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World Cyber Games to officially retire StarCraft 1 - Page 23

Forum Index > BW General
710 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 21 22 23 24 25 36 Next All
KaizenOSU
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom33 Posts
March 07 2011 17:51 GMT
#441
WCG is a business...needs to turnover profits and by using sc2 instead of BW makes sense.
No progress? No purpose...
pedduck
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Thailand468 Posts
March 07 2011 17:53 GMT
#442
WCG is one of a few tournament that I can have replays of progamers
Probably only one that I can get Korean pro's replay
qzmpwxno
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Papua New Guinea152 Posts
March 07 2011 17:55 GMT
#443
I wanted to see Jaedong take another WCG gold man!!!

oh well, it was gonna happen sooner or later. I don't think Wcg are real BW fans, unfortunately.
Stand on one block but own the whole street~
TiQ.SinGi
Profile Joined December 2004
Norway385 Posts
March 07 2011 17:55 GMT
#444
Sad! Was hoping for one more round of BW T_T
But since there are no more players to actually have any real turnament in WCG for BW besides Korea its not like
its a shock~~ only sad :d
“Approved attributes and their relation to face make every man his own jailer; this is a fundamental social constraint even though each man may like his cell.” -Goffman
Ruff
Profile Joined August 2006
Kazakhstan179 Posts
March 07 2011 17:56 GMT
#445
"We decided to remove StarCraft 1 from our games lineup after a discussion with the gamers from all over the world". This is dirty lie!! SC: BW won WCG game poll every year. WCG sold themself. Money from Blizzard > gamers?!

I hate WCG now and will never watch it.

User was temp banned for this post.
"Keep on dreaming, boy, cause someday you will shine" (Ogogo).
TurboDreams
Profile Joined April 2009
United States427 Posts
March 07 2011 18:01 GMT
#446
This was to be expected considering the popularity SC2 has currently. The only good thing that came out of this is that it strengthen my love for BW and ladder like if it was the last day left.
Music is the medicine of the mind || Kill a Zergling and a hundred more will take its place.
smileyyy
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany1816 Posts
March 07 2011 18:02 GMT
#447
On March 08 2011 02:56 Ruff wrote:
"We decided to remove StarCraft 1 from our games lineup after a discussion with the gamers from all over the world". This is dirty lie!! SC: BW won WCG game poll every year. WCG sold themself. Money from Blizzard > gamers?!

I hate WCG now and will never watch it.

WCG = World Cyber Games != Korean Cyber Games

BW is dead outside of Korea face it its the truth. Theres no point at all in keeping it.
Sc2 on the other hand :o
Fruitseller: I feel like it's a good strategy[6Pool]. I had a lot of strategies, but I thought about it a lot and decided to 6 pool. Other people told me to 6 pool too
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
March 07 2011 18:03 GMT
#448
On March 08 2011 02:40 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2011 02:18 etheovermind wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On March 08 2011 02:14 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2011 00:39 maybenexttime wrote:
On March 07 2011 18:11 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:
On March 07 2011 18:06 AcOrP wrote:
I'm confused by all the posts here to be honest watching SC:BW kept me for years while SC2 lost me for a few months, I think if SC2 replace BW in korea it won't take long till people get bored. I don't find it fun to watch SC2 games anymore not GSL nor anyother tourney, lets see if the expansions bring more entertaiment but if they don't SC2 will die in a year or two...


I have seen similar posts like these. I played a bit of Brood war in early 2000's (01-03ish) then on and off until SC2. But I never got into esports really until SC2. Could hardcore BW viewers elaborate a bit more upon exactly what facets of competitive play are attractive to watch in BW and what turns you off to SC2. I'm curious if its something fundamental in the game design that is unchangable or something temporal that will/could either be patched by the developers or altered by the tournament organizers/team organizers.


What turns me off in sc2? Ball vs. ball gameplay, lack of positioning and micro compared to BW (look up some highlight videos in TLPD/YouTube, especially Jaedong's and JulyZerg's Muta micro, sc2 Muta "micro" pales in comparison), lots of boring spells (because of smart-casting blizzard had to severely nerf plenty of promising spells), dull/broken units (such as Colossus, Immortal, Marauder, etc.; especially considering the fact that they replaced some of the most amazing units in the history of RTS games, like Vultures), comparable lack of mechanical demands, the lack of "bugs" that made the game more varied (like mineral jumping e.g.), horrible maps, the fact that the three races are pretty similar compared to their BW counterparts (in BW playing another match-up is almost like playing another game).

I especially dislike the fact that in sc2 managing 4-5 bases is as easy as managing just 1-2, pretty much. In BW the more bases you have, the more multi-tasking demanding playing the game gets. You have to manage your "screen time" and so on.

I'm sure there are more. If you read this post, tell me if you want me to post some more. ;p


So it is fair to say this is by in large a temporary dislike of the game based on expectations you have created from professional players building on 12 years of trial and error, history and practice. We are starting to see more games where unit positioning is becoming more and more important with "death ball" strategies becoming less and less powerful as opponents adapt.

I think over time, as we get better maps that are designed to challenge SC2 play, and not try to convert BW play into SC2, we will see a return of that excitement you were talking about.

I don't watch a whole lot of BW, but I would have no problem agreeing that the players in that game are definitely more refined and are cognitive of the tons of subtleties and strategies they can expereince, while SC2 pros are still feeling around for that complete "game sense" or "star sense" top tier BW players have.

Again I do not have the same emotional investment or history with BW that many of you have, but I think its a little harsh to imply SC2 will forever be inferior to BW. I really think it could eventually surpass it if given enough time and care (and Blizzard, for the love of god, stops listening to their official forums. Have you see that place?! It makes you want to kick a baby.)

Here is a replay of my 10 year old cousin, with out any technique or game understanding at all. BW is just naturally a good game and has been that way since it was released.
replay: http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=41046


I think this part is jaded in subjectivity. Especially when you consider the different communities that existed from the start of BW versus SC2 and the state of the competitive scene. Although, I have not viewed the replay yet, this is just my initial thought.

He got away with it because of the BW mention. if he had said starcraft1 he would have been way wrong. since starcraft1 on release was reallly awful. but from BW on it was a great game.
slappy
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1271 Posts
March 07 2011 18:04 GMT
#449
can't do both?
jaedong imba
eviltomahawk
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States11135 Posts
March 07 2011 18:05 GMT
#450
On March 08 2011 02:56 Ruff wrote:
"We decided to remove StarCraft 1 from our games lineup after a discussion with the gamers from all over the world". This is dirty lie!! SC: BW won WCG game poll every year. WCG sold themself. Money from Blizzard > gamers?!

I hate WCG now and will never watch it.

SC2 won this year's WCG game poll over BW, unfortunately. The gamers and fans had spoken, and SC2 was on their minds over BW, possibly by an overwhelming number.
http://www.wcg.com/6th/fun/news/news_view.asp?keyno=C10121610000
ㅇㅅㅌㅅ
ondik
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Czech Republic2908 Posts
March 07 2011 18:06 GMT
#451
I really don't get the hardcore BW fans (I've been following BW for many years and still am). Do you even realize how humiliating would it be for BW to be still at WCG? There would be 3 koreans + bunch of nonamers because noone really good outside Korea plays it any more. Rather than this sad thing, it's better to not have any tournament at all.
Bisu. The one and only. // Save the cheerreaver, save the world (of SC2)
playa
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States1284 Posts
March 07 2011 18:28 GMT
#452
On March 08 2011 03:05 eviltomahawk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2011 02:56 Ruff wrote:
"We decided to remove StarCraft 1 from our games lineup after a discussion with the gamers from all over the world". This is dirty lie!! SC: BW won WCG game poll every year. WCG sold themself. Money from Blizzard > gamers?!

I hate WCG now and will never watch it.

SC2 won this year's WCG game poll over BW, unfortunately. The gamers and fans had spoken, and SC2 was on their minds over BW, possibly by an overwhelming number.
http://www.wcg.com/6th/fun/news/news_view.asp?keyno=C10121610000


I only count 8 games listed, even though they are talking about the top 10 games. Part of why people don't play SC is cause of the lack of tournaments. Every year WCG has games where they are lucky if 5 people sign up per qualifier. No matter how you want to spin it, SC is not at that level of "dead."

Koreans absolutely destroy non-Koreans every year in SC, so it's hyperbole to act like there will be a drastic difference or the world will end if a "tier 2 foreigner" is there instead of a tier A player. If you switched over to SC 2 and failed to qualify for finals, why wouldn't you also play SC if you're good at it?

Marketing wise, what better place to kill off BW and promote SC 2 than Korea? The Blizzard vs Samsung dynamic is far more important in something like this, IMO.
Kaniol
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Poland5551 Posts
March 07 2011 18:30 GMT
#453
Smart choice. Recently WCG finals were WCG Korea rematches anyway...
GriMeR
Profile Joined February 2010
United States148 Posts
March 07 2011 18:38 GMT
#454
Honestly this is the best choice, This will help SC2 grow, and it is the premier esport atm. I think too many people have nostalgia-ish feelings about BW and get saddened to see it slowly hit the sack.
"Now let's have coffee and discuss the bunker build time!" "I'm still kinda on the fence about it Dustin, we can't make changes like these on a whim" "Agreed, agreed ... what do you think David?" "Hmmm what? ... I mean, o yeah, Terran definitely seems
sYz-Adrenaline
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States1850 Posts
March 07 2011 18:41 GMT
#455
I officially quit BW~
Can you feel the rush?
Sayle
Profile Joined October 2010
United Kingdom3685 Posts
March 07 2011 18:46 GMT
#456
On March 08 2011 03:41 sYz-Adrenaline wrote:
I officially quit BW~


Give us money for ISL2 and ISL3 first please :D
ZeritoN
Profile Joined April 2010
United Kingdom14 Posts
March 07 2011 18:52 GMT
#457
Makes sense to drop BW but keep WC3...


/sarcasm
eviltomahawk
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States11135 Posts
March 07 2011 18:52 GMT
#458
On March 08 2011 03:28 playa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2011 03:05 eviltomahawk wrote:
On March 08 2011 02:56 Ruff wrote:
"We decided to remove StarCraft 1 from our games lineup after a discussion with the gamers from all over the world". This is dirty lie!! SC: BW won WCG game poll every year. WCG sold themself. Money from Blizzard > gamers?!

I hate WCG now and will never watch it.

SC2 won this year's WCG game poll over BW, unfortunately. The gamers and fans had spoken, and SC2 was on their minds over BW, possibly by an overwhelming number.
http://www.wcg.com/6th/fun/news/news_view.asp?keyno=C10121610000


I only count 8 games listed, even though they are talking about the top 10 games. Part of why people don't play SC is cause of the lack of tournaments. Every year WCG has games where they are lucky if 5 people sign up per qualifier. No matter how you want to spin it, SC is not at that level of "dead."

Koreans absolutely destroy non-Koreans every year in SC, so it's hyperbole to act like there will be a drastic difference or the world will end if a "tier 2 foreigner" is there instead of a tier A player. If you switched over to SC 2 and failed to qualify for finals, why wouldn't you also play SC if you're good at it?

Marketing wise, what better place to kill off BW and promote SC 2 than Korea? The Blizzard vs Samsung dynamic is far more important in something like this, IMO.

Well, WCG did only include 9 games in their official lineup, and they chose Special Force and Crossfire over CoD Black Ops.

I think one of the major issues that made WCG drop BW is the fact that with the Blizzard vs KeSPA debate and lawsuit going on, KeSPA would have most likely not sent their players to WCG and OGN would not be able to broadcast the event.

In fact, according to a previous thread:
"They are currently considering including Blizzard Games as an official event under the condition that they do not broadcast the games within Korea and Korean representatives are not playing in the WCG"

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=196208

So it pretty much was either having a BW tournament without Koreans or have an SC2 tournament. Considering the state of the foreign competitive scene for BW, a BW tournament would be an absolutely pitiful display of skill since most every non-Korean has switched over.
ㅇㅅㅌㅅ
urashimakt
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1591 Posts
March 07 2011 18:52 GMT
#459
On March 08 2011 03:28 playa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2011 03:05 eviltomahawk wrote:
On March 08 2011 02:56 Ruff wrote:
"We decided to remove StarCraft 1 from our games lineup after a discussion with the gamers from all over the world". This is dirty lie!! SC: BW won WCG game poll every year. WCG sold themself. Money from Blizzard > gamers?!

I hate WCG now and will never watch it.

SC2 won this year's WCG game poll over BW, unfortunately. The gamers and fans had spoken, and SC2 was on their minds over BW, possibly by an overwhelming number.
http://www.wcg.com/6th/fun/news/news_view.asp?keyno=C10121610000


I only count 8 games listed, even though they are talking about the top 10 games. Part of why people don't play SC is cause of the lack of tournaments. Every year WCG has games where they are lucky if 5 people sign up per qualifier. No matter how you want to spin it, SC is not at that level of "dead."

Koreans absolutely destroy non-Koreans every year in SC, so it's hyperbole to act like there will be a drastic difference or the world will end if a "tier 2 foreigner" is there instead of a tier A player. If you switched over to SC 2 and failed to qualify for finals, why wouldn't you also play SC if you're good at it?

Marketing wise, what better place to kill off BW and promote SC 2 than Korea? The Blizzard vs Samsung dynamic is far more important in something like this, IMO.

I think you're talking about the difference between fielding a competition where several countries are well-represented but one is super dominant (SC:BW pre-SC2, Korea) and one where only one country is capable of respectable representation (SC:BW post-SC2, Korea). This is not to dig at BW as a respectable game, but to urge consideration for why it might no longer be a suitable competition at an international level as opposed to its previous showings.
Who dat ninja?
playa
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States1284 Posts
March 07 2011 19:07 GMT
#460
Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the last big SC 2 tourney (IEM), didn't Korea take the top 3 spots? To my knowledge, those weren't even the best Koreans in their scene, meanwhile most of the best foreigners competed in this. I think SC 2 is going down the same path, so I don't think there's really a big difference there. Even if 1 country is dominant, big deal? That never stopped people from loving SC at WCG. Did you see flash vs jaedong last year at the finals? Parity might be a desirable thing, but I can't see that stopping someone from enjoy a game at WCG. Who doesn't like watching an underdog, anyways?
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