EPTIntroducing the "god" line. - Page 3
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ella_guru
Canada1741 Posts
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Metallingus
Philippines468 Posts
On September 12 2010 23:43 Holgerius wrote: I don't take anyone complaining about Flash being turtling and boring seriously anymore. He's really fucking aggressive these days, and it's a huge part of his enormous success. He is better than everyone else in a proper and normal macro game, so you pretty much have to try something risky to get an advantage vs him, but he's also pretty much the best player in the world at punishing those attemps. I mean, he's doing stuff like bunker rushing three 12 Nex in a row vs Free in the MSL last season. Agreed. He (Flash) has so many cards up his sleeve, and he can play them all so well. Loved his play since way back, even when so many people were hating on him for being too cheesy. The cheese against Stork in particular (Bacchus 2008) still strikes me as genius - baiting the Commander into playing a macro game then proxy-ing, haha. | ||
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
Seriously he is almost perfect. His macro is amazing, his micro is formidable, and his game sense is unreal. He is able to play macro and cheese style and mix his play so he is really hard to predict. edit: when the only guys who have a slight chance to beat him in a bo3 or bo5 are the #1 zerg and the #2 zerg and they have to play unorthodox / cheesy, well i don't think that we are allowed to question his bonjwa status. | ||
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dcberkeley
Canada844 Posts
Flash stops turtling, starts being aggressive 2) Whine about cheese/BBS Flash doesn't cheese, uses mech 3) Whine about tank imba Flash uses only goliaths, wins game 4) Whine about mech imba Flash uses M&Ms, wins game Jaedong 4 pools! 5) GENIUS Again! 6) Fucking SCVs Counter cheese! 7) Gay cheese, bad maps Flash wins on Zergliner 8) Whine about TvZ, imbalance of the game No Terran in semis of either league? Remind people of Swarm Season 9) Whine about turtling | ||
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ymir233
United States8275 Posts
"Hmm, I wrote down 'play mind games' here. Interesting suggestion. I think I'll incorporate that into every BoX I have so that my general strategy almost always counters their general strategy" >_________> | ||
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EternaLEnVy
Canada513 Posts
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Chimpalimp
United States1135 Posts
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Mooncat
Germany1228 Posts
On September 12 2010 23:22 SubtleArt wrote: Scary thing is Flash is so young. If BW continues, he's definitely gonna have at least 4 more peak years ahead of him until he starts to decline (unless a rookie Zerg inexplicably rapes him 3-0 in a series, he gets humiliated by a protoss over and over, who then proceeds to do a ridiculous dance around him, then he starts throwing games  )He was extremely aggressive vs Free and Jaedong in the last 3 Bo5s he's played and if anything, this year I'm amazed at how varied Flash's play has been and how many timing pushes he's busted out in TvP this year. I really don't see how you could say he always turtles nowadays. When was the last time he split the map vs a protoss? Whatever, I think I've accepted the gaming community is one of the most pessimistic and ungrateful communities. I'm pretty sure he was trolling hard or maybe even being sarcastic. By now everyone should know that Flash is one of the most aggressive players in Starcraft. | ||
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Mania[K]al
United States359 Posts
Same 2 races(And people) in every final gets pretty boring. | ||
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Hypnosis
United States2061 Posts
On September 12 2010 19:08 Evil_Monkey_ wrote: On a serious note, Flash is the best player of all time, but he has not done as many amazing things as some of the players before him. I wouldn't rank him the greatest player of all time, he's simply not old-school enough, but he's definetly the best I've ever seen. I honestly think Jaedong has done him some favours in recent tournies though, by beating some of the people who have a shot at flash. Flash has likewise helped Jaedong. I hated Boxer when he was in his prime, but he did some of the most amazing things ever done in starcraft. I'll never forget his game against Didi at WCG when he was at 60 supply against I forgot if it was 150 or 200 and still pulled off the win. That was amazing. Nal_Ra inventing hidden proxy DT, Proxy Robo's and scout openings. That was amazing. Flash is amazing too but there's so much innovation that's gone before him. IF you can beat any player in the world you are the best player of all time. Flash being around at the end of the BW scene means he is the best to do it, now AND then. IF any player from the past matched up against him they would lose hands down. he is arguably the BEST PLAYER EVER. For pure winning reasons not finesse or originality. | ||
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gmsts
England61 Posts
On September 13 2010 01:32 Mania[K]al wrote: Glad i stopped watching SC1. Same 2 races(And people) in every final gets pretty boring. Your lost, this last finals was amazing had macro, cheese, counter cheese, burrowed lings... god damn what else can you ask for. | ||
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Garrl
Scotland1975 Posts
On September 13 2010 01:32 Mania[K]al wrote: Glad i stopped watching SC1. Same 2 races(And people) in every final gets pretty boring. you're being sarcastic, right? | ||
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Garaman
United States556 Posts
why wont u lose to jaedong T___T you are too good for your own good. i hope jaedong comes back with a vengence... he needs a transformation. or he needs to learn with effort how to z v t against flash. | ||
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Loser777
1931 Posts
Be #1 in Power Rank... rofl Flash has been doing ridiculously well, but as someone who started watching BW in mid 2007 I really don't have a good idea of how much older pros dominated. (no past Gods?) | ||
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
On September 13 2010 01:32 Mania[K]al wrote: Glad i stopped watching SC1. Same 2 races(And people) in every final gets pretty boring. We see a lot of zergs in the final in Sc2 that's for sure :3 | ||
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Iplaythings
Denmark9110 Posts
On September 13 2010 02:08 Boblion wrote: We see a lot of zergs in the final in Sc2 that's for sure :3 Derp, last season people cried about double zvz Now people cry about flash and jaedong playing, guess haters' gonna hate User was warned for this post | ||
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darkmetal505
United States639 Posts
On September 13 2010 00:08 Boblion wrote: when the only guys who have a slight chance to beat him in a bo3 or bo5 are the #1 zerg and the #2 zerg and they have to play unorthodox / cheesy, well i don't think that we are allowed to question his bonjwa status. I really don't like this sentiment because it sets up a double standard. Why do people feel that a zerg is somehow required to let the terran reach the late game phase without doing anything? With Flash's greedy openings, the best way to punish it would be something extremely aggressive early on in the game. If you can end it early, why not go for it? It's natural when facing an opponent to hit his/her weakest link in his/her plan, no? Effort recognized this and took advantage of it. Jaedong has already showed that he can handle Flash in a late game scenario (Game 3, MSL), but he is still entitled to going aggressive openings if he so desires. The notion that zergs somehow have to "resort" to doing something seems a bit unfair to me. To be completely honest, the timing pushes in Games 1 and 2 of the MSL by Flash were pretty unorthodox. They were definitely baller, but were specifically designed to catch Jaedong off-guard. Also Games 2 and 4 of the OSL would be considered cheesy openings by Flash also. The reason why I think Flash is so good is because he uses the idea of "marginal advantage" better than anyone ever seen. In Game 4, he immediately constructed a CC after taking down JD's overlord and 4 drones instead of committing to the rush. His evaluation inside the game is unparalleled. He "actively thinks" instead of just being a machine. I also think JD is very similar and just had some bad luck against Flash. | ||
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Mumei
United States257 Posts
On September 12 2010 23:59 ella_guru wrote: Yea those who rip on him about a boring style obviously havent bothered to watch a game of his this last season. Step 1: Flash makes perfect use of Terran's superior defensive options to hold back any early aggression and prevent scouting from the opponent while simultaneously getting the scouting information he needs to decide what he should do. Step 2: Flash monitors his opponent with periodic scans, and moves out at the perfect timing - when Flash has enough units to roll through his opponent unchallenged, and he wins. Most of the variations occur within this same basic framework. If the initial timing push doesn't work, and his opponent is able to get their third / fourth bases set up (assuming he is facing Zerg or Protoss), then Flash's games are really, really entertaining because it might become an exciting back-and-forth affair instead of a "Flash's opponent doesn't have enough units to safely attack Flash, so Flash is immune from attack, then Flash uses his superior macro to roll over his opponent 10 minutes into the game" affair. But most of the time Flash wins before that point, and I'm not really entertained seeing Flash just roll over his opponent's with timing pushes. Maybe if I liked watching Terran play I'd enjoy it more, but for me most of his games are an exercise in frustration to watch. Edit: Just so I'm clear, I'm not explaining why Flash isn't entertaining, generally, or why other people shouldn't feel entertained, but why I don't enjoy his games as much. | ||
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Delerium
United States324 Posts
edit: which god would he be? Hmm... double armory build is making me think perhaps Hephaestus/Vulcan :D | ||
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HeadhunteR
Argentina1258 Posts
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