COMMENTS thread on TL.Net Map Design Submissions
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uhjoo
Korea (South)1740 Posts
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EvilTeletubby
Baltimore, USA22225 Posts
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karelen
Sweden2407 Posts
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Mora
Canada5235 Posts
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Orome
Switzerland11984 Posts
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JazZ[AutO]
United States558 Posts
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EnDeR_
Spain2354 Posts
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Hautamaki
Canada1311 Posts
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Zer[OX]o
United States42 Posts
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KorvspaD
Sweden468 Posts
and theres always another gas expo that u can build on.. | ||
Orome
Switzerland11984 Posts
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boongee
United States967 Posts
Original design though. It looks like a PvZ game could be fun. | ||
indecision
Germany818 Posts
On November 28 2004 09:42 KorvspaD wrote: purity is not that bad.. if he can cliff one of ur expos it means u can cliff one of his.. and theres always another gas expo that u can build on.. yeah, i don't think that this should be an issue either. | ||
dork_of_death!!
United States374 Posts
however, i hate the ice setting because it BLINDS ME WHEN I DRAW RANDOM PROTOSS *aah i can't see* | ||
Tiger-
Mexico190 Posts
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GTR
51163 Posts
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GroT
Belgium3003 Posts
I'm kinda sad that the islands have gas, it would have been nicer without it i think t.t;; | ||
bio.dante
Czech Republic290 Posts
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GroT
Belgium3003 Posts
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EnDeR_
Spain2354 Posts
On November 28 2004 12:53 GroT wrote: i also think the main should have had 700 minerals per patch instead of 1500 ! interesting suggestion: have less mineral per patch. That way expanding would be even more important and we would also see much shorter actionpacked games, somebody try this out! . [edit] this would also make it easier for zerg, since they usually expand more... | ||
RedAreStupid.
Sweden476 Posts
//thx | ||
boongee
United States967 Posts
And Orion is looking a lot better than it did in the WGT map contest, I have to say. | ||
Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
On November 28 2004 15:25 boongee wrote: And Orion is looking a lot better than it did in the WGT map contest, I have to say. Thankyou. ^^ | ||
EvilTeletubby
Baltimore, USA22225 Posts
On November 28 2004 15:25 boongee wrote: Red, I'll do it. boongee74@gmail.com And Orion is looking a lot better than it did in the WGT map contest, I have to say. Don't encourage him -_-;; Kidding~ I like the map Hinkle, I will make Copy play me on it. ^_^ | ||
Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
On November 28 2004 16:52 EvilTeletubby wrote: Kidding~ I like the map Hinkle, I will make Copy play me on it. ^_^ I am considering naming my next map Fort Hinkle~ Copy hates orion because I raped him on it. --; | ||
CriM
Canada5 Posts
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
The 9 position on Cold Forever gets screwed because of how much farther the nat is away from the main ramp. Power of Consequences gives zerg players access to ONE gas expo on the mainland aside from their rear nat. And good luck trying to stop a Terran player who's on his way to raze it with his main army, especially when your nat is a min only. Orion 4: in top vs top or bottom vs bottom, good luck trying to dislodge a terran player from one of those gas expo cliffs while they tank your nat from behind the wall. Glacier Passion: looks nice, but 2 chokes is a no-no . | ||
Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
On November 28 2004 18:28 Bill307 wrote: Orion 4: in top vs top or bottom vs bottom, good luck trying to dislodge a terran player from one of those gas expo cliffs while they tank your nat from behind the wall. Would changing those areas to low platform help? | ||
iNCuBuS_
United States905 Posts
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S(O)ME(O)NE
Canada473 Posts
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Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
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Biscuittt
United States40 Posts
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FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
its a nice looking map but 'fallen matrix' doesnt make sense and the gas-only (i know, crazy) expansion is useless for T and P | ||
Hautamaki
Canada1311 Posts
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epidion
United States316 Posts
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ToKoreaWithLove
Norway10161 Posts
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Elvin_vn
Vietnam2038 Posts
On November 28 2004 23:08 ToKoreaWithLove wrote: Damn fallen matrix looks really cool, but somehow I get the feeling that the creator never playtested it. The problem of that map is you have too little space for buildings. And the expand is too far T_T | ||
uhjoo
Korea (South)1740 Posts
On November 28 2004 22:56 epidion wrote: are we allowed to edit maps once they've been submitted? Yes, we will allow you to edit maps, but only until the voting starts in 2 weeks or so... so early submitters are getting an advantage by putting up their maps because they can get feedback. I hope, however, that this won't be taken too far, with people changing their maps every time they see a comment... that would make judging the maps too difficult, so I advise discretion. | ||
ParasitJonte
Sweden1768 Posts
I must say that so far Forever Cold is the best map imo =O P.S Does it seem like Terran almost ALWAYS get some sort of advantage on new maps? It is like, even if it wasn't intended Terran can always find a way to be gay since they are =D! | ||
Hautamaki
Canada1311 Posts
it's easy to screw terran over tho: just remove all high ground. Look at Guillotine. A huge wide open center is sometimes all thats needed though. Check out Silent Vortex. | ||
Immer[Forever]
Sweden278 Posts
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indecision
Germany818 Posts
On November 28 2004 14:05 Mindcrime wrote: That account I play on most frequently is Mind-crime on USEast. I'm a zerg player. http://hstrial-zhinkle.homestead.com/_4_ORI~4.SCM.jpg And that's why you set some perfect fast expansions for zerg in there didn't you ? | ||
Resonate
United Kingdom8402 Posts
NoName 1.03 anyone? | ||
dork_of_death!!
United States374 Posts
I think a supply depot would be able to block the little gap between the plateau and the edge of the map. If a tank and two scvs sneak back there in early game build an ebay to spot and a depot to block off the entrance, its pretty much GG for tvp matchups | ||
Peatza
Sweden393 Posts
I'll see if i can update the map. But I'd want more people to put suggestions. The mineral only expansions are really close yes, but that way no game is the same. PvsT close positions and the game turns into a rush game. Far away positions turns into cheese and, very strategic games. From the red circles, Tanks are able to hit the main building but not the peons.. The yellow cliff circles is also about tanks, they can hit the gas, but not the expansion itself. The Blue scuares shows all places where Terran can use Barracks etc, to cut off that path. Keep in mind, Protoss can easily do the same thing, stoping vult rushes etc. - Zergs advantage is the less space other races has, it doesn't bother them that much. Also there are gas only expansions that could give them extra gas. Terran is able to use Tanks and buildings in many strategic ways. Protoss Templar Drops is very effectiv against expansions, I've shown with green circles the places where templars can do great damage against enemy economy. Also the map design gives Protoss many ways to cheese. | ||
Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
On November 29 2004 04:41 indecision wrote: And that's why you set some perfect fast expansions for zerg in there didn't you ? That and a little something called balance. | ||
iNCuBuS_
United States905 Posts
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boongee
United States967 Posts
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mdb
Bulgaria4058 Posts
gl all | ||
rednob
Korea (South)210 Posts
Status Update: Okay, my file is uploaded now. Thank you for help. | ||
Peatza
Sweden393 Posts
Players must start thinking outside the box... If you doesn't have room for you building in main, build it somewhere else. You do it all the time when you're cheesing... | ||
RedAreStupid.
Sweden476 Posts
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Kenny
United States678 Posts
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S(O)ME(O)NE
Canada473 Posts
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Kenny
United States678 Posts
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Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
[img]http://www.geocities.com/astrok2003/TwistofDeath.JPG[/img Put a ] on the end of that and then put that in your post, that will show your map. | ||
Kenny
United States678 Posts
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Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
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Kenny
United States678 Posts
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Peatza
Sweden393 Posts
I'm going to do an update on my map Fallen Matrix v1.2. And post a jpeg of the new version here along with a picture of the original version. That way everyone can post their opinion, if the map has gotten better or worse. I Hope that's all right with everyone. As I see it, people are most concerned about the size of the main base. It's too small... When you say "gas-only expansion" is it the 12, and 6 places you're talking about or the vespene gas near the bases. Also the fact that the main exists is along the sides of the map, is that a big issue?? If so I'm going to make the path wider and hope that'll help. - | ||
S(O)ME(O)NE
Canada473 Posts
On November 29 2004 16:46 Q.PYRO.Q wrote: Well, I went to try to upload the scm and it said "bad file type" or something like that, says it not correct format. Use a program like winzip to compress the file into the zip format, it should let you upload the file then. | ||
epidion
United States316 Posts
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Kenny
United States678 Posts
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epidion
United States316 Posts
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Kenny
United States678 Posts
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
On November 29 2004 10:18 Peatza wrote: Having less space to move and build on was little my aim on Fallen Matrix. Building all your buildings in main base in practical impossible for Terran and Protoss. *looks at the map* Okay, lemme explain some of the BASICS of map making to you: a) Giving terran and protoss players very little room to build in their mains is a great way to piss people off. NO ONE sits down to play BW thinking to themselves "Today, I will find new and creative ways to spread my buildings all over the map, so that no 4 buildings are in the same place!" or "I sure wish I had to waste my time trying to figure out where the hell to build my new gateways and supply depots!" b) Making the ENTIRE MAP full of narrow choke points is a great way to make zerg auto-lose and terran auto-win. | ||
boongee
United States967 Posts
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LUEigi
Canada148 Posts
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useLess
United States4781 Posts
Power of Consequences could use some terrain decoration; its... plain. Middle is iffy, in terms of resource placement, and are the ramps supposed to do that? As for Space Debris, IMO either the expos on the side or the ones in the middle should have its gas removed. That 'S' looks nice. Fallen Matrix looks like its gonna be a pain just to move around. Good and bad, I suppose. Hyper Circle could use some changes in the middle. Specifically some terrain decor and mineral placements. Im a bit bewildered about Big We Play. No, horrified. The picture speaks better than I can. | ||
PanoRaMa
United States5068 Posts
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InFiNitY[pG]
Germany3463 Posts
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ToKoreaWithLove
Norway10161 Posts
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Hautamaki
Canada1311 Posts
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Orome
Switzerland11984 Posts
What I'm wondering is... I reall, really like shooting star, infinity's posted it here before, I think, but the gas nat also seems a bit hard for z and since it's a 2 player map... Has anyone playtested it? I'd like to know if it's good for tvz because otherwise I love it. | ||
InFiNitY[pG]
Germany3463 Posts
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rednob
Korea (South)210 Posts
On November 29 2004 19:56 useless wrote: Im a bit bewildered about Big We Play. No, horrified. The picture speaks better than I can. Oh, come on. It is a beautiful art pro map. You should try to play it some time. | ||
Eti307
Canada3442 Posts
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Taguchi
Greece1575 Posts
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SoMuchBetter
Australia10606 Posts
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Eti307
Canada3442 Posts
On November 29 2004 17:52 Bill307 wrote: *looks at the map* Okay, lemme explain some of the BASICS of map making to you: a) Giving terran and protoss players very little room to build in their mains is a great way to piss people off. NO ONE sits down to play BW thinking to themselves "Today, I will find new and creative ways to spread my buildings all over the map, so that no 4 buildings are in the same place!" or "I sure wish I had to waste my time trying to figure out where the hell to build my new gateways and supply depots!" b) Making the ENTIRE MAP full of narrow choke points is a great way to make zerg auto-lose and terran auto-win. I agree zerg will be raped by terran if they must pass those narrow chokes in lines, and I don't see where you want to build... there is barely enough room for exp if you build outside your base... with main narrow like that, you will end up blocking your way to your min patch with your buildings | ||
Peatza
Sweden393 Posts
Ok I've updated my map to v1.3 DL: http://www.angelfire.com/bug2/mumame/4_Fallen_Matrixv13.scx Here's a Jpeg: | ||
Taguchi
Greece1575 Posts
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Peatza
Sweden393 Posts
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boongee
United States967 Posts
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S(O)ME(O)NE
Canada473 Posts
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Kenny
United States678 Posts
My map: Twist of Death | ||
epidion
United States316 Posts
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Phantom
Canada2151 Posts
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boongee
United States967 Posts
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Empyrean
16927 Posts
Edit, talking about "straight and narrow" | ||
oo0o0
Sweden47 Posts
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JazZ[AutO]
United States558 Posts
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Phantom
Canada2151 Posts
On November 30 2004 18:05 JazZ[AutO] wrote: ...and maybe Purity because it looks like a good island map, but can't be favorite because it is Island ;x. ...T_T...well I guess I sorta see where you're coming from, not a lot of good island maps out there compared to the other maps. | ||
S(O)ME(O)NE
Canada473 Posts
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Troku
France103 Posts
Glacier passion- really quite open in some areas, expansions block ramps, Power Of Consequences- wide ramps? a lot of gas goin around, unbalanced base designs space debris- HUGE OPEN AREAS, every expo has gas almost...could play either way purity- I told you man, can't have expos against opponents base, in 2v2 this would be uneven if you had it against allies and allie had his against enemies etc. ex: teal expo against purp base. center expo is usless, blow it up from your own base =\...as well as enemy expos. >_< Orion 4- mineral at islands... I don't think terran will be taking those that quickly...long long open spaces Fallen Matrix v1.2- soooo many expansions, so big, calm down, take a deep breath buddy and get a natural expo ffs then delete some of the utterly unneccessary ones. (4)The Lightning of Davao- this one is bad dude...huge unequal chokes and base structures, GIANT islands, just...ugh (2)Hyper circle - huge islands, inside map is no man's land for terran, open areas pose anti-terran threats (2)Psycho Metal Temple- this was in wgtour map contest, rejected for a reason. its such an utterly terran map man...once you hold choke on raised land you have control of about...2 extra expansions no problem, thin areas which are anti-zerg, raised land allows you to hold bridges very easily, and well...hold half the map...=\ its too...ugh big we play- bad map, sorry...straight minerals?, expansion placement, is...WOW, not a blizz employee could put this one back together -= work on it a bit, spend more than 15 minutes (2)Anno Domini- why so far to get gas? unequal chokes, distances are off balance...favors Z quite a bit (mineral only nat, far gas expo, wide areas) Twist of Death- take center expos and you win, bleh...no nat? you expect to shar that with an enemy? Emergence- I worked on this one, its good, its balance, screw anyone who thinks otherwise because they gotta be as dumb as people who judged my map in wgt contest. (2)Shooting Star- could be better, but still good, love it Nobodys Faith- no comment yet (2)StraightAndNarrow- stop, look at it, no natural expo, bad expansions, bad route to opposite base...if you want some proffessional help with it, I could help you out and fix it up a lot. | ||
Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
On November 30 2004 18:55 Troku wrote: Orion 4- mineral at islands... I don't think terran will be taking those that quickly.. Mission accomplished. | ||
Phantom
Canada2151 Posts
On November 30 2004 18:55 Troku wrote: purity- I told you man, can't have expos against opponents base, in 2v2 this would be uneven if you had it against allies and allie had his against enemies etc. ex: teal expo against purp base. center expo is usless, blow it up from your own base =\...as well as enemy expos. >_< If ur allie is at 9 and ur at 6 you both still get the same gas expo without being next to an enemies because there are 2 gas expoes. I will think up something new for the center instead of just scratching it out, who knows maybe it'll have such long 2v2 matches that they will fight for center anyways ^^... | ||
Kenny
United States678 Posts
On November 30 2004 18:55 Troku wrote: Twist of Death- take center expos and you win, bleh...no nat? you expect to shar that with an enemy? Fixed both those problems, please tell me about anything else you may see wrong on Twist of Death. Thanks. | ||
rednob
Korea (South)210 Posts
On November 30 2004 18:55 Troku wrote: big we play- bad map, sorry...straight minerals?, expansion placement, is...WOW, not a blizz employee could put this one back together -= work on it a bit, spend more than 15 minutes Sorry, I try to spend the same time you do editing other people's map. On November 30 2004 07:04 SoMuchBetter wrote: The least you could have done was put some effort into the mineral patches so that your map doesn't look like a two second job I spend my time making good play for pro not fake looks for American McBigBoob taste. | ||
Hautamaki
Canada1311 Posts
I'd comment on them a lot more, but half the maps don't load for me, half the dl's don't work, and it's all going really really slow. So it's a huge pain in the ass for me to try to put much effort into critiquing. I'll wait another week, and hopefully all those kinds of issues will be sorted out. | ||
useLess
United States4781 Posts
Emergence: I kinda like how the map LOOKS, mind the gaps of space thats going to waste at the top and bottom. Ramps seem a bit close, though. Shooting Star: Wow. I like this one. A LOT. I would consider this to be in my top choices. Nobodys Faith: I like how the middle portion is laid out. The top and bottom parts are kinda ugly. | ||
ParasitJonte
Sweden1768 Posts
Big we play seems.... not so good. And I don't like how you claim "pros" have given it two thumbs up etc... childish? | ||
bio.dante
Czech Republic290 Posts
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Hautamaki
Canada1311 Posts
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rednob
Korea (South)210 Posts
I have found some problems with the current version of "Big we play". First, I believe the gasses are Siege Tank-able from below the door on 2 of the bases. Second, the distances are very fun. Third, this is such a damn fine map I just want to get it knocked up. | ||
ParasitJonte
Sweden1768 Posts
On December 01 2004 05:46 rednob wrote: ParasitJonte it would also be childish of me to respond to your post by pointing out that you are not a pro like all of the pros who support the pro map "Big we play" who laugh at your Swedish women. I have found some problems with the current version of "Big we play". First, I believe the gasses are Siege Tank-able from below the door on 2 of the bases. Second, the distances are very fun. Third, this is such a damn fine map I just want to get it knocked up. Was that some sort of racial diss? Can you not face critisism without blurting out something stupid and just continue to make a fool out of yourself. Hautamaki defended you but I hope he won't do it again, cause you do not deserve it. Good luck making a living out of creating maps, you are a genius. | ||
rednob
Korea (South)210 Posts
On December 01 2004 05:50 ParasitJonte wrote: Was that some sort of racial diss? Can you not face critisism without blurting out something stupid and just continue to make a fool out of yourself. Hautamaki defended you but I hope he won't do it again, cause you do not deserve it. Good luck making a living out of creating maps, you are a genius. I am sorry. I did not mean to point out your inferior Swedish heritage. Please scratch that. As for facing criticism, I have faced the criticism of a thousand virgin pro Broodwar players and come up with this most brilliant Starcraft Campaign Map. I hope you keep your future jealousy to yourself and I will pray that in the next life you are borne of German blood. I hope this was not too off-topic but I would like to praise Hautamaki for keeping me in his love and prayers. Word to Your Mother, the red nob | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28282 Posts
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SoMuchBetter
Australia10606 Posts
youre my favourite poster, rednob | ||
ParasitJonte
Sweden1768 Posts
Anyways, sure would be fun meeting you IRL so you could see my inferior heritage. This is me right here: http://www.wgtour.com/upload/photo/152516.jpg Can I have a pick of you? I'd beat you kid, and you know it ;D! But you are right, and you will win this competition, I am voting for you at least, cause you made me smile -_-. Word up =) | ||
KorvspaD
Sweden468 Posts
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Mora
Canada5235 Posts
On December 01 2004 06:32 ParasitJonte wrote: hah.... guess I was owned ~~ I don't feel like getting banned so I won't answer that -.-;; Anyways, sure would be fun meeting you IRL so you could see my inferior heritage. This is me right here: http://www.wgtour.com/upload/photo/152516.jpg Can I have a pick of you? I'd beat you kid, and you know it ;D! But you are right, and you will win this competition, I am voting for you at least, cause you made me smile -_-. Word up =) i dont know if ur pic managed to accomplish anything other than turn me on~ I have a thing for Scandenavians, how old are you? | ||
rednob
Korea (South)210 Posts
On December 01 2004 06:32 ParasitJonte wrote: hah.... guess I was owned ~~ I don't feel like getting banned so I won't answer that -.-;; Anyways, sure would be fun meeting you IRL so you could see my inferior heritage. This is me right here: http://www.wgtour.com/upload/photo/152516.jpg Can I have a pick of you? I'd beat you kid, and you know it ;D! But you are right, and you will win this competition, I am voting for you at least, cause you made me smile -_-. Word up =) What a coincidence. That's a pick of me as well. Cheers, mate. :-) | ||
ParasitJonte
Sweden1768 Posts
Well, I don't see any reason to continue flaming each other. Tho, many have been banned for less than what you have said, might wanna edit your posts about me "hopefully being borne as a german" and "inferior heritage". Nobody likes a racist. Edit: I am 17 | ||
oo0o0
Sweden47 Posts
On November 30 2004 17:13 This-is-not-a-smurf wrote: I just don't like how there are cliffs overlooking each expansion -.- Not enough resources, a fast expo will get raped, you must hate Zerg, don't you -.-? Edit, talking about "straight and narrow" Well, you can't really go for a fast drop vs zerg since its so asy for them to just run into your base with lings right from the start, so far out of all games I've seen played on the map theres not been a single time where a drop on the cliff has semed just too good or too easy to do. A previous version had some stuff blocking variuous locations and made pushes too strong but now zerg has a lot of opportunity to flank on the ground and the easy access to the other players base early on balances out the easy drop access as it is very easy to scout drops. And really the only good place to cliff is to cliff the natural from the "island" cliff exp and anyone who know how the map looks will know to look out for that. And really, its not much easier to drop than it is on LT and zerg can always get muta to counter drops. If you still think its imba pls show me a rep or explain further and I will consider revising the map. | ||
oo0o0
Sweden47 Posts
On November 30 2004 18:55 Troku wrote: (2)StraightAndNarrow- stop, look at it, no natural expo, bad expansions, bad route to opposite base...if you want some proffessional help with it, I could help you out and fix it up a lot. Give me your tips but I really don't agree with with the critisicm that you have so far come up with. There IS a natural expo, its a bit further away than say on LT but theres no choke between your main and the natural so you can get units there fast. The route to the enemy base is very straight and narrow and there is only one way to go on land. At the same time the bases are pretty close, closer than LT but zerg can still pull off a fast mineral only expo and the open areas in of the rout to the enemy base where the expos are aloow for great flankings. The overall layout of the map and the placement of the other expos is really made to emulate the S and N from C&C and they do work, I suggest playing the map a couple of times and get a more accurate feel for it before bashing. | ||
Peatza
Sweden393 Posts
My map have fallen into manys disgust, and people have been very straight foward. On November 30 2004 18:47 S(O)ME(O)NE wrote: Everyone who is asking for opinions on your maps be happy you aint getting any, Usually it means the maps well done and people dont have alot ot complain about. Although when someone says they like your map it makes you proud... but yea usually no comments means there aint really much to complain about. Many have commented on my map so I've been working to get it right, I won't give up. Fallen Matrix v1.4 DL: http://www.angelfire.com/bug2/mumame/4_Fallen_Matrix_v14.scx | ||
S(O)ME(O)NE
Canada473 Posts
On December 01 2004 07:44 Teroru wrote: i dont know if ur pic managed to accomplish anything other than turn me on~ I have a thing for Scandenavians, how old are you? Common pal you know better than that. Hes a minor! | ||
boongee
United States967 Posts
There are 3 choke points to the main base. -_- Do you even realize how that affects the game? | ||
boongee
United States967 Posts
On November 30 2004 18:55 Troku wrote: space debris- HUGE OPEN AREAS, every expo has gas almost...could play either way I'm wondering what you mean by it "could play either way"... And yes there are huge open areas because my Zerglings need the extra room to play. | ||
Peatza
Sweden393 Posts
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Bizkit
Sweden1137 Posts
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LUEigi
Canada148 Posts
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Peatza
Sweden393 Posts
And, On December 01 2004 12:45 boongee wrote: Fallen matrix is beginning to look good. But there's one problem... There are 3 choke points to the main base. -_- Do you even realize how that affects the game? Wtf, am I the only one who has no problem with multiple entries to a base? I'm Protoss and I think that's just fun. hrmmm Bill307 will propobly also point that out and trash talk my map again. On November 27 2004 07:58 Nal_Testie wrote: Most of the maps mentioned so far are balanced. A players inability to find the correct solutions to the maps does not make it imbalanced. T>P Namja 60% / 40% on close postions. 55/45 on far away positions. P=T Nostalgia, Yeah, I said it. P=T on Guillotine, Yeah, I said it twice. T>P most definitely on jungle story. Although there are many neat ways to make it so that T 55 / P 45. But if T plays amazingly perfect, it's hard indeed for a toss to win. My P=T on Gorky. There, i've said that too. P = T on gorky, stop whining you wussy tosses. I've played terrans on that map that are far better than the ones you play, and have come out with quite rare losses. It's balanced. I'm sick of hearing whining about this map. P does have an advantage vs T on korhal. But it is not one a player cannot overcome with some ingenuity. If you are still losing to proxy gates with cannons, you do not deserve to have an opinion on what maps are balanced. As only fools do that build and will lose if they do. Yeah, terrans stop whining about this map. The first people to complain about imbalance on a map that comes out right away are the ones who lack the talent to find proper solutions. Many solutions only require subtle shifts in how you play, but most refuse to do this. You cannot always fall back on the excuse of imbalance. Thus, I will say out of those spoken so far Jungle Story is the most unbalanced thus far for TvP. Namja as 2nd. (I have not enough experience in PvT Martian cross to give true insight or an opinion on that). I use Testies post to my defense... t_T Anyway, I belive all races will have equal difficulties with 3 choke/entries to base. The Shift in gameplay that Testie talks about is what I tried to create with map layout, But, I've changed it alot to make it easier to play, I understand that now. | ||
oo0o0
Sweden47 Posts
Even if you don't think my map should win this competition I would still like for ppl to play it and give comments. =) | ||
boongee
United States967 Posts
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Peatza
Sweden393 Posts
On December 01 2004 13:53 boongee wrote: Multiple choke points in your main base forces Terran to go marine/medic and forces Zerg to go with a one-base strategy. Protoss can play pretty much normally. Protoss must use much more cannons to stop lings, exp is delayed extremly much, zerg must tech faster and a Terran who m&m is stupid, won't work anyway. Play normally and use, vultures more insted of massing Tanks all the time. On November 27 2004 07:58 Nal_Testie wrote: The first people to complain about imbalance on a map that comes out right away are the ones who lack the talent to find proper solutions. Many solutions only require subtle shifts in how you play, but most refuse to do this. You cannot always fall back on the excuse of imbalance. | ||
rednob
Korea (South)210 Posts
On December 01 2004 09:22 ParasitJonte wrote: looool, u could have insulted me for being ugly or w-ever (tho I am quite cute I must agree) instead u wrote that haha =D! Well, I don't see any reason to continue flaming each other. Tho, many have been banned for less than what you have said, might wanna edit your posts about me "hopefully being borne as a german" and "inferior heritage". Nobody likes a racist. Edit: I am 17 I'm not a racist I don't think. Swedes aren't their own race are they? I thought they were just like a Blonde colony of ugliness and speech impediments. Also, it's not racist to concede German racial superiority. I have examined the definitions of racism carefully and am ready to defend this conclusion. :-) Edit: If you're Swedish or a Forum Administrator then please don't read this post, it was a typo. Anyways, back on topic: I am willing to consider running suggestions by my battery of pro gamers if someone makes one concerning my near-perfect map. | ||
Bizkit
Sweden1137 Posts
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boongee
United States967 Posts
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Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
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oo0o0
Sweden47 Posts
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rednob
Korea (South)210 Posts
(2)Power%20Of%20Consequences - This may ultimately play out more like Sauron than it appears, however the gasless nat and "Terranized" 2nd nat make me uncertain. Shouldn't that favor Terran against Protoss? And Protoss probably needs to be able to defend their ramp and gas natural at the same time against Zerg. This is a very interesting map that deserves to be perfect (if it is not already). 4purity - I cannot comment on the balance but obviously we should try to compare this to maps like Forbidden Zone, Valhalla, and Paradoxxx. This map can be as awesome as any hybrid if it is not already. What effect will the large land areas have on matchups? Does the resource curve help or hurt Zerg? I can't answer these. 4_Fallen_Matrix_v14 - The main is totally wide open, dude. Lings, lurkers, goons, and DTs make this Blizzard-era style obsolete, or am I missing something? This still would be fun to play in certain matchups because it is so creative. _4_Interregnum - The size of the mains, the setup of the naturals, the center and the islands all seem near-ideal. Play on this is potentially near-perfect if the differences between top and bottom mains can be worked out and the "Left vs Right" situations are not too boring. Terran might find this boring to play against Protoss on. (2)Hyper circle - This can be good enough with some work (if it is not great already). You may want to have gas at two of those outer mineral only expansions and make sure the naturals are as tight as Reqiem's. (2)Psycho%20Metal%20Temple - This is simply great for certain matchups but looks way tougher on balance than both Korhal and Bifrost. I am really curious about the balance on this for Terran and Protoss. I would not want to be Protoss against Zerg on this. big_we_play - Near-perfection at its finest. (2)Anno Domini - I believe the mains can be Siege Tanked from below. There is not much expansions for a Zerg or Protoss to take against a Terran, or a Zerg against a Protoss. (4)Emergence%20v1.1%5BM%5D - This definitely deserves attention. I do not trust my own judgement on this map because it has so many good things about it, but I suspect it might be possible to improve the balance on this map. (2)Shooting Star - This is obviously a great map. I wish I was qualified to ensure its success with my feedback. Nobodys Faith - I really like the feel of this map. I think Terran can lock down too many minerals on this map and it is too hard for other races to take enough expansions from the rest of the map. Vanguard%201.21 - For Protoss against Zerg, I would prefer having a gas natural and sorting out the balance with Mineral Patch count. You clearly are going for Nostalgia's balance, but have improved it by having no bridges. The center is a good size but the entrances to it are very tight. Not all of the naturals are equally takable for Zerg against Terran or Terran against Protoss. This layout is nicely done and has lots of potential. "Didn't have time to review" (2)Glacier%20Passion1.3 (2)Space%20Debris%20v1.5 _4_Orion_V5 The_Lightning_of_Davao Twist of Death Couldn't view (4)Frozen%20Friction Made by a Swede (2)StraightAndNarrow.Obs <-- oo0o0 is a Swede. | ||
Troku
France103 Posts
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Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
Orion 4- mineral at islands... I don't think terran will be taking those that quickly.. No reason to change anything. When I first added the islands, they had gas, so that's the reason I initially put the minerals there. Then I realized, that terran could have 3 gasses with ease, so I took off gas and added 3 minerals. I don't see the point in taking away the 8 min cluster. I will agree that my map has a lot of wide open spaces, but, then again, so does nostalgia. | ||
stenole
Norway867 Posts
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Peatza
Sweden393 Posts
On December 01 2004 15:10 rednob wrote: big_we_play - Near-perfection at its finest. I admit rednob that you got knowledge, also the possibility that you're a good map maker, still... I can't see how Big we play could be that fun to play, I mean how many Pro League Maps is like that? Which are these Progamers you keep talking about? The map is balanced, pretty much totally symmetric but does that make the map perfect? Lost Temple's imbalances have been discussed numerous times, but are without doubt the most played map ever to exist. A maps main objective is not to be perfect, but to be entertaining. That way people will play it again and again, the more people play it... the more replays will come out of it. People looks at replays, gets familiarised with the map and its strategies. And starts playing themselves... This won't happen if the map just looks like a square cube, boring. | ||
stenole
Norway867 Posts
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Peatza
Sweden393 Posts
EDIT: Also i would like to ask... Are there a/why aren't there a Map Making forum? | ||
SoMuchBetter
Australia10606 Posts
My map, Vanguard, is clearly the best. Perfection in its most perfect form. All the progamers play on Vanguard. Just the other day Slayers_`BoxeR` said to me "Whoa your map rules!". | ||
boongee
United States967 Posts
A map making forum would be awesome, too. ^_^ | ||
Peatza
Sweden393 Posts
On December 01 2004 16:37 SoMuchBetter wrote: Since no one is giving my map much feedback, I guess I'm going to have to try a rednob approach. My map, Vanguard, is clearly the best. Perfection in its most perfect form. All the progamers play on Vanguard. Just the other day Slayers_`BoxeR` said to me "Whoa your map rules!". My Windows explorer tells me it isn't safe to download a file from that website you've posted as link to your map SoMuchBetter. I have such a system who stops me from entering website that could be harmfull to my computer. http://www.xx00xx.net what's that site? Use AngelFire, and i will love to post a comment about your map. I could enter if i really want to, but i choose... not to. OFF-TOPIC Since this map contest started I have made 2 new maps completly from scratch. I like to post Jpeg, but that'd be wrong. Map making forum would rock! | ||
SoMuchBetter
Australia10606 Posts
since you dont want to enter it, i uploaded the picture to my profile and used that in the submissions thread. The other link couldnt be viewed anyway. http://www.teamliquid.net/userfiles/2825.jpg | ||
Colbi
United States535 Posts
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Peatza
Sweden393 Posts
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baal
10486 Posts
If you want to keep the ramps i think you should add some obstacles in the middle so T wont have so much trouble. | ||
oo0o0
Sweden47 Posts
On December 01 2004 15:10 rednob wrote: Made by a Swede (2)StraightAndNarrow.Obs <-- oo0o0 is a Swede. Yes, it is true, but I don't see how that has anything to do about mapmaking. Also pls note that there is a (2)StraighAndNarrow.Melee version as well. | ||
S(O)ME(O)NE
Canada473 Posts
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Peatza
Sweden393 Posts
Current version is v1.5 When this contest started, my map was version 1.2. It've taken 3 major updated to get it where it is now. DL: http://www.angelfire.com/bug2/mumame/4_Fallen_Matrix_v15.scx Fallen Matrix v1.5 | ||
SoMuchBetter
Australia10606 Posts
if you want to compare to the old version, you can see it at http://www.xx00xx.net/Vanguard 1.21.jpg | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28282 Posts
other than that, swedes, take no offense to rednob. :D | ||
Hautamaki
Canada1311 Posts
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Hautamaki
Canada1311 Posts
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ParasitJonte
Sweden1768 Posts
Still kinda funny how you don't ban him, what has he ever done that makes him so "safe", sumbitted a gosu map? He should be banned in a split second for being a total ass, just like so many before him. And to rednob, I consider you to being of lower value than me, hence I will not degrade myself to speaking to you anymore, have a nice life~ | ||
Orome
Switzerland11984 Posts
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rednob
Korea (South)210 Posts
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KrisElmqvist
Sweden1962 Posts
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exalted
United States3612 Posts
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Troku
France103 Posts
On December 01 2004 15:10 rednob wrote: big_we_play - Near-perfection at its finest. lol rednob, your map is terrible, sorry. Here's a list of the reasions why: 1. It's ugly as sin. Learn how to place minerals at least. They're all in a straight line and its the same damn mineral type over and over again. 2. Ugly gargantuan square bases and pathways. 3. Every gas is unequal with the next 4. Its "symmetry" (I can tell you tried) plays really shitty. You had a big doodad outside base at 10 and 4...that means, good for terran push, good for terran defense, bad for everything else, but on the other ones, no big deal, simply open for everyone. 5. Bases at top and bottom are too close to each other ( 10 + 2, 4 + 8). See, in 1v1, this MIGHT not make a difference (except that you'll have to travel all the way down the map to get expansions, which plays awful and is clearly a stupid concept, and if its 2v2, what are the chances you'll both be on that side? Or at least think of all the match ups and how retarded it will be to play with 3 side-by-side expansions straigh down the middle sides. 6. It will not be possible to defend your base at those expansions as well, too many ruins, maybe 1 or two bunkers or cannons. 7. It's one long gay travel from one end to the other in the case of a 1v1 where one player can get and hold the main base beside him before you make it down there. 8. Map's design is flawed completely Saying its perfect is a slap to the face of any map maker and saying that its better than my map is outrageous. While I "only edit maps" you shouldn't be allowed to make maps, let alone have staredit taking up needed space on your computer. The end, a comment from somebody who knows what their talking about and has the balls to confront your ignorant attitude. | ||
Peatza
Sweden393 Posts
On December 02 2004 11:25 rednob wrote: I don't mean any insult, but seriously why are Swedes allowed on this site? rednob You KNOW that what you saying is insulting near racism. If you do not understand that, then you're stupid. You can't come to a community like tl.net and start look down on people. Instead, plz come to Sweden and tell everyone directly how "superior" you are. It won't take long before you're just a dead Korean that no one cares about. Or, everyone will just laugh at you, ignoring you and your small soul. What the hell are you doing here really? Is it to piss people of? You obviously think you're better then all Swedish but you clearly aren't. You're Map sucks! And I know everyone here would prefer to play on a different map then yours. First I thought you were just annoying, for a short moment I even thought you were a good person (good map maker), but for every post you've written you have shown to me what an complete air head you are. | ||
Troku
France103 Posts
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Bizkit
Sweden1137 Posts
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Troku
France103 Posts
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bio.dante
Czech Republic290 Posts
no need to re just improve a bit. thx and peace | ||
S(O)ME(O)NE
Canada473 Posts
On December 02 2004 12:32 Troku wrote: I didn't intentionally flame, it was neccessary to tell him, especially after he bashes everyone's map except for his which deserves MAJOR edits. Maybe I can edit it for you, but after I'm done it wouldn't look anything like it, the bases won't be the same, and the entire map will be different (and good, omg...is that possible?) He didint bash everyones map he gave his opioions on them and hes allowed to do that. Just the same way your allowed to give your opinions on his map. | ||
uhjoo
Korea (South)1740 Posts
i have a pointer for how to keep things civil here on TL.net: 1) try to be MORE polite and MORE discriminating with your words online than in RL. 2) when someone insults you, try extending an olive branch as your first response. 3) think to yourself, "being mature is a good thing." please do not let this thread degenerate into flat diet coke b/c some of us are really enjoying reading the actual substantive comments on the maps. thanks brothers and sisters, and GL HF!!! | ||
S(O)ME(O)NE
Canada473 Posts
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28282 Posts
I don't understand it. | ||
Daysleeper
Sweden282 Posts
On December 02 2004 14:11 Liquid`Drone wrote: why on earth are you guys (swedes) offended I don't understand it. Must have something to do with your "inferior" norwegian heriage btw I like the look of fallen matrix after the improvments | ||
Kenny
United States678 Posts
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28282 Posts
*suicides* but lets not use this thread for this. | ||
Peatza
Sweden393 Posts
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Peatza
Sweden393 Posts
2 words... Great Map! It's a 2 Player with a little Geama Gowon twist that feels like Enter the Dragon ^^. Very Nice design, the island could be a little better looking, maybe they do not have to be rasied jungle?... and the expansions hmm. Do you know the map Emperor of Emperor? The map is the same size as yours, the major diffrens is that the bases are 12 and 6. What troubles me on your map is the short little walk it is betwen your bases. On Emperor of Emperor it would been even smaller but they've solved this by putting something in the way. Units has to walk around it all to attack eachother. Most games will be heavy rush games, zerg going 9 pool and Toss 9/10 if you do not put something that halts the rush, so that. Toss are able to do diffrent tech stratts, zerg expand and Terran.... well Terran should just die for all I care. The second Gas expansion is positioned a little strange. Maybe the island has to be remade, so that second gas expansion could get a better place. Cool map. | ||
Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
<3 lazy | ||
S(O)ME(O)NE
Canada473 Posts
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Euphoria
Canada32 Posts
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rednob
Korea (South)210 Posts
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rednob
Korea (South)210 Posts
On December 02 2004 12:10 Troku wrote: lol rednob, your map is terrible, sorry. Here's a list of the reasions why: 1. It's ugly as sin. Learn how to place minerals at least. They're all in a straight line and its the same damn mineral type over and over again. I used the prettiest mineral. Anything less is just wrong. I also used a unique formation. Uniqueness is pretty. 2. Ugly gargantuan square bases and pathways. I insist that they are pretty. 3. Every gas is unequal with the next I can't say I understand this. They are all perfect and identical as far as I know. 4. Its "symmetry" (I can tell you tried) plays really shitty. You had a big doodad outside base at 10 and 4...that means, good for terran push, good for terran defense, bad for everything else, but on the other ones, no big deal, simply open for everyone. The map is perfectly symmetrical in every way despite your claims. I can't really understand what you're trying to get at. 5. Bases at top and bottom are too close to each other ( 10 + 2, 4 + 8). See, in 1v1, this MIGHT not make a difference (except that you'll have to travel all the way down the map to get expansions, which plays awful and is clearly a stupid concept, and if its 2v2, what are the chances you'll both be on that side? Or at least think of all the match ups and how retarded it will be to play with 3 side-by-side expansions straigh down the middle sides. Actually they play identical to all other possibilities, as any good map should. I would like to see some of your maps that are more symmetrical than mine, which has been tested by thousands of pros. 6. It will not be possible to defend your base at those expansions as well, too many ruins, maybe 1 or two bunkers or cannons. You're wrong here. 7. It's one long gay travel from one end to the other in the case of a 1v1 where one player can get and hold the main base beside him before you make it down there. The distances were selected by pros to provide optimum competitive gameplay as opposed to optimum Troku-level play. 8. Map's design is flawed completely Saying its perfect is a slap to the face of any map maker and saying that its better than my map is outrageous. While I "only edit maps" you shouldn't be allowed to make maps, let alone have staredit taking up needed space on your computer. Could you be more specific? The end, a comment from somebody who knows what their talking about and has the balls to confront your ignorant attitude. I wish someone would. Nice post. | ||
Euphoria
Canada32 Posts
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rednob
Korea (South)210 Posts
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boongee
United States967 Posts
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Peatza
Sweden393 Posts
It's a nice solution, but I don't now if it makes anything better. Everything around the little mineral only inside the 4 small bridges feels very narrow and hard to move around. I feel like the island expansion doesn't add anything to the map. If you really want island expansions, you could use Namja iyagi expansions (you know whit the little mineral and all) where the space is. ...Less ramps, more bridges.. ^^ http://www.angelfire.com/bug2/mumame/_4_Emergence.jpg I don't know if you are able to see what i mean but... Tired... T_T And again, I have never seen any map like rednobs being used in any StarLeague, or any big tourney, ladder etc. The Pros your talking about rednob, maybe they're gosu money map pros? EDIT: I've done a small update on my Map Fallen Matrix, Minerals and cliffs have been remade along with other small things. | ||
Euphoria
Canada32 Posts
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Euphoria
Canada32 Posts
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Peatza
Sweden393 Posts
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epidion
United States316 Posts
Also, where could I find that map, Emperor of Emperor? | ||
LazySCV
United States2942 Posts
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Abahgus
United States323 Posts
oh and emergence looks very awesome. | ||
Euphoria
Canada32 Posts
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KrisElmqvist
Sweden1962 Posts
oh yeah, power of consequenses, those wide ramps are _beautiful_ tank drop can easily reach gas on top positions on Emergence, but not bottom due to gas placement. since the whole map is symetrical besides that, it feels a little unfair.. | ||
Euphoria
Canada32 Posts
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Euphoria
Canada32 Posts
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28282 Posts
I'd like to play that map sometime. | ||
Euphoria
Canada32 Posts
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Troku
France103 Posts
On December 02 2004 17:44 rednob wrote: I used the prettiest mineral. Anything less is just wrong. I also used a unique formation. Uniqueness is pretty. I insist that they are pretty. I can't say I understand this. They are all perfect and identical as far as I know. The map is perfectly symmetrical in every way despite your claims. I can't really understand what you're trying to get at. Actually they play identical to all other possibilities, as any good map should. I would like to see some of your maps that are more symmetrical than mine, which has been tested by [b]thousands of pros. You're wrong here. The distances were selected by pros to provide optimum competitive gameplay as opposed to optimum Troku-level play. Could you be more specific? I wish someone would. Nice post. You = stupid It's boring to look at, boring to play, anyone who likes it should have a lobotamy. Gas mines different when it is on the right side of nexus/hatch/cc or on the bottom, but you're a good map maker, you should know that (oh wait, you aren't, nvm...eek who needs the lobotomy now hehe) The bases are SQUARES and they are HUGE, boring AND ugly The map isn't symmetrical, look at the doodad near entrance to base at 10 and 5, there's one of those medic looking things cutting in. It's symmetrical on a horizontal plain through center, not vertical (good work, not) Show me those "pros" so I can show them how much easier it is to rush from 5 to 7 instead of 5 to 10...lol, you gotta be kidding me Get rid of all the ruins, G_G zerg kid, zerg will run the map down while terrans can't build any defense around expansions or attack other expansions. (you can't build on ruins, that means turrets and bunkers, you shouldve known that) The distances are awful, and you haven't seen me play so you have no say. You CAN'T SAY THAT 10 to 5 IS THE SAME DISTANCE, YOU CAN'T. 10 - 5 doesnt = 10 - 2, 10 - 7 2 - 5 doesnt = 2 - 10, 2 - 7 5 - 7 doesn = 5 - 10, 5 - 2 7 - anything doesnt = anything lol...you are either blind, or immature and stubborn...I don't know which would be worse. The end, a comment from somebody who knows what their talking about and has the balls to confront your ignorant attitude. I wish someone would. Nice post.[/QUOTE] Someone did, don't be afraid to admit it, I know more than most about making maps because I talk to bill and mora almost everyday and they helped me with my map and told me imbalances. You, are just stubborn. Saying its perfect is a slap to the face of any map maker and saying that its better than my map is outrageous. While I "only edit maps" you shouldn't be allowed to make maps, let alone have staredit taking up needed space on your computer. Do I have to dumb it down for you? Are you THAT bad at reading? ok here we go: You, rednob, said, " It is a beautiful art pro map. You should try to play it some time." When, no you're stubborn, can't take other people's advice. Just take me seriously, if you can. It is ugly and boring. You said, "Sorry, I try to spend the same time you do editing other people's map." Well, thats why I said "While I "only edit maps" you shouldn't be allowed to make maps, let alone have staredit taking up needed space on your computer." Nuff said there. You said, "I spend my time making good play for pro not fake looks for American McBigBoob taste." Well, the map is bad, and it'll never win this contest, get over it. No pro will play it for serious competitive games. It looks like a map for 7v1 comp stomps with tons of minerals, all you gotta do is make it bigger and change those expos at mid into bases, lol. You also said it's perfect and made fun of my map (lol), so I said "Saying its perfect is a slap to the face of any map maker and saying that its better than my map is outrageous". Now, did you understand it that time young grasshopper? Take my advice, fix your map and seek proffessional help.(no doctor, it's too far gone, we'll have to pull the plug... -ER) | ||
Troku
France103 Posts
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Euphoria
Canada32 Posts
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Troku
France103 Posts
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ParasitJonte
Sweden1768 Posts
And to drone, what do you mean "I can't see how you can be offended". Okay so if I was to write down some crazy shit about koreans based on rednobs behaviour, you wouldn't be able to understand how they could be offended? K, Koreans are self-centered, egotistic maniacs who think they stand above others because they have people who actually make this game their life, such morons. They are also closly related to the people of North Korea whom we all know are really stupid and brainwashed, haha, I pray for them to be born somewhere else in their next life. Now, I do not agree to any of what is said above, but even if you can't see how anyone could be offended by this, I bet others can. | ||
ParasitJonte
Sweden1768 Posts
(read rednoobs post if wondering wtf I am saying) | ||
KrisElmqvist
Sweden1962 Posts
On December 03 2004 05:30 Euphoria wrote: Would you rather have the need for 4 gas miners instead of 3? If I move the gas to make it symetrical, the geyser is then at the bottom of the starting position, and thus, wille require 4 workers to mine efficiently. Sure, you can get tanked, but by the time that happens, on any other map with natural cliffs, you'd have to have a Shuttle or two, or Mutalisks to combat the annoyance of Tank drops, anyway. I'm not trying to justify it, I'm just saying there isn't much that can be done. I could move the Namja-like islands closer to the mainland, but then they could be Tanked from the mainland or the Tanks dropped on them could do some serious base damage. i actually had no idea bout 4 scvs for efficient mining :p but when i think about it, it seems to me like 50$ extra scv is a better bargain than possibly a -100$ refinery (50$ assimilator).. it also looks like all main bases can be hit by tanks from those expansions, all positions. i dont know if that was the point, but i usually try to make the main base free from such cheesy moves because it mostly creates irritation. isnt it a good thing if they could be hit from mainland too? such a small island will otherwise be impossible to take with normal troops.. mabye if they were in low ground? then you automaticlt would be a little farter away from base but still out of reach from mainland? You could always put doodads on the edges if tanks were to fit in there instead... | ||
Euphoria
Canada32 Posts
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Peatza
Sweden393 Posts
Euphoria I Understand that you removed minerals on the natural expansions so that they won't be in the way. But I do not understand why you must put 10 minerals in main because of that. There will be alot of peons eating up all psi, and when base minerals is alla mined out, there will be 30+ peons that needs an expansion, if they don't got any.. Zerg doesn't have this problem. Let the map have less minerals. Players will need to have bigger control on their economy, think before they build etc. | ||
rednob
Korea (South)210 Posts
I see you are unleashing the full force of your intellect. I wish I could say I expected more. Thanks for the wonderful responses. | ||
boongee
United States967 Posts
You must be 8 years old or something. Everything you say is a lie and/or makes no sense. First of all, your map is terrible. I'd rather play some Fastest Possible Map Ever than your wanna-be money map. rednob, have created many thousand maps, played all race many years You've made thousands of maps? Uh. K. Played all the races for many years? How many years are we talking about exactly? Starcraft has only been out for about 7. And what "pros" have played your map? I'm serious. I really want to know. | ||
CriM
Canada5 Posts
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InFiNitY[pG]
Germany3463 Posts
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Euphoria
Canada32 Posts
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Euphoria
Canada32 Posts
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Mora
Canada5235 Posts
Any1 who gets offended by him is stupid. and his map is brilliant . | ||
SoMuchBetter
Australia10606 Posts
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Mora
Canada5235 Posts
btw, i *really* like attack - reload. Infact, i think u should submit that one instead of ur other one (though both are great). | ||
boongee
United States967 Posts
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Troku
France103 Posts
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Orome
Switzerland11984 Posts
On December 04 2004 06:42 boongee wrote: It seems like people have forgotten or stopped caring about this contest. o_O No, not really, there just haven't been any new maps recently and I think people know better than me what makes a map balanced in detail, so I'm not going to try and help people in-depth... | ||
Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
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bigMommA
1985 Posts
On December 03 2004 16:31 Euphoria wrote: Updated! (2)Attack - Reload v2.1 Updated! [ (2)Attack - Reload v2.1[M]large.jpg | (2)Attack - Reload v2.1[M].scm | (2)Attack - Reload v2.1[O].scm ] I had to make some changes as it was clearly favoring Terran (even more-so than a semi-islands map can). Hopefully this will rekindle Zerg and Protoss's efforts. Remember! This is not a submission to the TeamLiquid.net Map Contest. It is just the spawn of my early morning (2:00am) boredom. It is meant for player enjoyment, not contest dominance. Enjoy! woah.. Euphoria, Attack-Reload looks awesome. Your Emergence map looks great as well. Teroru is right, your maps are of high quality. that really sux that the rule only permits 1 map per user. Euphoria, you should ask those in charge or have connection to the Blizzard Mystery Map Tourney and be one of the map designers because the set of 3 maps (coulee, hawkeye, atral) that are just released today is just a set of a few more to come. Dude, be a part of that tourney any way you can and have your creative/wonderful maps exposed. You are a most likely winner so far among other competitors, and wouldn't be surprise that Rose.of.Dream would be impressed by your map(s) either. Maybe even a possible idea of using your maps in the Korean leagues. I also agree that you should replace Emergence with Attack-Reload for the TL map contest. Btw, whoever just submitted "On the Rocks" made a really nice looking map. | ||
Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
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bigMommA
1985 Posts
Alaska Dual Space In the Chaos The Toil Light House Dual Point Gambling Over Mountain Requiem Serapis Temple | ||
Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
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bigMommA
1985 Posts
i like Alaska though, highly unique. | ||
Empyrean
16927 Posts
And BigMomma, you can do the same thing with an SCV, just wait until it's at the other side. | ||
KrisElmqvist
Sweden1962 Posts
[B]If you can sit there are preach new age styles of play, then why don't you start playing them? I dont understand what you mean... If you refer to what i wrote in my map subbmission, i hardly recon that as new age way of gaming - not since LoTem is built on the same principles of none symetric design, and that map has been around for a while. Anyways, it your map. If someone is to critisize it, it should be you since you made it and knows way much more about it than anyone else. Im just trying to put a perspective on things... Btw, some more maps if anyone is interested. If you like them, i'll link them. (4)Vega 1.7 (4)Operation: Desert Storm v2 | ||
bigMommA
1985 Posts
On December 04 2004 08:52 This-is-not-a-smurf wrote: Dual Space looks suspiciously like Valley of Wind -_- And BigMomma, you can do the same thing with an SCV, just wait until it's at the other side. true.. that just leaves it unfavorable for toss | ||
KrisElmqvist
Sweden1962 Posts
true.. that just leaves it unfavorable for toss Make a pylon jump over the gas? it could work, atleast with a gateway or such.. although p still has to put some more effort into hopping its still possible | ||
iNCuBuS_
United States905 Posts
Oh well... Im just uninformed I suppose. | ||
S(O)ME(O)NE
Canada473 Posts
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Peatza
Sweden393 Posts
If they are about to accept non-korean map designers, they should make a english version. | ||
Peatza
Sweden393 Posts
EDIT: Vega roxx | ||
KrisElmqvist
Sweden1962 Posts
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Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
Dual Point Notice a similarity? | ||
Orome
Switzerland11984 Posts
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Peatza
Sweden393 Posts
I really hope it is S(o)m(e)o(n)e who's done Dual Point otherwise someone else has stolen his map before it got updated, hoping no one would notice. (I bet it's rednob ;P). But this is really terrible if someone is using his map to win a OSL map competition!! | ||
Orome
Switzerland11984 Posts
the only things that are changed are the terrain, the bridges that are removed in forever cold and and also some ramps that are removed in forever cold. | ||
uhjoo
Korea (South)1740 Posts
S(o)m(e)o(n)e please make a post explaining your position? Needless to say this is a point for not only disqualification and ban not to mention unbelievable embarrassment for whomever is the culprit | ||
wAt-74
United States137 Posts
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Euphoria
Canada32 Posts
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Peatza
Sweden393 Posts
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Euphoria
Canada32 Posts
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Euphoria
Canada32 Posts
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uhjoo
Korea (South)1740 Posts
On December 04 2004 16:19 Euphoria wrote: Furthermore, uhjoo, is it too late for me to replace Emergence with Attack - Reload? The public seems to think Attack - Reload is the more interesting of the two. My friends are in agreement. i'd be fine with this... i don't see any reason why you shouldn't be allowed to do this. | ||
Euphoria
Canada32 Posts
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rednob
Korea (South)210 Posts
The red nob | ||
Euphoria
Canada32 Posts
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Peatza
Sweden393 Posts
No serious player will ever want to play on your map rednob, unless someone make them do it. Making good maps that people will play is all about map design. You can have a extremly good idea to a map, but it's only your map design that makes the map playable. "Insanely gifted veteran map talents".... T_T the only one saying all that is you. You're just laiying to yourself because no one's agreeing with you. If you don't want to hear on what people say to you, then don't waste time writing in this forum. | ||
SoMuchBetter
Australia10606 Posts
On December 04 2004 23:38 Euphoria wrote: -You don't even know the UNBREAKABLE rule of thumb that dictates mains and naturals should total 16 mineral patches and 2 Vespene geysers. what? There are a lot of maps that don't fit your UNBREAKABLE rule of thumb. | ||
Euphoria
Canada32 Posts
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boongee
United States967 Posts
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rednob
Korea (South)210 Posts
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Euphoria
Canada32 Posts
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Bizkit
Sweden1137 Posts
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InFiNitY[pG]
Germany3463 Posts
On December 05 2004 02:29 Euphoria wrote: Nostalgia's natural is located in the middle of each wall. Nothing says the natural has to be right outside your base. The natural is the closest, full expansion. you're wrong there. the natural is always the closest expansion, no matter if it has a geysir or not | ||
KrisElmqvist
Sweden1962 Posts
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KorvspaD
Sweden468 Posts
On December 05 2004 03:47 Bizkit wrote: KorvspaD I like your map (OntheRocks)! thx.. but I'll need to tweak it a little.. theres some small glitches that has to be fixed, and I think I have to do something about the middle, don't know what tho.. new version in a couple of days.. | ||
Empyrean
16927 Posts
Edit coming with everyone's issues. I have an appointment right now that I'm already late for -_-! | ||
boongee
United States967 Posts
On December 05 2004 02:29 Euphoria wrote: Nostalgia's natural is located in the middle of each wall. Nothing says the natural has to be right outside your base. The natural is the closest, full expansion. Even if that were so, then Nostalgia would still be breaking this "UNBREAKABLE" rule. The mains have 9 minerals. | ||
Shiv
France447 Posts
Troku - big we play is not good looking. Right. It's obvious. Rednob - I really think you should remove that mineral-only expansion. If you do, the players will have to play dangerously in order to have more expansions. Thus increasing the importance of the decision-making on your map. In my opinion, the main problem with your map is that it's just a too macro-intensive directed kind of map. But as far as I'm concerned, I'd like to play on this particular map, among with (2)Anno Domini, Attack - Reload, Blood Thirsters. | ||
Orome
Switzerland11984 Posts
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Peatza
Sweden393 Posts
I think i like Titty Twister (strange name? :/) more, but the tiny exist makes a players who's been cornered in his base lose very easy. | ||
Euphoria
Canada32 Posts
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rednob
Korea (South)210 Posts
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SoMuchBetter
Australia10606 Posts
On December 05 2004 17:18 Euphoria wrote: Ask Bill. Ask any really famous and skilled map maker. The general rule of thumb is 16 Mineral patches and 2 Vespene geysers. Nostalgia is a rare exception to this rule. Look at Lost Temple, Gaema Gowon, Namja Iyagi... almost every map follows this rule. Perhaps it's a known rule, perhaps it's just something observed and copied. Lost Temple was really the first map to start this trend. Perhaps people just saw it working there and decided to flow with it. Trust me, it is a rule of thumb. Into the Darkness Tucson Luna Detonation F Bifrost Mercury Requiem Pelennor Incubus Xenosky Parallel Lines Guillotine Dahlia Gorky Korhal Martian Cross Enter the dragon U-boat Paradoxxx II JR memory Another Day | ||
Empyrean
16927 Posts
It's been puzzling me since I saw the map. Looks terrible | ||
S(O)ME(O)NE
Canada473 Posts
"Suggested Players: 2-4 As you and your opponent face off, victory or defeat, you will always remain forever cold. Map Modifed by: Some Origonal Concept by - Icon_of_Sin[Asia] Dual Point" If its a real problem dQ me but don't flame me for something i worked hard on. It said nothing against modifying a map in the news about the contest. "We are proud to announce the first ever TL.net Map Design Contest. Anyone is eligible to enter the contest should he or she desire. We will be accepting entries for exactly a period of 2 weeks, starting Sunday, Nov. 28th and ending Sunday, Dec. 12th. Please post all submissions HERE. Map requirements: - Should be tournament-friendly, designed for 1v1 and 2v2 play. (2, 3, 4 player maps) - Maps should contain significant design departures from LT (i.e. no LT clones please). - Maps should not have ever been submitted for a prior competition (i.e. WGT competition, etc.) - Before submission, please make sure minor details (i.e. not being able to put on a comsat, having to put 4 scv on gas with comsat, equal mining times for all starting points, etc.) are corrected. - There will be a limit of 1 map per designer Submission guidelines: 1) Your battle.net ID, other relevant self-introduction (i.e. map design experience, race played, etc.) 2) An image of the map, and a brief description (i.e. tileset, theme(s) in mind, special features). 3) A working link to download the map. Judging: After all candidate maps have been submitted, there will be a 1 week period of judging and review, from Sunday, Dec. 12th to Sunday, Dec. 19th, to be done by you, the tl.net community, via voting. At the end of the week, we will designate the top three vote-getters as the finalists. These three maps will then be playtested by tl.net staff in a TL.net staff tournament (format and date yet to be decided). At the end of the tournament, the staff will vote on the best (and winning) map of the three finalists. Grand Prize: The grand prize to be awarded to the winning map is a personal analysis of the map by the renowned Korean map designer, Rose.of.Dream. This is an opportunity to have your map reviewed by possibly the most famous professional map designer in the world. Rose.of.Dream includes among his portfolio the following maps used in professional competition: Namja Iiyagi (Tales of Men), Nostalgia, Dahlia of Jungle, Gorky Island, Martian Cross, Guillotine, Paradoxx, Korhal of Ceres, among others (please comment if you are aware of his other maps, also if any I listed are wrong). He also is active in modifying maps for more balanced play for competition. Summary: To quickly recap the four phases in this map competition: 1) Submission of entries. (date: 11/28 - 12/12) 2) Voting for top 3 finalists. (date: 12/12 - 12/19) 3) TL.net staff tourney on 3 finalist maps. (date: TBA) 4) Selection of grand winner and prize presentation. We look forward to your submissions. Best of luck and good designing!!! " So i apologize to anyone who may be offended and if its alright i would still like to have a map in the contest so ill let you guys pick one of the two jpg's i put. The second one is supposed to be creative but yea ill let you all decide on that second maps called inovativespace, which is in its VERY early stages the first one is arctic thaw. Im thinking of just sitting down and spending as much time as it takes to do up a new map sice i have to the 12th. Again im very sorry if ive offended anyone but i really didnt see anything in the rules against it. I hope you all can forgive me as i am indeed embarassed that i was to stupid to mention or ask before submiting. Anyways again sorry. Some~ | ||
Euphoria
Canada32 Posts
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Euphoria
Canada32 Posts
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Euphoria
Canada32 Posts
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LoseAlot.v13
China129 Posts
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rednob
Korea (South)210 Posts
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SoMuchBetter
Australia10606 Posts
Let's look at LT for example. We call the gas expansion the natural and the mineral only the 2nd natural. Mineral only multi naturals? And do you want to know why we call the gas expansion the first natural and the mineral only the 2nd natural? It may or not have something to do with the distance between the starting points and the expansions. You can be the judge. I think I get what you're trying to say though, every base should have an expansion that goes with it that has a gas node. I highly disagree with the set mineral amount, though. If you restrict yourself with your UNBREAKABLE rule, I don't think you'll ever make maps any better than what you're making now (not meant as an insult) | ||
SoMuchBetter
Australia10606 Posts
Yeah, good on you. Stealing someone elses maps then giving a bunch of excuses to justify your theft before offering us a couple of new maps. Thanks for trying, though | ||
Shiv
France447 Posts
On December 05 2004 21:56 Euphoria wrote: I'm glad I have coheREncy anD literacy oN my side. If I didn't my pOsts might resemBle somethIng written by rednob. I mean, if that were the caSe, I guess the logicAl couRsE of acTion would be to try And sound as RiDiculously idiotic as possiblE so people woulD jusT ignore me... isn't that right, rednob? Would I then be on the right trAck to success, Mr. VeTeran map maker and second coming of Christ? I repeat, stop making fun of yourself. This is the COMMENTS thread on TL.Net Map Design Submissions. The title is that big. Comment people. | ||
uhjoo
Korea (South)1740 Posts
On December 05 2004 18:24 S(O)ME(O)NE wrote: i diidnt think anyone would care i did use the theme from dual point but i didnt like how it played and i liked the idea of ice so i went and made an ice version of it. I spent a long time trying to get it as close as possible to it alot of hard work went into creating forever cold and there is still credit to the origonal other in it unless i loaded up my triggers for my ob maps. Hmm rose.of.dream modifys maps all the time. I mean credit is in the map ill take it right out of the descrption: you're retarded <--- and i'm choosing the least offensive comment of all the other comments that i'd like to say to your face IRL If its a real problem dQ me but don't flame me for something i worked hard on. It said nothing against modifying a map in the news about the contest.The second one is supposed to be creative but yea ill let you all decide on that second maps called inovativespace, which is in its VERY early stages the first one is arctic thaw. Im thinking of just sitting down and spending as much time as it takes to do up a new map sice i have to the 12th. Again im very sorry if ive offended anyone but i really didnt see anything in the rules against it. I hope you all can forgive me as i am indeed embarassed that i was to stupid to mention or ask before submiting. Anyways again sorry. Some~ you would've been much better off just owning up to the fact you got caught with your ass in the wind and just being like, sorry, i screwed up, i'll never do it again, i'm a total asswipe. but instead, you have the gall to post 2 new jpgs of maps and want to hear comments on which one to enter instead of your fucking plagiarized map? dude, have some basic goddamn sense of propriety. [many many other expletives deleted] | ||
XaI)CyRiC
United States4471 Posts
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Hautamaki
Canada1311 Posts
EDIT, I didn't see Cyrics post when I wrote this | ||
XaI)CyRiC
United States4471 Posts
Btw, both Euphoria and rednob need to improve the quality of their posts if they want to be able to continue posting on these forums. | ||
Hautamaki
Canada1311 Posts
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Hautamaki
Canada1311 Posts
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Peatza
Sweden393 Posts
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rednob
Korea (South)210 Posts
The problem with just "trying to make a fun map" is that people who play a certain race are not going to find it fun at all. If you just make a cool map, Protoss users are going to say "FUCk, I can't win on this map", or Zerg, or Terran, etc. Like Rose.of.Dream said in the interview, getting all of the matchups to work well on the same map is the challenge. As long as people give the right advice, then everything is fine. If a map worries you about a certain matchup, then just say how it worries you. No need to insult. For instance, here are the worries about my map: -Main minerals are too non-traditional. -Mains are slightly small, but might be able to fit enough as necessary. -Side matchups are too weird in some unpredictable and probably imbalanced way. Terran probably pushes into Protoss's main in this case. I'd like to see it though -- it reminds me of 12/3 except Protoss has a much better chance of hiding an expo and flanking. Everyone probably will scout this direction first and then play a macro game, except you really can't hold an expansion without units. Of course, this might be balanced by the abundance of APM-intensive hidden expos, another unusual feature of the map. -Every other kind of match has too far of a distance but this may be counteracted by the abundance of hiding places for proxies and the openness of the naturals -The asymetrical variety. It's easier to push some 2nd nats than others due to the asymetrical variety. This is unacceptable to everyone unless the map's name is Lost Temple. It might be too easy to push in many spots or it might not. -Upper right has 10 minerals when it should have had 9. -Top and bottom may be more different than intended. -There may be too many "Zerg-only" "3rd naturals" ... their gas can be reduced, mineral increased as needed. | ||
Legionnaire
Australia4514 Posts
Is it possible to build half a map and have a program recreate the other half in a mirror image? What program do you use to break the structures of the map, ie making bridges wider. Whats the program to change the map tileset to a different one? thx | ||
Peatza
Sweden393 Posts
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iNCuBuS_
United States905 Posts
That may make some maps a little cooler, who knows? Anybody got any comments on my map? Id like to know how to improve it, or is it good as is? Edit: forgot to tell you the name: Interregnum, its on the first submission page. Edit: Power of Consequences (ice map on first submission page) also has the double ramps. | ||
S(O)ME(O)NE
Canada473 Posts
On December 05 2004 23:14 uhjoo wrote: you're retarded <--- and i'm choosing the least offensive comment of all the other comments that i'd like to say to your face IRL you would've been much better off just owning up to the fact you got caught with your ass in the wind and just being like, sorry, i screwed up, i'll never do it again, i'm a total asswipe. but instead, you have the gall to post 2 new jpgs of maps and want to hear comments on which one to enter instead of your fucking plagiarized map? dude, have some basic goddamn sense of propriety. [many many other expletives deleted] I gave credit inside the comments on the map what i should have done is gave credit in the actual thread and even should have asked premision to use the map. or had the sense not to enter that map. W/e ban me if you feel its nessecary and if thats what you want me to say: IM SORRY I SCREWED UP AND IM A COMPLETE ASSWIPE ILL NEVER DO IT AGAIN. | ||
S(O)ME(O)NE
Canada473 Posts
On December 06 2004 01:22 Legionnaire wrote: A few questions Is it possible to build half a map and have a program recreate the other half in a mirror image? What program do you use to break the structures of the map, ie making bridges wider. Whats the program to change the map tileset to a different one? thx To create a map with a mirror image on the other side its best to be done with a ruler and the gridlines in the editor. U basicly gotta put in time to do this. Same with when you change the tileset you need to put time. | ||
Djin)Xuul(
Germany85 Posts
On December 06 2004 01:22 Legionnaire wrote: A few questions Is it possible to build half a map and have a program recreate the other half in a mirror image? What program do you use to break the structures of the map, ie making bridges wider. Whats the program to change the map tileset to a different one? thx 1.: there is no possibility for recreation of a mirror (i dunno one and i rly know a lot of mapeditor tools) 2.: all mapeditors with stacking can make bridges wider (there are a lot tools like starcraft xtra editor) 3.: there is a little tool with which u just need some seconds to convert the tileset... okay u need some minutes to check all doodads and stuff but thats rly easy (i cant tell u the name atm cause im not at my homecomputer)...try google | ||
Orome
Switzerland11984 Posts
On December 05 2004 14:26 Orome wrote: Xool, it's one map per contestant and your map isn't allowed, if it's been in another map contest... | ||
Euphoria
Canada32 Posts
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epidion
United States316 Posts
And regarding this rule of thumb, here's my take on it. -LT is THE best early map, and the most well known, correct? Yes, it is a pretty good map. But that doesn't mean that all maps have to be like it. If the only good maps were like LT, people would ONLY play LT. There would be no reason to play other maps. -Just an opinion, but think about this. Siege Tanks are the only (ground) unit that can hit a natural nexus from those cliffs, besides the Guardian (which is air.) To me, that says, "Terrans can own your natural here." Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that this is an unbeatable strategy. In fact, it is far from it. But, the ability to destroy 400 minerals (300 in the case of a Hatchery) for only one race seems a pretty large imbalance to me. -The raised jungle on the islands. Terran can own an island with a tank or two on the lower ground. Again, I'm not saying that it is hard to stop, but it just seems to be an imbalance for me. -In regards to imbalances: I think people have learned to adapt to them, or take them for granted. Terrans have learned to wall, and it is a great strategy and a great idea. Protoss has learned to go fast goons, since zeals won't help much against a wall. Protoss has learned to watch out for tanking on a cliff. Terran has learned that they can go fast factory with little or no marines because of their wall, and this is also a great idea. -I think that many people would regard someone's "natural" as the expansion closest to them. -How is Bifrost a Terran map? I'm a Protoss player, and all of the Terrans I have played have thought that Protoss owns on Bifrost. Just curious. ----Everybody is too used to playing on LT. Terrans often complain if maps don't have either a ramp or a very small choke, because of early game zeal rushes. Try playing TvP on Blood Bath. And before I get flamed for playing Blood Bath, try it. It's a fun map. My point is that T can easily survive past a zeal rush on BB. 8 rax, 9 supply, leaving room for a sheltered bunker with a few marines easily disables zeals. And that is on a tiny map! So that takes care of a zealot rush. It only slows down a Terran's ability to get a factory. Just because you can do it on LT, but not on other maps doesn't make the other one bad. We all either learn to deal with imbalances and adapt, or to take advantage of them. We're all too limited by what's been done before. If we never got past the first limitations and never had a new inspiration or idea, every single map would look like LT and we would not have micro. Last thing- Is it really necessary to pick apart each map's tiny flaws? In general situations such as placing gas at the closest expansion, instead of making it a mineral only, criticism and ideas are great. But I don't think we need to look at each flaw and difference unless it would make a drastic difference in gameplay. Keep in mind, all of this was just my opinions. | ||
Euphoria
Canada32 Posts
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S(O)ME(O)NE
Canada473 Posts
On December 06 2004 17:23 Euphoria wrote: Then don't be in it. No one's going to cry or kill themselves if you don't show up. Uhjoo has done a great job, and it wouldn't have been a great job unless he cracked down on cheaters like S(O)ME(O)NE. S(O)ME(O)NE had no right taking someone else's map, creating it on a different tileset, and then taking credit for it with only a minor mention in the Map Description. As I already mentioned, unless you play the map on single player (offline) or open it in StarEdit, you will never see the Map Description. Further, S(O)ME(O)NE's agreed that he made a mistake. You're defending a man who's admitted guilt. I imagine this might seem like a wise course of action where you come from, but it's complete idiocy in my eyes: Say you're a lawyer. You hear about this person who's plee was guilty in a case where all the evidence stacked against him. You run over there, immediately, and offer you legal council. How long do you think it would take before the entire courtroom burst into laughter at you? Number one you have no right to call me a cheater, you have the right to that opinion but keep it to yourself as i am keeping my opinion of you after reading that post to myself. The only mistake I made was not putting more credit. He can defend me if he likes he is entitled to his opinion as much as you are to your own of me. | ||
Euphoria
Canada32 Posts
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S(O)ME(O)NE
Canada473 Posts
On December 06 2004 17:41 Euphoria wrote: When you enter a map contest, the idea is to submit a creative idea. In the original thread pertaining to the contest, Uhjoo stated he didn't want any LT remakes. I imagine when he said this he felt it would go unsaid that this included other maps, as well. Apparently he assumed too much in your case. Furthermore, when proposed with the conflict of map plagerism, you shrugged it off with excuses and then tried to submit two other maps. I have every right in calling you a cheater because you are one. This is as bad of a crime as using a map hack in a game. Have you ever heard of the phrase: Don't assume, you make an ASS out of U and ME. And about that proposed with the conflict of map plagerism stuff, you do realize that its not plagerism if credit is given to the origonal author, Like i said the only mistake i made was not putting the credit in my post for the submission of the map. If i would have put it there would you guys have flammed me the same way? Or would you have said something like no S(O)ME(O)NE you can not use modified maps in the contest please submit another. Im not trying to cheat, I made a mistake and you all jump on it with out knowing the half of it. I dont see you calling rose of dream a cheater, have a look at dual space then valley of wind hmm. I already admited my mistake. No It may have seen like i shrugged it off because I did not realize it was such a big deal okay you don't want remakes in the contest ill put a new map instead since remakes are not allowed. Thats what i was thinking at the time but whatever I admited to mistakes even in that post you refer to. | ||
Manifesto7
Osaka27009 Posts
On December 05 2004 23:22 XaI)CyRiC wrote: The next off-topic post (i.e. Euphoria & Rednob's little spat) gets the person banned. This is for COMMENTS on the submitted maps. If you want to flame each other use the PM function. | ||
uhjoo
Korea (South)1740 Posts
On December 06 2004 17:59 S(O)ME(O)NE wrote: Have you ever heard of the phrase: Don't assume, you make an ASS out of U and ME. And about that proposed with the conflict of map plagerism stuff, you do realize that its not plagerism if credit is given to the origonal author, Like i said the only mistake i made was not putting the credit in my post for the submission of the map. If i would have put it there would you guys have flammed me the same way? Or would you have said something like no S(O)ME(O)NE you can not use modified maps in the contest please submit another. Im not trying to cheat, I made a mistake and you all jump on it with out knowing the half of it. I dont see you calling rose of dream a cheater, have a look at dual space then valley of wind hmm. I already admited my mistake. No It may have seen like i shrugged it off because I did not realize it was such a big deal okay you don't want remakes in the contest ill put a new map instead since remakes are not allowed. Thats what i was thinking at the time but whatever I admited to mistakes even in that post you refer to. keep on talking dude, keep on talking | ||
XaI)CyRiC
United States4471 Posts
I know that S(O)ME(O)NE has been DQ'd from the contest, I'll leave it up to uhjoo if he wants to allow Euphoria's map to still be allowed in and whether he wants to leave contact info for Euphoria to reach him. | ||
EuphoriaSquared
Canada1 Post
On December 06 2004 23:07 XaI)CyRiC wrote: Well I warned them and they ignored the warning. You should have PM'd your problems with each other, obviously you had difficulty understanding that part. This thread is for comments on the submitted maps, not for these stupid arguments. Euphoria especially showed his lack of reading comprehension and common sense by posting again on the topic of his "rule of thumb" despite there being an entire thread devoted to it. I know that S(O)ME(O)NE has been DQ'd from the contest, I'll leave it up to uhjoo if he wants to allow Euphoria's map to still be allowed in and whether he wants to leave contact info for Euphoria to reach him. The rule of thumb is perfectly on topic for the map comments. I commented on a map and how it didn't meet that rule of thumb. Then everyone else commented on how very few maps (inside and outside this contest) didn't meet that rule of thumb. Than I told everyone to read what I said and just drop it. Then you banned my other account. I don't quite see how this can be a breach of staying on topic. Futhermore, I don't see anything I've said that wasn't somehow related to a map in this contest. You're going to have to do better than that if you don't want to seem like a powerhungry moderator. | ||
XaI)CyRiC
United States4471 Posts
"...posting again on the topic of his 'rule of thumb'despite there being an entire thread devoted to it" | ||
LazySCV
United States2942 Posts
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Djin)Xuul(
Germany85 Posts
On December 06 2004 13:51 Orome wrote: Xuul, in case you didn't notice my first post: im rly sorry, i didnt read this... well.. then take Titty Twister, the other posted map ^^ | ||
uhjoo
Korea (South)1740 Posts
- the extra gas thing in the back of the main is more cute/annoying than anything... it becomes accessible right about when the "open" gas runs out, so it's essentially forces you to use 6 (or more) workers to get 6 instead of 5 gas per trip sequence. - the smaller number of mins at the main forces you to expand pretty quickly, and preferably take 2 expos, with any of the races... personally i think toss is most disadvantaged by the low number of mins at main. - terran is again formidable on this map-- there are select cliffs that once taken make it easy for the T to protect both min nat and the closest gas expo. but i actually didn't sense any huge balance issues either. | ||
Travin
Sweden672 Posts
On December 07 2004 15:05 uhjoo wrote: anyone been playtesting these maps? When I have some more reps to choose of I will make a replay packade of my map | ||
SoMuchBetter
Australia10606 Posts
I played a bit on big we play, which isnt a bad map. 11/1 and 5/7 can be very harsh on zerg. The thin path between those positions can make marine medic rushes and zealot rushes more powerful than a 12/3 rush on LT | ||
bigMommA
1985 Posts
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SoMuchBetter
Australia10606 Posts
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bigMommA
1985 Posts
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uhjoo
Korea (South)1740 Posts
On December 07 2004 17:37 SoMuchBetter wrote: I've been working on my map a bit. I'll release the new version once I get some confirmation from one of my testers The new version deals with every point you mentioned, save the gas thing :O. I'm surprised you didn't notice the nasty bug with zerg and the extra gas. All fixed though... i never played z-- we played... tvp, pvp (randomed), pvz, tvz so i only was able to play t and p. what was the bug btw? if it was giving lots of gas to z, that would explain the early guardians, lurkers and defilers^^ (j/k djetter ^_^) | ||
uhjoo
Korea (South)1740 Posts
On December 07 2004 17:47 bigMommA wrote: But banning him just omit his bm posts. I don't see a problem for him to still be a contestant though. His map has a lot of potential. i agree to a certain extent, but it's something i have to think over and discuss with the other staff. it's a shame imho that this thread got a contestant banned and is creating this dilemma =// | ||
Manifesto7
Osaka27009 Posts
On December 07 2004 17:47 bigMommA wrote: But banning him just omit his bm posts. I don't see a problem for him to still be a contestant though. His map has a lot of potential. This would not have been a problem if Euphoria had not decided to creat FIVE troll names in three hours, the last of which questioned a moderators sexual preference. Thereforre, he is unable to view the site anymore. Please, lets look past the last few pages and concentrate on the many good maps yet. | ||
SoMuchBetter
Australia10606 Posts
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uhjoo
Korea (South)1740 Posts
On December 07 2004 17:49 uhjoo wrote: i agree to a certain extent, but it's something i have to think over and discuss with the other staff. it's a shame imho that this thread got a contestant banned and is creating this dilemma =// euphoria's map will be dQ'ed from the competition. | ||
KrisElmqvist
Sweden1962 Posts
Last thing- Is it really necessary to pick apart each map's tiny flaws? In general situations such as placing gas at the closest expansion, instead of making it a mineral only, criticism and ideas are great. But I don't think we need to look at each flaw and difference unless it would make a drastic difference in gameplay. The aim with this contest is to select out an individual map to be viewed and commented by Rose.Of.Dream. If you read the interview with him you'd understand how important it is that the map is balanced. With proffessional starcraft gamers everything matter. They use flaws to their advantage that you or me would not have thought about in a million years. If these flaws were'nt to be fixed the map would almost be considered a freewin for certain players or races. That is why it is so important that the maps are improved to the maximum level of our capability before the competition is over.. And can someone please delete all off-topic posts, its really anoying, to have to look for the posts you want to read. And concerning the map Naxius Station: What is the main purpose of this map? With no center to fight on and all those hills and chokes everywhere, i'd say terran would dominate hillariously. and as far as it goes in a 2on2 game, it is really a pain in the ass when you cant reach the opposite base witout walking through one of the bases located on the sides. a possible 2on2 scenario is that team 2/8 defends the ramps and goes 2on1 attack on base 10. base 4 comes to assist, simply to be obliderated at one of the opponents defences... very long distances to walk, difficult expansions (if you're not terran), and the possibilities to completely siege down the entrance to a base from the cliffs over the bridges takes this map to my unliking. Its nothing personal, but i think this map needs some rethinking, or atleast some more work. Edit: Bhekar Ro Revival i like better. | ||
uhjoo
Korea (South)1740 Posts
On December 07 2004 17:53 SoMuchBetter wrote: for no particular reason, I decided to see if you could mine the extra gas without breaking through the minerals. Guess which race was the only one that could? undead? :-P i'm slightly on an anti-T anti-Z run now due to the dual league results, sorry for the snide comment :-O | ||
SoMuchBetter
Australia10606 Posts
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uhjoo
Korea (South)1740 Posts
On December 08 2004 03:27 SoMuchBetter wrote: If I make my map as protoss as possible will you make me autowin? yes, and if you can get it accepted to OSL so reach can make finals, you get the autowin. i promise. o ________________ o | ||
bigMommA
1985 Posts
by: Rose.of.dream modified by: somuchbetter | ||
Hautamaki
Canada1311 Posts
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Kl0sS
Sweden4 Posts
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Empyrean
16927 Posts
I just wanted to know what that picture is that replaced rednob's map? It's a lot better to look at, rednob's map almost gave me macular degeneration | ||
boongee
United States967 Posts
There is a Blizzard map named Space Debris already...weird. If you downloaded my map before, will you please delete it and download the newly named one? I don't want the other version to be shared. | ||
KrisElmqvist
Sweden1962 Posts
On December 08 2004 13:10 Kl0sS wrote: can someone look at my map? Position 9 and 5 is not fair in my opinion. 9 is totaly siegable from the hill just below the base entrance, and the hills overall contribute to very tight passages. Top possitions have no hills at all and expansions are on the other hand more difficult to defend there. The map overall is too easy to siege down with terran defences, or any defences would you like too. Small passages everywhere makes it very easy to push an attack without greater losses. Its easy to say "but build a shuttle or reasearch drop ovi and build on the rest of the map", but it shouldnt be taken as a fact that "if you play this map with neighbour positions, you loose your main base vs terran, so run and build somewhere else" ... Ive tried to make maps with varying gametypes depending on where you start. Theoreticly it is a good idea because the map becomes very varied and many different strategies can be used depending on start possitions. But imo, i think this map is to tight and everything is a bit confusing. If you put two really good players to study the map, you could probably have some great games played on it, but as for the normal player i think the map is too mixed-up to cope with... As for normal flaws (i have not measured, just looked at the picture so i might be wrong!): *The gas at position 11 looks siegable, so do the minerals at position 3. *The second nat at base 5 (the one you need drop to reach) has very anoying placement of minerals. *All gases in mains looks ok, but the ones in 1nat expansions looks misplaced. *The 9 main is (as previously mentioned) Siegable. *It's possible to siege 9 location 1nat from center gasexpansion, but no other expansions from that or the similar expansion on the other side of the map. And as for the look of the map - Add some doodads, use different terrain a little bit more, just to add some more texture to it, it looks alot better. Remember, this is what i didnt like about the map, meaning i liked everything else about it. Work hard and come up with some original sollutions to the problems and the map could be great, in my opinion. /Starparty | ||
Spore
68 Posts
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Kenny
United States678 Posts
My Map: Twist of Death | ||
Kl0sS
Sweden4 Posts
it was really helpful, map will soon be Updated. | ||
KrisElmqvist
Sweden1962 Posts
On December 09 2004 14:20 Q.PYRO.Q wrote: Hey, I was wondering if someone would please take a look at my map and post some comments about it. Thanks a bunch. My Map: Twist of Death First of all neighbour positions, both top and bottom are very close, making an early rush very effective, mabye too effective, but that is something the players shuld adapt to i guess... im not too fond of the fact that the center offers 2 expansions to top positions while only one to the players below. Overall there are very many expansions, and very many gasses! the 1nat minerals is too hard to defend, while the 2nat with gas is too easy the empty gasnodes at top and bottom leaves a questionmark. I think the starting hills are nice and symetrical, but the "cross" of open lowground, including the island on the sides should be altered. Its hard to specify but i think the map is kinda _way_ too open in some areas and the direct opposite in other areas. I personally would prefer some balance in the terrain. But thereare very little space to alter or add some extras between those bases, so how to solve that problem is up to you... Look at fallen matrix for examples on how to make your center a little bit more varied. I think peatza did a good job with that. I dont like the close aligned starting locations and the islands on the sides, they are too close to eachother, so, in game, you either command none or both, its not really going to be a fight over them. ive also learned that gasnodes placed under the main base requires 4 workers for efficient mining. for most effectivness they should be put top or to the left of your command center. I again have not been testing, but the gas at the left center expansion looks like it would be completely f***ed up when you add a comsat or nuclear silo to your base. /Starparty (btw, Peatza, you are [Cola]K_Peatza that i used to play with before you started bw? i dunno if you remember, but i always used to join your games when you started up random maps. Was [BiP]B1 or PasCale[M.L] then) Edit: "cross" - refering to practically the entire low ground between the bases. | ||
quasio
Sweden2 Posts
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KrisElmqvist
Sweden1962 Posts
/Starparty Edit: ofcourse it _MUSTN'T_ be a open area to fight on, but most players prefer that i guess... agosigos! | ||
Orome
Switzerland11984 Posts
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boongee
United States967 Posts
Frozen, I'll assume you're the one who sent it in to that site? | ||
boongee
United States967 Posts
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Peatza
Sweden393 Posts
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KrisElmqvist
Sweden1962 Posts
Vega 1.9: This map is perfect in all ways you look at it. This map looks like a progaming map and should be one. It's already better then some Progaming maps out there. Map design is flawless, art is what it is. I played a couple of PvsZ and PvsT on this map; it feels like Incubus, but much more fun. Map Balance Map Balance Map Balance, this map has it all. wow im blushing! thank you for that review, i hope i deserve it | ||
Famouzze
971 Posts
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On December 10 2004 15:01 boongee wrote: I've seen Excavation before. It's on starcraftgamers.com Frozen, I'll assume you're the one who sent it in to that site? Yup. Hm like a year or 2 ago | ||
oo0o0
Sweden47 Posts
On December 11 2004 05:23 Famouzze wrote: wow i really like straight and narrow, would love to see this used in a proleague or somedthing, very interesting games. gj. hehe thank you and the other guy who said they liked my map. Every time I have played on it or observed a game on it it has been very interesting and fun. | ||
SoMuchBetter
Australia10606 Posts
unfortunately, i have to go away two weeks, so i wont be able to do any more updates. You can view the image in my profile. | ||
oo0o0
Sweden47 Posts
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Peatza
Sweden393 Posts
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oo0o0
Sweden47 Posts
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