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froZen_wYnd
Canada270 Posts
i've seen this link on some other posts, but of u who thinks boxer is gay cuz of that should spend some time reading this, itz quite interesting and might enlighten some of u up =P http://www.sirlin.net/Features/feature_PlayToWinPart1.htm http://www.sirlin.net/Features/feature_PlayToWinPart2.htm http://www.sirlin.net/Features/feature_PlayToWinPart3.htm they're quite long, but i think well worth it =) | ||
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OhThatDang
United States4685 Posts
 boxer still was cheesy yet to me cheese is skill but anyways i dont realy like boxer so after this stuff hes still a pansy | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
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juSblazin
United States691 Posts
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booooo
Singapore372 Posts
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
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cava
United States1035 Posts
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AsleepDan
80 Posts
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Cambium
United States16368 Posts
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OhThatDang
United States4685 Posts
On November 12 2004 17:37 booooo wrote: say boxer played long games every game then. And loses all 3 games... will that be good for the fan base? Will you than say.. boxer really entertained us! woo! he lost really really well! yes actually they would have been better | ||
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2001newbie
United States336 Posts
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yomi
United States773 Posts
Rather than concede an advantage early and play conservatively, yellow played his best and tried to win. That's what SC is all about. No one that truly understands SC enjoys the macro wars games where one player is just trying to hold their advantage by throwing troops upon troops at their opponent. | ||
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Eye-Lose
United States71 Posts
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Nal_Testie
Canada1257 Posts
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Empyrean
17070 Posts
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RP80
Sweden64 Posts
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ajian
China56 Posts
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choader
United States487 Posts
On November 12 2004 17:32 HungZerg wrote: progamers are athletes, they are paid to entertain. delivering 3 games this bad when everyone expected huge amazing down to the wire games, especially from these 2, loses fan base so its bad for the game. it also pisses off all of us who wanted to see those good games If shaq managed to grab three jump balls in a row and after each one dunk before his feet touched the ground, he would be called a legend. Just like Boxer. | ||
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Excalibur_Z
United States12248 Posts
On November 12 2004 17:32 HungZerg wrote: progamers are athletes, they are paid to entertain. delivering 3 games this bad when everyone expected huge amazing down to the wire games, especially from these 2, loses fan base so its bad for the game. it also pisses off all of us who wanted to see those good games What are you babbling about? Progamers are paid to win. There is no sense in drawing out a game that can be concluded quickly, and we already know Boxer is still a micro master which means he is strongest in the early game. The fact that he was able to win every time with the same tactic proves two things: 1) that Yellow foolishly refused to be intimidated by Boxer's rushes and stuck to the same conservative builds every time, and 2) that Boxer will exploit every advantage he is given ruthlessly. I loved these games. Long games are only fun to watch when both sides are equally aggressive. | ||
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mrdx
Vietnam1555 Posts
On November 12 2004 17:45 cava wrote: Boxer doesnt play for you. He plays for boxer, anything else would be fake and i wouldnt watch it. Totally I agree. I don't see anything wrong with this. The game is fair and Boxer won because he deserved to win. That's it. | ||
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FeelTheMoment
89 Posts
On November 12 2004 17:32 HungZerg wrote: progamers are athletes, they are paid to entertain. delivering 3 games this bad when everyone expected huge amazing down to the wire games, especially from these 2, loses fan base so its bad for the game. it also pisses off all of us who wanted to see those good games They are not paid to entertain you. If entertaining people is their primary duty, OGN will probably bring fastest money map into their map pool. Once a progamer sees a chance to end the game he will go for it, only an idiot will wait a few more minutes just for a bigger and more entertaining battle. In this case, boxer sees the chance to end the game in the early stage, he went for it, there is no one to blame for. | ||
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1024MB
United States1455 Posts
On November 12 2004 20:00 FeelTheMoment wrote: They are not paid to entertain you. If entertaining people is their primary duty, OGN will probably bring fastest money map into their map pool. Once a progamer sees a chance to end the game he will go for it, only an idiot will wait a few more minutes just for a bigger and more entertaining battle. In this case, boxer sees the chance to end the game in the early stage, he went for it, there is no one to blame for. Exactly, in fact, if he did entertain, the people on here would probably start calling him "cocky" or something stupid like that. I could just see it: "Is Boxer Cocky?" Read more here. | ||
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Dave[9]
United States2365 Posts
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TH-GP
Australia226 Posts
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Tien
Russian Federation4447 Posts
"You know probably 1/10000 about the situation at hand here." All the way to your young boy description of people who want good games, your post was filled with garbage. I will attempt to try and have a proper argument and counter some of your arguments that arent filled with trash. You say that progamers should do everything they can to win. How would you feel if every single game turned out to be 5-10 minute games filled with 9pools, bunker rushes, proxy gates, and proxy raxes? Do you actually like watching these games? What would happen if when YOU played starcarft, every game would end within 10 mins? Every game you would either win by cheese or lose by it. Im 100% sure you wouldnt be playing this game for long. You say that they shouldnt care about entertaining us. I think they should. Entertainment is the only thing that will keep the fanbase alive. You have to accept that there is a LARGE majority of people out there who actually like long entertaining games. Delivering garbage games like these will do nothing but push them away. If all boxing matches started to end up in 1 round knockouts, nobody will be attracted to watch it. I for one would stop watching it. I watch boxing (and like millions of other people) in hope of that amazing back and forth fight where the boxers give it their all. I remember fights not because they lasted 1 round, but because they went all the way to the 12/14 round where both fighters toughed it out and gave it everything they had. This was also a Boxer vs Yellow CLASSIC. There is no better way to promote this game then have a classic series of back and forth action. Thats why I like players like Nada and Iloveoov (well i dont really like iloveoov but he entertains me) who are able to deliver high quality games. If I want some crappy ass games filled with bunker rushes, ill go play in wgtour myself. Series like these do nothing to promote starcraft. I stayed up all night hoping I would get a good series and all I get is a "Fuck You, I play to win". How do you think this makes me feel? | ||
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Kobayashi
Portugal1970 Posts
On November 12 2004 20:43 Tien wrote: God 1024MB, that post you linked was one heap of trash. I had to literally squint my eyes reading your 8 points. From "You know probably 1/10000 about the situation at hand here." All the way to your young boy description of people who want good games, your post was filled with garbage. I will attempt to try and have a proper argument and counter some of your arguments that arent filled with trash. You say that progamers should do everything they can to win. How would you feel if every single game turned out to be 5-10 minute games filled with 9pools, bunker rushes, proxy gates, and proxy raxes? Do you actually like watching these games? What would happen if when YOU played starcarft, every game would end within 10 mins? Every game you would either win by cheese or lose by it. Im 100% sure you wouldnt be playing this game for long. You say that they shouldnt care about entertaining us. I think they should. Entertainment is the only thing that will keep the fanbase alive. You have to accept that there is a LARGE majority of people out there who actually like long entertaining games. Delivering garbage games like these will do nothing but push them away. If all boxing matches started to end up in 1 round knockouts, nobody will be attracted to watch it. I for one would stop watching it. I watch boxing (and like millions of other people) in hope of that amazing back and forth fight where the boxers give it their all. I remember fights not because they lasted 1 round, but because they went all the way to the 12/14 round where both fighters toughed it out and gave it everything they had. This was also a Boxer vs Yellow CLASSIC. There is no better way to promote this game then have a classic series of back and forth action. Thats why I like players like Nada and Iloveoov who are able to deliver high quality games. If I want some crappy ass games filled with bunker rushes, ill go play in wgtour myself. Series like these do nothing to promote starcraft. I stayed up all night hoping I would get a good series and all I get is a "Fuck You, I play to win". How do you think this makes me feel?  the exact same discussion is going on in the other thread | ||
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KarlSberg~
731 Posts
On November 12 2004 20:00 FeelTheMoment wrote: They are not paid to entertain you. If entertaining people is their primary duty, OGN will probably bring fastest money map into their map pool. Once a progamer sees a chance to end the game he will go for it, only an idiot will wait a few more minutes just for a bigger and more entertaining battle. In this case, boxer sees the chance to end the game in the early stage, he went for it, there is no one to blame for. OGN's duty is to entertain people, so they pay players in hope games will be entertaining (I can't see how fast maps would help in any way) Players just play to win tho, so I see nothing wrong with what Boxer did. | ||
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maleorderbride
United States2916 Posts
On November 12 2004 18:10 yomi wrote: How is a bunker rush not a good game. I just don't get it. Most 30 minute EPIC DRAMA games don't have any moment as exciting as when that bunker is building and yellow desperatly tries to fend it off. Rather than concede an advantage early and play conservatively, yellow played his best and tried to win. That's what SC is all about. No one that truly understands SC enjoys the macro wars games where one player is just trying to hold their advantage by throwing troops upon troops at their opponent. Is this "macro game" your referring to actually using your SCVs to mine? Youre right though, you seem to understand SC like no else does. | ||
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XDawn
Canada4040 Posts
Accept it | ||
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GogoKodo
Canada1785 Posts
[B] Delivering garbage games like these will do nothing but push them away. If all boxing matches started to end up in 1 round knockouts, nobody will be attracted to watch it. I for one would stop watching it. I watch boxing (and like millions of other people) in hope of that amazing back and forth fight where the boxers give it their all. I remember fights not because they lasted 1 round, but because they went all the way to the 12/14 round where both fighters toughed it out and gave it everything they had. You yourself state that these boxers gave it their all. Well the Boxer did the same against Yellow, he used a weakness, saw a chance to win and took it. He did what he could do to win. In a boxing match the same thing will happen, both fighters give it their all. You don't think that if one of them thinks they know a weakness of the opponent, something they might be able exploit, that they won't use it just incase it might make the match end sooner? | ||
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1024MB
United States1455 Posts
On November 12 2004 20:43 Tien wrote: God 1024MB, that post you linked was one heap of trash. I had to literally squint my eyes reading your 8 points. From "You know probably 1/10000 about the situation at hand here." All the way to your young boy description of people who want good games, your post was filled with garbage. I will attempt to try and have a proper argument and counter some of your arguments that arent filled with trash. You say that progamers should do everything they can to win. How would you feel if every single game turned out to be 5-10 minute games filled with 9pools, bunker rushes, proxy gates, and proxy raxes? Do you actually like watching these games? What would happen if when YOU played starcarft, every game would end within 10 mins? Every game you would either win by cheese or lose by it. Im 100% sure you wouldnt be playing this game for long. You say that they shouldnt care about entertaining us. I think they should. Entertainment is the only thing that will keep the fanbase alive. You have to accept that there is a LARGE majority of people out there who actually like long entertaining games. Delivering garbage games like these will do nothing but push them away. If all boxing matches started to end up in 1 round knockouts, nobody will be attracted to watch it. I for one would stop watching it. I watch boxing (and like millions of other people) in hope of that amazing back and forth fight where the boxers give it their all. I remember fights not because they lasted 1 round, but because they went all the way to the 12/14 round where both fighters toughed it out and gave it everything they had. This was also a Boxer vs Yellow CLASSIC. There is no better way to promote this game then have a classic series of back and forth action. Thats why I like players like Nada and Iloveoov (well i dont really like iloveoov but he entertains me) who are able to deliver high quality games. If I want some crappy ass games filled with bunker rushes, ill go play in wgtour myself. Series like these do nothing to promote starcraft. I stayed up all night hoping I would get a good series and all I get is a "Fuck You, I play to win". How do you think this makes me feel? So basically you like dummied up, rigged games for your entertainment? In that case, let me refer you to a little thing called the WWE. | ||
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Cambium
United States16368 Posts
As well, I don't recall anyone calling Xellos a Pansy when he beat Boxer 3-0 in 2003. | ||
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Geval
788 Posts
On November 12 2004 17:32 HungZerg wrote: progamers are athletes, they are paid to entertain. delivering 3 games this bad when everyone expected huge amazing down to the wire games, especially from these 2, loses fan base so its bad for the game. it also pisses off all of us who wanted to see those good games No. If you would ask fans beforre the game if they want to see another 4/5 games or unforgatable games, most would go for unforgetable. And apparently it was unforgetable and most controvertial bo5 ever. ONG will get attention and boxer will get more fans (maybe not right away but after a while when ppl we see these games differently) BTW I bet more ppl will download and analize this game then reach vs Oov (which was, I have to say, quite good) | ||
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Schnake
Germany2819 Posts
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Geval
788 Posts
On November 12 2004 20:43 Tien wrote: God 1024MB, that post you linked was one heap of trash. I had to literally squint my eyes reading your 8 points. From "You know probably 1/10000 about the situation at hand here." All the way to your young boy description of people who want good games, your post was filled with garbage. I will attempt to try and have a proper argument and counter some of your arguments that arent filled with trash. You say that progamers should do everything they can to win. How would you feel if every single game turned out to be 5-10 minute games filled with 9pools, bunker rushes, proxy gates, and proxy raxes? Do you actually like watching these games? What would happen if when YOU played starcarft, every game would end within 10 mins? Every game you would either win by cheese or lose by it. Im 100% sure you wouldnt be playing this game for long. You say that they shouldnt care about entertaining us. I think they should. Entertainment is the only thing that will keep the fanbase alive. You have to accept that there is a LARGE majority of people out there who actually like long entertaining games. Delivering garbage games like these will do nothing but push them away. If all boxing matches started to end up in 1 round knockouts, nobody will be attracted to watch it. I for one would stop watching it. I watch boxing (and like millions of other people) in hope of that amazing back and forth fight where the boxers give it their all. I remember fights not because they lasted 1 round, but because they went all the way to the 12/14 round where both fighters toughed it out and gave it everything they had. This was also a Boxer vs Yellow CLASSIC. There is no better way to promote this game then have a classic series of back and forth action. Thats why I like players like Nada and Iloveoov (well i dont really like iloveoov but he entertains me) who are able to deliver high quality games. If I want some crappy ass games filled with bunker rushes, ill go play in wgtour myself. Series like these do nothing to promote starcraft. I stayed up all night hoping I would get a good series and all I get is a "Fuck You, I play to win". How do you think this makes me feel? Is the Entertainment (by fancy mean)there piority? Thats why we have WWF for that. But most of us prefer true rivaly, play to win thats why Italian soccer league, the patriots ....ect. are still around. Lastly, Boxer has always been the most entertainment sc player (garimto is second) ever. | ||
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Orlandu
China2450 Posts
Put yourself in HIS shoes. He's not seeing a dime more if he makes the matches more entertaining. He's supposedly going to be retiring or something for the army sometime down the road anyway (that is the situation, right?), so even IF that one series had any long-term effect on his fanbase, or the prosperity of the game, he would be gone before it had any real effect. It may not have been the most entertaining, or the most incredible display of talent, but it's not about that. | ||
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dsh
United States879 Posts
On November 12 2004 21:34 KeepOfOnE wrote: Why do you guys argue over everything? He won, it's been done - period. Accept it yeah, what he said | ||
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-DaJ-
Switzerland539 Posts
On November 12 2004 20:43 Tien wrote: You say that progamers should do everything they can to win. How would you feel if every single game turned out to be 5-10 minute games filled with 9pools, bunker rushes, proxy gates, and proxy raxes? Do you actually like watching these games? What would happen if when YOU played starcarft, every game would end within 10 mins? Every game you would either win by cheese or lose by it. Im 100% sure you wouldnt be playing this game for long. there has to be a way to counter this strat 100%. and the players wont do cheese strats all the way, becuz it wouldnt be surprising anymore. imagine in the finals, both players woukld go cheese rush -> wont work, cuz both know they go cheese...so it would be more effective to try a strat to defend the rush and try to gain an advantage for mid / late game. On November 12 2004 20:43 Tien wrote: You say that they shouldnt care about entertaining us. I think they should. Entertainment is the only thing that will keep the fanbase alive. i suppose u didnt understand the maintheme about sports (i even suppose u dont do any competitive sports). its all about winning. to make it easy, an example: -basketball: why the hell shouldn't i penetrate to the basket alone and make the points, when my way is free. -> a pass to a member of my team would just be useless and timewasting. translateted to sc/bw: if there is oppertunity to win the game then use it! they dont play for us. they play first to win second for themselves and third for their team. On November 12 2004 20:43 Tien wrote: You have to accept that there is a LARGE majority of people out there who actually like long entertaining games. Delivering garbage games like these will do nothing but push them away. If all boxing matches started to end up in 1 round knockouts, nobody will be attracted to watch it. I for one would stop watching it. I watch boxing (and like millions of other people) in hope of that amazing back and forth fight where the boxers give it their all. I remember fights not because they lasted 1 round, but because they went all the way to the 12/14 round where both fighters toughed it out and gave it everything they had. okay again: first. they dont care how many people are watching. becuz im sure a lot of u did dl the vods just to see how he played. people will always watch the game. and second: if u now wanna say, "but when they only do cheese rushes, we wont watch the games anymore" -> see my point 1. there wont be just cheese strats -> becuz there is a way do counter it. (yellow wasnt prepared to counter such strats). On November 12 2004 20:43 Tien wrote: This was also a Boxer vs Yellow CLASSIC. There is no better way to promote this game then have a classic series of back and forth action. Thats why I like players like Nada and Iloveoov (well i dont really like iloveoov but he entertains me) who are able to deliver high quality games. If I want some crappy ass games filled with bunker rushes, ill go play in wgtour myself. it was high quality: i bet u will never forget this series! and try to perfect the cheese rush 3 times vs. yellow, that isnt easy. On November 12 2004 20:43 Tien wrote: Series like these do nothing to promote starcraft. I stayed up all night hoping I would get a good series and all I get is a "Fuck You, I play to win". How do you think this makes me feel? they dont have to promote the game. the game does it itself. it is another aspect of the game. so if u dont accept it u are not and will never be gosu...u have to accept the circumstances as they are -> read merlin....very first post. | ||
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Mr. Mystery
United States25 Posts
I used to greatly admire his unique style, but nowadays the only wins he gets in starleagues are the ones he cheesed. He never beats anyone after earlygame. I think Boxer should just retire and leave the pro scene, and maybe go to army or something. His micro is fucking insane, but that is useless because he stinks at everything else. I don't think he deserves all the admirations fans any more. | ||
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PoP
France15446 Posts
On November 13 2004 03:26 Mr. Mystery wrote: Boxer just sucks. I used to greatly admire his unique style, but nowadays the only wins he gets in starleagues are the ones he cheesed. He never beats anyone after earlygame. I think Boxer should just retire and leave the pro scene, and maybe go to army or something. His micro is fucking insane, but that is useless because he stinks at everything else. I don't think he deserves all the admirations fans any more. Condensing so much bullshit in so few lines is truly awesome. I admire you. | ||
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thelucas
Slovakia285 Posts
Boxer is not Jesus! He is player, who want to win. Dont bubling about irelevant things. | ||
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SoL.Origin
Argentina2400 Posts
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Liquid`Ret
Netherlands4523 Posts
A lot of money is on the line. The same happens in soccer, some teams play really boring and really safe and win 1-0, just look at the champions league. Win > Spectacular play. What should happen is for the League Organizers to create the perfect enviroment in where spectacular play could happen. I.E maps , rules , format and whatnot. It's not the players fault. | ||
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pooper-scooper
United States3108 Posts
Those were very good articles, and made me realize that this was a legit strat poineering. However, I wish that yellow had practice countering the strat. That would have been even cooler to see. I just wish that this boring tactic hadn't been premired in what was anticipated to be an exciting match. | ||
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SoL.Origin
Argentina2400 Posts
you are a zerg user after all, not a boxer fan, yes? -_- | ||
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zero89
United States295 Posts
he just owned Yellow 3-0 he bunker rushed so what? are you yellow? are you going to the OGN finals? are you a progamer? hmm no, so then hush because the objective in that game is to destroy your enemy and thats just what Boxer did doesnt matter how he won and if you think boxer is pansy why would you care anyway pfft ignorants | ||
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