And also to fix the scourge AI, can scourge AI be fixed? Hopefully, coz I really hate the scourge unpredictably turning while slowing down before bumping into the unit. Maybe need increase the accel. Damn, it seems to be all zerg. The only reason not to implement these fixes would seem to be bcoz zerg are winning a lot these days which isn't a good reason at all.
But anyway, I think the other races have their own optimization/convenience fixes but I can't seem to put my finger on them. I remembered there was another but non-zerg one. I can't seem to remember what it really is.
For those who are about to request obvious balance changes, Bliz has confirmed that there'll be NO BALANCE CHANGES for 1.12. So, don't waste your breath, kids.
EDIT: So far we have... 1. Fix lurker to have hold button feature without use of overlords.(or remove the bug itself.) 2. Fix scourge AI of slowing down before ramming. 3. Prevent change of allegiance midgame to prevent allied mines. 4. Dragoon AI has problem too?(saw this at bnet forums) 5. Fix lurker doing double damage at death. 6. Reaver/Scarab AI?(Seems fine for me.) 7. Goliath AI?(This also seems fine for me) 8. Observer over turret
personally i just hope it makes storm kill lurks in one hit again, pvz is totally imbalanced now. there's no way for toss to counter lurker/scourge. we need storm to kill lurks or comsat or something else.
On February 09 2005 13:03 Famouzze wrote: personally i just hope it makes storm kill lurks in one hit again, pvz is totally imbalanced now. there's no way for toss to counter lurker/scourge. we need storm to kill lurks or comsat or something else.
You idiot, there's no hold posistion button, because the LURKER CAN ONLY HOLD POSISTION. it's fucking burrowed, it cannot move. That shit with the overlord is a BUG
On February 09 2005 13:03 Famouzze wrote: personally i just hope it makes storm kill lurks in one hit again, pvz is totally imbalanced now. there's no way for toss to counter lurker/scourge. we need storm to kill lurks or comsat or something else.
Oh plz....no more imbal speeches. If you think pvz is unfair, stop playing P.
On February 09 2005 13:17 hasuwar wrote: You idiot, there's no hold posistion button, because the LURKER CAN ONLY HOLD POSISTION. it's fucking burrowed, it cannot move. That shit with the overlord is a BUG
Do u have to be such a dick when u post? Stop being a faggot and start posting things in a better manner..get your dick out your ass. Capitalizing your words makes you seem like a fucking idiot...how bout showing some respect and leave the insults up ur ass.
On February 09 2005 13:17 hasuwar wrote: You idiot, there's no hold posistion button, because the LURKER CAN ONLY HOLD POSISTION. it's fucking burrowed, it cannot move. That shit with the overlord is a BUG
Do u have to be such a dick when u post? Stop being a faggot and start posting things in a better manner..get your dick out your ass. Capitalizing your words makes you seem like a fucking idiot...how bout showing some respect and leave the insults up ur ass.
On February 09 2005 13:17 hasuwar wrote: You idiot, there's no hold posistion button, because the LURKER CAN ONLY HOLD POSISTION. it's fucking burrowed, it cannot move. That shit with the overlord is a BUG
Do u have to be such a dick when u post? Stop being a faggot and start posting things in a better manner..get your dick out your ass. Capitalizing your words makes you seem like a fucking idiot...how bout showing some respect and leave the insults up ur ass.
You can take your manner, wad it up into a nice little ball, and shove it up your ass. The caps show emphasis, do you know what that means? I've seen so many topics about this, and so many people thinking that that stupid ass bug is a special game feature, and then complain about allied mines. It's bullshit. Don't ever reply to me again
On February 09 2005 13:17 hasuwar wrote: You idiot, there's no hold posistion button, because the LURKER CAN ONLY HOLD POSISTION. it's fucking burrowed, it cannot move. That shit with the overlord is a BUG
Do u have to be such a dick when u post? Stop being a faggot and start posting things in a better manner..get your dick out your ass. Capitalizing your words makes you seem like a fucking idiot...how bout showing some respect and leave the insults up ur ass.
You can take your manner, wad it up into a nice little ball, and shove it up your ass. The caps show emphasis, do you know what that means? I've seen so many topics about this, and so many people thinking that that stupid ass bug is a special game feature, and then complain about allied mines. It's bullshit. Don't ever reply to me again
Sorry buddy i dont roll that way..im not into sticking shit up my ass like you might be. Oh and by the way.. theres an italics button...u can click on that to "emphasize" whatever it is u need to without insulting people because they dont know something. Pathetic fuck. If you reply to me...Your Gay.
Is holding lurkers like making it so they don't attack as soon as they see? So attacking a building in fog of war... pressing stop like a madman, and pressing hold position while you have ovie selected with lurkers?
On February 09 2005 13:17 hasuwar wrote: You idiot, there's no hold posistion button, because the LURKER CAN ONLY HOLD POSISTION. it's fucking burrowed, it cannot move. That shit with the overlord is a BUG
Well, many players are using it legally and traditionally has become a feature of the Lurker. It has that zerg ambush feel to it. So maybe it can be added. >=)
Well, for allied mines. The problem is allowing players to change alliance midgame. Therefore, players shouldn't be allowed to change alliance in-game. Alright, we got another nice fix required for 1.12.
On February 09 2005 13:03 Famouzze wrote: personally i just hope it makes storm kill lurks in one hit again, pvz is totally imbalanced now. there's no way for toss to counter lurker/scourge. we need storm to kill lurks or comsat or something else.
You suck. P's win on good maps. Give reach 1 hit KO storm and he'll never ever lose a PvZ again.
On February 09 2005 13:54 eG)HeavenS wrote: yep..if u have a lurker along with an ovi selected and u press hold, the lurker wont attack until u tell it to.
Or you can click attack on a building under fog of war.
On February 09 2005 13:17 hasuwar wrote: You idiot, there's no hold posistion button, because the LURKER CAN ONLY HOLD POSISTION. it's fucking burrowed, it cannot move. That shit with the overlord is a BUG
Do u have to be such a dick when u post? Stop being a faggot and start posting things in a better manner..get your dick out your ass. Capitalizing your words makes you seem like a fucking idiot...how bout showing some respect and leave the insults up ur ass.
You can take your manner, wad it up into a nice little ball, and shove it up your ass. The caps show emphasis, do you know what that means? I've seen so many topics about this, and so many people thinking that that stupid ass bug is a special game feature, and then complain about allied mines. It's bullshit. Don't ever reply to me again
Sorry buddy i dont roll that way..im not into sticking shit up my ass like you might be. Oh and by the way.. theres an italics button...u can click on that to "emphasize" whatever it is u need to without insulting people because they dont know something. Pathetic fuck. If you reply to me...Your Gay.
Really? because all you talked about was, faggots, dicks, and things up asses..are you sure you aren't gay?
Italics doesn't do shit for emphasizing, we aren't in some college english class you dink. I had to insult him, because what he said was the stupidest shit I've ever read. He's talking about patch .12, and wanting to add a bug to gameplay, which is fucking gay. Stop trolling my posts you fucking retard. Btw, nice job fixing your typos and shit, trying to make yourself look better..it didn't work
How about making storm irradiate all units who survive the first storm and then ensnare them? Maybe storm should plant 5 spider mines per storm in that area.
On February 09 2005 13:03 Famouzze wrote: personally i just hope it makes storm kill lurks in one hit again, pvz is totally imbalanced now. there's no way for toss to counter lurker/scourge. we need storm to kill lurks or comsat or something else.
eS)Heaven it's ok, Hasuwar is such a great SC player that he feels forced to exert his dominance by making others feel stupid or inferior over a computer game. Just leave him be if he doesn't want to be mannered.
On February 09 2005 13:03 Famouzze wrote: personally i just hope it makes storm kill lurks in one hit again, pvz is totally imbalanced now. there's no way for toss to counter lurker/scourge. we need storm to kill lurks or comsat or something else.
You suck. P's win on good maps. Give reach 1 hit KO storm and he'll never ever lose a PvZ again.
Seriously..that would be art...reach with 1 hit KO storm owning all zergs -.-;;
On February 09 2005 14:01 SoLaR[i.C] wrote: eS)Heaven it's ok, Hasuwar is such a great SC player that he feels forced to exert his dominance by making others feel stupid or inferior over a computer game. Just leave him be if he doesn't want to be mannered.
The only thing I feel forced to do is keep it real. Btw, what I said has nothing to do with anything over a computer game, how good I am at starcraft, or making anyone feel stupid. What I said is more of a wake up call, to try to make people realize that holding lurkers is a bug, and shouldn't be treated any different than allied mines
Maybe it's a lack of features? You know you can always hold lurkers using the regular interface ssssssssss will hold them. I think blizz was just too lazy to code a hold-fire button.
On February 09 2005 14:16 Hippopotamus wrote: Maybe it's a lack of features? You know you can always hold lurkers using the regular interface ssssssssss will hold them. I think blizz was just too lazy to code a hold-fire button.
Ya i agree completely, it would add another element to microing units. like if you're cliffing someone and u dont want ur tank to shoot yet and give it away before u get turrets up.
On February 09 2005 14:05 SuNDAnce wrote: Just three words : Fuck the balance changes I'm tired of threads like this.
Looking for smart fix/optimizations/convenience requests here not balance changes requests. The lurker hold may affect balance a bit tho, or maybe none at all.
Yeah, you can sssssss, but sometimes a spine will slip out still..and while you're doing that, you can't do anything else.
That wouldn't really be another element for anything else.. if you want to turret up a cliff, you simply drop them on the back side of the cliff, or don't drop the scvs and leave it in the shuttle if the cliff is too small. I can't think of any other practical use of a hold fire button, other than splashing marines dead
On February 09 2005 13:17 hasuwar wrote: You idiot, there's no hold posistion button, because the LURKER CAN ONLY HOLD POSISTION. it's fucking burrowed, it cannot move. That shit with the overlord is a BUG
Do u have to be such a dick when u post? Stop being a faggot and start posting things in a better manner..get your dick out your ass. Capitalizing your words makes you seem like a fucking idiot...how bout showing some respect and leave the insults up ur ass.
You can take your manner, wad it up into a nice little ball, and shove it up your ass. The caps show emphasis, do you know what that means? I've seen so many topics about this, and so many people thinking that that stupid ass bug is a special game feature, and then complain about allied mines. It's bullshit. Don't ever reply to me again
Sorry buddy i dont roll that way..im not into sticking shit up my ass like you might be. Oh and by the way.. theres an italics button...u can click on that to "emphasize" whatever it is u need to without insulting people because they dont know something. Pathetic fuck. If you reply to me...Your Gay.
Really? because all you talked about was, faggots, dicks, and things up asses..are you sure you aren't gay?
Italics doesn't do shit for emphasizing, we aren't in some college english class you dink. I had to insult him, because what he said was the stupidest shit I've ever read. He's talking about patch .12, and wanting to add a bug to gameplay, which is fucking gay. Stop trolling my posts you fucking retard. Btw, nice job fixing your typos and shit, trying to make yourself look better..it didn't work
You didnt "have to" insult anyone lol...its funny that im the one trolling ur posts when u were the one to notice my "edited on bla blah" ... which btw was to edit Youy to Your in the "Your Gay" part...lol hypocrite. Anyways seriously stop posting kid u sound like an idiot. And you must be one if u think italics are only used to emphasize things in college classes..please grow up.
Please, take your own advice.. You're the one who looks like a fucking idiot. Do you even know what trolling is? Here's a guy trying to lecture me about italics, who can't even fucking spell You're.. give me a break. How many people have you seen using italics on this page? Any? See ya
ur an idiot, u can do the hold with any unit that has the option, and make all units in the group do that option, its not an 'overlord' bug, its just usually the most convienent to use the ovies, but it will work with lings, hydras, muta, ultra, broodlings, queens, gaurds, devs, w/e. grow a brain
im not trying to proofread my shit and make it look prefect..all i said is u dont have to capitalize ur shit cuz u look like an idiot. and yes i do know what trolling is...how bout u look it up: www.dictionary.com . show some manners is all, its cuz of people like you the world is a shithole. anyways if u want we can settle this in a better fashion. 1v1?
Edit: Here i made it easier Trolling- To patrol (an area) in search for someone or something.
unless u meant the fishing definition, which you didnt, stfu.
On February 09 2005 14:49 LumberJack wrote: ur an idiot, u can do the hold with any unit that has the option, and make all units in the group do that option, its not an 'overlord' bug, its just usually the most convienent to use the ovies, but it will work with lings, hydras, muta, ultra, broodlings, queens, gaurds, devs, w/e. grow a brain
Really, have you tried that? Way to self own yourself
On February 09 2005 14:49 eG)HeavenS wrote: im not trying to proofread my shit and make it look prefect..all i said is u dont have to capitalize ur shit cuz u look like an idiot. and yes i do know what trolling is...how bout u look it up: www.dictionary.com . show some manners is all, its cuz of people like you the world is a shithole. anyways if u want we can settle this in a better fashion. 1v1?
Edit: Here i made it easier Trolling- To patrol (an area) in search for someone or something.
unless u meant the fishing definition, which you didnt, stfu.
no, if that's all you would have said, instead of spouting out a bunch of stupid ass bullshit like you did, i wouldn't have bothered responding to you.
You could have just said "No, I don't know what trolling is", btw. Dictionary.com didn't bail you out
rofl..i havent been trying to teach anyone about no fucking italics...i really could give a shit where ur ignorance takes u. im guessing this means no 1;1?
On February 09 2005 13:31 M2 wrote: maybe protoss scout should be observer also(why the hell its name is scout ,when he is too slow for scouting:-))
THAT WOULD OWN!!! then you could just go stargate and fucking fuck the damn robotics (i mean.... 200/200 + 50/100 + 25/75 for 1 obs?? i mean cmon :S).... seriously that would solve alot.... you could actually survive against lurkers if they did this :D
Edit : amen brother. lol, I stop going to this site for a few days and look at all these litle children fighting sheesh, what I want fixed is that stupid observer of the missle turrent bug, I mean even if you just have to press stop 10 times or something to make it work, and it looks 'cool' with the missle spinning around the turrent until it hits the observer, (run on sentence flame me on bad grammar Hasuwar//eg)Heaven :D) as cool as it looks, Id like that to be fixed btw, i dont need to quote because he probably already knows it but actualy its 'shitholes' who make other people act like shit holes, and i quote from one of my good friends
My good Friend wrote: It takes a dumbass to talk to a dumbass, it takes a dumbass to call someone a dumbass, It takes a dumbass to annoy a dumbass, So stop talking to me! Or Ill look like a dumbass! .
On February 09 2005 13:03 Famouzze wrote: personally i just hope it makes storm kill lurks in one hit again, pvz is totally imbalanced now. there's no way for toss to counter lurker/scourge. we need storm to kill lurks or comsat or something else.
On February 09 2005 13:17 hasuwar wrote: You idiot, there's no hold posistion button, because the LURKER CAN ONLY HOLD POSISTION. it's fucking burrowed, it cannot move. That shit with the overlord is a BUG
Do u have to be such a dick when u post? Stop being a faggot and start posting things in a better manner..get your dick out your ass. Capitalizing your words makes you seem like a fucking idiot...how bout showing some respect and leave the insults up ur ass.
all we need is cheaper observatory and support bay upgrades and obs need slightly more life (like enough to survive one scourge, kinda lame that an obs costs the same as 2 scourge) Then PvZ will be balanced imo and it wont effect pvt hardly at all. This would make fast reaver with shuttle upgrade actually viable and you wont have to spend a fuck load to make your obs usefull.
the hold position lurker thing is ridiculous. how could you want a "hold position" command added to lurkers that makes them not attack? the fix would be to get rid of the bug with overlords, as has already been mentioned. no other units can be put in hold position and not attack, that's not what hold position is for.
On February 09 2005 16:01 EchoOfRain wrote: all we need is cheaper observatory and support bay upgrades and obs need slightly more life (like enough to survive one scourge, kinda lame that an obs costs the same as 2 scourge) Then PvZ will be balanced imo and it wont effect pvt hardly at all. This would make fast reaver with shuttle upgrade actually viable and you wont have to spend a fuck load to make your obs usefull.
If Observers had enough life to withstand a Scourge hit then they'd have like 40 shield and 75 life or something. If you buff them up that much you'd better make them 2 supply and give them a longer build time =]
I hope Z burrowed unit wont unburow when been attacked, i told them to burrow, and they must obey even if they die. and yeah, i think they should add lurk hold position becauee it gives it kind of "ambush" feeling of it, its a lurker after all.
On February 09 2005 13:03 Famouzze wrote: personally i just hope it makes storm kill lurks in one hit again, pvz is totally imbalanced now. there's no way for toss to counter lurker/scourge. we need storm to kill lurks or comsat or something else.
You suck. P's win on good maps. Give reach 1 hit KO storm and he'll never ever lose a PvZ again.
On February 09 2005 13:03 Famouzze wrote: personally i just hope it makes storm kill lurks in one hit again, pvz is totally imbalanced now. there's no way for toss to counter lurker/scourge. we need storm to kill lurks or comsat or something else.
... What are you drunk?
dude, it's a simple statement of fact. there is no toss unit or combination of units that counters lurker/scourge. there's just nothing toss can do outside of totally outmacro/micro the zerg. that's not right.
there's a reason every zerg goes lurker/scourge, and i know u do it too
On February 09 2005 16:55 Famouzze wrote: dude, it's a simple statement of fact. there is no toss unit or combination of units that counters lurker/scourge. there's just nothing toss can do outside of totally outmacro/micro the zerg. that's not right.
there's a reason every zerg goes lurker/scourge, and i know u do it too
On February 09 2005 13:00 Aerox wrote: And also to fix the scourge AI, can scourge AI be fixed? Hopefully, coz I really hate the scourge unpredictably turning while slowing down before bumping into the unit. Maybe need increase the accel. Damn, it seems to be all zerg. The only reason not to implement these fixes would seem to be bcoz zerg are winning a lot these days which isn't a good reason at all.
But anyway, I think the other races have their own optimization/convenience fixes but I can't seem to put my finger on them. I remembered there was another but non-zerg one. I can't seem to remember what it really is.
For those who are about to request obvious balance changes, Bliz has confirmed that there'll be NO BALANCE CHANGES for 1.12. So, don't waste your breath, kids.
EDIT: So far we have... 1. Fix lurker to have hold button feature without use of overlords.(or remove the bug with olord.) 2. Fix scourge AI of slowing down before ramming. 3. Prevent change of allegiance midgame to prevent allied mines. 4. Dragoon AI has problem too?(saw this at bnet forums) 5. Fix lurker doing double damage at death.
1. Disagree, how lazy can you be, you can't find ONE ovie? 2. yeah thats annoying, and has lost me games 3. Sorry can't let this one happen, if you do that then it becomes IMPOSSIBLE to backstabb, which in my oppinion totally destroyes any game with a friend. Me and my one friend ALWAYS backstab eachother, and its the funnest part of the game. 4. Yes fix please 5. I like this feature
Unfortunately, unlike Allied Mines, it's quite easy to "accidentally" activate hold-lurkers. So it's just a lot easier to make it legal for tournament play.
If it were illegal, we'd have so many arguments over invalid matches etc. And Zerg players would have to tip-toe around making sure they don't accidentally hold a unit group that happens to have a couple of lurkers in it.
All i want is Reaver AI fix, Goli AI improvement, Scourge, and they said they are redoing the maps so that'll be cool.. unless it's just re-lining up minerals and gas...
And how cool would it be if they did something like War3 ladder cept not as slow?
On February 09 2005 13:03 Famouzze wrote: personally i just hope it makes storm kill lurks in one hit again, pvz is totally imbalanced now. there's no way for toss to counter lurker/scourge. we need storm to kill lurks or comsat or something else.
You suck. P's win on good maps. Give reach 1 hit KO storm and he'll never ever lose a PvZ again.
On February 09 2005 13:03 Famouzze wrote: personally i just hope it makes storm kill lurks in one hit again, pvz is totally imbalanced now. there's no way for toss to counter lurker/scourge. we need storm to kill lurks or comsat or something else.
... What are you drunk?
dude, it's a simple statement of fact. there is no toss unit or combination of units that counters lurker/scourge. there's just nothing toss can do outside of totally outmacro/micro the zerg. that's not right.
there's a reason every zerg goes lurker/scourge, and i know u do it too
For fuck's sake, stop talking. "Lurker/scourge can't be beaten" bullshit. You must be a competely newbie if you can't beat lurker/scourge of all things, its not hard in the least.
Don't even bother replying to this, you ignorant fucktard. You used to be good, now you know nothing.
On February 09 2005 18:30 Chris307 wrote: Hold-lurkers is a bug.
Unfortunately, unlike Allied Mines, it's quite easy to "accidentally" activate hold-lurkers. So it's just a lot easier to make it legal for tournament play.
If it were illegal, we'd have so many arguments over invalid matches etc. And Zerg players would have to tip-toe around making sure they don't accidentally hold a unit group that happens to have a couple of lurkers in it.
I think it's extremely obvious when someone abuses the hold lurker bug..I see you are under the impression that it works with any unit holding posistion, it doesn't. It only works with overlords. What are the chances that you'd have overlords, lurkers, and other units in the same hotkey, that you'd want to hold posistion, while your lurkers are burrowed.. I know it's never came up in my game
I think the main reason this is so socially accepted, is that some tards on wgtour didn't consider it a bug, "because you can do it in the game!" which is just soo god damn stupid, and then it became the standard of play
On February 09 2005 14:26 hasuwar wrote: Yeah, you can sssssss, but sometimes a spine will slip out still..and while you're doing that, you can't do anything else.
That wouldn't really be another element for anything else.. if you want to turret up a cliff, you simply drop them on the back side of the cliff, or don't drop the scvs and leave it in the shuttle if the cliff is too small. I can't think of any other practical use of a hold fire button, other than splashing marines dead
i want hold position for workers
i'm sure you know you can hold worker by combine select a marine/zealot/etc
On February 09 2005 18:30 Chris307 wrote: Hold-lurkers is a bug.
Unfortunately, unlike Allied Mines, it's quite easy to "accidentally" activate hold-lurkers. So it's just a lot easier to make it legal for tournament play.
If it were illegal, we'd have so many arguments over invalid matches etc. And Zerg players would have to tip-toe around making sure they don't accidentally hold a unit group that happens to have a couple of lurkers in it.
Hold lurker without having to use an overlord would be insane. Because, the incentive to use hold lurker is lessened by having to use an ovie and then I would have to look out for lurker ambushes EVERYWHERE. You would have to be so careful and your scans would run out too quickly. Terrans would never leave their base, at least not early game.
And the double lurker damage thing I think is needed. I mean, that seems pretty detrimental to me if they remove that feature. Whether or not it should be removed, I guess we'll see because Zergs will either be fine or they'll start dropping like flies in the leagues. Maybe I'm overplaying the usefulness but we'll see!
u morons, why post ur reqs here, blizzard slackers aint gonna read shit. even u post ur reqs on bnet, they dont give a shit as well. the patch is already done, changes made r lists on their site, if the changes does not include ur reqs then its too bad stick with it
About the hold lurkers thing. I don't see any real reason NOT to do it. The main skill factor right now resides not in holding the lurker (come on, ANYONE can group a lurker with an overlord and press H), but with timing the un-hold action. You STILL have to press Attack or Stop to make the lurker start dealing damage. Sure it's a bug, but in case you haven't noticed publicly accepted bugs have a tendency of making it into the mainstream, Quake and strafe-jumping being one such example. So, why not do it in SC?
As a sidenote, I really really don't understand users who feel a compelling urge to throw shit at someone just because they disagree with their opinion. Having emotional problems? Go take a hike or w/e, don't spill your frustration over the internet, it simply sucks.
every other unit on hold position still attacks -- workers, rines, zealots, whatever. if blizzard were to give lurkers a hold position button, it would only make sense if it had the same functionality as any other hold position: stand still and retain the ability to attack when an enemy unit comes into range.
hey, guess what, burrowed lurkers can't move.
if they're going to fix bugs, they should take a look at every problem that's been mentioned a billion times in other threads all over the sc community: scarab AI, goon AI, goliath AI, lurkers-stacking-on-ramps-and-getting-stuck, etc. -- bugs that are problems with the game's system leading to disadvantages that aren't the players fault.
On February 09 2005 16:01 EchoOfRain wrote: all we need is cheaper observatory and support bay upgrades and obs need slightly more life (like enough to survive one scourge, kinda lame that an obs costs the same as 2 scourge) Then PvZ will be balanced imo and it wont effect pvt hardly at all. This would make fast reaver with shuttle upgrade actually viable and you wont have to spend a fuck load to make your obs usefull.
If Observers had enough life to withstand a Scourge hit then they'd have like 40 shield and 75 life or something. If you buff them up that much you'd better make them 2 supply and give them a longer build time =]
actually they would just need life 50 life and like 30 sheild, they take half damage from scourge, they still do full to sheilds. Im not exactly sure how the calculation works but i think they would survive that. And 80 life is nothing if you consider that 2 scourge cost the same and terran can build turrets for 75 minerals...
[QUOTE]On February 09 2005 16:53 Famouzze wrote: [QUOTE]On February 09 2005 13:55 FrozenArbiter wrote: [QUOTE]On February 09 2005 13:03 Famouzze wrote: personally i just hope it makes storm kill lurks in one hit again, pvz is totally imbalanced now. there's no way for toss to counter lurker/scourge. we need storm to kill lurks or comsat or something else.[/QUOTE] You suck. P's win on good maps. so u don't think tosses ever lost pvz until 1.08?[/QUOTE] First of all Reach is not toss in general, he has probably the most gosu storms of any toss player ever......and ya he might lose a game or two but he would dominate zerg without question. You shouldnt take everything so literally. The point is, your idea is retarded.
On February 09 2005 15:00 eG)HeavenS wrote: rofl..i havent been trying to teach anyone about no fucking italics...i really could give a shit where ur ignorance takes u. im guessing this means no 1;1?
way to use a double negative and sound like a dumb redneck --b
[QUOTE]On February 09 2005 21:27 EchoOfRain wrote: [QUOTE]On February 09 2005 16:53 Famouzze wrote: [QUOTE]On February 09 2005 13:55 FrozenArbiter wrote: [QUOTE]On February 09 2005 13:03 Famouzze wrote: personally i just hope it makes storm kill lurks in one hit again, pvz is totally imbalanced now. there's no way for toss to counter lurker/scourge. we need storm to kill lurks or comsat or something else.[/QUOTE] You suck. P's win on good maps. so u don't think tosses ever lost pvz until 1.08?[/QUOTE] First of all Reach is not toss in general, he has probably the most gosu storms of any toss player ever......and ya he might lose a game or two but he would dominate zerg without question. You shouldnt take everything so literally. The point is, your idea is retarded.[/QUOTE] oh
On February 09 2005 20:36 Ilintar wrote: About the hold lurkers thing. I don't see any real reason NOT to do it. The main skill factor right now resides not in holding the lurker (come on, ANYONE can group a lurker with an overlord and press H), but with timing the un-hold action. You STILL have to press Attack or Stop to make the lurker start dealing damage. Sure it's a bug, but in case you haven't noticed publicly accepted bugs have a tendency of making it into the mainstream, Quake and strafe-jumping being one such example. So, why not do it in SC?
As a sidenote, I really really don't understand users who feel a compelling urge to throw shit at someone just because they disagree with their opinion. Having emotional problems? Go take a hike or w/e, don't spill your frustration over the internet, it simply sucks.
On February 09 2005 16:01 EchoOfRain wrote: all we need is cheaper observatory and support bay upgrades and obs need slightly more life (like enough to survive one scourge, kinda lame that an obs costs the same as 2 scourge) Then PvZ will be balanced imo and it wont effect pvt hardly at all. This would make fast reaver with shuttle upgrade actually viable and you wont have to spend a fuck load to make your obs usefull.
If Observers had enough life to withstand a Scourge hit then they'd have like 40 shield and 75 life or something. If you buff them up that much you'd better make them 2 supply and give them a longer build time =]
actually they would just need life 50 life and like 30 sheild, they take half damage from scourge, they still do full to sheilds. Im not exactly sure how the calculation works but i think they would survive that. And 80 life is nothing if you consider that 2 scourge cost the same and terran can build turrets for 75 minerals...
The last time I played BW scourge did normal 110 damage. I mean why else is it that mutalisks have 10 health left after being hit by a scourge? it doesn't take 3 scourges to take out a mutalisk.
Observers would need 111 hitpoints which is too much.
Someone has mentioned that observatory could be removed, well I'm not too sure about that. Maybe. Where would the upgrades to observer go? Isn't the ebay pretty much full? Can all upgrades fit there? Plus it would mean that you have to build the ebay which is more expensive, and you can't research both shuttlespeed and observers at the same time. Or you could give sight upgrade for free, but then is it too good? Not sure about this one.
But the cutest idea is of course to give scout the ability to, uhm, scout? Give them the speed upgrade in citadel and detection for free. It's still expensive and it's not all that great a fighting unit. +1 armor might be needed so that not most other air units are better than a specifically designed air superiority unit :/. Don't touch ground attack, it should be bad!
We might see a lot cute builds with this detecting scout so I'm intrigued by the idea ^^. Lurker containment IS hard to beat if the zerg opponent os equally good as the toss.
(if there is a need of any balance changes) for toss I would suggest: (in order of importance) 1. goon al 2. scrab al 3. all DA's abilities -25 mana coast 4. scout with detection
On February 09 2005 18:26 baal wrote: shut up all, detection to scouts, thats it, im a genius
you were not a first person who come out with this.... M2 did having said that, would you make stargate + scouts (in most cases you'll need more than one) or robotic+observatory+obs?? I think the second option is cheaper. Therefore, you would use scout as a detection only when you went sairs, but latter on you will have to switch to obs anyway.
On February 09 2005 16:01 EchoOfRain wrote: all we need is cheaper observatory and support bay upgrades and obs need slightly more life (like enough to survive one scourge, kinda lame that an obs costs the same as 2 scourge) Then PvZ will be balanced imo and it wont effect pvt hardly at all. This would make fast reaver with shuttle upgrade actually viable and you wont have to spend a fuck load to make your obs usefull.
If Observers had enough life to withstand a Scourge hit then they'd have like 40 shield and 75 life or something. If you buff them up that much you'd better make them 2 supply and give them a longer build time =]
actually they would just need life 50 life and like 30 sheild, they take half damage from scourge, they still do full to sheilds. Im not exactly sure how the calculation works but i think they would survive that. And 80 life is nothing if you consider that 2 scourge cost the same and terran can build turrets for 75 minerals...
The last time I played BW scourge did normal 110 damage. I mean why else is it that mutalisks have 10 health left after being hit by a scourge? it doesn't take 3 scourges to take out a mutalisk.
Observers would need 111 hitpoints which is too much.
Someone has mentioned that observatory could be removed, well I'm not too sure about that. Maybe. Where would the upgrades to observer go? Isn't the ebay pretty much full? Can all upgrades fit there? Plus it would mean that you have to build the ebay which is more expensive, and you can't research both shuttlespeed and observers at the same time. Or you could give sight upgrade for free, but then is it too good? Not sure about this one.
But the cutest idea is of course to give scout the ability to, uhm, scout? Give them the speed upgrade in citadel and detection for free. It's still expensive and it's not all that great a fighting unit. +1 armor might be needed so that not most other air units are better than a specifically designed air superiority unit :/. Don't touch ground attack, it should be bad!
We might see a lot cute builds with this detecting scout so I'm intrigued by the idea ^^. Lurker containment IS hard to beat if the zerg opponent os equally good as the toss.
On February 09 2005 22:09 Waxangel wrote: it was cool when zergs had to actually work when they used lurkers, unburrowing and running away when stormed
yeah, if they removed the lurker hold feature/bug but add an increase in burrowing and unburrowing speed would see to it. Then the one session lurker death psistorm can be allowed.
On February 09 2005 13:03 Famouzze wrote: personally i just hope it makes storm kill lurks in one hit again, pvz is totally imbalanced now. there's no way for toss to counter lurker/scourge. we need storm to kill lurks or comsat or something else.
You suck. P's win on good maps. Give reach 1 hit KO storm and he'll never ever lose a PvZ again.
so u don't think tosses ever lost pvz until 1.08?
1) It's not like that was the only change 2) The game is a lot different now.
On February 10 2005 04:59 FrozenArbiter wrote: 2) The game is a lot different now.
Yeah, it's a lot different in that Zerg has a significant statistical advantage over Protoss in high-level play, something that doesn't happen in other matchups. Some sort of Protoss tweak against Z is needed (though 128 storms may or may not be too much).
On February 09 2005 20:04 Gryffindor_us wrote: Hold lurker without having to use an overlord would be insane. Because, the incentive to use hold lurker is lessened by having to use an ovie and then I would have to look out for lurker ambushes EVERYWHERE. You would have to be so careful and your scans would run out too quickly. Terrans would never leave their base, at least not early game.
eh? hold with ovie? doesn't always work. clicking lurker to attack a building in cloud works 100% and takes less time to execute which is pretty close to pressing one command. btw, both methods cause terrans never be sure where an allied lurk can be; estimate chances, know youropponent, someone slow can't spread lurkers around the map, allying and waiting for prey.
hold lurkers isnt a big deal, the same thing can be done unreliably with pressing sssssss if terran has good detection, they will own hold lurkers if terran is stupid enough not to get enough detection, then they deserve to get owned by hold lurkers
I think the lurkers shouldnt be allowed to hold...it would be just like allied mines. However there is a downside tot his. Scv's probes and ...well drones dont have a hold button, but i oftn use marine + scv hold when i know im being 9 pooled and so on. So my question is this, if they remove the lurker + ovi hold, will they also remove the scv with rine hold and such? that would be shitty..having to hit ssssssssssss so ur scvs dont move when covering ramp.
well this thread turned into a zerg flame thread. every protoss user just wants changes to make toss better. anyone ever thought about that at high level like pros terran has advantag over toss too? why never talk about that. i mean its impossible to hold a good terran with ground units for ever. also good teran users have advatage over zerg cause of many opning builds, mass tank vessel... with good rine micro zerg is in disadvatae too. but zerg>toss so something must be changed but i dont think its the observer thing. maybe it should somehow not be so easy for zerg to expand the whole map.
-Fix tank exploding over freaking scv mining -Fix floating by the temps -queing up all the drones on a geyser then attacking... wait, thats too funny to fix, i want to see that in a pro game
I think they need to tweak EMP SW. I saw NaDa experimenting wiht it in few tvp, and it ain`t nice. EMP SW should only drain caster`s mana, nothing else. Especially not protoss shield.
"EMP SW should only drain caster`s mana, nothing else. Especially not protoss shield. "
You MUST be joking. It's a spell that costs 150, is much more difficult to play than plague and gives a similar effect (since shields get 100% dmg. from all types of weaponry anyway + they regenerate, so the caster energy discharge about equalizes it). You want to turn it from a moderately useful spell to a totally useless spell?
And, just for curiosity's sake, since you speak of "especially not protoss shield". What else exactly does EMP drain aside from caster mana and protoss shields? Short of the extremely useful ability to shut down that overpowered protoss spell - hallucination - of course.
On February 10 2005 09:18 Ilintar wrote: "EMP SW should only drain caster`s mana, nothing else. Especially not protoss shield. "
You MUST be joking. It's a spell that costs 150, is much more difficult to play than plague and gives a similar effect (since shields get 100% dmg. from all types of weaponry anyway + they regenerate, so the caster energy discharge about equalizes it). You want to turn it from a moderately useful spell to a totally useless spell?
And, just for curiosity's sake, since you speak of "especially not protoss shield". What else exactly does EMP drain aside from caster mana and protoss shields? Short of the extremely useful ability to shut down that overpowered protoss spell - hallucination - of course.
On February 10 2005 12:17 Szejhulud wrote: I'd like to see PPvZT where both P get fucked up by plague&emp combo. Anyone has something like that? can be totally newb, i don't care
preferrably have 12 carriers getting owned by 2 valks in 5 seconds
I just want them to improve ht AI I mean I can't do a arch before those stupid ht dance ( and sometimes don't even get to merge ) . would appreciate to change that besides goons AI and scrab...
I mean... how many games did p loss because ht didn't merge in first try and mutas killed one of them?
Lurkers don't need a hold position, I'm gonna reiterate what everyone said before me. Units still attack in hold position so why not lurkers? It's on the same plane as allied mines which can't be used in one on one game mode so if lurkers get hold position, so should mines. The AI is the only thing in the game that really needs to be fixed imo. The game is ever evolving because players and new strategies, changes to it just adds different imbalances.
On February 10 2005 06:44 baelrog wrote: well this thread turned into a zerg flame thread. every protoss user just wants changes to make toss better. anyone ever thought about that at high level like pros terran has advantag over toss too? why never talk about that.
toss players are known for being terran killers, that's how most of them get famous
On February 10 2005 06:44 baelrog wrote: well this thread turned into a zerg flame thread. every protoss user just wants changes to make toss better. anyone ever thought about that at high level like pros terran has advantag over toss too? why never talk about that.
toss players are known for being terran killers, that's how most of them get famous
I hear that lol WUt about the observer on Missle turrent bug ;_; that needs to be fixed, pressing sssssssssss until it shoots it is a pain, I just wanna own some toss, not have to have 'invincible' observers. btw has anyseen if the overlord can do that thing with being right on top of the turrent or is it too big? Lurkers dont need a hold position because last time i checked, when i did hold position on my hydra it still shot at an scv coming up the ramp, and so did that oterh 6, and the few lings vs a bunchg of mariens and bats and such. They need like a hold attack button, or something now that'd be cool, alot of programming but cool none the less Maybe make it be more of an economy drainer, to go mass bcs or carriers because even as a BC TvT//TvP noob(and noob at jus about everythin else), I just think its over used because the people i play can only win vs me when they go carriers//bcs, whenever they try to micro with storm or dt harras//drop harras and other stuff...it just falls apart. I mean I myself aint gosu enough to clone ghosts and lockdown 10+bcs in i dunno 2-3 seconds?
lol i should see if this long post will count as extra credit in my lit class.....
On February 10 2005 15:31 ArkngelofSol wrote: Lurkers dont need a hold position because last time i checked, when i did hold position on my hydra it still shot at an scv coming up the ramp, and so did that oterh 6, and the few lings vs a bunchg of mariens and bats and such. They need like a hold attack button, or something now that'd be cool, alot of programming but cool none the less
You stop hydras/marines/range troops from shooting by right clicking aka force move them around. You can't do the right clicking with lurkers.
On February 09 2005 14:24 bbz wrote: lurker doing double damage when they dies, that's annoying
oh yeah, I heard about that, how did ppl find out? Is it checked out at slow-mo game speed?
lurker doing 40dmg at death is NOT a bug the same goes to diablo II classic, barbarian had a small chance of doing double damage
IT'S USUALLY THE ONLY HOPE FOR ZERG TO DEFEND VS MNM WITH LESS THAN 4LURKERS... of course if the terran is good
1. Fix lurker to have hold button feature without use of overlords.(or remove the bug itself.)
WHY REMOVE? are you too slow to use it now? it will only weaken zerg zvt, maybe you are a terran player? or a newb zerg? fix the scv hold on ramp too, and the zealot+probes vs early pool then
3. Prevent change of allegiance midgame to prevent allied mines.
and destroy all the (friendly) ffa games? because every 10000th game someone makes allied mines?
4. Dragoon AI has problem too?(saw this at bnet forums)
if you havent seen this you are obviusly a newb, so please dont talk about fixing things you dont understand
6. Reaver/Scarab AI?(Seems fine for me.)
I think it was weakened at the time they added the pop out pentaly. Good players somehow manage to drop well, so it's ok.
8. Observer over turret
they could fix that, but well it doesnt matter that much
They could allow stacking in ums again, because there is a new stack hack for melee and stacking in ums is impossible... the hackers still can hack and a shitload of ums maps got screwed
On February 09 2005 13:02 HungZerg wrote: i agree with the scourge part. toss unit ai always gets all the attention but scourge is just as bad if not worse
So scourges do something worse that stopping and doing nothing until you hit [Stop]?
On February 09 2005 13:02 HungZerg wrote: i agree with the scourge part. toss unit ai always gets all the attention but scourge is just as bad if not worse
So scourges do something worse that stopping and doing nothing until you hit [Stop]?
they stop and do nothing until they feel like attacking the unit you sent them to. i think thats just as bad
[QUOTE]On February 11 2005 03:50 8882 wrote: [QUOTE]On February 09 2005 14:26 Aerox wrote:
[quote]4. Dragoon AI has problem too?(saw this at bnet forums)[/quote]
if you havent seen this you are obviusly a newb, so please dont talk about fixing things you dont understand
[quote]6. Reaver/Scarab AI?(Seems fine for me.)[/quote]
I think it was weakened at the time they added the pop out pentaly. Good players somehow manage to drop well, so it's ok.
[/QUOTE]
I'm not really sure what you meant by the dragoon one... but goons seriously need some AI change... They're too dumb at the moment and needs to be fixed so that they no longer stop when hit by a siege tank anymore. About the scarab one...... scarabs also kinda need better AI... even reavers and carriers need some change because they tend to keep going when you tell them to attack a specific object. For example, using reaver to attack a sunken coloney... reaver will sometimes crawl into the range of the sunken coloney even if it has scarabs and carriers will try to send out interceptors while within the range of a missile turret when it can send them out from outside the turret's range... small things like that need change.. prob not balance... but the AI's at least..
Make the scarabs fire like a seige tank! the scarab is hesistant or it still thinks if It will fire or not. It has a Split personality.
also I want it to fire bellow the plateu when it is above the plateu or make it like a seige tank.
Make a Guard key also. like a bunch dragoon will defend an observer ( it will be a great use in spider Mines clearing operation). Remove that follow key, it should be called Die with A Unit key ( because it wil just follow and die if attack and doesn't use its common sense to defend itself.
Some guy used the hold lurker bug against my terran today. It was a really elaborate setup, he spent most of the game trying to lure my army into his trap with ling harrassement. Too bad I went meant T.T
I like the hold bug, it works with scvs + rine blocking ramp
lurker doing 40dmg at death is NOT a bug the same goes to diablo II classic, barbarian had a small chance of doing double damage
IT'S USUALLY THE ONLY HOPE FOR ZERG TO DEFEND VS MNM WITH LESS THAN 4LURKERS... of course if the terran is good
WTF? Stop talking bullshits! It's serious bug. It has been written about it many lines (check tl.net or wgt).
IMO 1-10% of the kills of mnm are caused by this bug by removing it, zerg will be seriously weakened
(I admit that I just guessed the statistics)
[QUOTE]On February 11 2005 15:33 cacat wrote: [QUOTE]On February 11 2005 03:50 8882 wrote: [QUOTE]On February 09 2005 14:26 Aerox wrote:
[quote]4. Dragoon AI has problem too?(saw this at bnet forums)[/quote]
if you havent seen this you are obviusly a newb, so please dont talk about fixing things you dont understand
[quote]6. Reaver/Scarab AI?(Seems fine for me.)[/quote]
I think it was weakened at the time they added the pop out pentaly. Good players somehow manage to drop well, so it's ok.
[/QUOTE]
I'm not really sure what you meant by the dragoon one...[/quote]
I meant that he hasnt seen much of the game, if he hasnt seen a stuck dragoon, so I doubt if he knows anything about the game.
[quote]but goons seriously need some AI change... They're too dumb at the moment and needs to be fixed so that they no longer stop when hit by a siege tank anymore.[/quote]
Im not sure if this has something with ai, but they definitely sholdnt stop.
[quote]About the scarab one...... scarabs also kinda need better AI...[/quote]
I believe that pvt is balanced. This change could make it imbalanced.
[quote]even reavers and carriers need some change because they tend to keep going when you tell them to attack a specific object.For example, using reaver to attack a sunken coloney... reaver will sometimes crawl into the range of the sunken coloney[/quote]
I know what you mean, sometimes reavers just dont follow the orders and maybe this should be fixed. But I wouldnt touch the scarab AI.
there is only one problem which makes me not sure if this should be fixed - marines are killed by lurkers too, because sometimes marines follow the lurkers. mutas also like to come back to the enemy base because you dont shift queue a hold position - you just need to control them all the time, maybe the protoss players should do it too? of course I know how irritating it is, to lose a reaver because it doesnt follow the orders
[quote]even if it has scarabs and carriers will try to send out interceptors while within the range of a missile turret when it can send them out from outside the turret's range...[/quote]
well, marines dont go back when attacked by lurkers. I would only consider repairing the reaver coming towards sunken thing, I wouldnt touch the carriers. The same happens to guardians ocassionaly (they move towards turrets despite they are odered to attack move from distance) and noonce cares
[quote]small things like that need change.. prob not balance... but the AI's at least..[/QUOTE]
such small things can affect the game with upgraded scarab ai, reavers would become much stronger it would be like partial removal of the penalty
here is a bug we can all agree on When watching a replay online and the host leaves, the controls should be given to somoene else ingame, instead of having to leave, look for w/e the hell teh host named this replay and play it. Yeah thats a gosu bug
On February 09 2005 14:24 bbz wrote: lurker doing double damage when they dies, that's annoying
oh yeah, I heard about that, how did ppl find out? Is it checked out at slow-mo game speed?
lurker doing 40dmg at death is NOT a bug the same goes to diablo II classic, barbarian had a small chance of doing double damage
uh. the double damage thingy in d2 is because of the weapon mastery... how is lurker doing 40 dam at death not a bug? wtf? other units do not randomly deal double damage, it definitely is not meant for lurkers this way either
On February 10 2005 06:44 baelrog wrote: well this thread turned into a zerg flame thread. every protoss user just wants changes to make toss better. anyone ever thought about that at high level like pros terran has advantag over toss too?
The difference is that PvT is very close to balanced statistically, while the imbalance in PvZ is much larger.
EPT
