|
I know for OSL, the prize money is 40000000 won for winner and half that for runner up, but does anyone know the distribution for ro4, ro8, ro16 and ro32? Are they paid anything? And for MSL?
edit: according to the replies here: http://www.fomos.kr/gnuboard4/bbs/board.php?bo_table=know&wr_id=7172&page=7
for the 2009 batoo OSL,
ro4: 7000000 won
ro8: 3000000 won
ro16: 2000000 won
ro36: 250000 won for 1st in group, 150000 won for 2nd, 100000 for 3rd.
(to get dollar figures, you do the math)
The poster I think calculated this from the total prize money from a news article.
Obviously it's ALOT less than the GSL, especially considering there's twice as many GSL's per year then MSL+OSL combined, and right now IMO there's more talent in sc1.
|
GSL from what I've heard is in deficit though while MBC and OSL break even or get some change but not much so if the increase the prize pool to GSL they would be losing money each time they run it.
|
GSL depends on Blizzard for money, OSL and MSL are financially independent.
|
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
On February 05 2011 15:52 jalstar wrote:
GSL depends on Blizzard for money, OSL and MSL are financially independent.
Not really all prize money from for the GSL is from the sponsor.
|
On February 05 2011 15:52 jalstar wrote:
GSL depends on Blizzard for money, OSL and MSL are financially independent.
Blizzard is spending a lot of money to increase the popularity and hopefully one day sponsors will take up the prize pool.
|
The Econ r different.
Bw winneres don't enev keep their winnings, prize money's, they all go to the team. But they get paid in so many other ways that they End up much better comp than sc2 players. For example they could be paid per pro league win. Bit that varies from contract to contract so in the end we have no idea how much they're paid. But flash prob makes a million a year.
|
im pretty sure GSL is going all out on prize money to try to get a big base and hope that eventually they will be making money from it. kinda like how sony sells PS3's at a lost but make up for it with software sells... GSL is hoping to make more money in the future from sponsors + charging sucker foreigners 50$ a month.
On February 05 2011 15:54 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2011 15:52 jalstar wrote:
GSL depends on Blizzard for money, OSL and MSL are financially independent. Not really all prize money from for the GSL is from the sponsor.
didn't the 1st GSL not even have a sponsor?
|
On February 05 2011 15:57 gen.Sun wrote:
The Econ r different.
Bw winneres don't enev keep their winnings, prize money's, they all go to the team. But they get paid in so many other ways that they End up much better comp than sc2 players. For example they could be paid per pro league win. Bit that varies from contract to contract so in the end we have no idea how much they're paid. But flash prob makes a million a year.
im 99% sure that players get to keep their individual league winnings lol
edit - i dont think anyone makes over 200k a year (even flash/bisu). i think nada made the most ever on a contract after he won the golden mouse, which was like 250k a year. It was pretty big news if i remember correctly.
|
They announced the prize pools before they had sponsors, so I think at least some of it comes from Blizzard.
|
On February 05 2011 15:57 gen.Sun wrote:
The Econ r different.
Bw winneres don't enev keep their winnings, prize money's, they all go to the team. But they get paid in so many other ways that they End up much better comp than sc2 players. For example they could be paid per pro league win. Bit that varies from contract to contract so in the end we have no idea how much they're paid. But flash prob makes a million a year.
Players keep their winning money but sometimes will give the team/coach a bit out of his own consent.
|
I think the best players make around 300k (flash etc), especially counting all endorsements and individual leagues (I dont think it's at a million). But that still doesnt compare to sc2 right now, imagine if a bonjwa emerged, he could potentially win 10 out of the 12 tourneys as they dont overlap with each other, which would amount to like a million.
|
On February 05 2011 15:57 stangstang wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2011 15:52 jalstar wrote:
GSL depends on Blizzard for money, OSL and MSL are financially independent. Blizzard is spending a lot of money to increase the popularity and hopefully one day sponsors will take up the prize pool.
Sadly, 0.0000000000000000000001% of the revenue Blizzard makes from WoW can easily fund GSL for an entire year.
|
On February 05 2011 15:57 gen.Sun wrote:
The Econ r different.
Bw winneres don't enev keep their winnings, prize money's, they all go to the team. But they get paid in so many other ways that they End up much better comp than sc2 players. For example they could be paid per pro league win. Bit that varies from contract to contract so in the end we have no idea how much they're paid. But flash prob makes a million a year.
Whether they keep their winnings or not depends on the individual contracts they have with the teams. Different teams have different rules and even within the teams, the terms vary for each player.
But yes you're right that we have no idea how much they're paid cos of the bonuses. They get various bonuses for each proleague win, playing Ace matches, making the playoffs, advancing further into starleagues etc.
On February 05 2011 15:59 Ideas wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2011 15:57 gen.Sun wrote:
The Econ r different.
Bw winneres don't enev keep their winnings, prize money's, they all go to the team. But they get paid in so many other ways that they End up much better comp than sc2 players. For example they could be paid per pro league win. Bit that varies from contract to contract so in the end we have no idea how much they're paid. But flash prob makes a million a year. im 99% sure that players get to keep their individual league winnings lol edit - i dont think anyone makes over 200k a year (even flash/bisu). i think nada made the most ever on a contract after he won the golden mouse, which was like 250k a year. It was pretty big news if i remember correctly.
It was reported that Flash got a pay-rise after KT won the proleague, to something in excess of 300 000kWon a year, basic salary alone. Jaedong makes 200 000kWon++. I think Bisu as well.
|
you mean 200k dollars. 200k won is like two weeks groceries.
|
On February 05 2011 16:08 theramstoss wrote:
I think the best players make around 300k (flash etc), especially counting all endorsements and individual leagues (I dont think it's at a million). But that still doesnt compare to sc2 right now, imagine if a bonjwa emerged, he could potentially win 10 out of the 12 tourneys as they dont overlap with each other, which would amount to like a million.
Flash is rumoured to make 300k salary with performance bonuses. Individual leagues and endorsements probably get him much more. Also, GSL lowered the prize money of their "regular" tournaments to 50m won and they don't even have 12 GSLs a year anymore.
|
On February 05 2011 16:15 theramstoss wrote:
you mean 200k dollars. 200k won is like two weeks groceries.
No I mean won, but I forgot the "000".
|
51449 Posts
unlike sc2, bw players get appearance fees (players actually went on strike in 2003 to get these).
|
On February 05 2011 16:18 aru wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2011 16:08 theramstoss wrote:
I think the best players make around 300k (flash etc), especially counting all endorsements and individual leagues (I dont think it's at a million). But that still doesnt compare to sc2 right now, imagine if a bonjwa emerged, he could potentially win 10 out of the 12 tourneys as they dont overlap with each other, which would amount to like a million. Flash is rumoured to make 300k salary with performance bonuses. Individual leagues and endorsements probably get him much more. Also, GSL lowered the prize money of their "regular" tournaments to 50m won and they don't even have 12 GSLs a year anymore.
ughh.. bummer. I was excited for the financial prospects of sc2 pros.
|
On February 05 2011 16:19 GTR wrote:
unlike sc2, bw players get appearance fees (players actually went on strike in 2003 to get these).
Is that separate from salaries they get from their teams? Do they get those from I guess the broadcasting companies?
|
On February 05 2011 15:59 Ideas wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2011 15:57 gen.Sun wrote:
The Econ r different.
Bw winneres don't enev keep their winnings, prize money's, they all go to the team. But they get paid in so many other ways that they End up much better comp than sc2 players. For example they could be paid per pro league win. Bit that varies from contract to contract so in the end we have no idea how much they're paid. But flash prob makes a million a year. im 99% sure that players get to keep their individual league winnings lol edit - i dont think anyone makes over 200k a year (even flash/bisu). i think nada made the most ever on a contract after he won the golden mouse, which was like 250k a year. It was pretty big news if i remember correctly.
Actually, Milkis posted the salaries recently:
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=142342
Flash for example, makes 250 million won a year, which is above 200k a year. That's ignoring his bonuses from PL and his SL winnings, considering he won 4 golds which are 35k and 2 silvers(35k) he made about 400k USD last year ( without PL winnings, WCG winnings, extra bonuses, special events)
If you do it for JD, he got approx 285k, that's pretty impressive too.
Edit: Bisu also has a pretty decent salary for PL alone, but he isnt winning many tourneys. The top players make a decent amount of money, however it goes down logarithmically from there, there is no reason for JD/Flash to switch, but there are plenty of reasons for the average A-teamer to.
|
On February 05 2011 16:18 aru wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2011 16:08 theramstoss wrote:
I think the best players make around 300k (flash etc), especially counting all endorsements and individual leagues (I dont think it's at a million). But that still doesnt compare to sc2 right now, imagine if a bonjwa emerged, he could potentially win 10 out of the 12 tourneys as they dont overlap with each other, which would amount to like a million. Flash is rumoured to make 300k salary with performance bonuses. Individual leagues and endorsements probably get him much more. Also, GSL lowered the prize money of their "regular" tournaments to 50m won and they don't even have 12 GSLs a year anymore.
Can you link me to where it says they will have less than 12 GSL's a year?
|
On February 05 2011 16:33 samachking wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2011 15:59 Ideas wrote:On February 05 2011 15:57 gen.Sun wrote:
The Econ r different.
Bw winneres don't enev keep their winnings, prize money's, they all go to the team. But they get paid in so many other ways that they End up much better comp than sc2 players. For example they could be paid per pro league win. Bit that varies from contract to contract so in the end we have no idea how much they're paid. But flash prob makes a million a year. im 99% sure that players get to keep their individual league winnings lol edit - i dont think anyone makes over 200k a year (even flash/bisu). i think nada made the most ever on a contract after he won the golden mouse, which was like 250k a year. It was pretty big news if i remember correctly. Actually, Milkis posted the salaries recently: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=142342Flash for example, makes 250 million won a year, which is above 200k a year. That's ignoring his bonuses from PL and his SL winnings, considering he won 4 golds which are 35k and 2 silvers(35k) he made about 400k USD last year ( without PL winnings, WCG winnings, extra bonuses, special events) If you do it for JD, he got approx 285k, that's pretty impressive too. Edit: Bisu also has a pretty decent salary for PL alone, but he isnt winning many tourneys. The top players make a decent amount of money, however it goes down logarithmically from there, there is no reason for JD/Flash to switch, but there are plenty of reasons for the average A-teamer to.
Funny post in August 2010: "Bisu salary is indeed too high ... it will get lower when his contract expires."
ahaha not anymore! with the way bisu has been raping.
|
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
On February 05 2011 16:19 GTR wrote:
unlike sc2, bw players get appearance fees (players actually went on strike in 2003 to get these).
SC2 players do get paid salaries...
On February 01 2011 14:10 JunkkaGom wrote:
I just don't see why people make so much fuss about the prize pool. Sure, the money for 1st place is half the open season and runner up recieved 2/3 of the money in open season. BUT the prize pool for Ro16~32 has gone up considerably. Also Code S players get paid salary regardless of their result. We do not cut prize pool because of our budget, as all prize money comes from sponsors.
Overall if you combine Code A and Code S the total prize pool is pretty much the same as Open seasons.
this is a quote of one of the GOM staff members(John).
Obviously anyone would expect Bacchus to not have a high prize pool.
|
Canada8031 Posts
On February 05 2011 16:51 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2011 16:19 GTR wrote:
unlike sc2, bw players get appearance fees (players actually went on strike in 2003 to get these). SC2 players do get paid salaries...
I'm not completely sure, but I think the appearance fees GTR is talking about is different from a salary. To my understanding, you'd get paid your base salary no matter what, and for each appearance you make in a PL game, you'd earn a small bonus on top of your regular salary.
|
Wow interesting. Is it a secret as to how much (the salaries for sc2 players from GOM)?
|
On February 05 2011 16:33 samachking wrote:
Edit: Bisu also has a pretty decent salary for PL alone, but he isnt winning many tourneys. The top players make a decent amount of money, however it goes down logarithmically from there, there is no reason for JD/Flash to switch, but there are plenty of reasons for the average A-teamer to.
If every A-Teamer switch i hardly doubt they will get more money. Only the Code-S player have chance of good money.
|
Isn't it like 500 bucks lol. For code s. I'm pretty sure flash makes a million. For any kind of celebrity bonus and endorsement is order of magnitude more than base salary.
|
On February 05 2011 16:59 Quarz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2011 16:33 samachking wrote:
Edit: Bisu also has a pretty decent salary for PL alone, but he isnt winning many tourneys. The top players make a decent amount of money, however it goes down logarithmically from there, there is no reason for JD/Flash to switch, but there are plenty of reasons for the average A-teamer to. If every A-Teamer switch i hardly doubt they will get more money. Only the Code-S player have chance of good money.
Well MVP was a less than 50% winrate A-teamer and he seems to have done well.
|
On February 05 2011 16:51 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2011 16:19 GTR wrote:
unlike sc2, bw players get appearance fees (players actually went on strike in 2003 to get these). SC2 players do get paid salaries... Show nested quote +On February 01 2011 14:10 JunkkaGom wrote:
I just don't see why people make so much fuss about the prize pool. Sure, the money for 1st place is half the open season and runner up recieved 2/3 of the money in open season. BUT the prize pool for Ro16~32 has gone up considerably. Also Code S players get paid salary regardless of their result. We do not cut prize pool because of our budget, as all prize money comes from sponsors.
Overall if you combine Code A and Code S the total prize pool is pretty much the same as Open seasons. this is a quote of one of the GOM staff members(John).
Obviously anyone would expect Bacchus to not have a high prize pool.
i don't think they literally get paid a salary. if you loose in the first round you make a little over 1000usd. so its kinda like a salary.
|
On February 05 2011 17:09 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2011 16:59 Quarz wrote:On February 05 2011 16:33 samachking wrote:
Edit: Bisu also has a pretty decent salary for PL alone, but he isnt winning many tourneys. The top players make a decent amount of money, however it goes down logarithmically from there, there is no reason for JD/Flash to switch, but there are plenty of reasons for the average A-teamer to. If every A-Teamer switch i hardly doubt they will get more money. Only the Code-S player have chance of good money. Well MVP was a less than 50% winrate A-teamer and he seems to have done well.
Think that depends on the person as they are different games. Julyzerg isnt doing too hot..
|
10387 Posts
On February 05 2011 17:21 theramstoss wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2011 17:09 FabledIntegral wrote:On February 05 2011 16:59 Quarz wrote:On February 05 2011 16:33 samachking wrote:
Edit: Bisu also has a pretty decent salary for PL alone, but he isnt winning many tourneys. The top players make a decent amount of money, however it goes down logarithmically from there, there is no reason for JD/Flash to switch, but there are plenty of reasons for the average A-teamer to. If every A-Teamer switch i hardly doubt they will get more money. Only the Code-S player have chance of good money. Well MVP was a less than 50% winrate A-teamer and he seems to have done well. Think that depends on the person as they are different games. Julyzerg isnt doing too hot..
MVP was the most talented progamer to make the switch, beating Flash once in a straight up game and evolving into a solid player before he switched.
July is washed up, couldn't even get a single PL appearance last year.
|
On February 05 2011 17:21 theramstoss wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2011 17:09 FabledIntegral wrote:On February 05 2011 16:59 Quarz wrote:On February 05 2011 16:33 samachking wrote:
Edit: Bisu also has a pretty decent salary for PL alone, but he isnt winning many tourneys. The top players make a decent amount of money, however it goes down logarithmically from there, there is no reason for JD/Flash to switch, but there are plenty of reasons for the average A-teamer to. If every A-Teamer switch i hardly doubt they will get more money. Only the Code-S player have chance of good money. Well MVP was a less than 50% winrate A-teamer and he seems to have done well. Think that depends on the person as they are different games. Julyzerg isnt doing too hot..
Julyzerg wasn't an A-teamer either. He had decent ZvP for a while, but sucked at everything else, and STX only sent him out a few times.
Edit: Julyzerg was also the worst zerg in his team, and he wouldnt be played over Calm/Modesty/Hero, whileas MVP was the best Woongjin Terran( Granted woongjin terrans are terrible, but at least he played in PL while it was mandatory to field terrans.)
|
On February 05 2011 17:21 theramstoss wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2011 17:09 FabledIntegral wrote:On February 05 2011 16:59 Quarz wrote:On February 05 2011 16:33 samachking wrote:
Edit: Bisu also has a pretty decent salary for PL alone, but he isnt winning many tourneys. The top players make a decent amount of money, however it goes down logarithmically from there, there is no reason for JD/Flash to switch, but there are plenty of reasons for the average A-teamer to. If every A-Teamer switch i hardly doubt they will get more money. Only the Code-S player have chance of good money. Well MVP was a less than 50% winrate A-teamer and he seems to have done well. Think that depends on the person as they are different games. Julyzerg isnt doing too hot..
JulyZerg wasn't even A-team anymore at the time of the switch, but B-team. B-team doesn't get fielded on the PL games except for rare occurrences, while A-team are regulars. MVP was a regularly on the roster for PL, I can't remember the last time JulyZerg played for STX.
|
On February 05 2011 16:51 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2011 16:19 GTR wrote:
unlike sc2, bw players get appearance fees (players actually went on strike in 2003 to get these). SC2 players do get paid salaries... Show nested quote +On February 01 2011 14:10 JunkkaGom wrote:
I just don't see why people make so much fuss about the prize pool. Sure, the money for 1st place is half the open season and runner up recieved 2/3 of the money in open season. BUT the prize pool for Ro16~32 has gone up considerably. Also Code S players get paid salary regardless of their result. We do not cut prize pool because of our budget, as all prize money comes from sponsors.
Overall if you combine Code A and Code S the total prize pool is pretty much the same as Open seasons. this is a quote of one of the GOM staff members(John).
What exactly does "salary" mean in SC2? I would need the stats on this one. No stats, no evidence.
|
I was referring to Julyzerg's talent in his prime (which I don't think you can argue against, he has a golden mouse samachking if you didn't know. He also won his last OSL in 2008, which isn't that long ago..). But I guess his status at the time of the switch matters too. But then there's people like Nestea (and also MC), who was a mediocre player then coach.
But with regards to july, the difference between people in how well it translates played a role. I remember in an intervew July said that he lost so many games in a row (9?) in public rooms in sc2 since he started.
|
On February 05 2011 17:09 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2011 16:59 Quarz wrote:On February 05 2011 16:33 samachking wrote:
Edit: Bisu also has a pretty decent salary for PL alone, but he isnt winning many tourneys. The top players make a decent amount of money, however it goes down logarithmically from there, there is no reason for JD/Flash to switch, but there are plenty of reasons for the average A-teamer to. If every A-Teamer switch i hardly doubt they will get more money. Only the Code-S player have chance of good money. Well MVP was a less than 50% winrate A-teamer and he seems to have done well.
I mean, if 15 A-Teamers switch, then there is the same prize money, so if more switch the competition gets tighter and some will lose. MVP is lucky that he is the only notable A-Teamer that have switched.
|
|
|
On February 05 2011 18:18 theramstoss wrote:
I was referring to Julyzerg's talent in his prime (which I don't think you can argue against, he has a golden mouse samachking if you didn't know. He also won his last OSL in 2008, which isn't that long ago..). But I guess his status at the time of the switch matters too. But then there's people like Nestea (and also MC), who was a mediocre player then coach.
But with regards to july, the difference between people in how well it translates played a role. I remember in an intervew July said that he lost so many games in a row (9?) in public rooms in sc2 since he started.
His OSL run was a fluke, he had BO wins in the ro36, played well in his ZvZ group, got the 3 worst PvZ players of all time who somehow fluked their way into the ro8/ro4/finals, I'm talking about you Backho and Rock. I cannot deny his talent in his prime, but current performance and status before that matters, and his last stand was his last performance in the 3rd season of GOM, he played a strong series vs Flash where Flash turned into a god in 2009. He wasn't a bad player, just not good enough to be fielded as a player with 3 better zergs in his team.
Edit: Anyways, this is off topic, sorry for derailing the topic.
|
On February 05 2011 16:36 theramstoss wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2011 16:18 aru wrote:On February 05 2011 16:08 theramstoss wrote:
I think the best players make around 300k (flash etc), especially counting all endorsements and individual leagues (I dont think it's at a million). But that still doesnt compare to sc2 right now, imagine if a bonjwa emerged, he could potentially win 10 out of the 12 tourneys as they dont overlap with each other, which would amount to like a million. Flash is rumoured to make 300k salary with performance bonuses. Individual leagues and endorsements probably get him much more. Also, GSL lowered the prize money of their "regular" tournaments to 50m won and they don't even have 12 GSLs a year anymore. Can you link me to where it says they will have less than 12 GSL's a year?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=190136
|
On February 05 2011 18:46 aru wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2011 16:36 theramstoss wrote:On February 05 2011 16:18 aru wrote:On February 05 2011 16:08 theramstoss wrote:
I think the best players make around 300k (flash etc), especially counting all endorsements and individual leagues (I dont think it's at a million). But that still doesnt compare to sc2 right now, imagine if a bonjwa emerged, he could potentially win 10 out of the 12 tourneys as they dont overlap with each other, which would amount to like a million. Flash is rumoured to make 300k salary with performance bonuses. Individual leagues and endorsements probably get him much more. Also, GSL lowered the prize money of their "regular" tournaments to 50m won and they don't even have 12 GSLs a year anymore. Can you link me to where it says they will have less than 12 GSL's a year? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=190136
wow.. so that's pretty much the same as sc1 now, except minus the team salaries.
|
On February 05 2011 18:52 theramstoss wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2011 18:46 aru wrote:On February 05 2011 16:36 theramstoss wrote:On February 05 2011 16:18 aru wrote:On February 05 2011 16:08 theramstoss wrote:
I think the best players make around 300k (flash etc), especially counting all endorsements and individual leagues (I dont think it's at a million). But that still doesnt compare to sc2 right now, imagine if a bonjwa emerged, he could potentially win 10 out of the 12 tourneys as they dont overlap with each other, which would amount to like a million. Flash is rumoured to make 300k salary with performance bonuses. Individual leagues and endorsements probably get him much more. Also, GSL lowered the prize money of their "regular" tournaments to 50m won and they don't even have 12 GSLs a year anymore. Can you link me to where it says they will have less than 12 GSL's a year? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=190136 wow.. so that's pretty much the same as sc1 now, except minus the team salaries.
quite impressing to me considering they started sc2 stuff about 6 months ago.
|
On February 05 2011 18:32 samachking wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2011 18:18 theramstoss wrote:
I was referring to Julyzerg's talent in his prime (which I don't think you can argue against, he has a golden mouse samachking if you didn't know. He also won his last OSL in 2008, which isn't that long ago..). But I guess his status at the time of the switch matters too. But then there's people like Nestea (and also MC), who was a mediocre player then coach.
But with regards to july, the difference between people in how well it translates played a role. I remember in an intervew July said that he lost so many games in a row (9?) in public rooms in sc2 since he started. His OSL run was a fluke, he had BO wins in the ro36, played well in his ZvZ group, got the 3 worst PvZ players of all time who somehow fluked their way into the ro8/ro4/finals, I'm talking about you Backho and Rock. I cannot deny his talent in his prime, but current performance and status before that matters, and his last stand was his last performance in the 3rd season of GOM, he played a strong series vs Flash where Flash turned into a god in 2009. He wasn't a bad player, just not good enough to be fielded as a player with 3 better zergs in his team. Edit: Anyways, this is off topic, sorry for derailing the topic.
On the contrary, he secured massive massive advantages with all-ins vs Flash which succeeded and put him MILES ahead, and somehow still managed to lose 0-3.
|
On February 05 2011 18:52 theramstoss wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2011 18:46 aru wrote:On February 05 2011 16:36 theramstoss wrote:On February 05 2011 16:18 aru wrote:On February 05 2011 16:08 theramstoss wrote:
I think the best players make around 300k (flash etc), especially counting all endorsements and individual leagues (I dont think it's at a million). But that still doesnt compare to sc2 right now, imagine if a bonjwa emerged, he could potentially win 10 out of the 12 tourneys as they dont overlap with each other, which would amount to like a million. Flash is rumoured to make 300k salary with performance bonuses. Individual leagues and endorsements probably get him much more. Also, GSL lowered the prize money of their "regular" tournaments to 50m won and they don't even have 12 GSLs a year anymore. Can you link me to where it says they will have less than 12 GSL's a year? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=190136 wow.. so that's pretty much the same as sc1 now, except minus the team salaries.
And minus real team competition (GSTL is nothing compared to PL).
And minus teams being sponsored by actually large companies.
And minus salaries for every professional player.
And minus Korean fan support (compare GSL4 finals crowd to OSL finals crowd - here).
And minus better opportunities for lower level pro's to play (Dream league, random PL appearances, OSL/MSL qualifiers, etc).
And minus several dozen professional games being played each week.
And minus open, freely available replays of every pro game.
And minus a decade long history of fantastic tournaments, rivalries, goofs, human interest stories, and everything else you'd expect from an actually successful sport.
And minus being live broadcast on two different TV channels.
And minus being the most successful esport in history.
And minus Bunkie.
You've got a long way to go.
|
you mean VODs, not replays.
|
On February 05 2011 19:43 deafhobbit wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2011 18:52 theramstoss wrote:On February 05 2011 18:46 aru wrote:On February 05 2011 16:36 theramstoss wrote:On February 05 2011 16:18 aru wrote:On February 05 2011 16:08 theramstoss wrote:
I think the best players make around 300k (flash etc), especially counting all endorsements and individual leagues (I dont think it's at a million). But that still doesnt compare to sc2 right now, imagine if a bonjwa emerged, he could potentially win 10 out of the 12 tourneys as they dont overlap with each other, which would amount to like a million. Flash is rumoured to make 300k salary with performance bonuses. Individual leagues and endorsements probably get him much more. Also, GSL lowered the prize money of their "regular" tournaments to 50m won and they don't even have 12 GSLs a year anymore. Can you link me to where it says they will have less than 12 GSL's a year? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=190136 wow.. so that's pretty much the same as sc1 now, except minus the team salaries. And minus real team competition (GSTL is nothing compared to PL). And minus teams being sponsored by actually large companies. And minus salaries for every professional player. And minus Korean fan support (compare GSL4 finals crowd to OSL finals crowd - here). And minus better opportunities for lower level pro's to play (Dream league, random PL appearances, OSL/MSL qualifiers, etc). And minus several dozen professional games being played each week. And minus open, freely available replays of every pro game. And minus a decade long history of fantastic tournaments, rivalries, goofs, human interest stories, and everything else you'd expect from an actually successful sport. And minus being live broadcast on two different TV channels. And minus being the most successful esport in history. And minus Bunkie. You've got a long way to go.
Uh saying it's "real team" competition is kinda meaningless. It's still team vs team, one is just more prominent. Every professional player does not have a salary I don't believe. It's just free rent. Maybe some food? Lower levels of play have much more opportunity on the international scene than BW does as well, significantly more, no comparison. OSL/MSL qualifiers is irrelevant... GSL has qualifiers too... and when GSL is running there are often just as many if not more games than BW. You are wrong about having open, freely available replays as well, there aren't. The VODs of proleague and stuff are illegal I believe, (jon747 etc), which is why they were taken down from youtube. It's not like you can't find GSL games easily illegally either, I watched all 3 of the first seasons free. Being the "most successful esport in history" isn't a valid argument.
They do have Bunkie though.
|
On February 05 2011 20:38 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2011 19:43 deafhobbit wrote:On February 05 2011 18:52 theramstoss wrote:On February 05 2011 18:46 aru wrote:On February 05 2011 16:36 theramstoss wrote:On February 05 2011 16:18 aru wrote:On February 05 2011 16:08 theramstoss wrote:
I think the best players make around 300k (flash etc), especially counting all endorsements and individual leagues (I dont think it's at a million). But that still doesnt compare to sc2 right now, imagine if a bonjwa emerged, he could potentially win 10 out of the 12 tourneys as they dont overlap with each other, which would amount to like a million. Flash is rumoured to make 300k salary with performance bonuses. Individual leagues and endorsements probably get him much more. Also, GSL lowered the prize money of their "regular" tournaments to 50m won and they don't even have 12 GSLs a year anymore. Can you link me to where it says they will have less than 12 GSL's a year? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=190136 wow.. so that's pretty much the same as sc1 now, except minus the team salaries. And minus real team competition (GSTL is nothing compared to PL). And minus teams being sponsored by actually large companies. And minus salaries for every professional player. And minus Korean fan support (compare GSL4 finals crowd to OSL finals crowd - here). And minus better opportunities for lower level pro's to play (Dream league, random PL appearances, OSL/MSL qualifiers, etc). And minus several dozen professional games being played each week. And minus open, freely available replays of every pro game. And minus a decade long history of fantastic tournaments, rivalries, goofs, human interest stories, and everything else you'd expect from an actually successful sport. And minus being live broadcast on two different TV channels. And minus being the most successful esport in history. And minus Bunkie. You've got a long way to go. Uh saying it's "real team" competition is kinda meaningless. It's still team vs team, one is just more prominent. Every professional player does not have a salary I don't believe. It's just free rent. Maybe some food? Lower levels of play have much more opportunity on the international scene than BW does as well, significantly more, no comparison. OSL/MSL qualifiers is irrelevant... GSL has qualifiers too... and when GSL is running there are often just as many if not more games than BW. You are wrong about having open, freely available replays as well, there aren't. The VODs of proleague and stuff are illegal I believe, (jon747 etc), which is why they were taken down from youtube. It's not like you can't find GSL games easily illegally either, I watched all 3 of the first seasons free. Being the "most successful esport in history" isn't a valid argument. They do have Bunkie though.
IRRC Nevake is TL's official BWvod channel. TL is smater than to be involved with illegal activities. Jon747 was terminated due to mutiple complaints made by WCG and possibly Sony.
|
On February 05 2011 20:38 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2011 19:43 deafhobbit wrote:On February 05 2011 18:52 theramstoss wrote:On February 05 2011 18:46 aru wrote:On February 05 2011 16:36 theramstoss wrote:On February 05 2011 16:18 aru wrote:On February 05 2011 16:08 theramstoss wrote:
I think the best players make around 300k (flash etc), especially counting all endorsements and individual leagues (I dont think it's at a million). But that still doesnt compare to sc2 right now, imagine if a bonjwa emerged, he could potentially win 10 out of the 12 tourneys as they dont overlap with each other, which would amount to like a million. Flash is rumoured to make 300k salary with performance bonuses. Individual leagues and endorsements probably get him much more. Also, GSL lowered the prize money of their "regular" tournaments to 50m won and they don't even have 12 GSLs a year anymore. Can you link me to where it says they will have less than 12 GSL's a year? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=190136 wow.. so that's pretty much the same as sc1 now, except minus the team salaries. And minus real team competition (GSTL is nothing compared to PL). And minus teams being sponsored by actually large companies. And minus salaries for every professional player. And minus Korean fan support (compare GSL4 finals crowd to OSL finals crowd - here). And minus better opportunities for lower level pro's to play (Dream league, random PL appearances, OSL/MSL qualifiers, etc). And minus several dozen professional games being played each week. And minus open, freely available replays of every pro game. And minus a decade long history of fantastic tournaments, rivalries, goofs, human interest stories, and everything else you'd expect from an actually successful sport. And minus being live broadcast on two different TV channels. And minus being the most successful esport in history. And minus Bunkie. You've got a long way to go. Uh saying it's "real team" competition is kinda meaningless. It's still team vs team, one is just more prominent. Every professional player does not have a salary I don't believe. It's just free rent. Maybe some food? Lower levels of play have much more opportunity on the international scene than BW does as well, significantly more, no comparison. OSL/MSL qualifiers is irrelevant... GSL has qualifiers too... and when GSL is running there are often just as many if not more games than BW. You are wrong about having open, freely available replays as well, there aren't. The VODs of proleague and stuff are illegal I believe, (jon747 etc), which is why they were taken down from youtube. It's not like you can't find GSL games easily illegally either, I watched all 3 of the first seasons free. Being the "most successful esport in history" isn't a valid argument. They do have Bunkie though.
You're misinformed. BW VODs are not illegal. OGN's official stream is even free.
|
On February 05 2011 20:55 Ryo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2011 20:38 FabledIntegral wrote:On February 05 2011 19:43 deafhobbit wrote:On February 05 2011 18:52 theramstoss wrote:On February 05 2011 18:46 aru wrote:On February 05 2011 16:36 theramstoss wrote:On February 05 2011 16:18 aru wrote:On February 05 2011 16:08 theramstoss wrote:
I think the best players make around 300k (flash etc), especially counting all endorsements and individual leagues (I dont think it's at a million). But that still doesnt compare to sc2 right now, imagine if a bonjwa emerged, he could potentially win 10 out of the 12 tourneys as they dont overlap with each other, which would amount to like a million. Flash is rumoured to make 300k salary with performance bonuses. Individual leagues and endorsements probably get him much more. Also, GSL lowered the prize money of their "regular" tournaments to 50m won and they don't even have 12 GSLs a year anymore. Can you link me to where it says they will have less than 12 GSL's a year? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=190136 wow.. so that's pretty much the same as sc1 now, except minus the team salaries. And minus real team competition (GSTL is nothing compared to PL). And minus teams being sponsored by actually large companies. And minus salaries for every professional player. And minus Korean fan support (compare GSL4 finals crowd to OSL finals crowd - here). And minus better opportunities for lower level pro's to play (Dream league, random PL appearances, OSL/MSL qualifiers, etc). And minus several dozen professional games being played each week. And minus open, freely available replays of every pro game. And minus a decade long history of fantastic tournaments, rivalries, goofs, human interest stories, and everything else you'd expect from an actually successful sport. And minus being live broadcast on two different TV channels. And minus being the most successful esport in history. And minus Bunkie. You've got a long way to go. Uh saying it's "real team" competition is kinda meaningless. It's still team vs team, one is just more prominent. Every professional player does not have a salary I don't believe. It's just free rent. Maybe some food? Lower levels of play have much more opportunity on the international scene than BW does as well, significantly more, no comparison. OSL/MSL qualifiers is irrelevant... GSL has qualifiers too... and when GSL is running there are often just as many if not more games than BW. You are wrong about having open, freely available replays as well, there aren't. The VODs of proleague and stuff are illegal I believe, (jon747 etc), which is why they were taken down from youtube. It's not like you can't find GSL games easily illegally either, I watched all 3 of the first seasons free. Being the "most successful esport in history" isn't a valid argument. They do have Bunkie though. You're misinformed. BW VODs are not illegal. OGN's official stream is even free.
oopsies.
|
On February 05 2011 20:48 ShadeR wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2011 20:38 FabledIntegral wrote:On February 05 2011 19:43 deafhobbit wrote:On February 05 2011 18:52 theramstoss wrote:On February 05 2011 18:46 aru wrote:On February 05 2011 16:36 theramstoss wrote:On February 05 2011 16:18 aru wrote:On February 05 2011 16:08 theramstoss wrote:
I think the best players make around 300k (flash etc), especially counting all endorsements and individual leagues (I dont think it's at a million). But that still doesnt compare to sc2 right now, imagine if a bonjwa emerged, he could potentially win 10 out of the 12 tourneys as they dont overlap with each other, which would amount to like a million. Flash is rumoured to make 300k salary with performance bonuses. Individual leagues and endorsements probably get him much more. Also, GSL lowered the prize money of their "regular" tournaments to 50m won and they don't even have 12 GSLs a year anymore. Can you link me to where it says they will have less than 12 GSL's a year? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=190136 wow.. so that's pretty much the same as sc1 now, except minus the team salaries. And minus real team competition (GSTL is nothing compared to PL). And minus teams being sponsored by actually large companies. And minus salaries for every professional player. And minus Korean fan support (compare GSL4 finals crowd to OSL finals crowd - here). And minus better opportunities for lower level pro's to play (Dream league, random PL appearances, OSL/MSL qualifiers, etc). And minus several dozen professional games being played each week. And minus open, freely available replays of every pro game. And minus a decade long history of fantastic tournaments, rivalries, goofs, human interest stories, and everything else you'd expect from an actually successful sport. And minus being live broadcast on two different TV channels. And minus being the most successful esport in history. And minus Bunkie. You've got a long way to go. Uh saying it's "real team" competition is kinda meaningless. It's still team vs team, one is just more prominent. Every professional player does not have a salary I don't believe. It's just free rent. Maybe some food? Lower levels of play have much more opportunity on the international scene than BW does as well, significantly more, no comparison. OSL/MSL qualifiers is irrelevant... GSL has qualifiers too... and when GSL is running there are often just as many if not more games than BW. You are wrong about having open, freely available replays as well, there aren't. The VODs of proleague and stuff are illegal I believe, (jon747 etc), which is why they were taken down from youtube. It's not like you can't find GSL games easily illegally either, I watched all 3 of the first seasons free. Being the "most successful esport in history" isn't a valid argument. They do have Bunkie though. IRRC Nevake is TL's official BWvod channel. TL is smater than to be involved with illegal activities. Jon747 was terminated due to mutiple complaints made by WCG and possibly Sony.
The unofficial story is two complaints by Gretech and one by WCG. No one really knows since Baezzi ~disappeared~.
|
On February 05 2011 20:38 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2011 19:43 deafhobbit wrote:On February 05 2011 18:52 theramstoss wrote:On February 05 2011 18:46 aru wrote:On February 05 2011 16:36 theramstoss wrote:On February 05 2011 16:18 aru wrote:On February 05 2011 16:08 theramstoss wrote:
I think the best players make around 300k (flash etc), especially counting all endorsements and individual leagues (I dont think it's at a million). But that still doesnt compare to sc2 right now, imagine if a bonjwa emerged, he could potentially win 10 out of the 12 tourneys as they dont overlap with each other, which would amount to like a million. Flash is rumoured to make 300k salary with performance bonuses. Individual leagues and endorsements probably get him much more. Also, GSL lowered the prize money of their "regular" tournaments to 50m won and they don't even have 12 GSLs a year anymore. Can you link me to where it says they will have less than 12 GSL's a year? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=190136 wow.. so that's pretty much the same as sc1 now, except minus the team salaries. And minus real team competition (GSTL is nothing compared to PL). And minus teams being sponsored by actually large companies. And minus salaries for every professional player. And minus Korean fan support (compare GSL4 finals crowd to OSL finals crowd - here). And minus better opportunities for lower level pro's to play (Dream league, random PL appearances, OSL/MSL qualifiers, etc). And minus several dozen professional games being played each week. And minus open, freely available replays of every pro game. And minus a decade long history of fantastic tournaments, rivalries, goofs, human interest stories, and everything else you'd expect from an actually successful sport. And minus being live broadcast on two different TV channels. And minus being the most successful esport in history. And minus Bunkie. You've got a long way to go. Uh saying it's "real team" competition is kinda meaningless. It's still team vs team, one is just more prominent. Every professional player does not have a salary I don't believe. It's just free rent. Maybe some food? Lower levels of play have much more opportunity on the international scene than BW does as well, significantly more, no comparison. OSL/MSL qualifiers is irrelevant... GSL has qualifiers too... and when GSL is running there are often just as many if not more games than BW. You are wrong about having open, freely available replays as well, there aren't. The VODs of proleague and stuff are illegal I believe, (jon747 etc), which is why they were taken down from youtube. It's not like you can't find GSL games easily illegally either, I watched all 3 of the first seasons free. Being the "most successful esport in history" isn't a valid argument. They do have Bunkie though.
Team Competition - One is a year long competition, broadcast on multiple television networks, that draws tens of thousands of people to the finals. The other is less than a month long. They're not in the same league.
Salaries - To my knowledge, at least all A teamers are paid, and you are the first person I've ever heard suggest this wasn't the case. Evidence is obviously needed, but given the size of the sponsors involved in BW i'd be very suppressed if all players didn't at least earn something.
Lower Level Play - Note my terminology - "lower level pro's." Pro = professional = someone who does this for a living. International sc2 competitions don't count as professional play because the vast majority of people in them aren't truly professional players. Also, why are qualifiers irrelevant? They require a pro gaming license, are KESPA official tournaments, and can result in one gaining entrance to the tournament proper.
GSL having more games - Bullshit, maybe you should try looking things up before making claims like this. I just took a few minutes and added up the number of scheduled games (which is a better long term metric for comparing them than number played) for all GSL events in January, and compared it to OSL/MSL/WL. Here are the results.
GSL - 34 events, 246 games
OSL/MSL/WL - 48 events, 316 games.
I may very well have missed a few, but i doubt they would make up a 70 game deficit. Turns out, Proleague every week adds up.
VOD's - Jon747 got taken down for WCG replays, not Korean scene ones. Re-uploading Kespa replays is 100% legal.
Most Successful Esport - Why not? Name me one other esport that has even come close to having the popular appeal of BW in Korea. You can't, because there hasn't been one. You can talk all you want about GSL viewship numbers, but the fact of the matter is that most those people are people like us - nerds who are really into gaming and who like to watch people play well. BW is Korea is different, large portions of it's fanbase are not gamers and follow it like they would follow any other sport.
And yes, it does have Bunkie.
|
For me it's simple :
OSL/MSL/PL :
Everyone gets salary + free gaming condition (house, food, machines) + secured job.
Tournament winners get lesser money + high salary + bonus
GSL :
Tournament winners get more money.
Really, the "winner wins it all" approach sucks since it shows that the tournament organizers are incapable of covering for every professional players, if OSL/MSL/PL just cancel progaming house and salaries their price money will get higher than the GSL, but it will just destroy the scene. Also, the winners of BW tournament are guarantied to have high salary and bonus in addition to the price money that will put them ahead of the GSL winner in term of yearly income, unless the GSL guy wins more than 3 titles a year (which seems not realistic).
|
On February 05 2011 16:51 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2011 16:19 GTR wrote:
unlike sc2, bw players get appearance fees (players actually went on strike in 2003 to get these). SC2 players do get paid salaries... Show nested quote +On February 01 2011 14:10 JunkkaGom wrote:
I just don't see why people make so much fuss about the prize pool. Sure, the money for 1st place is half the open season and runner up recieved 2/3 of the money in open season. BUT the prize pool for Ro16~32 has gone up considerably. Also Code S players get paid salary regardless of their result. We do not cut prize pool because of our budget, as all prize money comes from sponsors.
Overall if you combine Code A and Code S the total prize pool is pretty much the same as Open seasons. this is a quote of one of the GOM staff members(John).
Obviously anyone would expect Bacchus to not have a high prize pool.
It is obvious that in GSL one of the main "sponsors" is Blizzard, when you make negotiations for sponsoring a broadcasting, the broadcaster shows the figures and put the price of that sponsorship according to the exposure that the sponsor product should get, there is no way that in a real market you could get more money from sponsors for a GSL than for an OSL or MSL, it is simple: if your product is in a program with better ratings you got to pay more, and theres not doubt that GSL online ratings are not comparable to OSL and MSL ratings.
|
On February 05 2011 22:43 palexhur wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2011 16:51 BLinD-RawR wrote:On February 05 2011 16:19 GTR wrote:
unlike sc2, bw players get appearance fees (players actually went on strike in 2003 to get these). SC2 players do get paid salaries... On February 01 2011 14:10 JunkkaGom wrote:
I just don't see why people make so much fuss about the prize pool. Sure, the money for 1st place is half the open season and runner up recieved 2/3 of the money in open season. BUT the prize pool for Ro16~32 has gone up considerably. Also Code S players get paid salary regardless of their result. We do not cut prize pool because of our budget, as all prize money comes from sponsors.
Overall if you combine Code A and Code S the total prize pool is pretty much the same as Open seasons. this is a quote of one of the GOM staff members(John).
Obviously anyone would expect Bacchus to not have a high prize pool. It is obvious that in GSL one of the main "sponsors" is Blizzard, when you make negotiations for sponsoring a broadcasting, the broadcaster shows the figures and put the price of that sponsorship according to the exposure that the sponsor product should get, there is no way that in a real market you could get more money from sponsors for a GSL than for an OSL or MSL, it is simple: if your product is in a program with better ratings you got to pay more, and theres not doubt that GSL online ratings are not comparable to OSL and MSL ratings.
Could you point me to the evidence?
edit: wait, I realized you are saying OSL/MSL ratings are way higher, which I agree. No evidence needed.
|
I can't believe people are discussing whether or not GSL is better/worse than OSL/MSL/PL.
Ratings of BW is just better than GSL there's no denying it. However GSL has the potential to become greater than BW simply put because of the scene outside Korea. BW outside Korea is dead as much as BW fans hate this. SC2 hasn't gotten off yet in Korea but outside Korea you see the prizepools and tournaments rising up and this shows the potential that sc2 could bring.
Furthermore GSL is planning to extend their tournaments to the foreign scene according to John. This means it'll take a (few) year(s) but that's still faster than what BW did in Korea. Afaik last year in Shanghai was the first time ever that a Starleague finals (think it was OSL) held outside Korea.
GSL has already made plans to do this in less than a year of release.
So in summary:
- BW has better ratings than GSL
- BW has an established scene compared to GSL
- BW scene is pretty much dead outside Korea
- SC2 hasn't gotten off yet in Korea BUT outside Korea it's still blooming and growing
- SC2 foreign viewers on GSL is higher than in foreign viewers on BW
- SC2 is less than a year old while BW is already 10+ years old.
- BW pro's get on average paid more than SC2 pro's
- BW has less prize money than GSL
- BW has 2 tv channels broadcasting BW while GSL not (1 for recap I think?).
So you see there are good and bad sides on both sides but currently BW in Korea is just better for sponsors than SC2 in Korea for now while outside SC2 is better for sponsors than BW does.
|
On February 05 2011 19:03 jacen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2011 18:52 theramstoss wrote:On February 05 2011 18:46 aru wrote:On February 05 2011 16:36 theramstoss wrote:On February 05 2011 16:18 aru wrote:On February 05 2011 16:08 theramstoss wrote:
I think the best players make around 300k (flash etc), especially counting all endorsements and individual leagues (I dont think it's at a million). But that still doesnt compare to sc2 right now, imagine if a bonjwa emerged, he could potentially win 10 out of the 12 tourneys as they dont overlap with each other, which would amount to like a million. Flash is rumoured to make 300k salary with performance bonuses. Individual leagues and endorsements probably get him much more. Also, GSL lowered the prize money of their "regular" tournaments to 50m won and they don't even have 12 GSLs a year anymore. Can you link me to where it says they will have less than 12 GSL's a year? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=190136 wow.. so that's pretty much the same as sc1 now, except minus the team salaries. quite impressing to me considering they started sc2 stuff about 6 months ago.
seems like blizzard wants to create their own osl/msl!
On February 06 2011 00:02 shannn wrote:
So you see there are good and bad sides on both sides but currently BW in Korea is just better for sponsors than SC2 in Korea for now while outside SC2 is better for sponsors than BW does.
yeah, thats what it seems like. the gsl being less popular in korea may not really matter though, considering how much more popular it is worldwide. why can't they both co-exist? the only thing sc2 really lacks at the moment is the star power that BW has with Flash/JD/Bisu.
|
actually shann, with 50000000 won for winner and 7 tourneys a year, SC2 potential earning cap is now less than sc1, with prize pool being roughly equal or slightly greater.
|
On February 06 2011 00:04 dras wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2011 19:03 jacen wrote:On February 05 2011 18:52 theramstoss wrote:On February 05 2011 18:46 aru wrote:On February 05 2011 16:36 theramstoss wrote:On February 05 2011 16:18 aru wrote:On February 05 2011 16:08 theramstoss wrote:
I think the best players make around 300k (flash etc), especially counting all endorsements and individual leagues (I dont think it's at a million). But that still doesnt compare to sc2 right now, imagine if a bonjwa emerged, he could potentially win 10 out of the 12 tourneys as they dont overlap with each other, which would amount to like a million. Flash is rumoured to make 300k salary with performance bonuses. Individual leagues and endorsements probably get him much more. Also, GSL lowered the prize money of their "regular" tournaments to 50m won and they don't even have 12 GSLs a year anymore. Can you link me to where it says they will have less than 12 GSL's a year? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=190136 wow.. so that's pretty much the same as sc1 now, except minus the team salaries. quite impressing to me considering they started sc2 stuff about 6 months ago. seems like blizzard wants to create their own osl/msl! Show nested quote +On February 06 2011 00:02 shannn wrote:
So you see there are good and bad sides on both sides but currently BW in Korea is just better for sponsors than SC2 in Korea for now while outside SC2 is better for sponsors than BW does. yeah, thats what it seems like. the gsl being less popular in korea may not really matter though, considering how much more popular it is worldwide. why can't they both co-exist? the only thing sc2 really lacks at the moment is the star power that BW has with Flash/JD/Bisu.
And Stork!! It's Taek bang lee ssang, not taek lee ssang.
|
On February 06 2011 00:10 theramstoss wrote:
actually shann, with 50000000 won for winner and 7 tourneys a year, SC2 potential earning cap is now less than sc1, with prize pool being roughly equal or slightly greater.
You're mistaken a bit.
The 7 tourney's a year is just 7 GSL Code S/A leagues.
There is also the Blizzard Cup, the Super tournament and some others all organised by GSL.
It comes down to 11-12 events a year with the prize pool being rougly equal of each event except the Super tournament which is the same as the GSL Open (100m won for 1st place).
Edit:
Here I found it on the link on previous pages.
7 GSL code S and A tournaments
1 GSTL after code S and A tournaments (let's just make it 1 since each GSTL is 1 week).
1 Super tournament
1 World championship
1 Blizzard cup
So it's 10 or 11 events depending if you count all GSTL as 1 big event. All with a similar prize pool.
|
AH, this is exactly why I still love BW Forum, because even though the discussion has evolved past the initial OP (prize-money -> progamer' salaries) we can still be civil and level-headed enough to not spam with extra threads or get this one closed. GJ guyz 
Anyone have any statistics on what B-Teamers get paid? And for the OSL/MSL champions (+WCG) do the players themselves get ALL THAT MONEY, or is it distributed to team/sponsor?
|
1019 Posts
you guys better stop riding close to the BW vs SC2, this thread will get locked if you go down that path. I believe players in BW get a stipend (both A-team and B-team) in addition to the room/board. Unless your an above average player and make it consistently into individual leagues, get bonuses, or make appearance fees, its difficult to become financially successful as a progamer. But keep in mind that the standard of living is still lower in Korea than western countries so the amount of money that the average progamer makes might well be good enough for them considering that they didn't even go to college yet.
|
On February 05 2011 21:20 deafhobbit wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2011 20:38 FabledIntegral wrote:On February 05 2011 19:43 deafhobbit wrote:On February 05 2011 18:52 theramstoss wrote:On February 05 2011 18:46 aru wrote:On February 05 2011 16:36 theramstoss wrote:On February 05 2011 16:18 aru wrote:On February 05 2011 16:08 theramstoss wrote:
I think the best players make around 300k (flash etc), especially counting all endorsements and individual leagues (I dont think it's at a million). But that still doesnt compare to sc2 right now, imagine if a bonjwa emerged, he could potentially win 10 out of the 12 tourneys as they dont overlap with each other, which would amount to like a million. Flash is rumoured to make 300k salary with performance bonuses. Individual leagues and endorsements probably get him much more. Also, GSL lowered the prize money of their "regular" tournaments to 50m won and they don't even have 12 GSLs a year anymore. Can you link me to where it says they will have less than 12 GSL's a year? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=190136 wow.. so that's pretty much the same as sc1 now, except minus the team salaries. And minus real team competition (GSTL is nothing compared to PL). And minus teams being sponsored by actually large companies. And minus salaries for every professional player. And minus Korean fan support (compare GSL4 finals crowd to OSL finals crowd - here). And minus better opportunities for lower level pro's to play (Dream league, random PL appearances, OSL/MSL qualifiers, etc). And minus several dozen professional games being played each week. And minus open, freely available replays of every pro game. And minus a decade long history of fantastic tournaments, rivalries, goofs, human interest stories, and everything else you'd expect from an actually successful sport. And minus being live broadcast on two different TV channels. And minus being the most successful esport in history. And minus Bunkie. You've got a long way to go. Uh saying it's "real team" competition is kinda meaningless. It's still team vs team, one is just more prominent. Every professional player does not have a salary I don't believe. It's just free rent. Maybe some food? Lower levels of play have much more opportunity on the international scene than BW does as well, significantly more, no comparison. OSL/MSL qualifiers is irrelevant... GSL has qualifiers too... and when GSL is running there are often just as many if not more games than BW. You are wrong about having open, freely available replays as well, there aren't. The VODs of proleague and stuff are illegal I believe, (jon747 etc), which is why they were taken down from youtube. It's not like you can't find GSL games easily illegally either, I watched all 3 of the first seasons free. Being the "most successful esport in history" isn't a valid argument. They do have Bunkie though. Team Competition - One is a year long competition, broadcast on multiple television networks, that draws tens of thousands of people to the finals. The other is less than a month long. They're not in the same league. Salaries - To my knowledge, at least all A teamers are paid, and you are the first person I've ever heard suggest this wasn't the case. Evidence is obviously needed, but given the size of the sponsors involved in BW i'd be very suppressed if all players didn't at least earn something. Lower Level Play - Note my terminology - "lower level pro's." Pro = professional = someone who does this for a living. International sc2 competitions don't count as professional play because the vast majority of people in them aren't truly professional players. Also, why are qualifiers irrelevant? They require a pro gaming license, are KESPA official tournaments, and can result in one gaining entrance to the tournament proper. GSL having more games - Bullshit, maybe you should try looking things up before making claims like this. I just took a few minutes and added up the number of scheduled games (which is a better long term metric for comparing them than number played) for all GSL events in January, and compared it to OSL/MSL/WL. Here are the results. GSL - 34 events, 246 games OSL/MSL/WL - 48 events, 316 games. I may very well have missed a few, but i doubt they would make up a 70 game deficit. Turns out, Proleague every week adds up. VOD's - Jon747 got taken down for WCG replays, not Korean scene ones. Re-uploading Kespa replays is 100% legal. Most Successful Esport - Why not? Name me one other esport that has even come close to having the popular appeal of BW in Korea. You can't, because there hasn't been one. You can talk all you want about GSL viewship numbers, but the fact of the matter is that most those people are people like us - nerds who are really into gaming and who like to watch people play well. BW is Korea is different, large portions of it's fanbase are not gamers and follow it like they would follow any other sport. And yes, it does have Bunkie.
I understand the differentiation you're trying to make, all I was trying to say was. Despite being heavily intoxicated last night when I made the posts, I think a lot still have validity.
1. Ok, I'll cede on the team competition, I think in my head I was thinking, "well, you're still seeing team vs team" from the top players.
2. B-teamers qualify as "professional players," and it's what they do as a living. It's not A-team only. For example, IdrA was considered a professional BW player, despite being on the B-team. Lots of B-teamers (and they have a C-team as well I believe!) don't get salaries, just free housing.
3. International SC2 community now doesn't count? That's a stupid distinction. SC2 has been the main source of income for a lot of players, with many having $20,000 plus amount. There is NO question that if you are a lower level player, you have a much greater chance of earning an income on the SC2 international scene than you would ANYWHERE on the BW scene. There is infinitely more opportunity for lower level play in SC2, that can't even be contested. Most of the players making large sums of money are also most likely not having significant other jobs so they can focus on earning money. People like White-ra who are older can be considered an exception, but nonetheless the point stands. For people in their 20's, it can be a sustainable source of income.
4. Concerning number of games played, sounds like a biased metric considering at most GSL typically would have had only 1 less game played at most each time, while MSL/OSL/PL all could have been shorter by 2+ games. Just saying. Either way, you were arguing exposure, and the argument is quite weak when the amount of games being broadcasted are still in the hundreds for a single month.
5. Oopsies!
6. I said nothing about even trying to say GSL or SC2 was more popular in Korea. I just said it wasn't a relevant measure of the structures of the events.
|
On February 05 2011 16:19 GTR wrote:
unlike sc2, bw players get appearance fees (players actually went on strike in 2003 to get these).
where can i read about that? thank you.
|
United States22883 Posts
Please do not make this a BW vs. SC2 shitfest. Shannn put it perfectly:
So you see there are good and bad sides on both sides but currently BW in Korea is just better for sponsors than SC2 in Korea for now while outside SC2 is better for sponsors than BW does.
You do not need to discuss the merits of one over the other. If anyone has the OSL/MSL info the OP is looking for, that'd be great.
|
of course the top sc pros get way much more money per year than the top sc2 pros do.. but if you look at the big picture, so many b teamers have left sc1 for sc2, so obviously the salaries for bw pros right now is very top heavy...
looking at the Milkis thread, i wouldnt be surprised if many A teamers in BW teams are earning less than 50K a year. and if you compare the amount of practice they have to do compared to SC2 pros, i dont think its worth it.
the top sc2 players earn a comparative amount (2K a month for Code S players plus other tournaments they may be involved along with team sponsorship salary? i know idrA gets this, dont know about the Korean players). Jinro for example has earned almost 20K in just 2 months..
|
On February 05 2011 18:46 aru wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2011 16:36 theramstoss wrote:On February 05 2011 16:18 aru wrote:On February 05 2011 16:08 theramstoss wrote:
I think the best players make around 300k (flash etc), especially counting all endorsements and individual leagues (I dont think it's at a million). But that still doesnt compare to sc2 right now, imagine if a bonjwa emerged, he could potentially win 10 out of the 12 tourneys as they dont overlap with each other, which would amount to like a million. Flash is rumoured to make 300k salary with performance bonuses. Individual leagues and endorsements probably get him much more. Also, GSL lowered the prize money of their "regular" tournaments to 50m won and they don't even have 12 GSLs a year anymore. Can you link me to where it says they will have less than 12 GSL's a year? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=190136
There will also be 6 Team League tournaments, 1 Super Tournament for about 100k USD.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=179652
|
On February 05 2011 19:03 jacen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2011 18:52 theramstoss wrote:On February 05 2011 18:46 aru wrote:On February 05 2011 16:36 theramstoss wrote:On February 05 2011 16:18 aru wrote:On February 05 2011 16:08 theramstoss wrote:
I think the best players make around 300k (flash etc), especially counting all endorsements and individual leagues (I dont think it's at a million). But that still doesnt compare to sc2 right now, imagine if a bonjwa emerged, he could potentially win 10 out of the 12 tourneys as they dont overlap with each other, which would amount to like a million. Flash is rumoured to make 300k salary with performance bonuses. Individual leagues and endorsements probably get him much more. Also, GSL lowered the prize money of their "regular" tournaments to 50m won and they don't even have 12 GSLs a year anymore. Can you link me to where it says they will have less than 12 GSL's a year? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=190136 wow.. so that's pretty much the same as sc1 now, except minus the team salaries. quite impressing to me considering they started sc2 stuff about 6 months ago.
Why is it impressive, its lacking proper proleage and they downgraded their original plans completely. Despite being a new game, being able to build on an existing proscene and having 50 million simply for marketing they somehow fucked it up.
|
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
On February 06 2011 14:34 infinity2k9 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2011 19:03 jacen wrote:On February 05 2011 18:52 theramstoss wrote:On February 05 2011 18:46 aru wrote:On February 05 2011 16:36 theramstoss wrote:On February 05 2011 16:18 aru wrote:On February 05 2011 16:08 theramstoss wrote:
I think the best players make around 300k (flash etc), especially counting all endorsements and individual leagues (I dont think it's at a million). But that still doesnt compare to sc2 right now, imagine if a bonjwa emerged, he could potentially win 10 out of the 12 tourneys as they dont overlap with each other, which would amount to like a million. Flash is rumoured to make 300k salary with performance bonuses. Individual leagues and endorsements probably get him much more. Also, GSL lowered the prize money of their "regular" tournaments to 50m won and they don't even have 12 GSLs a year anymore. Can you link me to where it says they will have less than 12 GSL's a year? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=190136 wow.. so that's pretty much the same as sc1 now, except minus the team salaries. quite impressing to me considering they started sc2 stuff about 6 months ago. Why is it impressive, its lacking proleague and they downgraded their original plans completely. Despite being a new game, being able to build on an existing proscene and having 50 million simply for marketing they somehow fucked it up.
making it any bigger than what it is would run the risk of a greater loss....They are trying to shove the right amount down their throat lol.
|
On February 06 2011 12:16 nufcrulz wrote:
of course the top sc pros get way much more money per year than the top sc2 pros do.. but if you look at the big picture, so many b teamers have left sc1 for sc2, so obviously the salaries for bw pros right now is very top heavy...
looking at the Milkis thread, i wouldnt be surprised if many A teamers in BW teams are earning less than 50K a year. and if you compare the amount of practice they have to do compared to SC2 pros, i dont think its worth it.
the top sc2 players earn a comparative amount (2K a month for Code S players plus other tournaments they may be involved along with team sponsorship salary? i know idrA gets this, dont know about the Korean players). Jinro for example has earned almost 20K in just 2 months..
Jinro earned because he was successful though? If he wasn't, how much would he have earned? I can give the same example with BW. Modesty just reached the RO4 of the MSL despite being mostly bad, i'm sure he earnt extra money because of this. But he also has his STX salary which he's been paid for however long he's been in the A-team.
|
who care the prize of both league? It's the prime honor, even in the ro36 or ro32.
|
On February 06 2011 12:16 nufcrulz wrote:
the top sc2 players earn a comparative amount (2K a month for Code S players plus other tournaments they may be involved along with team sponsorship salary? i know idrA gets this, dont know about the Korean players). Jinro for example has earned almost 20K in just 2 months..
Is that an actual salary where they are paid monthly on top of their GSL prize money or is that just the prize money for competing in Code S? And source if so.
Also, http://ehcg.djgamblore.com/ looks even more top heavy if you ask me but I guess ymmv.
On February 06 2011 12:48 KevinIX wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2011 18:46 aru wrote:On February 05 2011 16:36 theramstoss wrote:On February 05 2011 16:18 aru wrote:On February 05 2011 16:08 theramstoss wrote:
I think the best players make around 300k (flash etc), especially counting all endorsements and individual leagues (I dont think it's at a million). But that still doesnt compare to sc2 right now, imagine if a bonjwa emerged, he could potentially win 10 out of the 12 tourneys as they dont overlap with each other, which would amount to like a million. Flash is rumoured to make 300k salary with performance bonuses. Individual leagues and endorsements probably get him much more. Also, GSL lowered the prize money of their "regular" tournaments to 50m won and they don't even have 12 GSLs a year anymore. Can you link me to where it says they will have less than 12 GSL's a year? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=190136 There will also be 6 Team League tournaments, 1 Super Tournament for about 100k USD. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=179652
It says that in the thread I linked?
|
On February 06 2011 15:28 aru wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2011 12:16 nufcrulz wrote:
the top sc2 players earn a comparative amount (2K a month for Code S players plus other tournaments they may be involved along with team sponsorship salary? i know idrA gets this, dont know about the Korean players). Jinro for example has earned almost 20K in just 2 months.. Is that an actual salary where they are paid monthly on top of their GSL prize money or is that just the prize money for competing in Code S? And source if so.
code s players get that money automatically by being in the round of 32 (starting round of code s)..
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2011_Sony_Ericsson_Global_StarCraft_II_League_January#Prize_Pool
|
On February 06 2011 20:11 nufcrulz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2011 15:28 aru wrote:On February 06 2011 12:16 nufcrulz wrote:
the top sc2 players earn a comparative amount (2K a month for Code S players plus other tournaments they may be involved along with team sponsorship salary? i know idrA gets this, dont know about the Korean players). Jinro for example has earned almost 20K in just 2 months.. Is that an actual salary where they are paid monthly on top of their GSL prize money or is that just the prize money for competing in Code S? And source if so. code s players get that money automatically by being in the round of 32 (starting round of code s).. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2011_Sony_Ericsson_Global_StarCraft_II_League_January#Prize_Pool
Yes, that is called prize money.
|
On February 06 2011 00:02 shannn wrote:
I can't believe people are discussing whether or not GSL is better/worse than OSL/MSL/PL.
Ratings of BW is just better than GSL there's no denying it. However GSL has the potential to become greater than BW simply put because of the scene outside Korea. BW outside Korea is dead as much as BW fans hate this. SC2 hasn't gotten off yet in Korea but outside Korea you see the prizepools and tournaments rising up and this shows the potential that sc2 could bring.
Furthermore GSL is planning to extend their tournaments to the foreign scene according to John. This means it'll take a (few) year(s) but that's still faster than what BW did in Korea. Afaik last year in Shanghai was the first time ever that a Starleague finals (think it was OSL) held outside Korea.
GSL has already made plans to do this in less than a year of release.
So in summary:
- BW has better ratings than GSL
- BW has an established scene compared to GSL
- BW scene is pretty much dead outside Korea
- SC2 hasn't gotten off yet in Korea BUT outside Korea it's still blooming and growing
- SC2 foreign viewers on GSL is higher than in foreign viewers on BW
- SC2 is less than a year old while BW is already 10+ years old.
- BW pro's get on average paid more than SC2 pro's
- BW has less prize money than GSL
- BW has 2 tv channels broadcasting BW while GSL not (1 for recap I think?).
So you see there are good and bad sides on both sides but currently BW in Korea is just better for sponsors than SC2 in Korea for now while outside SC2 is better for sponsors than BW does.
I realise this was before anibox started broadcasting code s, but code s is now broadcast on Anibox and i think the quality of code s went up siginificantly after it started broadcasting on anibox now that GSL is on a korean channel i think the popularity of the GSL will start to grow more and more i wouldnt be suprised if there was a bigger turn out for the finals this season but i guess we will have to wait and see.
OGSMC JULY ZERG FINALS! if thats possible i forgot the brackets.
|
Canada8031 Posts
Why did you bump a month old thread titled OSL/MSL Prize Money to talk about the quality of the GSL?
|
On March 10 2011 08:59 Spazer wrote:
Why did you bump a month old thread titled OSL/MSL Prize Money to talk about the quality of the GSL?
That's just how the cheesemaster rolls. All hail the cheesemaster.
|
|
|
On March 10 2011 09:01 XsebT wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2011 08:59 Spazer wrote:
Why did you bump a month old thread titled OSL/MSL Prize Money to talk about the quality of the GSL? That's just how the cheesemaster rolls. All hail the cheesemaster.
Dude, he was so excited he didn't even have time for punctuation.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
