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If starcraft 2 only changed the interface.... - Page 11

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RedMeat
Profile Joined September 2002
United Kingdom490 Posts
May 22 2005 04:06 GMT
#201
On May 21 2005 01:06 hasuwar wrote:
You can't change a perfected game, stop trying


Stfu please...
I am the mirror, I am the destiny, I am the herald that points the way...
ihatett
Profile Joined January 2005
United States2289 Posts
May 22 2005 04:08 GMT
#202
FA, I think that link is broken. T__T

And it's too bad my bold-as-fuck post on page 9 was largely ignored, because I feel it had ok points.
I love Protoss because it is tough and straight. Protoss is the race for men.
baba1
Profile Joined April 2005
Canada355 Posts
May 22 2005 04:16 GMT
#203
stupid thread imho
noq uote
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33719 Posts
May 22 2005 04:24 GMT
#204
On May 22 2005 13:08 ihatett wrote:
FA, I think that link is broken. T__T

And it's too bad my bold-as-fuck post on page 9 was largely ignored, because I feel it had ok points.

Changed ;o
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
teh leet newb
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
United States1999 Posts
May 22 2005 04:31 GMT
#205
On May 22 2005 11:58 Tal wrote:
Cuddly cute kitten and tenbagger make some good points, and I can now at least see that there is a decent argument against the changes.

However, it should be considered that the theoretical level of micro someone could get to is huge. Imagine muta harassing 5 areas simultaneously. So the game would not become pure strategy like go or chess, there would still be a large element of physical skill.

Imagine if SC2 was released with my changes (tweaked of course, and maybe without making spellcasting easier). Would you really still play this version, spending vast amounts of time hammering the keyboard when there's a version that lets you concentrate on strategy and micro?

Oh and could you briefly describle to me total anihilation kingdoms (cuddlykitten), as you make it sound interesting but I'd never really heard much about it. Does it have the same speed and ''1 slip and your fucked'' aspect of starcraft mixed with great strategy and balance? If so I will certainly give it a go.


Your version is shit. Please die.
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Winston Churchill
ihatett
Profile Joined January 2005
United States2289 Posts
Last Edited: 2005-05-22 04:39:26
May 22 2005 04:38 GMT
#206
Hahahahaha, I love how you call macro "hammering the keyboard".

It's clear that you either hate/suck at macro and want it done for you.

edit: we play games to play them, not to have them played for us
I love Protoss because it is tough and straight. Protoss is the race for men.
NonYold
Profile Joined April 2004
United States2814 Posts
Last Edited: 2005-05-22 05:52:29
May 22 2005 05:39 GMT
#207
I've been out of town so I haven't read this entire thread... so I'll probably just be rephrasing what other people have already said, but- I think it's funny Tal asks for open-minded responses when his whole post and argument assumes a close-minded purpose to the game. I apologize to anyone who came onto a computer to escape reality but it isn't all developers' goals to make the computer respond to human thought with the least amount of ability required (ie by using "ease-of-use" features). To me his suggestions are like saying that in basketball we should make the rims bigger so there's less physical ability in making shots. Or better yet it's like saying we should give all athletes steroids so that we can "even the playing field" a bit more. Less talented athletes catch up to the talented athletes, while the talented athletes don't see significant improvements. The sports become easier to do. Obviously sports aren't altered like that, although they could be, because it'd be destroying a vital part of the game.

Now having said that, I actually laughed out loud when I read this:

On May 20 2005 17:40 Tal wrote:
Oh, and while this is slightly off topic, why doesn't the game just start with 6 workers? No build except 4 pool would be affected, and the amount of time saved would be astronomical over time.

Cheers for reading, if you have intelligent well-reasoned stuff to say, would be appreciated.


If Tal can't see how starting the game with 6 workers instead of 4 would alter the game beyond "saving time" then I don't believe Tal is capable of utilizing someone's intelligent post. Because of this, I've only written for the entertainment of the TL.net community. Sorry Tal

Edit: As much as I didn't want to, I took some time to skim the thread. I see a basketball comparison has already been made. It seemed to me Tal argues for changing the focus of the game so that it's still as physically involving. The thing is that what skills the game demands is what defines the game. Going back to a comparison to sports- baseball, basketball, football (US), soccer (football), whatever. They all require different skills. Going back to the dribbling- you're a big fan of basketball but you think the game would be better if players didn't have to dribble like in American football, so that more focus could be put on other aspects of the game (cuz who really cares about their dribbling? they rarely mess it up and it's not exciting anyway). Well basketball fans who love the crazy crossovers and the ball handling of the best and the bad handling which takes down other players, well those fans will say you're ruining a big part of the game. If you don't like it then play football. That's what I say to Tal. If you don't like the game then I'm sorry nobody has made "your" game yet, but don't take away from what we have.

I think Blizzard made a smart decision by developing the Starcraft universe in another genre. If there was ever a "Starcraft: Brood Wars 2" then I think it should only be an update in graphics/sound/missions/whatever.
Purind
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
Canada3562 Posts
May 22 2005 07:22 GMT
#208
Macro'ing is not mundane to the majority of us. Macroing is fun. Likewise, I can say that Micro is mundane and just a bunch of pointless clicks. I mean, how fun is it to repeatedly right click 7 mutas? Maybe we should have auto marine-lurker micro, just so physically accurate players don't have some sort of unfair advantage over less mouse intense, more thinking players. I mean, I'm really smart, and have a great strategical mind, and I'm sure I can out-think Boxer TvZ, but the only reason Boxer's TvZ is better than mine is that he can kill a million lurkers with minimal losses, while I don't have the mouse speed for that. Put in auto-micro so I can do what Boxer can, while focusing on more "important" aspects of the game like timing/strategy/setting up ambushes/eating pizza.
Trucy Wright is hot
Milzo
Profile Joined March 2004
France656 Posts
May 23 2005 21:24 GMT
#209
On May 22 2005 13:24 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 22 2005 13:08 ihatett wrote:
FA, I think that link is broken. T__T

And it's too bad my bold-as-fuck post on page 9 was largely ignored, because I feel it had ok points.

Changed ;o


He meant the link to the replay on the iD. website is broken, I think (it still is).

Stop teasing us and post the rep!
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33719 Posts
May 23 2005 22:08 GMT
#210
O_o No clue why that is.

I'll just upload it to http://www.battlereports.com :O
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33719 Posts
Last Edited: 2005-05-23 22:38:00
May 23 2005 22:31 GMT
#211
Actually, I uploaded the entire Bo3 + 2 PvZ's to my west clan's page instead
http://clancg.org/ -> Replays -> Others (progamers written next to it).
cG.Stormy = Me
cG.Greven= Travin

Btw, 1 gate kinda sucked on gaia I found out =P That was the first game we played on it, I thought the distance seemed gigantic so I was like 'hey, this should be safe'. Not.

The distance is pretty close to that of 12 vs 3 so 2 gate is really strong -_-!
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
sonofraynor
Profile Joined May 2005
United States4 Posts
May 23 2005 23:42 GMT
#212
whats with the revealed map with fog of war? What if you were playing in a maze-like map? It'd be too easy to find your opponent. You'd already know where alternate bases could be placed, and where it would be totally useless to scout. You'd save a lot of time, but the doubt makes the game challenging.
My battlecruiser could beat up your battlecruiser any day.
Milzo
Profile Joined March 2004
France656 Posts
May 24 2005 01:17 GMT
#213
On May 24 2005 07:31 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Actually, I uploaded the entire Bo3 + 2 PvZ's to my west clan's page instead
http://clancg.org/ -> Replays -> Others (progamers written next to it).
cG.Stormy = Me
cG.Greven= Travin

Btw, 1 gate kinda sucked on gaia I found out =P That was the first game we played on it, I thought the distance seemed gigantic so I was like 'hey, this should be safe'. Not.

The distance is pretty close to that of 12 vs 3 so 2 gate is really strong -_-!


Thx a lot!
Got the first two. But the bo3 TVZ can't be downloaded ATM, I reckon it's because of the "#" in the name of the files. It'd be great if u could fix it. Thx in advance.
Kazoo
Profile Joined March 2005
Canada211 Posts
May 24 2005 02:16 GMT
#214
You should be able to use tanks or similar types of units to destroy minerals, that would be kickass, you do a quick rush to destroy the other person's vespene or knock off a mineral field big advantage, and you can make sure he can't expand
Evil Always Wins Cause Good is Dumb
EAGER-beaver
Profile Joined March 2004
Canada2799 Posts
May 24 2005 03:03 GMT
#215
On May 24 2005 11:16 Kazoo wrote:
You should be able to use tanks or similar types of units to destroy minerals, that would be kickass, you do a quick rush to destroy the other person's vespene or knock off a mineral field big advantage, and you can make sure he can't expand


I was thinking about this recently after I played some warcraft 2. Having destructible resources would add a whole new level of complexity and strategies into the sc mix.
Simon and Garfunkel rock my face off
NeX-HamartiA
Profile Joined May 2005
United States244 Posts
Last Edited: 2005-05-24 03:13:43
May 24 2005 03:13 GMT
#216
On May 22 2005 13:06 RedMeat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 21 2005 01:06 hasuwar wrote:
You can't change a perfected game, stop trying


Stfu please...


He is right.

Perfect adjective
1. without faults: without errors, flaws, or faults
In The Arms Of.
inFe-The-Feared
Profile Joined May 2005
Norway11 Posts
May 24 2005 03:30 GMT
#217
just wanna say something about the macro vs strategy when it comes to having too many buttons to push. For me I really enjoy the frantic hammering of all the different keys, it simply gets my attention much more and starts up the adrenaline. Especially when the game gets really hectic and you start fumbling more and more, thats when it gets more and more enjoyable in my mind
But then again I do love stupid stupid games like just pushing the buttons as fast as possible in the right moment, like those music games etc :D
As people have said giving the player in starcraft too many tools when it comes to macro kinda makes it non-starcraftish hehe :D
thx
Hirrr I can smell your fear...
ManaBlue
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
Canada10458 Posts
May 24 2005 03:43 GMT
#218
On May 22 2005 13:06 RedMeat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 21 2005 01:06 hasuwar wrote:
You can't change a perfected game, stop trying


Stfu please...


I'm afraid I'm gonna have to agree with him. SC is the best RTS ever made...period.

It's my fav game ever, and I don't feel it can be improved on. May as well make SC2 a whole new animal and save us a redundant title after a 20 year wait.
ModeratorTL VOD legends: Live2Win, hasuprotoss, Cadical, rinizim, Mani, thedeadhaji, Kennigit, SonuvBob, yakii, fw, pheer, CDRdude, pholon, Uraeus, zatic, baezzi. The contributors make this site what it is. *Props to FakeSteve for respecting the guitar gods*
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33719 Posts
May 24 2005 03:48 GMT
#219
On May 24 2005 10:17 Milzo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 24 2005 07:31 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Actually, I uploaded the entire Bo3 + 2 PvZ's to my west clan's page instead
http://clancg.org/ -> Replays -> Others (progamers written next to it).
cG.Stormy = Me
cG.Greven= Travin

Btw, 1 gate kinda sucked on gaia I found out =P That was the first game we played on it, I thought the distance seemed gigantic so I was like 'hey, this should be safe'. Not.

The distance is pretty close to that of 12 vs 3 so 2 gate is really strong -_-!


Thx a lot!
Got the first two. But the bo3 TVZ can't be downloaded ATM, I reckon it's because of the "#" in the name of the files. It'd be great if u could fix it. Thx in advance.

Fixed :D
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
EntertainMe
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
864 Posts
Last Edited: 2005-05-24 05:01:08
May 24 2005 04:50 GMT
#220
we like hammering our keyboard, right? so im thinking maybe to make the game better, we need to add more "unnessecary keys/scenerio" into play.

1) I liked that shield idea, thought it was very creative.
2) How about now we have to press "L" every time marines shoot their ammo to reload?
3) Every landscape now takes effect not just ledges, under trees, ramps. For example in a tall grass zerglings does extra +1 dmg, in a foggy areas dark templar gains +1 armor due to its superior ability to hide
4) Above the zerg creeps, defiler does +1 second longer cloud

lol this is fun
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