on it so the second lurker will stop at top of the burrowed lurker
-when you burrow your second lurker, the opponent will not be able to see 2 lurkers, just one like normal
For a long time i thought it is just a timing thing with walk and burrow untill Bakuryu told me how to do it really. And this "trick" is easy to do after a few minutes of training and can get good results, so it should be a part of liquipedia
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I could help out if you guys wants some help. PM me if you guys are interested.
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Hong Kong9154 Posts
Just log onto Liquipedia, using your TL account info, and get cracking, lots of things need work. I outlined a pretty sizable starting list of stuff in my blog about this on TL here.
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On August 20 2012 08:30 greenelve wrote:
Something i could not found is Lurker stacking, which is really good to know at zvt. I would like to add a description but i dont know where exactly to insert it...like at "Unit Lurker" in Liquipedia or at the main overview for zvt were Hold Lurker are explained.
And here it how it goes:
-burrow one lurker
-select another lurker and move over the first one
-when the second lurker is above the burrowed lurker, rightklick on it so the second lurker will stop at top of the burrowed lurker
-when you burrow your second lurker, the opponent will not be able to see 2 lurkers, just one like normal
For a long time i thought it is just a timing thing with walk and burrow untill Bakuryu told me how to do it really. And this "trick" is easy to do after a few minutes of training and can get good results, so it should be a part of liquipedia
That would be useful if it satisfies one condition. And that one condition is the lack of Siege Tanks. By having all of your underground spiders lying in one single hex, you are prone to getting them ALL splashed at the same time and risking losing them at once.
I think a more useful application of the trick is to place the Lurkers on top of each other at the ramp with an Overlord's shadow looming on the upper level of the units while holding them. The Terran would then proceed on scanning, thinking that the shadow belongs to the Overlord and not the Lurkers'. And he would most definitely take this opportunity to punish that early third. What he doesn't know is that nasty little gift basket that lies underground waiting for him to pick up.
As good as that sound, it does require an extreme minimap awareness on the incoming units. If you let the units attack too soon, the Terran would just obliterate the defense and the Zerg would be in a tight situation and that would mean losing the expansion. And if you let them go too late, well, the product would be equally devastating.
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On August 20 2012 08:57 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 08:30 greenelve wrote:
Something i could not found is Lurker stacking, which is really good to know at zvt. I would like to add a description but i dont know where exactly to insert it...like at "Unit Lurker" in Liquipedia or at the main overview for zvt were Hold Lurker are explained.
And here it how it goes:
-burrow one lurker
-select another lurker and move over the first one
-when the second lurker is above the burrowed lurker, rightklick on it so the second lurker will stop at top of the burrowed lurker
-when you burrow your second lurker, the opponent will not be able to see 2 lurkers, just one like normal
For a long time i thought it is just a timing thing with walk and burrow untill Bakuryu told me how to do it really. And this "trick" is easy to do after a few minutes of training and can get good results, so it should be a part of liquipedia That would be useful if it satisfies one condition. And that one condition is the lack of Siege Tanks. By having all of your underground spiders lying in one single hex, you are prone to getting them ALL splashed at the same time and risking losing them at once. I think a more useful application of the trick is to place the Lurkers on top of each other at the ramp with an Overlord's shadow looming on the upper level of the units while holding them. The Terran would then proceed on scanning, thinking that the shadow belongs to the Overlord and not the Lurkers'. And he would most definitely take this opportunity to punish that early third. What he doesn't know is that nasty little gift basket that lies underground waiting for him to pick up. As good as that sound, it does require an extreme minimap awareness on the incoming units. If you let the units attack too soon, the Terran would just obliterate the defense and the Zerg would be in a tight situation and that would mean losing the expansion. And if you let them go too late, well, the product would be equally devastating.
Well, normally this technique is used with 2 lurkers to defend the ramp at the third against the first marine push. Ofcourse it is not good vs tanks but it is something even korean pros are using. If the terran has enough tank(s) to push out, usually he will have a vessel by his army too.
And im not talking about hold lurker, this is different.
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On August 20 2012 09:03 greenelve wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 08:57 Xiphos wrote:On August 20 2012 08:30 greenelve wrote:
Something i could not found is Lurker stacking, which is really good to know at zvt. I would like to add a description but i dont know where exactly to insert it...like at "Unit Lurker" in Liquipedia or at the main overview for zvt were Hold Lurker are explained.
And here it how it goes:
-burrow one lurker
-select another lurker and move over the first one
-when the second lurker is above the burrowed lurker, rightklick on it so the second lurker will stop at top of the burrowed lurker
-when you burrow your second lurker, the opponent will not be able to see 2 lurkers, just one like normal
For a long time i thought it is just a timing thing with walk and burrow untill Bakuryu told me how to do it really. And this "trick" is easy to do after a few minutes of training and can get good results, so it should be a part of liquipedia That would be useful if it satisfies one condition. And that one condition is the lack of Siege Tanks. By having all of your underground spiders lying in one single hex, you are prone to getting them ALL splashed at the same time and risking losing them at once. I think a more useful application of the trick is to place the Lurkers on top of each other at the ramp with an Overlord's shadow looming on the upper level of the units while holding them. The Terran would then proceed on scanning, thinking that the shadow belongs to the Overlord and not the Lurkers'. And he would most definitely take this opportunity to punish that early third. What he doesn't know is that nasty little gift basket that lies underground waiting for him to pick up. As good as that sound, it does require an extreme minimap awareness on the incoming units. If you let the units attack too soon, the Terran would just obliterate the defense and the Zerg would be in a tight situation and that would mean losing the expansion. And if you let them go too late, well, the product would be equally devastating. Well, normally this technique is used with 2 lurkers to defend the ramp at the third against the first marine push. Ofcourse it is not good vs tanks but it is something even korean pros are using. If the terran has enough tank(s) to push out, usually he will have a vessel by his army too. And im not talking about hold lurker, this is different.
I do believe that the hold lurker + Overlord hiding its existence in conjunction with the current subject that you are trying to relate makes a very tricky concept to toy around when facing against Terran. It have a better potential then just simply burrowing one unit on top of another kind of deal.
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Netherlands6142 Posts
Made a small start for you. From here on out it's just copy/paste/filling out. gl hf!
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On September 05 2012 06:46 Pholon wrote:
Made a small start for you. From here on out it's just copy/paste/filling out. gl hf!
Thanks!
I ended up using the Match template instead of match summary so that it shows the races.
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Thanks, already added a few of these to player's achievement boxes a while ago, along with an update on some clan pages. WGTour definitely deserves a page, but it'll be hell to gather more info about it. If someone looks for a project, here it is.
Also, added the Lords of War event.
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Is the site still existing where you could look up PGtour stats?
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just put the exact url on web.archive.org and try if there is some data.
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I would really enjoy an article about the korean clan scene. Especially the older clans, but my own wisdom on this topic is too limited.
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Hong Kong9154 Posts
On October 28 2012 04:49 thezanursic wrote:http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Main_Page More of these. More Front page articles. A step in the right direction if you ask me! We should also get a page where all current and near future events are listed.
Glad you like it! As for the second part, things are in progress, I think.
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I noticed that the Slovenia flag wasn't listed so I uploaded it on to Liquipedia (or if it was I can't find it) I tried to use it to update DRATL, but I couldn't use the file.
How do I use a file to display as a flag. My file is in 18x12 btw!
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Magic Woods9326 Posts
On November 18 2012 08:33 thezanursic wrote:
I noticed that the Slovenia flag wasn't listed so I uploaded it on to Liquipedia (or if it was I can't find it) I tried to use it to update DRATL, but I couldn't use the file.
How do I use a file to display as a flag. My file is in 18x12 btw!
Done
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Template:Flag/doc
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On November 18 2012 09:10 Epoxide wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 08:33 thezanursic wrote:
I noticed that the Slovenia flag wasn't listed so I uploaded it on to Liquipedia (or if it was I can't find it) I tried to use it to update DRATL, but I couldn't use the file.
How do I use a file to display as a flag. My file is in 18x12 btw! Done http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Template:Flag/doc
Ohh it's there nvm
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Magic Woods9326 Posts
On November 18 2012 09:57 thezanursic wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 09:10 Epoxide wrote:On November 18 2012 08:33 thezanursic wrote:
I noticed that the Slovenia flag wasn't listed so I uploaded it on to Liquipedia (or if it was I can't find it) I tried to use it to update DRATL, but I couldn't use the file.
How do I use a file to display as a flag. My file is in 18x12 btw! Done http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Template:Flag/doc Ohh it's there nvm
Because I put it there after your post
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For people that want to help, but don't know what to help with or how to do it - we need more tournament pages.
Here is my personal list of tournaments/events without a page. (Message me if you want to add/remove tournaments to the list.) It's somewhat long, so there's lots to contribute. I was working on adding new pages with Mewka (who's on fire lately :D), and other people are adding different tournaments as well. I don't have much time at the moment, so any help is appreciated.
Some are very small and easy or have everything on display already and you just need to copy the information. Some of the tournaments don't have enough information, so you can skip those or try to ask the organizers/involved people for information if you feel like a detective. Others are ongoing and just need an update.
If you don't know how to do stuff, just open up some other similar tournament and copy the style/code. Try to find the newest tournament pages to copy from as those are most in line with the "current standard" - Torenhire Starleague is probably the best at the moment (and is featured on the Main Page).
You can find others at Leagues and Leagues (Foreign) or even SC2 - lots of SC2 tournaments are well done, so you can copy from those as well. Once we get most of the tournaments covered we can start revising and modernizing old tournament pages or if you feel like it, you can do it now. :D
If you need any help or a new template feel free to ask. Don't worry too much about making a mistake, people will edit and correct/change them when they see them - just adding more pages/information is huge.
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Magic Woods9326 Posts
PM me if you need something reviewed
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Sorry to bump this, but I'm going to try to start adding/fixing up the 2003-2005 Proleague matches with vods, player and matchup info, and general cleanup soon, so if anyone can help me, that'd be greatly appreciated.
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i updated the Stammkneipe League top 3 but there is still a lot missing.
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On December 09 2012 10:29 plasmidghost wrote:
Sorry to bump this, but I'm going to try to start adding/fixing up the 2003-2005 Proleague matches with vods, player and matchup info, and general cleanup soon, so if anyone can help me, that'd be greatly appreciated.
Sorry, I'd help you but I'm swamped with adding missing/new tournaments and fixing some old ones (plus RL). :<
I might check to see what I can help with, but I can't promise anything.
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I can't link because I am on my phone, but in the MSL thread some of the players aren't represented correctly for instance Savior isn't listed on the medal count at all.
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On March 04 2013 07:58 thezanursic wrote:
I can't link because I am on my phone, but in the MSL thread some of the players aren't represented correctly for instance Savior isn't listed on the medal count at all.
That's a question best answered by itsjustatank:
+ Show Spoiler +
for the love of god, please post after me or this looks stupid
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Hong Kong9154 Posts
On March 04 2013 08:20 Gecko[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2013 07:58 thezanursic wrote:
I can't link because I am on my phone, but in the MSL thread some of the players aren't represented correctly for instance Savior isn't listed on the medal count at all. That's a question best answered by itsjustatank: + Show Spoiler +
for the love of god, please post after me or this looks stupid
Those medals no longer exist
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On March 04 2013 08:21 itsjustatank wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2013 08:20 Gecko[Xp] wrote:On March 04 2013 07:58 thezanursic wrote:
I can't link because I am on my phone, but in the MSL thread some of the players aren't represented correctly for instance Savior isn't listed on the medal count at all. That's a question best answered by itsjustatank: + Show Spoiler +
for the love of god, please post after me or this looks stupid
Those medals no longer exist
Where did they go?
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Hong Kong9154 Posts
On March 04 2013 08:25 Hier wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2013 08:21 itsjustatank wrote:On March 04 2013 08:20 Gecko[Xp] wrote:On March 04 2013 07:58 thezanursic wrote:
I can't link because I am on my phone, but in the MSL thread some of the players aren't represented correctly for instance Savior isn't listed on the medal count at all. That's a question best answered by itsjustatank: + Show Spoiler +
for the love of god, please post after me or this looks stupid
Those medals no longer exist Where did they go?
Perhaps you should ask him where he threw them, along with the games and matches and the future of brood war.
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On March 04 2013 08:30 itsjustatank wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2013 08:25 Hier wrote:On March 04 2013 08:21 itsjustatank wrote:On March 04 2013 08:20 Gecko[Xp] wrote:On March 04 2013 07:58 thezanursic wrote:
I can't link because I am on my phone, but in the MSL thread some of the players aren't represented correctly for instance Savior isn't listed on the medal count at all. That's a question best answered by itsjustatank: + Show Spoiler +
for the love of god, please post after me or this looks stupid
Those medals no longer exist Where did they go? Perhaps you should ask him where he threw them, along with the games and matches and the future of brood war.
Trying to change history because he was an ass later on is meaningless
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On March 04 2013 08:42 thezanursic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2013 08:30 itsjustatank wrote:On March 04 2013 08:25 Hier wrote:On March 04 2013 08:21 itsjustatank wrote:On March 04 2013 08:20 Gecko[Xp] wrote:On March 04 2013 07:58 thezanursic wrote:
I can't link because I am on my phone, but in the MSL thread some of the players aren't represented correctly for instance Savior isn't listed on the medal count at all. That's a question best answered by itsjustatank: + Show Spoiler +
for the love of god, please post after me or this looks stupid
Those medals no longer exist Where did they go? Perhaps you should ask him where he threw them, along with the games and matches and the future of brood war. Trying to change history because he was an ass later on is meaningless
I had the same problem understanding why his wins were not recorded anymore (because he didn't throw his wins... most likely). The thing is, they really are not there anymore, that's KeSPA policy. His records were officially erased so to speak. To still list them would be changing history. It makes sense, regardless on your opinion of savior, because it shows his status in the KeSPA ranking. Only KeSPA gets to decide, not the editors. It's also explained on his player page as well as on other pages about the match fixing incident. I hope that explains it.
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Hong Kong9154 Posts
On March 04 2013 08:42 thezanursic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2013 08:30 itsjustatank wrote:On March 04 2013 08:25 Hier wrote:On March 04 2013 08:21 itsjustatank wrote:On March 04 2013 08:20 Gecko[Xp] wrote:On March 04 2013 07:58 thezanursic wrote:
I can't link because I am on my phone, but in the MSL thread some of the players aren't represented correctly for instance Savior isn't listed on the medal count at all. That's a question best answered by itsjustatank: + Show Spoiler +
for the love of god, please post after me or this looks stupid
Those medals no longer exist Where did they go? Perhaps you should ask him where he threw them, along with the games and matches and the future of brood war. Trying to change history because he was an ass later on is meaningless
Changing history would be to imply he still has wins that KeSPA has vacated.
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On March 04 2013 08:30 itsjustatank wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2013 08:25 Hier wrote:On March 04 2013 08:21 itsjustatank wrote:On March 04 2013 08:20 Gecko[Xp] wrote:On March 04 2013 07:58 thezanursic wrote:
I can't link because I am on my phone, but in the MSL thread some of the players aren't represented correctly for instance Savior isn't listed on the medal count at all. That's a question best answered by itsjustatank: + Show Spoiler +
for the love of god, please post after me or this looks stupid
Those medals no longer exist Where did they go? Perhaps you should ask him where he threw them, along with the games and matches and the future of brood war.
This is absolutely irrelevant. That medal count is simply a summary of the amount of first and second places a player has gotten, and that cannot change. KeSPA can do whatever they want with their history books, why are we erasing data instead of putting an asterisk next to it?
Did someone forget to edit the OSL page?
Luxury was removed for the same reason?
This is a total mess.
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On March 04 2013 09:06 Hier wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2013 08:30 itsjustatank wrote:On March 04 2013 08:25 Hier wrote:On March 04 2013 08:21 itsjustatank wrote:On March 04 2013 08:20 Gecko[Xp] wrote:On March 04 2013 07:58 thezanursic wrote:
I can't link because I am on my phone, but in the MSL thread some of the players aren't represented correctly for instance Savior isn't listed on the medal count at all. That's a question best answered by itsjustatank: + Show Spoiler +
for the love of god, please post after me or this looks stupid
Those medals no longer exist Where did they go? Perhaps you should ask him where he threw them, along with the games and matches and the future of brood war. This is absolutely irrelevant. That medal count is simply a summary of the amount of first and second places a player has gotten, and that cannot change. KeSPA can do whatever they want with their history books, why are we erasing data instead of putting an asterisk next to it? Did someone forget to edit the OSL page? Luxury was removed for the same reason? This is a total mess.
There is no erasing of data. He simply has no medal anymore, his win is not official anymore. We can't list something he does not have, right?
The tournament pages itself appear to be correct - every win and every loss is listed, he is simply not the champion of that league anymore.
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It's dumb.
But whatever, if it really makes you feel better...
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On March 04 2013 09:33 Gecko[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2013 09:06 Hier wrote:On March 04 2013 08:30 itsjustatank wrote:On March 04 2013 08:25 Hier wrote:On March 04 2013 08:21 itsjustatank wrote:On March 04 2013 08:20 Gecko[Xp] wrote:On March 04 2013 07:58 thezanursic wrote:
I can't link because I am on my phone, but in the MSL thread some of the players aren't represented correctly for instance Savior isn't listed on the medal count at all. That's a question best answered by itsjustatank: + Show Spoiler +
for the love of god, please post after me or this looks stupid
Those medals no longer exist Where did they go? Perhaps you should ask him where he threw them, along with the games and matches and the future of brood war. This is absolutely irrelevant. That medal count is simply a summary of the amount of first and second places a player has gotten, and that cannot change. KeSPA can do whatever they want with their history books, why are we erasing data instead of putting an asterisk next to it? Did someone forget to edit the OSL page? Luxury was removed for the same reason? This is a total mess. There is no erasing of data. He simply has no medal anymore, his win is not official anymore. We can't list something he does not have, right? The tournament pages itself appear to be correct - every win and every loss is listed, he is simply not the champion of that league anymore.
Can you provide a source on that, and what you said in your previous post? What was the exact wording? As far as I was aware KeSPA has confiscated all his awards for which he would have to get nominated (ie. something he did not clearly win). OGN is still brandishing his OSL win on their Wall of Fame, not exactly burning the books on him, as you have made it seem.
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Hong Kong9154 Posts
On March 04 2013 09:58 Hier wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2013 09:33 Gecko[Xp] wrote:On March 04 2013 09:06 Hier wrote:On March 04 2013 08:30 itsjustatank wrote:On March 04 2013 08:25 Hier wrote:On March 04 2013 08:21 itsjustatank wrote:On March 04 2013 08:20 Gecko[Xp] wrote:On March 04 2013 07:58 thezanursic wrote:
I can't link because I am on my phone, but in the MSL thread some of the players aren't represented correctly for instance Savior isn't listed on the medal count at all. That's a question best answered by itsjustatank: + Show Spoiler +
for the love of god, please post after me or this looks stupid
Those medals no longer exist Where did they go? Perhaps you should ask him where he threw them, along with the games and matches and the future of brood war. This is absolutely irrelevant. That medal count is simply a summary of the amount of first and second places a player has gotten, and that cannot change. KeSPA can do whatever they want with their history books, why are we erasing data instead of putting an asterisk next to it? Did someone forget to edit the OSL page? Luxury was removed for the same reason? This is a total mess. There is no erasing of data. He simply has no medal anymore, his win is not official anymore. We can't list something he does not have, right? The tournament pages itself appear to be correct - every win and every loss is listed, he is simply not the champion of that league anymore. Can you provide a source on that, and what you said in your previous post? What was the exact wording? As far as I was aware KeSPA has confiscated all his awards for which he would have to get nominated (ie. something he did not clearly win). OGN is still brandishing his OSL win on their Wall of Fame, not exactly burning the books on him, as you have made it seem.
brandishing
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/YJFHEZH.jpg)
(Photo: Carlton Beener)
brandishing
Absolutely no policy of "condemnation of memory" going on here. Clearly not. All of the other slots on that wall look just like that. Please educate yourself about the Match Fixing Scandal before continuing with the attempts at constructing an apologetics for the matchfixing scum.
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I'm a fan of SaviOr's play and the presence he brought, but I do not support his match fixing, and I agree with itsjustatank.
You can check something similar:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Tour_de_France_winners#By_year
Scroll down and you'll see the wins by Lance Armstrong have been vacated. Surely Wikipedia knows better than you.
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@itsjustatank
No need for sarcasm. I do not need to educate myself on the match fixing scandal, thank you. My choice of terminology, however, still stands; despite the missing photo his win is still very much recognised. I originally asked for a source of Gecko[Xp], but you, in turn, have failed to provide one. So I'm not actually sure what the purpose of your response was, I knew what the OSL Wall of Fame looked like.
@quirinus
It appears you have not even read my post atop this page, please do so before responding next time.
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Hong Kong9154 Posts
On March 04 2013 11:14 Hier wrote:
@itsjustatank
No need for sarcasm. I do not need to educate myself on the match fixing scandal, thank you. My choice of terminology, however, still stands; despite the missing photo his win is still very much recognised. I originally asked for a source of Gecko[Xp], but you, in turn, have failed to provide one. So I'm not actually sure what the purpose of your response was, I knew what the OSL Wall of Fame looked like.
@quirinus
It appears you have not even read my post atop this page, please do so before responding next time.
The link to Liquipedia was an open invitation to read it and the articles used as sources so that you can find the point of error in your line of thought. His name happens to still be on that wall. That is because he is at once wanted to be forgotten, and yet cannot be forgotten because people like you will come around years later to try to rehabilitate him.
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On March 04 2013 11:22 itsjustatank wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2013 11:14 Hier wrote:
@itsjustatank
No need for sarcasm. I do not need to educate myself on the match fixing scandal, thank you. My choice of terminology, however, still stands; despite the missing photo his win is still very much recognised. I originally asked for a source of Gecko[Xp], but you, in turn, have failed to provide one. So I'm not actually sure what the purpose of your response was, I knew what the OSL Wall of Fame looked like.
@quirinus
It appears you have not even read my post atop this page, please do so before responding next time.
The link to Liquipedia was an open invitation to read it and the articles used as sources so that you can find the point of error in your line of thought. His name happens to still be on that wall. That is because he is at once wanted to be forgotten, and yet cannot be forgotten because people like you will come around years later to try to rehabilitate him.
You fault me for the absence of a source in the LP page that states that Savior was deprived of his MSL/OSL medals, yet you say the reason why he remains on the wall is not because he still has that OSL win, but because "people like me" just want him up there, and OGN obliges. I'm afraid the error is in your line of thought, not mine.
Also, I'm not sure why you are using the term "rehabilitate". Nobody is trying to rehabilitate anybody.
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On March 04 2013 11:51 Hier wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2013 11:22 itsjustatank wrote:On March 04 2013 11:14 Hier wrote:
@itsjustatank
No need for sarcasm. I do not need to educate myself on the match fixing scandal, thank you. My choice of terminology, however, still stands; despite the missing photo his win is still very much recognised. I originally asked for a source of Gecko[Xp], but you, in turn, have failed to provide one. So I'm not actually sure what the purpose of your response was, I knew what the OSL Wall of Fame looked like.
@quirinus
It appears you have not even read my post atop this page, please do so before responding next time.
The link to Liquipedia was an open invitation to read it and the articles used as sources so that you can find the point of error in your line of thought. His name happens to still be on that wall. That is because he is at once wanted to be forgotten, and yet cannot be forgotten because people like you will come around years later to try to rehabilitate him. You fault me for the absence of a source in the LP page that states that Savior was deprived of his MSL/OSL medals, yet you say the reason why he remains on the wall is not because he still has that OSL win, but because "people like me" just want him up there, and OGN obliges. I'm afraid the error is in your line of thought, not mine. Also, I'm not sure why you are using the term "rehabilitate". Nobody is trying to rehabilitate anybody.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma_Jae-Yoon#cite_note-25
Here you go. (Problem is I don't know if the link is broken since I don't know korean, but it seems to be missing.)
I guess we should put that on his LP page. Also might be a good idea to list the vacant medals on the MSL/OSL pages. I'm too lazy to do it atm. :<
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Players-Involved-in-Korean-Starcraft-Match-Fixing-Scandal-Banned-from-the-League-144030.shtml : "He also facilitated access to the other ten pro-gamers for the three booking agents and was subsequently banned and erased from the Association's records." but I guess you wouldn't recognize that as a source.
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On March 04 2013 12:01 quirinus wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2013 11:51 Hier wrote:On March 04 2013 11:22 itsjustatank wrote:On March 04 2013 11:14 Hier wrote:
@itsjustatank
No need for sarcasm. I do not need to educate myself on the match fixing scandal, thank you. My choice of terminology, however, still stands; despite the missing photo his win is still very much recognised. I originally asked for a source of Gecko[Xp], but you, in turn, have failed to provide one. So I'm not actually sure what the purpose of your response was, I knew what the OSL Wall of Fame looked like.
@quirinus
It appears you have not even read my post atop this page, please do so before responding next time.
The link to Liquipedia was an open invitation to read it and the articles used as sources so that you can find the point of error in your line of thought. His name happens to still be on that wall. That is because he is at once wanted to be forgotten, and yet cannot be forgotten because people like you will come around years later to try to rehabilitate him. You fault me for the absence of a source in the LP page that states that Savior was deprived of his MSL/OSL medals, yet you say the reason why he remains on the wall is not because he still has that OSL win, but because "people like me" just want him up there, and OGN obliges. I'm afraid the error is in your line of thought, not mine. Also, I'm not sure why you are using the term "rehabilitate". Nobody is trying to rehabilitate anybody. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma_Jae-Yoon#cite_note-25Here you go. (Problem is I don't know if the link is broken since I don't know korean, but it seems to be missing.) I guess we should put that on his LP page. Also might be a good idea to list the vacant medals on the MSL/OSL pages. I'm too lazy to do it atm. :< http://news.softpedia.com/news/Players-Involved-in-Korean-Starcraft-Match-Fixing-Scandal-Banned-from-the-League-144030.shtml : "He also facilitated access to the other ten pro-gamers for the three booking agents and was subsequently banned and erased from the Association's records." but I guess you wouldn't recognize that as a source.
Yes, I know of that Fomos source. However, it does not say the players were deprived of their medals. It says that their special awards (such as the player of the year award, weekly and monthly MVP awards, and other such honoraries), which were garnered through nominations by KeSPA and were presented to them by KeSPA, as it says in the article, were taken away by KeSPA. MSL and OSL are leagues that belong to MBC Game and OGN, respectively, and medals gained through those leagues are handed out by (and can be taken away by) the broadcasting companies, not KeSPA. Nowhere does it say the broadcasting companies took Savior's, Luxury's, and fake Yellow's medals away. Sure, OGN is denouncing Savior by removing his photo from the OSL Wall of Fame, but his win is still there, it's not vacant.
Going back to your example, quirinus, Lance Armstrong was deprived of his medals because he was found to have cheated in those races, making his wins illegitimate, not for selling his sport for personal financial gain at the twilight of his career.
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On March 04 2013 11:14 Hier wrote:
@itsjustatank
No need for sarcasm. I do not need to educate myself on the match fixing scandal, thank you. My choice of terminology, however, still stands; despite the missing photo his win is still very much recognised. I originally asked for a source of Gecko[Xp], but you, in turn, have failed to provide one. So I'm not actually sure what the purpose of your response was, I knew what the OSL Wall of Fame looked like.
@quirinus
It appears you have not even read my post atop this page, please do so before responding next time.
And yet the other editors are way better to explain their reasonings, because quite frankly, I don't give a shit about Korea. Never really did and never really will. I only knew how most editors think about savior, so I wanted to be nice and explain it before you're getting killed by sarcasm.
Edit:
This means I am in no way a professional for Korean events, present, past or future - hence I don't edit and/or review, if it is more than ordinary grid editing. There are people that care more and hence know more. I can't know everything, nor is it my 'duty', I'm not staff and my opinion doesn't outweigth anybody else's.
If you actually care about history you should start to edit and add/correct mistakes. However, savior is one of the touchy subjects, even more than the pages of the other match fixers, after all he was one of the heads of this scandal. I see where you come from, I really do, I tried to explain the matter to itsjustatank yesterday in IRC. A lot of us still see the player savior and the match fixer savior as two different entities, so stripping him off his wins seems to be artificially erasing him, which would do no good, given his exceptional career and his impact on the game itself. Your point is that the sources are missing - go and find them. I do trust tank and the other editors/reviewers (there were more editing these pages) enough to believe that there are no more medals in official records for the match fixers. If you don't, go and search on TL and/or Fomos and/or other pages. I really wouldn't know where to start to search other than on TL, because... I don't care enough for Korea to know their important pages. The text on his page still says he won the tours, he simply isn't a winner in the eyes of the competitive scene anymore. If you find it odd that there are dozens {Citation Neded} - any other page with only little sources do have them as well.
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Yea, I don't know Korean so I can't really find the sources...
And for your Lance Armstrong remark, it's completely off the target, I was just saying that people can have their medals revoked.
also, as far as I know, MSL and OSL are a part of kespa, and kespa keeps the records and bosses them around, so if they say the records should be erased, MSL and OSL follow.
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Netherlands6142 Posts
I agree with Hier. If you want to strip him of his medals that's fine if that's what happened, but don't just put Xes there - they tell us nothing. Make it read that he won the tournament, got the gold, then got involved in the scandal, then got his medals stripped. Right now it just reads he beat player A and then ended up Xing the tournament or something. For Armstrong, the places are vacated and then A LINK IS PROVIDED with an explanation.
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Hong Kong9154 Posts
I have replaced the Xes with the placements that no longer exist, with strikethroughs and a direct link to proof that he is matchfixing scum.
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Sweden5554 Posts
Personally I'd prefer having the achievements listed as standard except that the table itself is collapsed and has a title stating that these results have been removed retroactively due to his part of the match fixing scandal. Where we can have an apparent link to the correct section etc.
For result listing in MLS/OSL I'd add a strikethrough over his name and a reference or asterisk with an explanation.
For medals I'd add a separate list with "Medals retroactively removed by KeSPA" or some such and add all of Saviours medals there. And a link for him to the reason why he lost them.
I think this system provided the best amount of information without creating too many special solutions that can't be used again in somewhat similar situations.
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I was thinking the other day that I should modify some things within the wiki, first of all there is no button to redirect me to TL once I've entered the LP (or is there?).
And I did add something to SC:Wiki, it wasn't that hard, I just followed the steps others had made before me and was able to get the info into the neat boxes.
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Vancouver14381 Posts
On March 05 2013 06:30 Gene(S)is wrote:
I was thinking the other day that I should modify some things within the wiki, first of all there is no button to redirect me to TL once I've entered the LP (or is there?).
And I did add something to SC:Wiki, it wasn't that hard, I just followed the steps others had made before me and was able to get the info into the neat boxes.
There is a link back to TL. It's the news link under Teamliquid.net on the sidebar.
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I tend to think I've followed the match fixing scandal quite closely when it was going on, but it is still possible I've missed the official source. So far people were not able to provide one, when asked, neither does LP link to one, and I have given evidence to the contrary. Quite frankly, I am beginning to think an official source stating that the three players' medals had been taken away simply does not exist.
I realize that I have made almost zero contribution to LP, compared to some of you guys. I am not defending Savior, as itsjustatank tends to think, but I would not like for LP to turn into a blog of a 13 your old girl that has just been dumped.
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Netherlands6142 Posts
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Right, but the problem is the Korean source, officially announcing the confiscation of the medals, is nowhere to be found on LP.
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There hasn't been a response in a while, do we have one or not?
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Bisutopia19234 Posts
I'm feeling like diving in and working in on the wiki. Thought I'd bump this to take suggestion or just inspire other people to join my fun!
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Magic Woods9326 Posts
On August 16 2013 23:44 BisuDagger wrote:
I'm feeling like diving in and working in on the wiki. Thought I'd bump this to take suggestion or just inspire other people to join my fun!
You could organize all the proleague pages. They are a mess because of mislabeling on R&S titles. The 2004-2005-2006 seasons are all mixed up. You can see the correct results on TLPD pretty easy. If you don't feel like it you can pretty much check any page because things are either missing or wrong everywhere. Ask me if there is anything you need or if there is anything you are wondering about.
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Bisutopia19234 Posts
On August 16 2013 23:46 Epoxide wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 23:44 BisuDagger wrote:
I'm feeling like diving in and working in on the wiki. Thought I'd bump this to take suggestion or just inspire other people to join my fun! You could organize all the proleague pages. They are a mess because of mislabeling on R&S titles. The 2004-2005-2006 seasons are all mixed up. You can see the correct results on TLPD pretty easy. If you don't feel like it you can pretty much check any page because things are either missing or wrong everywhere. Ask me if there is anything you need or if there is anything you are wondering about.
That seems like a nice and easy start. I'm trying to improve my wiki coding knowledge cause its so rusty or nonexistant nowadays. Thanks! xD
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ErTWy.png)
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BGH![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/gUwB6.jpg)
