Daezang, Ganzi, Special, MVP, Guemchi all left Woongjin.
Daezang wanted to go into commentating. Ganzi wanted to go do his military service. Special wanted to further his education. MVP said it was too hard for him to be a progamer. Guemchi said he was tired being a progamer and wanted to go on a vacation.
you should at least translate the coach's statement or something related to that that's on the page you linked to lol
also Daezang is supposed to commentate GSL or something
anyway it looked more from Woongjin's side judging by the article, they just allowed their players to leave whoever didn't have the passion for the game anymore.
On September 18 2010 01:18 chrisSquire wrote: simple case of cost/benefit analysis.
programing is no longer as romantic an idea as it once was. prohouses are farms now. the players are finally starting to grow weary of being livestock.
On September 18 2010 01:15 sCuMBaG wrote: damn you blizzard... was that really necessary?!
LOL. Right.
Especially when they all said they don't wanna be progamers ... definitely blizzards fault.
I can totally understand why all progamers leaving - I mean all they do is sit 12 hours a day playing BW and what do they get in return? Nothing - they don't get to play in tournaments and they don't get paid much. Crazy stuff.
It really sucks that this happened but it seems to really just be coincidence not as closely related to "OH GOD BROOD WAR IS DYING" as it is "5 players who happened to be from the same team wished to leave." It doesn't seem like a "jumping ship" but more like a mix of circumstances outside of progaming (military career, burnout, etc).
The competition will be a lot better with less teams imo. There will only be good players playing for more epic matches :> The under S class players will barely play tho ;;
This is alarming. The progaming infrastructure's coming part before out eyes. The SC2 scene's still in the stone age, and from the looks of it Blizzard wants to keep it that way. If the entire Kespa system of teams and sponsers evaporates, e-sports will start back from scratch, and I seriously doubt the stars will align again to create a replacement. It makes no sense for Blizzard to piggyback on the success and popularity of pro broodwar and at the same time destroy it. The more logical course of action is to somehow transition the current e-sports system into SC2, not blow it back to pre-Boxer days. That, and I personally don't feel SC2 has enough entertainment value as a spectator sport to propel itself up like Broodwar did. But that's just my opinion....
I don't know why you are all freaking out. Crazy-Hydra, Free, hOn_sin, Kwanro, Soulkey, and Zero were the only ones who were getting any professional games last season. MVP showed up a few times but that's pretty much it. The biggest issue is probably just practice partners but I'm sure they practice with people outside of their team and they still have some other people left anyway.
This shouldn't mean the end of Stars, they still have enough talent to continue. I guess it's natural that as the uncertainty around Broodwar increased many started to look at other options.
On September 18 2010 02:05 hypercube wrote: This shouldn't mean the end of Stars, they still have enough talent to continue. I guess it's natural that as the uncertainty around Broodwar increased many started to look at other options.
Yeah, these are my thoughts also. They haven't lost anyone that they were actually sending out, unless you count the trade of Kwanro as a loss. The team you see on TV is basically the same at this point. People who had other aspirations decided to make their exit, that's all.
On September 18 2010 01:27 Misanthrope wrote: This is truly quite sad. I give BW in general 1-2 more years at max. On the upside Flash/Jaedong playing SC2 would be a site for sore eyes.
At the rate of teams disbanding, head coaches leaving, and players leaving, Pro BW may not last 6 months at this rate.
On September 18 2010 01:27 Misanthrope wrote: This is truly quite sad. I give BW in general 1-2 more years at max. On the upside Flash/Jaedong playing SC2 would be a site for sore eyes.
At the rate of teams disbanding, head coaches leaving, and players leaving, Pro BW may not last 6 months at this rate.
You know, even in good times, teams have rough patches. Internal problems happen. What we're seeing now, is some of those problems exacerbated by other circumstances- the uncertainty around the korean BW scene as a whole, progamers leaving for SC2, etc.
As has been mentioned before, we're getting a flurry of bad news for the BW scene because Fomos chose to release them all at the same time (which means they'd been holding out on releasing them, which in turn means they're not very transparent about what goes on behind the scenes). The conclusions I can draw from this flurry of activity are:
a) Some teams had internal problems. This is to be expected, really; they just waited for the postseason to resolve these problems.
b) Many players are leaving BW. This is slightly more worrying for the BW scene; you mostly just see the players on the booth, but it takes more than just them to keep the scene running. Does the BW scene have the capacity to "restock" on good players as fast as they're losing them, or will team rosters keep on thinning out? The rate BW is losing players is something to keep an eye on.
c) eSTRO's sponsor has had enough with BW. Can eSTRO, the proleague and the starleagues find new sponsors? There is no strong reason to think they won't get new sponsors- yet. But it is also something to keep an eye on.
Those are the bigger problems the BW scene is facing internally right now. Then there's also the external problems they're facing- their negotiations with Gretech.
You guys BW fans should STOP shouting "BW is dying" and post dramatic posts like "dont die BW" "oh no so sad for BW" in every BW related thread and every single news that comes out.
You are seeding the idea of BW dying into the heads of countless BW fans like me and make them feel frustrated.
The matter is simple, some recent event is bad, but it does 0.0001 damage to BW and BW will not die to anything.
BW has government support, BW has military support, BW has corporate support, BW has public support.... it is immortal, it just cannot die.
STOP shouting "BW dying" bullshit if you love BW, or else you are damaging its public support. Imagine that you have a very healthy son, and every single hours a random guy pop up and say "your son is dying", after a week you will start questioning the health state of your son.
So yeah, be optimistic and believe in BW ! It still has like 10000000 HP and 9999 mana with full gear, It cannot die or be killed. Cheers !!!
On September 18 2010 03:13 mimikami wrote: The matter is simple, some recent event is bad, but it does 0.0001 damage to BW and BW will not die to anything.
The all time winner in MSL and OSL titles leaving BW means nothing?????? Nada was offered a contract renewal and Wemade desperately tried to keep him but Nada still bolted!
On September 18 2010 03:13 mimikami wrote: The matter is simple, some recent event is bad, but it does 0.0001 damage to BW and BW will not die to anything.
The all time winner in MSL and OSL titles leaving BW means nothing?????? Nada was offered a contract renewal and Wemade desperately tried to keep him but Nada still bolted!
Yeah it accounts for 80% of the 0.0001 damage done to BW. BW still has 9999999.9999 HP.
On September 18 2010 03:13 mimikami wrote: The matter is simple, some recent event is bad, but it does 0.0001 damage to BW and BW will not die to anything.
The all time winner in MSL and OSL titles leaving BW means nothing?????? Nada was offered a contract renewal and Wemade desperately tried to keep him but Nada still bolted!
As great as NaDa's lifetime career is, he is now a washed out veteran.
He has two choices:
* Stay Pro and be a well respected PR icon, but a benchwarmer. * Go "amateur" on his own, and play.
Its pretty obvious NaDa wants to play, but he won't be able to as a BW pro. If he has enough savings, his salary doesn't mean much in the short/mid term.
NaDa's moving to SC2 is more the result of BW evolving beyond NaDa's times. He lasted a lot longer than Boxer, Oov, Nal_Ra and Savior, but time and skill level finally caught up with him.
On September 18 2010 04:03 konadora wrote: i don't get why you guys are all complaining though. most of these players hardly played at all, so it's now better that they have left.
This. Comparatively, we lost way more noteworthy players to the match-fixing scandal. Even with July and Nada (and I guess potentially BoxeR) switching over its not necessarily bad for BW at all. How often do those guys play anymore, NEVER, and they know it. They know their skills aren't up to par anymore, and the only reason they're still contracted is for their NAME-VALUE. These guys are competitors, they don't wanna sit around doing nothing. They want to compete and show their fans great games. They can no longer do that in BW so whats the problem with moving to SC2?
In the end of the day, the $$$$ is still in BW. Yeah, the GSL prize pool is impressive, but how many people are going to be able to attain that? Not many, and the disbursement is very top heavy. BW pros are still receiving salary, food, lodging, and practice facilities.
The two games can co-exist. If you still care about BW you should be supporting it even more, instead of overreacting and freaking out.
I expected the bw scene to collapse eventually, but I didnt think it wold be quite this fast. I wonder how many teams will be left in 1 year. Kinda sad, but since I dont watch/play bw anymore I hope this means sc2 will really start to take off in Korea.
BW's gonna be fine. All these posts about "aww its dying" are probably sc2 fans who want it to die and trying to ruin sc1's image, or i'm just overreacting.
I guess hon_sin will get some air time now... really will be nice to see how he turns out, same for soulkey
massive blow to Woongjin though
On September 18 2010 04:58 Eggm wrote: BW's gonna be fine. All these posts about "aww its dying" are probably sc2 fans who want it to die and trying to ruin sc1's image, or i'm just overreacting.
I think people don't realise no one left to play SC2 in those 6
eSTRo has some shit going on as well, if they just move to woongjin, then it's a power house team. let's be real, guemchi wasn't that good, and MVP sucked. They have hon_sin (who looks promising) and they STILL HAVE; free/soulkey/zero, so they are more than fine at the moment. IF they acquired estro teammates that would be amazing. [Imagine with action, Really, Flying+ this]
On September 18 2010 06:14 dRaW wrote: eSTRo has some shit going on as well, if they just move to woongjin, then it's a power house team. let's be real, guemchi wasn't that good, and MVP sucked. They have hon_sin (who looks promising) and they STILL HAVE; free/soulkey/zero, so they are more than fine at the moment. IF they acquired estro teammates that would be amazing. [Imagine with action, Really, Flying+ this]
estro, hite and woongjin are all having issues that would need to be sorted out. I don't know that team merging is the best solution but it may come to that.
This is good news. Clearly none of these players is going to win a championship, or even make it deep into leagues, so I'm not going to miss watching their games. Players of this caliber get paid so little that I congratulate them for moving on with their lives. Remember how Flash promised his parents that he'd quit pro SC if he didn't win a championship in his first year (or something along those lines)?
I only wish that more low-tier players would do this. Then, maybe teams would pay them more or work them less. If not, clearly they weren't important in the first place.
no, thought mvp had potential and guemchi, although he'd never be great, was at least a solid option. daezang was obv.
i can seriously see contraction to 10 teams for the next season. estro's more or less gone, hite's been killed by the betting scandal. it'd make sense imo to consolidate.
On September 18 2010 04:58 Eggm wrote: BW's gonna be fine. All these posts about "aww its dying" are probably sc2 fans who want it to die and trying to ruin sc1's image, or i'm just overreacting.
When was the last time SIX players from the SAME team just up and left to do other things at the SAME time? Yeah...
People can be in denial all they want about BW coming to a close, regardless strange things are currently happening with the teams and the insecurity of the future is getting to a lot of them it seems.
you guys realize that all those washed up and B-teamers watched the GSL, said HOLY SHIT I could make 86k facing off against horribad foreigners?! As opposed to having to beat monsters like JD and Flash... seriously when you do this for a living why not go for the financially secure and easier route.
If players feel that their career as a progamer isn't going anywhere, then it would be prudent to quit and work on something else. Still, quitting to go on vacation? Come on...
Me thinks that people are leaving because they believe that BW is dying so they want to get out before the shit really hits the fan...and then it becomes this self-fulfilling prophecy T_T
On September 18 2010 04:58 Eggm wrote: BW's gonna be fine. All these posts about "aww its dying" are probably sc2 fans who want it to die and trying to ruin sc1's image, or i'm just overreacting.
When was the last time SIX players from the SAME team just up and left to do other things at the SAME time? Yeah...
People can be in denial all they want about BW coming to a close, regardless strange things are currently happening with the teams and the insecurity of the future is getting to a lot of them it seems.
No reason to be fatalistic about it though. There's been a lot of stories of this kind lately, but when the best known player to leave is Guemchi, it doesn't seem like a terrible loss.
Plus, this is the off-season. I imagine there are a lot of retirements and changeovers in an ordinary off-season, but we don't hang as much importance on them usually.
Things aren't looking great, but it looks like the main players involved aren't really deterred—from our perspective, at least.
The worst thing thus far is the news about eSTRO, but that isn't unprecedented either. The Stars were just as close to disbanding a couple of years ago, but they found a new sponsor.
Wow...Woongjin was on the rise and now this....-_- More burden on free and zero now really need to step up to the plate now. Good luck to these players in their future.
I guess this is bad news, but to be honest I didn't even know these players were on Woongjin, except for MVP and Guemchi who've played a total of 2 or so proleague games all season.
On September 18 2010 11:00 Wonders wrote: I guess this is bad news, but to be honest I didn't even know these players were on Woongjin, except for MVP and Guemchi who've played a total of 2 or so proleague games all season.
Did you miss Guemchi's Winner's League Bonjwa run?
Or MVP's Ro8 MSL Debut, beating Baby, Best, Stork, Flash along the way?
On September 18 2010 11:00 Wonders wrote: I guess this is bad news, but to be honest I didn't even know these players were on Woongjin, except for MVP and Guemchi who've played a total of 2 or so proleague games all season.
Did you miss Guemchi's Winner's League Bonjwa run?
Or MVP's Ro8 MSL Debut, beating Baby, Best, Stork, Flash along the way?
I heard about Guemchi's bonjwa talks and graphs a while ago but missed MVP unfortunately.
Already saw this in another thread, but man this sucks. Two of my favorite players gone, just like that How the fuck am I supposed to randomly reappear on TL and make hype threads now?
Ganzi leaving was pretty old news, but still, it's like the only thing he achieved was his "perfect" TvZ against Jaedong.
(on the other hand, if Stars and eSTRO end up merging.... hahahahaha gg Proleague)
Two Golden Mouse holder, or Living Legend, moved to SC2, Three Legendary coaches, the livng proof of BW scene, has resigned, One proleague team's about to be disbanded, And proleague is about to become illegal organization.
And now this?
Proleague was the best e-sports league ever. We will remember you.
when did proleague start becoming as big as OSL/MSL anyway? iirc people said it used to have far lower attendance and ratings, now it's huge of course, or was...
Just catching up on all of the BW news and it's just flooring me.
I never expected the end to come around so quickly. Times change and we just need to deal with the future but I thought BW would cool off slowly and pass away. It's not like I've been part of the community and progaming following for very long but it still hurts me. I know deep down that the sequel will never replace it. Maybe some passion of SC2 will grow in me as the scene takes shape with an evolving metagame, teams forming, maps being released, and all that stuff. I kinda hope it does but my outlook isn't very positive.
Old players moving on is to be expected, either to SC2 or other things. These guys have been around for quite awhile. People are calling MVP and Guemchi retiring 'the end'?
Idle A-teamers and legends that don't play televised games aren't crippling BW by leaving. The coaches shifting is something bigger in my eyes.
So, does Woonjin have to promote like 7 people from B team or something? Cuz this really sucks major balls. Talk about shit hitting the fan ever since SC2 came out.
On September 18 2010 12:43 thopol wrote: Just catching up on all of the BW news and it's just flooring me.
I never expected the end to come around so quickly. Times change and we just need to deal with the future but I thought BW would cool off slowly and pass away. It's not like I've been part of the community and progaming following for very long but it still hurts me. I know deep down that the sequel will never replace it. Maybe some passion of SC2 will grow in me as the scene takes shape with an evolving metagame, teams forming, maps being released, and all that stuff. I kinda hope it does but my outlook isn't very positive.
All teams are still alive and have a coach (eStro could be either disbanded or sold, no one knows yet).
99% of A-Teamers are still there, having a good off-season time and planning to practice hard for the next one.
Lots of B-Teamers are still there and Courage still attracts as many players as ever (GTR's post somewhere).
I'm not saying BW is doing great, tbh this is easily the most depressing offseason that's ever happened. But until either fans stop showing up at events, or Proleague/OSL/MSL are actually announced to be terminated (which would be highly likely to be related to Gretech's demands), it won't be "the end" by any means.
ouch...I hate to see all of this just hit the fan so suddenly. If Kespa wasn't nervous before they should damn well be now. eSTRO is near death, and well Wooogjin is pretty much dead. wow.
way to go Blizzard and Kespa. seriously. look at the damage you guys caused.
i don't see why everyone is blaming Blizzard/KeSPA for this.
these players left because they weren't interested in playing for BW anymore, which would have come sooner or later, given their performances and/or exposure in proleague and individual leagues. It just accelerated things up for them, which means they can try to settle back into their former "normal" life quicker (which is better, obviously). not because Blizzard or KeSPA pointed a gun at their heads and forced them to retire.
I think it should be added that fOru had a coaching position in CJ and officially retired as a player coach this june in his game vs Jaedong. The others are no-names, except for thezerg who was horrible anyways since when he left mbc.
ZerO, free, soulkey, and piano + whoever they draft from estro, assuming they don't find a buyer, should still be a solid lineup. Hon_sin looked pretty good in stx masters too. We'll probably be screwed for the playoffs though w/o guemchi or MVP for depth.
Am I the only one feeling a bit betrayed by MVP? I mean, ending your career to dabble in other pursuits is one thing, but switching to SC2 while saying "I'm tired of being a progamer" to Stars fans feels like a slap in the face. Then again, he wasn't too good, and the main line-up is still there, so I guess it could be a lot worse.
On October 02 2010 06:24 mustaju wrote: Am I the only one feeling a bit betrayed by MVP? I mean, ending your career to dabble in other pursuits is one thing, but switching to SC2 while saying "I'm tired of being a progamer" to Stars fans feels like a slap in the face. Then again, he wasn't too good, and the main line-up is still there, so I guess it could be a lot worse.
It just means that being an SC2 progamer is easy when he is a Korean raping nub foreigners.
On October 02 2010 06:24 mustaju wrote: Am I the only one feeling a bit betrayed by MVP? I mean, ending your career to dabble in other pursuits is one thing, but switching to SC2 while saying "I'm tired of being a progamer" to Stars fans feels like a slap in the face. Then again, he wasn't too good, and the main line-up is still there, so I guess it could be a lot worse.
It just means that being an SC2 progamer is easy when he is a Korean raping nub foreigners.
It's still a crappy way to garner to your fanbase.
On October 02 2010 06:24 mustaju wrote: Am I the only one feeling a bit betrayed by MVP? I mean, ending your career to dabble in other pursuits is one thing, but switching to SC2 while saying "I'm tired of being a progamer" to Stars fans feels like a slap in the face. Then again, he wasn't too good, and the main line-up is still there, so I guess it could be a lot worse.
It just means that being an SC2 progamer is easy when he is a Korean raping nub foreigners.
It's still a crappy way to garner to your fanbase.
I agree that to the bw fan, it feels like he's scabbing, but if you look at it from his perspective, its not a bad decision. He was never a star in bw, he was a decent player by korean standards (was getting better) but not an S-class or anything, and this is his chance to potentially shine and stand out on his own. He's also the first 'active' A-teamer to announce he's switching over.
You might misunderstand what I'm trying to say. The thing that makes me angry is not that he switched to SC2, it's HOW he did it (at least according to the threads, they might have been mistranslated).
man Hwaseung should see if they can pickup Free. That would be sick and Zero can go to CJ to replace Effort, or maybe to Sparkys to lend Leta and hand.
On October 02 2010 06:24 mustaju wrote: Am I the only one feeling a bit betrayed by MVP? I mean, ending your career to dabble in other pursuits is one thing, but switching to SC2 while saying "I'm tired of being a progamer" to Stars fans feels like a slap in the face. Then again, he wasn't too good, and the main line-up is still there, so I guess it could be a lot worse.
As far as I'm concerned the only thing a progamer owes to his fans is to try his best while he's on the team. MVP has a much, much better chance of achieving something noteworthy in SC2 than BW and probably with less effort too. He could have just come out and said, hey I'm switching to SC2 but I don't think the reason he gave makes any difference.