[Spoilers] 2010-2011 Details on Proleague Final

On July 24 2011 16:43 doothegee wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +.

On July 24 2011 16:48 xccam wrote:
I had no idea that that was the case doothegee, so actualy you spoilered me.

On July 24 2011 17:06 Mortician wrote:


Why is it unfair for SKT?

On July 24 2011 17:06 Mortician wrote:


Why is it unfair for SKT?

On July 24 2011 17:35 jaQi wrote:
I got spoilered? I have not checked the result yet, but KT was 1-0 ahead so is this thread a sign for KT 2-0 ?

On July 24 2011 17:20 kuroshiroi wrote:

Mostly because the other team is on a hot streak while SKT hasn't played a game in about a month now. I feel like that could be the difference between winning and losing. Of course, SKT had this "advantage" last year and still didn't win, so who knows. It definitely feels wrong to only play 1 BO7.

On July 24 2011 18:13 moopie wrote:

... and then people will say that the lack of OP for day 3 is a spoiler. In the case of bo3s like this if you know the results of day 1 and don't watch day 2 you'll deal with it.

On July 24 2011 17:20 kuroshiroi wrote:

Mostly because the other team is on a hot streak while SKT hasn't played a game in about a month now. I feel like that could be the difference between winning and losing. Of course, SKT had this "advantage" last year and still didn't win, so who knows. It definitely feels wrong to only play 1 BO7.

On July 24 2011 18:43 Balfazar wrote:
Bah, came to TL to look at the calendar, saw this thread title in the menu bar, spoiled. Won't be bothering to watch the VODs now unless someone beat Flash.

On July 24 2011 16:56 Lightwip wrote:
I don't like the fact that the finals is a single series. Very anticlimactic in my opinion.

On July 24 2011 16:41 Ryo wrote:
6th August Century Square, Nanjing Road, Shanghai China

On July 24 2011 20:33 Doraemon wrote:


hmmm interesting, never heard of century square on nanjing road...

On July 25 2011 02:39 naneri wrote:


Me too. Maybe that is because you are Australian, I am Kyrgyz and Shanghai is in China??

On July 25 2011 04:33 nbaker wrote:
I think it's kind of shitty that the final is a single match and somewhat sacrifices the integrity of the finals for the sake of saving money or preserving excitement or whatever. + Show Spoiler +

Drink lots of water before the games, SKT fans!

On July 25 2011 04:49 Ikonn wrote:


Would you want the Superbowl to be over two legs? This adds tension and pressure without sacrificing extra money or viewership like what happened two years ago

On July 25 2011 02:24 BisuDagger wrote:
I thought Icarus would have been good for SKT, but I trust Coach Park's decision making.

+ Show Spoiler +

On July 25 2011 07:19 Cambium wrote:
T1 > KT easy in Shanghai.

Unlike CJ, T1 actually has players who are capable winning against zergs. I don't understand how Hoejja and Perfective are suddenly "good" players, other than that CJ completely sucks against Zerg.

On July 25 2011 06:43 Ryusei-R1 wrote:
Now that I've rooted against KT this entire tournament, it's time to root against SKT.

KT > SKT

LET'S GO

On July 25 2011 07:54 SimonB wrote:

I'm calling Hoejja > Bisu in the finals.

On July 24 2011 17:23 infinitestory wrote:
I hear they play only one Bo7 because they were actually losing money when people decided to only show up for the rubber match.

On July 25 2011 08:04 moopie wrote:
I think Stats in the ace makes the most sense, given CB as the map, with Bisu 7-1 vT, not to mention BeSt (who is the only toss player with decent odds vs Flash on normal maps). Stats vP > Bisu and BeSt, not that it would be a done deal or anything, but the odds favor him. Maybe Flash will prepare something special for the map though.

I trust in KT's coaches though, I'm sure they have a plan.

On July 25 2011 08:52 BisuDagger wrote:

Actually it was lol. But now I know who u are cheering for

Bisu time babay!!!!

On July 25 2011 07:54 SimonB wrote:

I'm calling Hoejja > Bisu in the finals.

On July 25 2011 08:56 Ciryandor wrote:


The time isn't even properly done man, it's supposed to be 16:30 or something like that.

On July 25 2011 08:04 moopie wrote:
I think Stats in the ace makes the most sense, given CB as the map, with Bisu 7-1 vT, not to mention BeSt (who is the only toss player with decent odds vs Flash on normal maps). Stats vP > Bisu and BeSt, not that it would be a done deal or anything, but the odds favor him. Maybe Flash will prepare something special for the map though.

I trust in KT's coaches though, I'm sure they have a plan.

On July 24 2011 18:44 gngfn wrote:

If anything, SKT has had a month for each of their players to prepare multiple builds for different contingencies. Remember how well-prepared KT seemed last year when SKT had to fight their way through the playoffs to face them? The other team this time hasn't gotten to see SKT play at all in a month, whereas SKT has seen them, and I have to imagine that Oov has been analyzing and scheming nonstop. Furthermore, while this advantage would still apply if there were multiple Bo7s, it's actually amplified with only one, because the other team won't have any chance to adjust to SKT's builds.

On July 25 2011 08:50 Hier wrote:

For the what match?

On July 25 2011 10:42 PineappleLumpsToss wrote:


Well said. This is my feeling as well.

Last year SKT was on a roll, but they were also pretty tired as well. If you've read the KT manager's interviews of late, as well as the players, they've all mentioned how they're looking forward to some recovery time. At this stage of the PL recovery and preparation time is just as important as momentum.

I'm looking forward to see whether SKT can return the favour to KT, and effectively come prepared to snipe particular players and their favoured builds. KT did it beautifully last year, so the challenge will be for Coach Park to do the same this time round. SKT is renowned for its preparation, so I'd be disappointed if we didn't see that reflected on the day.

On July 25 2011 09:33 Vuk_91 wrote:

Bisu has 64% vsP in his career while Stats is at 62% so don`t tell he has better vsP. Flash will be sent as ACE,everything else except that is just stupid.

On July 25 2011 10:52 Holgerius wrote:

Eh, d'ya remember that you gotta do some trash-talking now that KT made it to the final? :D

On July 25 2011 10:50 oBlade wrote:

...the 2008-2009 grand finals was a two-day event the same as all the playoffs had been. Now, despite that the playoffs involve multiple matches, the GF is only one day, which is both more traditional and a bigger concentration of awesome. Also, the attempt to shepherd Jaedong Oz to the gold trophy didn't actually come through in 08-09 so there was no reason to keep playing multiple days.

On July 25 2011 07:54 SimonB wrote:

I'm calling Hoejja > Bisu in the finals.

On July 25 2011 12:54 BLinD-RawR wrote:


you always seem to suggest signature betting..but meh,I'd take stats vs Bisu over HoeJJa vs Bisu.

On July 25 2011 11:18 Spica wrote:

!!!!! That's right!! You gotta keep your promise man, wear your SKT tag loud and proud and voice your support with some good ol' trash talking!

On July 25 2011 11:38 Hier wrote:

I think you misunderstood me.

On July 25 2011 14:05 PineappleLumpsToss wrote:


Hehe, I'm very aware I agreed to get my trash talking on. However, I remember quite clearly that the agreement was to trash talk in the LR thread. Fear not, for that one thread I'll try and live up to the "obnoxious SKT fan" stigma.

On July 25 2011 08:54 Ciryandor wrote:


Fantasy cannot be counted out in the ace selection for SKT, despite his losing form in PL; he has the best prepared vP that anyone can call for to use against Stats (who has had recent losses vs Light and Bogus and is 16-11 this SPL, including 5-4 in WL) in spite of his 3-2 advantage against him, and he has shown he can play a mean vT against Flash (see Bigfile MSL Semifinals) given some preparation. Just to show comparatives of the potential aces of KT:

Flash
13-5 v Fantasy (includes 3-2 in Bigfile MSL [6-3 in PL games])
15-9 v Bisu (includes 3-1 in 2008 Bacchus OSL and 2-0 in ABC Mart MSL [3-3 in PL games])
5-6 v BeSt (includes 3-0 in NATE MSL [2-5 in PL games])

Stats
3-2 v Fantasy (2-2 in PL games [other win was in MSL Survivor])
3-0 v Bisu (2-0 in PL games [other win was an OSL prelim])
2-0 v BeSt (Both in current season's Winners' League)

Given these statistics, if Flash were to play, SKT would like to have BeSt, then Bisu, then Fantasy; while if it was Stats playing, Fantasy would undisputably be the best choice. Most of Fantasy's PL losses to Flash were last season, and they have only faced once this season in Winners' League in an epic game on Benzene.

TL;DR KT should think of all of BBF as potential ace threats.

On July 25 2011 14:16 Caladbolg wrote:
The great thing about being an SKT fan is that people actually EXPECT you to be obnoxious, unreasonable, and an unadulterated bandwagoning fanboy. It's the only chance I really get to be proud of being an idiot.

On July 25 2011 20:15 writer22816 wrote:
Why would the SKT coach send Best instead of Bisu lol, similar PvT but Bisu can actually play 2 other matchups as well. He may have sent Best before, but on the ace match of the entire PL finals, Best is definitely not coming out. It will be either Bisu or an ultra-prepared Fantasy.

On July 25 2011 20:52 Dakkas wrote:


For ace match? The most logical choice for KT is to send Flash and Best is SKT1's best shot at taking him out. In PL, there's only two people that I'd take over Flash and that's Jaedong and Best

On July 25 2011 20:52 Dakkas wrote:


For ace match? The most logical choice for KT is to send Flash and Best is SKT1's best shot at taking him out. In PL, there's only two people that I'd take over Flash and that's Jaedong and Best

On July 25 2011 21:54 Lachrymose wrote:


They went with Bisu for WL and he got the job done. Seems solid.

On July 25 2011 20:52 Dakkas wrote:


For ace match? The most logical choice for KT is to send Flash and Best is SKT1's best shot at taking him out. In PL, there's only two people that I'd take over Flash and that's Jaedong and Best

On July 25 2011 23:52 ffreakk wrote:
For ur info Bisu no longer has losing head-to-head vs Shine..

You guys need to quit the Shine thing and find ur new favourite chobo Zerg

On July 26 2011 02:19 xXFireandIceXx wrote:
even if Flash wins 1 game, as long as Bisu, Fantasy, Best, and By.Sun (and other SKT zergs too...) win their respective games, SKT will still take it. just don't sacrifice any players to play Flash and simply beat everyone else

On July 26 2011 02:19 xXFireandIceXx wrote:
even if Flash wins 1 game, as long as Bisu, Fantasy, Best, and By.Sun (and other SKT zergs too...) win their respective games, SKT will still take it. just don't sacrifice any players to play Flash and simply beat everyone else

On July 26 2011 03:44 GolemMadness wrote:


If SKT wins 4 games, they'll win the match. Well said.

On July 25 2011 23:40 Sawamura wrote:


tell that to shine as he will beg to differ.

On July 26 2011 04:13 Condor Hero wrote:

please, bisu got over shine before this monster season started

shines had his moment in the sun and now you gonna see him disappear

On July 25 2011 23:54 Sawamura wrote:

I want to see a bo5 of Shine v Bisu lets see how many time bisu can cannon rush and not die to hydra all in gg bisu fan's cry.

On July 24 2011 16:03 Sawamura wrote:

FUCK YOU AND YOUR HATRED AGAINST KT YOU BIAS BASTARD

User was warned for this post

On December 16 2010 19:23 Sawamura wrote:

Same here bro >< I can't believe flash lost T_T

On July 26 2011 05:19 gueva RA wrote:

Why is there new map order if KT won, and same maps if CJ won?

On July 26 2011 05:44 Vasoline73 wrote:
As a KT fan I can say SKT zergs scare me only because Action Roo and Hoejja can't ZvZ well...

On July 26 2011 09:31 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Nope, 1 Bo7 for it all.

On July 26 2011 09:33 xXFireandIceXx wrote:


Man, am I the only one not liking this format? I mean, you have the quarterfinals and semifinals as 3 sets of BO7s and for the GRAND FINAL, you have one?

On July 26 2011 09:33 xXFireandIceXx wrote:


Man, am I the only one not liking this format? I mean, you have the quarterfinals and semifinals as 3 sets of BO7s and for the GRAND FINAL, you have one?

On July 26 2011 09:37 matjlav wrote:


It's supposed to increase the excitement. There's more pressure when it's all one big event. Also, you don't want people booking plane tickets to China for the 3rd night and then one of the teams wins 2-0, lol.

But yeah, it's kind of unfortunate in that we don't get as many games :/

On July 26 2011 09:46 icystorage wrote:

and with 6 1 hour TvTs (2 per bo7 including ace match and assuming they send fantasy), flash would lose his hand lol

On July 26 2011 12:32 dRaW wrote:
Hmm wow, KT has insane momentum going into this and I'm scared for SKT. I am really hoping Fantasy will be in form, and bisu can beat either stats or Flash (revenge)

On July 26 2011 12:27 Katsuge wrote:
well KT has proven in recent playoffs that their opponents will somehow underperform..(just look at horang2 and movie's stats prior to playoffs)..i wonder if the same will happen to SKT.

We just have to wait and see :D

On July 26 2011 17:19 Sawamura wrote:


who cares sue me

On July 26 2011 17:16 Lightwip wrote:

To be fair though, CJ, Stars, and Khan are teams that have some sort of obligation to fail in the largest of stages. This isn't the first time all of those teams choked.

On July 26 2011 17:43 _romantic wrote:


Surely it's their fault for choking and not KT's fault for stepping up.

I remember you singing a very, very different tune when those same teams lost to SKT last year.

On July 26 2011 17:43 _romantic wrote:


Surely it's their fault for choking and not KT's fault for stepping up.

I remember you singing a very, very different tune when those same teams lost to SKT last year.

On July 26 2011 17:47 Lightwip wrote:

Actually no, you're pretty much lying right now. SKT didn't play those teams in PO.
Glad to have the biggest KTroll back I guess. It was a nice 5 months of peace.

On July 21 2010 14:10 Lightwip wrote:
To be fair, Snow played really well in the ace match. He just lost because Bisu is by far the better player. Effort would've lost as well.

On July 26 2011 17:47 Lightwip wrote:

Actually no, you're pretty much lying right now. SKT didn't play those teams in PO.
Glad to have the biggest KTroll back I guess. It was a nice 5 months of peace.

On July 26 2011 18:20 _romantic wrote:


You've always been a bigger troll than me, Lightwip. You pretty much define passive-aggressive posting on TL net.

One of these days I'm going to go down your post history and see how many times I can find that sort of behavior. =D

On July 26 2011 18:51 Gummy wrote:

Speaking of going down your post history, I believe a quick look at yours will reveal that you have double-posted.
For shame.

OT: SKT winning this is probably most plausible because KTFlash is looking particularly vulnerable. Even in a format such as Winner's League, SKT was able to bring the depth of their team into play against KT's one-man monsoon, and the whole thing was over in a Flash.

On July 26 2011 17:47 Lightwip wrote:

Actually no, you're pretty much lying right now. SKT didn't play those teams in PO.
Glad to have the biggest KTroll back I guess. It was a nice 5 months of peace.

On July 26 2011 17:16 Lightwip wrote:

To be fair though, CJ, Stars, and Khan are teams that have some sort of obligation to fail in the largest of stages. This isn't the first time all of those teams choked.

On July 26 2011 19:28 Kipsate wrote:


KT hasn't been a oneman team in the playoffs.

On July 26 2011 19:30 TwoToneTerran wrote:


What the hell, dude? Do you legitimately think it's okay to insult someone like this just because they disagree?

edit- BTW, you played CJ and STX the same as KT, the difference was we played woongjin while you played Wemade, and I'm not sure how woongjin is any more or less chokeworthy than wemade.

On July 26 2011 18:51 Gummy wrote:

Speaking of going down your post history, I believe a quick look at yours will reveal that you have double-posted.
For shame.

OT: SKT winning this is probably most plausible because KTFlash is looking particularly vulnerable. Even in a format such as Winner's League, SKT was able to bring the depth of their team into play against KT's one-man monsoon, and the whole thing was over in a Flash.

On July 27 2011 00:13 BLinD-RawR wrote:


1800KST I believe.

On July 26 2011 20:45 TwoToneTerran wrote:
I also totally missed this but oh man:



...

Khan is a choke team.

You just...what? Khan were not only playoff regulars over the past few years, but multiple time finalists and winners.

Khan hasn't choked in playoffs for like the last five years. Not once. They almost constantly play above expectation and all of their losses are hard fought. You're ridiculous if you think Khan is a choke team.

Do you just think anyone who loses choked?

On July 26 2011 20:55 _romantic wrote:


Quite true--KT has depth, although the deck is probably still stacked in SKT's favor since they have a very strategic coach and players notoriously good at execution (rf. Kingdom's discussion about Bisu).

To be honest, KT vs SKT isn't about one man teams--it's about Flash vs. Oov, the current Terran genius vs. the Terran genius of old, an asymmetrical fight between one really great player who gets to directly shape how two rounds go vs. another great player who gets to shape how each round might be fought.

On July 27 2011 01:39 Ravencruiser wrote:
Can Oov still play league games or is he a full time coach now?

I will donate all my savings to PL if both coaches sends Reach and Oov respectively for the grand finals ace, hoping for a 2001 old school style 1 vs 1 base PvT.

On July 27 2011 12:10 xarthaz wrote:
Well theres

Set 4 < La Mancha >
Set 5 < Fortress SE >
Set 6 < New Empire of the Sun >

3 terran maps in a row so Barracks and Flash could do a lot of damage here, hard to see SKT winning the title unless they get an early lead in sets 1-3 to compensate.

On July 27 2011 01:42 hacklebeast wrote:


Unfortunately oov can no longer play. But if they let stargirls play in the all star game, I will continue to hope to see him there one day.

On July 27 2011 01:01 Ciryandor wrote:
It is ONE Bo7 man. 2 direct chances for Flash, 7 indirect chances for oov, if you want to put it that way.

Here's the rub. IMO KT will have to win with 2 Zergs to win it all, it would be stressful at best to win it on ace with Flash not in tiptop shape and much as I prefer to see a 100% Flash doing the ace match; we don't have that luxury today. Conversely, if SKT wants to win this, at least 2 of their second line (s2, soO, maybe Hyuk and by.sun) of players have to get wins; as they can't rely on BBF getting three wins (either via snipes or simply bad match-ups).

On July 28 2011 20:21 endy wrote:
According to Fomos, Jaedong and Tossgirl will attend the finals !

On July 29 2011 15:25 TheNessman wrote:
??? sorry but WHEN is this match? is it tomorrow night!?!?

On July 24 2011 16:41 Ryo wrote:
6th August Century Square, Nanjing Road, Shanghai China

On July 29 2011 06:58 Ikonn wrote:
I think Best is going to be SKT's ace no matter what, just like he was going to be last year

On July 29 2011 16:07 ffreakk wrote:


I dont know about that. I think that SKT's and KT's players forms going into this Grand Finals are wayyy different from that of last year.

BeSt was on a huge vT tear last year (up to early this season), Bisu was... fresh off a longgg slump. This season though, things are completely different, almost opposite. So i dont agree that BeSt is as definite an Ace choice as you think.

On July 29 2011 17:21 nayumi wrote:
Rain is gonna be T1's ace ... anyone remember the Sea lesson? that's right

On July 29 2011 18:02 seRapH wrote:
SKT 4-2 Fantasy > Hoejja last set and Hoejja goes home crying. ^^

Yes, just like last season.

On July 29 2011 19:06 One Page Memory wrote:
Do the teams give complete lineups for whole match or decide a set by set?

On July 29 2011 16:07 ffreakk wrote:


I dont know about that. I think that SKT's and KT's players forms going into this Grand Finals are wayyy different from that of last year.

BeSt was on a huge vT tear last year (up to early this season), Bisu was... fresh off a longgg slump. This season though, things are completely different, almost opposite. So i dont agree that BeSt is as definite an Ace choice as you think.