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Stop being jerks to each other please. Stop talking about seperate TL sites, BW vs SC2, or which fan base is retarded/ignorant/elitist/old/constipated.
Don't post in the thread unless you take the time to read the situation.
Don't post in the thread to let others know that they should have been banned longer.
Don't post in the thread to claim that kespa is the evil empire based on you reading the translated musing of a random Chinese blogger.
Honestly people, this is common sense. I hate the fact that I have to moderate to the lowest common denominator. Make my job easier please. |
On October 01 2011 21:39 Sawamura wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2011 21:34 seraphe wrote:On October 01 2011 21:11 NoobSkills wrote:On October 01 2011 21:07 ShadeR wrote:On October 01 2011 20:44 NoobSkills wrote:On October 01 2011 20:32 Ikonn wrote:On October 01 2011 20:20 NoobSkills wrote:
I don't understand how this is seen as right. It is like the NFL owning an NFL team. NFL controls the REF's which leads to games being called unfairly. Now, in SCBW this isn't really easily applied, but it can come through in situations where there is a disconnect and rule in the favor of their player. Just seems strange to me. Perhaps this will all work out I much prefer watching BW (if only the streams were better quality) the perfection in the games is something I don't see in SC2 That analogy would only work if the NFL already consisted entirely of the sponsors (ie the owners) of the teams, like Kespa does Teams and Players belong to the owner of the Team (cowboys or KT) Matches are setup by the organization (Regular Season + Playoffs or MSL OSL TL) Edit: I don't understand your point. I guess we can speculate all we want but nobody really knows what is actually meant by "a new management system". So at this point all analogys are false ones. Not false, but unproven, but no matter what the "management system" is they will have a bias. Now, as far as speculation goes we won't know exactly how it works until they tell us, but I have an inclination that this won't be a great thing. Hopefully it is, but KESPA has mishandled things before. Kespa is also all we have. If it weren't for Kespa, we'd be 3 teams down, end of story. Whatever their faults in the past, they're doing their best to help BW right now. We're getting 1, maybe even 2 teams back. What do we have to complain about? Take a look at his post history and that can give you a view which side he is really on .
You claim I'm on a side. I miss too many SC2 matches to count. I don't miss a SINGLE BW match. Watch so many I can't even remember 90% of them. I much prefer to watch two semi-good SCBW pros over most SC2 pros. Why? Because their play is 100x better. If I were on any side it would be the side that kills KESPA and keeps both games going. With that though if SC2's expansion was actually good I wouldn't mind seeing BW pros play it, but I don't think they can make a truly great game anymore, so I will continue watching BW.
On October 01 2011 21:34 seraphe wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2011 21:11 NoobSkills wrote:On October 01 2011 21:07 ShadeR wrote:On October 01 2011 20:44 NoobSkills wrote:On October 01 2011 20:32 Ikonn wrote:On October 01 2011 20:20 NoobSkills wrote:
I don't understand how this is seen as right. It is like the NFL owning an NFL team. NFL controls the REF's which leads to games being called unfairly. Now, in SCBW this isn't really easily applied, but it can come through in situations where there is a disconnect and rule in the favor of their player. Just seems strange to me. Perhaps this will all work out I much prefer watching BW (if only the streams were better quality) the perfection in the games is something I don't see in SC2 That analogy would only work if the NFL already consisted entirely of the sponsors (ie the owners) of the teams, like Kespa does Teams and Players belong to the owner of the Team (cowboys or KT) Matches are setup by the organization (Regular Season + Playoffs or MSL OSL TL) Edit: I don't understand your point. I guess we can speculate all we want but nobody really knows what is actually meant by "a new management system". So at this point all analogys are false ones. Not false, but unproven, but no matter what the "management system" is they will have a bias. Now, as far as speculation goes we won't know exactly how it works until they tell us, but I have an inclination that this won't be a great thing. Hopefully it is, but KESPA has mishandled things before. Kespa is also all we have. If it weren't for Kespa, we'd be 3 teams down, end of story. Whatever their faults in the past, they're doing their best to help BW right now. We're getting 1, maybe even 2 teams back. What do we have to complain about?
You're assuming that every other party would do worse. I personally don't see why if the 1 or 2 new teams were to come through couldn't manage themselves?
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On October 01 2011 22:05 NoobSkills wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2011 21:39 Sawamura wrote:On October 01 2011 21:34 seraphe wrote:On October 01 2011 21:11 NoobSkills wrote:On October 01 2011 21:07 ShadeR wrote:On October 01 2011 20:44 NoobSkills wrote:On October 01 2011 20:32 Ikonn wrote:On October 01 2011 20:20 NoobSkills wrote:
I don't understand how this is seen as right. It is like the NFL owning an NFL team. NFL controls the REF's which leads to games being called unfairly. Now, in SCBW this isn't really easily applied, but it can come through in situations where there is a disconnect and rule in the favor of their player. Just seems strange to me. Perhaps this will all work out I much prefer watching BW (if only the streams were better quality) the perfection in the games is something I don't see in SC2 That analogy would only work if the NFL already consisted entirely of the sponsors (ie the owners) of the teams, like Kespa does Teams and Players belong to the owner of the Team (cowboys or KT) Matches are setup by the organization (Regular Season + Playoffs or MSL OSL TL) Edit: I don't understand your point. I guess we can speculate all we want but nobody really knows what is actually meant by "a new management system". So at this point all analogys are false ones. Not false, but unproven, but no matter what the "management system" is they will have a bias. Now, as far as speculation goes we won't know exactly how it works until they tell us, but I have an inclination that this won't be a great thing. Hopefully it is, but KESPA has mishandled things before. Kespa is also all we have. If it weren't for Kespa, we'd be 3 teams down, end of story. Whatever their faults in the past, they're doing their best to help BW right now. We're getting 1, maybe even 2 teams back. What do we have to complain about? Take a look at his post history and that can give you a view which side he is really on . You claim I'm on a side. I miss too many SC2 matches to count. I don't miss a SINGLE BW match. Watch so many I can't even remember 90% of them. I much prefer to watch two semi-good SCBW pros over most SC2 pros. Why? Because their play is 100x better. If I were on any side it would be the side that kills KESPA and keeps both games going. With that though if SC2's expansion was actually good I wouldn't mind seeing BW pros play it, but I don't think they can make a truly great game anymore, so I will continue watching BW. Show nested quote +On October 01 2011 21:34 seraphe wrote:On October 01 2011 21:11 NoobSkills wrote:On October 01 2011 21:07 ShadeR wrote:On October 01 2011 20:44 NoobSkills wrote:On October 01 2011 20:32 Ikonn wrote:On October 01 2011 20:20 NoobSkills wrote:
I don't understand how this is seen as right. It is like the NFL owning an NFL team. NFL controls the REF's which leads to games being called unfairly. Now, in SCBW this isn't really easily applied, but it can come through in situations where there is a disconnect and rule in the favor of their player. Just seems strange to me. Perhaps this will all work out I much prefer watching BW (if only the streams were better quality) the perfection in the games is something I don't see in SC2 That analogy would only work if the NFL already consisted entirely of the sponsors (ie the owners) of the teams, like Kespa does Teams and Players belong to the owner of the Team (cowboys or KT) Matches are setup by the organization (Regular Season + Playoffs or MSL OSL TL) Edit: I don't understand your point. I guess we can speculate all we want but nobody really knows what is actually meant by "a new management system". So at this point all analogys are false ones. Not false, but unproven, but no matter what the "management system" is they will have a bias. Now, as far as speculation goes we won't know exactly how it works until they tell us, but I have an inclination that this won't be a great thing. Hopefully it is, but KESPA has mishandled things before. Kespa is also all we have. If it weren't for Kespa, we'd be 3 teams down, end of story. Whatever their faults in the past, they're doing their best to help BW right now. We're getting 1, maybe even 2 teams back. What do we have to complain about? You're assuming that every other party would do worse. I personally don't see why if the 1 or 2 new teams were to come through couldn't manage themselves?
I suppose it's all about perspective. KeSPA has bungled things up with leta pp incident and jaedong free agency. Both problems were rectified. KeSPA is not looking to screw the BW scene over they want BW to succeed this could be seen as selfish or self preservationist but i'm seeing a common goal here. That's why i feel i can trust KeSPA to maybe not do the best job but at least do what they believe to be in the scene's best interest.
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United States7639 Posts
On October 01 2011 22:05 NoobSkills wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2011 21:39 Sawamura wrote:On October 01 2011 21:34 seraphe wrote:On October 01 2011 21:11 NoobSkills wrote:On October 01 2011 21:07 ShadeR wrote:On October 01 2011 20:44 NoobSkills wrote:On October 01 2011 20:32 Ikonn wrote:On October 01 2011 20:20 NoobSkills wrote:
I don't understand how this is seen as right. It is like the NFL owning an NFL team. NFL controls the REF's which leads to games being called unfairly. Now, in SCBW this isn't really easily applied, but it can come through in situations where there is a disconnect and rule in the favor of their player. Just seems strange to me. Perhaps this will all work out I much prefer watching BW (if only the streams were better quality) the perfection in the games is something I don't see in SC2 That analogy would only work if the NFL already consisted entirely of the sponsors (ie the owners) of the teams, like Kespa does Teams and Players belong to the owner of the Team (cowboys or KT) Matches are setup by the organization (Regular Season + Playoffs or MSL OSL TL) Edit: I don't understand your point. I guess we can speculate all we want but nobody really knows what is actually meant by "a new management system". So at this point all analogys are false ones. Not false, but unproven, but no matter what the "management system" is they will have a bias. Now, as far as speculation goes we won't know exactly how it works until they tell us, but I have an inclination that this won't be a great thing. Hopefully it is, but KESPA has mishandled things before. Kespa is also all we have. If it weren't for Kespa, we'd be 3 teams down, end of story. Whatever their faults in the past, they're doing their best to help BW right now. We're getting 1, maybe even 2 teams back. What do we have to complain about? Take a look at his post history and that can give you a view which side he is really on . You claim I'm on a side. I miss too many SC2 matches to count. I don't miss a SINGLE BW match. Watch so many I can't even remember 90% of them. I much prefer to watch two semi-good SCBW pros over most SC2 pros. Why? Because their play is 100x better. If I were on any side it would be the side that kills KESPA and keeps both games going. With that though if SC2's expansion was actually good I wouldn't mind seeing BW pros play it, but I don't think they can make a truly great game anymore, so I will continue watching BW. Show nested quote +On October 01 2011 21:34 seraphe wrote:On October 01 2011 21:11 NoobSkills wrote:On October 01 2011 21:07 ShadeR wrote:On October 01 2011 20:44 NoobSkills wrote:On October 01 2011 20:32 Ikonn wrote:On October 01 2011 20:20 NoobSkills wrote:
I don't understand how this is seen as right. It is like the NFL owning an NFL team. NFL controls the REF's which leads to games being called unfairly. Now, in SCBW this isn't really easily applied, but it can come through in situations where there is a disconnect and rule in the favor of their player. Just seems strange to me. Perhaps this will all work out I much prefer watching BW (if only the streams were better quality) the perfection in the games is something I don't see in SC2 That analogy would only work if the NFL already consisted entirely of the sponsors (ie the owners) of the teams, like Kespa does Teams and Players belong to the owner of the Team (cowboys or KT) Matches are setup by the organization (Regular Season + Playoffs or MSL OSL TL) Edit: I don't understand your point. I guess we can speculate all we want but nobody really knows what is actually meant by "a new management system". So at this point all analogys are false ones. Not false, but unproven, but no matter what the "management system" is they will have a bias. Now, as far as speculation goes we won't know exactly how it works until they tell us, but I have an inclination that this won't be a great thing. Hopefully it is, but KESPA has mishandled things before. Kespa is also all we have. If it weren't for Kespa, we'd be 3 teams down, end of story. Whatever their faults in the past, they're doing their best to help BW right now. We're getting 1, maybe even 2 teams back. What do we have to complain about? You're assuming that every other party would do worse. I personally don't see why if the 1 or 2 new teams were to come through couldn't manage themselves?
It's not that they can't manage themselves. It's that companies are primarily concerned with making money and not promoting esports (except as a means to gain profit), and have no obligation to keep their team if they feel like they're not making money. After all, sponsoring a team is an investment, not an act of charity. Kespa wants to prevent this entire fiasco from happening again. They don't want a sponsor to one day decide to pull out, and result in their team disbanding completely. This way, even if a sponsor backs out, the team will still exist, while Kespa finds them a new one.
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Thank you both for clarifying that up. Very interesting strategy from them. Perhaps putting the sponsors under contract for X years will give teams a heads up to look for a new one if they don't renew the contract by Y months before the contract expires. Seems like a good safe way to keep all teams sponsored and thriving. Thank you guys.
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Just wait a minute.
As far as this thread is concerned, and as far as I know, no one knows for sure what this "new management" is or how KESpA will go about the new system. In this light, most of the comments here are not only moot, but downright juvenile, irresponsible, and erroneous. Juvenile because it looks like kids trying to compete who pisses longer without any real substance to the competition. Irresponsible because everyone is arguing based on speculation and personal interpretation, nothing more, while passing it on as actual fact. And erroneous because quite simply, unless there is clear unambiguous news about it, or it came from KESpA itself, therefore it is simply not true, not grounds for any discussion, and should be immediately arrested.
In fact, if TL finds balance whining and balance/game suggestions bannable, this is even more so. Balance whining/theorycraft at least are explicitly in the realm of fiction/suggestion. This one, discussing and prolonging the discussion based on the slightest bit of information, promotes misinformation, and goes at the very heart of BW/ESports, of how it operates on the ground. How could that kind of speculative discussion been allowed to get to 24 pages is beyond me. Those who participate in that ignorance mongering are worthy of a 2-day ban at least. Put this in perspective and you will actually see how erroneous and irresponsible activities like this are detrimental to everyone.
Let us wait for someone with clear, firsthand, impeccable knowledge on this matter to elucidate it first before we try to analyze and discuss it. Otherwise please stop spreading wrong information.
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On October 01 2011 22:37 ShadeR wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2011 22:05 NoobSkills wrote:On October 01 2011 21:39 Sawamura wrote:On October 01 2011 21:34 seraphe wrote:On October 01 2011 21:11 NoobSkills wrote:On October 01 2011 21:07 ShadeR wrote:On October 01 2011 20:44 NoobSkills wrote:On October 01 2011 20:32 Ikonn wrote:On October 01 2011 20:20 NoobSkills wrote:
I don't understand how this is seen as right. It is like the NFL owning an NFL team. NFL controls the REF's which leads to games being called unfairly. Now, in SCBW this isn't really easily applied, but it can come through in situations where there is a disconnect and rule in the favor of their player. Just seems strange to me. Perhaps this will all work out I much prefer watching BW (if only the streams were better quality) the perfection in the games is something I don't see in SC2 That analogy would only work if the NFL already consisted entirely of the sponsors (ie the owners) of the teams, like Kespa does Teams and Players belong to the owner of the Team (cowboys or KT) Matches are setup by the organization (Regular Season + Playoffs or MSL OSL TL) Edit: I don't understand your point. I guess we can speculate all we want but nobody really knows what is actually meant by "a new management system". So at this point all analogys are false ones. Not false, but unproven, but no matter what the "management system" is they will have a bias. Now, as far as speculation goes we won't know exactly how it works until they tell us, but I have an inclination that this won't be a great thing. Hopefully it is, but KESPA has mishandled things before. Kespa is also all we have. If it weren't for Kespa, we'd be 3 teams down, end of story. Whatever their faults in the past, they're doing their best to help BW right now. We're getting 1, maybe even 2 teams back. What do we have to complain about? Take a look at his post history and that can give you a view which side he is really on . You claim I'm on a side. I miss too many SC2 matches to count. I don't miss a SINGLE BW match. Watch so many I can't even remember 90% of them. I much prefer to watch two semi-good SCBW pros over most SC2 pros. Why? Because their play is 100x better. If I were on any side it would be the side that kills KESPA and keeps both games going. With that though if SC2's expansion was actually good I wouldn't mind seeing BW pros play it, but I don't think they can make a truly great game anymore, so I will continue watching BW. On October 01 2011 21:34 seraphe wrote:On October 01 2011 21:11 NoobSkills wrote:On October 01 2011 21:07 ShadeR wrote:On October 01 2011 20:44 NoobSkills wrote:On October 01 2011 20:32 Ikonn wrote:On October 01 2011 20:20 NoobSkills wrote:
I don't understand how this is seen as right. It is like the NFL owning an NFL team. NFL controls the REF's which leads to games being called unfairly. Now, in SCBW this isn't really easily applied, but it can come through in situations where there is a disconnect and rule in the favor of their player. Just seems strange to me. Perhaps this will all work out I much prefer watching BW (if only the streams were better quality) the perfection in the games is something I don't see in SC2 That analogy would only work if the NFL already consisted entirely of the sponsors (ie the owners) of the teams, like Kespa does Teams and Players belong to the owner of the Team (cowboys or KT) Matches are setup by the organization (Regular Season + Playoffs or MSL OSL TL) Edit: I don't understand your point. I guess we can speculate all we want but nobody really knows what is actually meant by "a new management system". So at this point all analogys are false ones. Not false, but unproven, but no matter what the "management system" is they will have a bias. Now, as far as speculation goes we won't know exactly how it works until they tell us, but I have an inclination that this won't be a great thing. Hopefully it is, but KESPA has mishandled things before. Kespa is also all we have. If it weren't for Kespa, we'd be 3 teams down, end of story. Whatever their faults in the past, they're doing their best to help BW right now. We're getting 1, maybe even 2 teams back. What do we have to complain about? You're assuming that every other party would do worse. I personally don't see why if the 1 or 2 new teams were to come through couldn't manage themselves? I suppose it's all about perspective. KeSPA has bungled things up with leta pp incident and jaedong free agency. Both problems were rectified. KeSPA is not looking to screw the BW scene over they want BW to succeed this could be seen as selfish or self preservationist but i'm seeing a common goal here. That's why i feel i can trust KeSPA to maybe not do the best job but at least do what they believe to be in the scene's best interest.
What did they do wrong in Jaedong free agency? Like those were the free agent rules, can't make an exception just because it's Jaedong. It's unfortunate Oz prehaps didn't pay him quite as much as he was worth (at the time) - but he still is very well paid i'm pretty sure.
It would be bad for the game if he was simply bought by a bigger team... after all, lack of competitiveness is surely partially why the disbanded teams are disbanded right? Making the gap between top and bottom smaller is the goal not bigger, and having Jaedong move almost to any team is gonna swing the balance around. If it's KT/SKT1 then PL would be basically decided beforehand, hence why it's very difficult for a player to be picked up in the free agency. It's basically discouraging teams from doing it at all, but especially for players like him.
And the pp thing. Rules are rules, it's maybe dumb and strict to follow it down to that. But it is a rule, and it was broken. Yeah it sucks but the hate has spread to people who don't even know what they are talking about based on a few unfortunate referee calls? It's silly. For us BW fans let's not get our statements mixed up and repeated by people wrongly. SC2 people see us hating on KeSPA for some minor things they don't even know about, and run with it.
When it comes to keeping the scene alive and going no one wants it more than them so we should be fully behind them this time and show your support and explain to non-understanders why it's beneficial. An organization like this isn't going to please everyone all the time and has to make some difficult decisions sometimes but when it comes to matters like ensuring the future of the game then we can support them.
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On October 02 2011 00:51 The Black wrote:
Just wait a minute.
As far as this thread is concerned, and as far as I know, no one knows for sure what this "new management" is or how KESpA will go about the new system. In this light, most of the comments here are not only moot, but downright juvenile, irresponsible, and erroneous. Juvenile because it looks like kids trying to compete who pisses longer without any real substance to the competition. Irresponsible because everyone is arguing based on speculation and personal interpretation, nothing more, while passing it on as actual fact. And erroneous because quite simply, unless there is clear unambiguous news about it, or it came from KESpA itself, therefore it is simply not true, not grounds for any discussion, and should be immediately arrested.
In fact, if TL finds balance whining and balance/game suggestions bannable, this is even more so. Balance whining/theorycraft at least are explicitly in the realm of fiction/suggestion. This one, discussing and prolonging the discussion based on the slightest bit of information, promotes misinformation, and goes at the very heart of BW/ESports, of how it operates on the ground. How could that kind of speculative discussion been allowed to get to 24 pages is beyond me. Those who participate in that ignorance mongering are worthy of a 2-day ban at least. Put this in perspective and you will actually see how erroneous and irresponsible activities like this are detrimental to everyone.
Let us wait for someone with clear, firsthand, impeccable knowledge on this matter to elucidate it first before we try to analyze and discuss it. Otherwise please stop spreading wrong information.
I think what you're saying here comes off as extremely condescending. I think people have a right to say what they think, and then if the Teamliquid mods find it ban-worthy, then so be it. I can't imagine BroodWar fans NOT feeling passionately about this issue, so comparing their concerns (however poorly miscommunicated they are) to 'kids trying to compete who pisses longer', is just throwing more kindling into the fire. I also would have phrased it "Children competing for the most extensive duration of urination" if I was trying to be a condescending sesquipedalian.
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On October 02 2011 00:51 The Black wrote:
Just wait a minute.
As far as this thread is concerned, and as far as I know, no one knows for sure ...Otherwise please stop spreading wrong information.
Start "no one knows for sure" but you declare it as "wrong information" at the end. So which is it? U sure it's wrong or you aren't sure? To me your post is just as ignorant as the others if not more, it's just a "let's ban everyone for 2 days" ranting with a sugar coating on top.
rumour US, rumor [ˈruːmə]
n
1.
a. information, often a mixture of truth and untruth, passed around verbally
b. (in combination) a rumour-monger
2. gossip or hearsay
3. Archaic din or clamour
4. Obsolete fame or reputation
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On October 02 2011 01:25 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2011 00:51 The Black wrote:
Just wait a minute.
As far as this thread is concerned, and as far as I know, no one knows for sure what this "new management" is or how KESpA will go about the new system. In this light, most of the comments here are not only moot, but downright juvenile, irresponsible, and erroneous. Juvenile because it looks like kids trying to compete who pisses longer without any real substance to the competition. Irresponsible because everyone is arguing based on speculation and personal interpretation, nothing more, while passing it on as actual fact. And erroneous because quite simply, unless there is clear unambiguous news about it, or it came from KESpA itself, therefore it is simply not true, not grounds for any discussion, and should be immediately arrested.
In fact, if TL finds balance whining and balance/game suggestions bannable, this is even more so. Balance whining/theorycraft at least are explicitly in the realm of fiction/suggestion. This one, discussing and prolonging the discussion based on the slightest bit of information, promotes misinformation, and goes at the very heart of BW/ESports, of how it operates on the ground. How could that kind of speculative discussion been allowed to get to 24 pages is beyond me. Those who participate in that ignorance mongering are worthy of a 2-day ban at least. Put this in perspective and you will actually see how erroneous and irresponsible activities like this are detrimental to everyone.
Let us wait for someone with clear, firsthand, impeccable knowledge on this matter to elucidate it first before we try to analyze and discuss it. Otherwise please stop spreading wrong information. I think what you're saying here comes off as extremely condescending. I think people have a right to say what they think, and then if the Teamliquid mods find it ban-worthy, then so be it. I can't imagine BroodWar fans NOT feeling passionately about this issue, so comparing their concerns (however poorly miscommunicated they are) to 'kids trying to compete who pisses longer', is just throwing more kindling into the fire. I also would have phrased it "Children competing for the most extensive duration of urination" if I was trying to be a condescending sesquipedalian.
Passion for BW is not the issue here. Correct information is. Please get that logic right.
This is the thread in its most basic sense: TL user translates from a chinese blogger something containing about KESpA stepping in with a system to keep BW alive. No one knows exactly what this system is. KESpA has not talked about it in detail, and no one in this thread has posted about it to make it factual. Yet, there is already 24 pages of statements how KESpA is evil (as seen above, rules are rules.), KESpA is the savior. KESpA is whatever. What is worse is that these statements breed into full blown discourse as if people know what they are talking about. imagine something as grave as knowing the real score about the future of professional BW. Then imagine people, without no facts whatsoever, just carelessly throwing all these wild arguments in the air about how this new system is, or will be. Now, how is that any less terrible than saying "Terran OP".
This is not even an issue of miscommunication as you seem to misunderstand. Review the posts, and you would think as if KESpA personally told these people what it plans to do. Please let's leave speculation out of here until we have solid facts to build on. And please by all means make sure you understand precisely what you are responding to before you respond to it, especially if you use words like "condescending" when that is what precisely NOT what the post is about.
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On October 02 2011 01:54 forumtext wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2011 00:51 The Black wrote:
Just wait a minute.
As far as this thread is concerned, and as far as I know, no one knows for sure ...Otherwise please stop spreading wrong information. Start "no one knows for sure" but you declare it as "wrong information" at the end. So which is it? U sure it's wrong or you aren't sure? To me your post is just as ignorant as the others if not more, it's just a "let's ban everyone for 2 days" ranting with a sugar coating on top. rumour US, rumor [ˈruːmə] n 1. a. information, often a mixture of truth and untruth, passed around verbally b. (in combination) a rumour-monger 2. gossip or hearsay 3. Archaic din or clamour 4. Obsolete fame or reputation
Ok. Logic 101:
A: Let there be an unknown thing, "UNK123"
B. Person X speculates: UNK123 is colored black
Now, did Person X say the right information? The wrong information?
Absence of fact is always sympathetic to negation of fact than affirmation of it. And logic is never about exploring linguistic nuisance, but rather establishing FACT.
All I'm saying is stop all these rumors until we have facts. What do we have now? Nothing more than a translation from chinese of a blogger not even remotely associated with KESpA. The situation is volatile as it already is. No need to stir it up some more. A little restraint doesn't hurt at this time.
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On October 02 2011 02:08 The Black wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2011 01:54 forumtext wrote:On October 02 2011 00:51 The Black wrote:
Just wait a minute.
As far as this thread is concerned, and as far as I know, no one knows for sure ...Otherwise please stop spreading wrong information. Start "no one knows for sure" but you declare it as "wrong information" at the end. So which is it? U sure it's wrong or you aren't sure? To me your post is just as ignorant as the others if not more, it's just a "let's ban everyone for 2 days" ranting with a sugar coating on top. rumour US, rumor [ˈruːmə] n 1. a. information, often a mixture of truth and untruth, passed around verbally b. (in combination) a rumour-monger 2. gossip or hearsay 3. Archaic din or clamour 4. Obsolete fame or reputation Ok. Logic 101: A: Let there be an unknown thing, "UNK123" B. Person X speculates: UNK123 is colored black Now, did Person X say the right information? The wrong information? Absence of fact is always sympathetic to negation of fact than affirmation of it. And logic is never about exploring linguistic nuisance, but rather establishing FACT.
Let's play a game. Pick the correct answer!
10 point question:
A: Let there be an unknown thing, "UNK123"
B. Person X speculates: UNK123 is colored black
Base on the information provided.
Now, did Person X say the right information?
A. Yes
B. No
C. Maybe
The wrong information?
A. Yes
B. No
C. Maybe
*tip: there is only 1 correct answer in this scenario.
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On October 02 2011 02:08 The Black wrote:
Ok. Logic 101:
A: Let there be an unknown thing, "UNK123"
B. Person X speculates: UNK123 is colored black
Now, did Person X say the right information? The wrong information?
Absence of fact is always sympathetic to negation of fact than affirmation of it. And logic is never about exploring linguistic nuisance, but rather establishing FACT.
Not really, Just because there isnt sufficient evidence to prove something isnt what it is, it doesnt mean it isnt that thing. The actual -logic- is that absence of fact isnt sympathetic to -any- particular outcome, its just absence of fact. Until UNK123 is proven to -not- be black, it may well be. Once -FACT- has been established (ie, that UNK123 is red or atleast not black), then you can make decisions based upon it.
To believe that something isnt, merely because you have seen no proof that would prove it so is actually the true Logic Blunder.
Edit: Boredom i guess.
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On October 02 2011 02:19 forumtext wrote:
Let's play a game. Pick the correct answer!
10 point question:
A: Let there be an unknown thing, "UNK123"
B. Person X speculates: UNK123 is colored black
Base on the information provided.
Now, did Person X say the right information?
A. Yes
B. No
C. Maybe
The wrong information?
A. Yes
B. No
C. Maybe
*tip: there is only 1 correct answer in this scenario.
C and A. An opinion speculated as a fact is an incorrect statement.
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On October 02 2011 20:20 fant0m wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2011 02:19 forumtext wrote:
Let's play a game. Pick the correct answer!
10 point question:
A: Let there be an unknown thing, "UNK123"
B. Person X speculates: UNK123 is colored black
Base on the information provided.
Now, did Person X say the right information?
A. Yes
B. No
C. Maybe
The wrong information?
A. Yes
B. No
C. Maybe
*tip: there is only 1 correct answer in this scenario.
C and A. An opinion speculated as a fact is an incorrect statement.
+ Show Spoiler +Sorry for derailing the thread, I am pretty sure Maybe is the only answer that is "correct" regardless of the result, because the only combinations are either 1A 2B or 1B 2A or 1C 2C, and since the first and second answer contradict eachother, with "only the information provided" only the 3rd answer is true? Also a lot of discoveries in this world started as a simple theory, if everyone dismiss them because we can't show facts first, we will still be in the stone age.
(I might be wrong so please correct me if so)
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Guess this is somewhat right place to post this, from twitter:
OrangeMilkis Wooju Lee
Rumors amongst netizens have it that the 8th team did not come to fruition and that there'll be a draft soon.
Of course, rumors are just rumors. Thanks for the 'update', Milkis
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On October 03 2011 15:22 Grettin wrote:Guess this is somewhat right place to post this, from twitter: Show nested quote +OrangeMilkis Wooju Lee
Rumors amongst netizens have it that the 8th team did not come to fruition and that there'll be a draft soon. Of course, rumors are just rumors. Thanks for the 'update', Milkis
Damn, that's not good news. I hope it's not true.
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On October 02 2011 00:51 The Black wrote:
Just wait a minute.
As far as this thread is concerned, and as far as I know, no one knows for sure what this "new management" is or how KESpA will go about the new system. In this light, most of the comments here are not only moot, but downright juvenile, irresponsible, and erroneous. Juvenile because it looks like kids trying to compete who pisses longer without any real substance to the competition. Irresponsible because everyone is arguing based on speculation and personal interpretation, nothing more, while passing it on as actual fact. And erroneous because quite simply, unless there is clear unambiguous news about it, or it came from KESpA itself, therefore it is simply not true, not grounds for any discussion, and should be immediately arrested.
In fact, if TL finds balance whining and balance/game suggestions bannable, this is even more so. Balance whining/theorycraft at least are explicitly in the realm of fiction/suggestion. This one, discussing and prolonging the discussion based on the slightest bit of information, promotes misinformation, and goes at the very heart of BW/ESports, of how it operates on the ground. How could that kind of speculative discussion been allowed to get to 24 pages is beyond me. Those who participate in that ignorance mongering are worthy of a 2-day ban at least. Put this in perspective and you will actually see how erroneous and irresponsible activities like this are detrimental to everyone.
Let us wait for someone with clear, firsthand, impeccable knowledge on this matter to elucidate it first before we try to analyze and discuss it. Otherwise please stop spreading wrong information.
I'm sorry but you have been registered for two days, what gives you the right to tell people what they can or can't speculate on? If the mods felt the thread had erroneous information they would close it. Maybe you have a very low opinion of TL but I don't see people being misguided by the information. The people who visit and participate in the BW forums are quite knowledgeable of what is happening within the Korean scene and having a place to FINALLY talk about some great developments going on is nothing but good. Calling for people to get bans for simply participating in discussion over the future of Korean e-sports is pretty laughable and your analogy to balance whining couldn't be more off the mark.
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On October 03 2011 15:48 setzer wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2011 00:51 The Black wrote:
Just wait a minute.
As far as this thread is concerned, and as far as I know, no one knows for sure what this "new management" is or how KESpA will go about the new system. In this light, most of the comments here are not only moot, but downright juvenile, irresponsible, and erroneous. Juvenile because it looks like kids trying to compete who pisses longer without any real substance to the competition. Irresponsible because everyone is arguing based on speculation and personal interpretation, nothing more, while passing it on as actual fact. And erroneous because quite simply, unless there is clear unambiguous news about it, or it came from KESpA itself, therefore it is simply not true, not grounds for any discussion, and should be immediately arrested.
In fact, if TL finds balance whining and balance/game suggestions bannable, this is even more so. Balance whining/theorycraft at least are explicitly in the realm of fiction/suggestion. This one, discussing and prolonging the discussion based on the slightest bit of information, promotes misinformation, and goes at the very heart of BW/ESports, of how it operates on the ground. How could that kind of speculative discussion been allowed to get to 24 pages is beyond me. Those who participate in that ignorance mongering are worthy of a 2-day ban at least. Put this in perspective and you will actually see how erroneous and irresponsible activities like this are detrimental to everyone.
Let us wait for someone with clear, firsthand, impeccable knowledge on this matter to elucidate it first before we try to analyze and discuss it. Otherwise please stop spreading wrong information. I'm sorry but you have been registered for two days, what gives you the right to tell people what they can or can't speculate on? If the mods felt the thread had erroneous information they would close it. Maybe you have a very low opinion of TL but I don't see people being misguided by the information. The people who visit and participate in the BW forums are quite knowledgeable of what is happening within the Korean scene and having a place to FINALLY talk about some great developments going on is nothing but good. Calling for people to get bans for simply participating in discussion over the future of Korean e-sports is pretty laughable and your analogy to balance whining couldn't be more off the mark.
I'm sorry also but I may have been registered just yesterday or 100 years ago but it does not say anything about how long I've been following BW or how much I know. Anyone can speculate on anything, but never let it pass as a discussion of facts, that's what I'm saying. We really don't know at this point, and KESpA has not said anything to bring more things to light, so for all intents and purposes, all this talk about how KESpA will manage the new system is speculation to the remotest degree. Ok? And to all those who argue on logic, please get this - in logic, when something does not exist, it is assumed more that it is NOT TRUE than it is true. Whether or not it is discovered later on is another matter enirely. And the fact of the matter is, we do not know how KESpA will do about it, so please some complicating the issue with all the wild speculations.
On topic, god that's gotta be not good news, the update from Milkis
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50756 Posts
On October 03 2011 15:22 Grettin wrote:Guess this is somewhat right place to post this, from twitter: Show nested quote +OrangeMilkis Wooju Lee
Rumors amongst netizens have it that the 8th team did not come to fruition and that there'll be a draft soon. Of course, rumors are just rumors. Thanks for the 'update', Milkis
I heard they've been having trouble but I'm not worried,they still have time.
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On October 03 2011 16:46 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2011 15:22 Grettin wrote:Guess this is somewhat right place to post this, from twitter: OrangeMilkis Wooju Lee
Rumors amongst netizens have it that the 8th team did not come to fruition and that there'll be a draft soon. Of course, rumors are just rumors. Thanks for the 'update', Milkis I heard they've been having trouble but I'm not worried,they still have time.
I hope so too. Is there a deadline or something?
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EPT
