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On September 01 2010 15:13 Taku wrote:
With the latest update, assuming it's true, we can definitely point the finger at the party in the wrong in this dispute. By which I mean gretech of course. Do they really need to try to crush proleague to promote GSL? Are they that insecure in the probability of success for SCII?
well its more I think that if both are broadcasted at the same time it will cause conflicts. And right now bw would get picked over sc2 due to how new the game is.
But really I see pro's and cons on both sides. I can't take either.
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fuck my eyes are welling up 
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United States33388 Posts
Please keep in mind that these are statements from a KeSPA press conference, and that the story is always different depending on who is telling it. If Gretech cares to speak out on the issue in the future, please try and weigh the different stances against each other.
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Damn, if the last update is 100% true in all respects...
I'll hold back my opinions because I want to hate Activision/Blizzard.
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On September 01 2010 15:22 Philar wrote:
gretch: pay me money
kespa: ok i will pay u to run proleague, how much u want?
gretch: no. dont pay us money we dont want u to run proleague
kespa: ....
Yes, this is an accurate analogy of what is happening right now. [/sarcasm]
All we have is a bunch of hearsay from a party who is probably on Kespa's side. If Blizzard and GOMTV didn't want this to work, then they wouldn't be negotiating with Kespa, would they?
Sounds to me like a bunch of Kespa propaganda...
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51450 Posts
As Waxangel said, it's highly illogical to jump to conclusions off just one statement and opinion from a reporter.
We'll just have to wait and see for more to come out of this.
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All I can say is that at least they have the balls to admit it.
(if this is true)
Doesn't make them any less of a pack of greedy ratfucks.
How sad would it be if professional Brood War is killed by people like this.
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Hilarious - Gretech now doing to KeSPA what KeSPA tried to do to Gom during the last intel classic!
How does it feel to be on the receiving end, KeSPA?
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
On September 01 2010 16:34 Vedic wrote:
Hilarious - Gretech now doing to KeSPA what KeSPA tried to do to Gom during the last intel classic!
How does it feel to be on the receiving end, KeSPA?
but the cost of KeSPA's loss is too high.We might lose all of Pro-BW if things go badly.
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Oh my blizzard, why are you being such arseholes
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On September 01 2010 00:55 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2010 00:49 dyodyo wrote:On September 01 2010 00:37 maybenexttime wrote:On August 31 2010 23:53 Killmour wrote:On August 31 2010 23:51 metaldragon wrote:
At Best Kespa will hurt blizzard in korea some and at worst the disband a profitable proleague for nothing and Sc2 goes on in korea without a beat.
Exactly, Kespa's attitude of our way or we will have a temper tantrum and disband the pro-league is just stupid. GET A CLUE. If Gretech forces KeSPA to shut down Proleague, there's no reason for any progaming teams to operate. Why on earth would they keep sustaining them? This is not charity... ProLeague is THE marketing tool those corporate sponsors as far as esports go. It's ridiculous how Gretech feels threatened by ProLeague because they're (KeSPA) are using a superior spectator game, with superior infrastructure and organization. I dont think that they are being threatened by a "superior spectator game". They are just afraid that KeSPA would again force the teams and its players to boycott a Gretech run league, just like what KeSPA did with the GSL. KeSPA players are already NOT participating. GSL is a StarCraft TWO league. KeSPA teams are BROOD WAR teams, with BROOD WAR players. Does Gretech fear that KeSPA will forbid those very BROOD WAR players from playing in a StarCraft TWO competition?
KeSPA already has.
With that said, I dont see how anyone can be defending KeSPA. If they were really behind ESports, they would not be trying to make sure that BW is the ONLY significant ESport around. Theres no reason both can not coexist, and I do not see why KeSPA does not WANT both games to succeed.
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Russian Federation1381 Posts
F*ing Blizzard and Gretech.
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Given that both KeSPA and the Proleague have grown over the years, it is fundamentally impossible for KeSPA to be non-profit. This much is a lie anyone with a remote sense of business mechanics can see. Likely, since license fees would be based on profit earned from the use of the license + base fee (this is typical), they are and have been (thus why talks with Bliz died) lying about their profits. If we recall, Bliz got in a fight with them not opening their books (to prove profit / non-profit), if they really are non-profit opening their books would have been very easy and a review thereof, very welcome.
KeSPA is and has been exploiting the BW IP for profit and they know they cannot do the same for SC2. Their irrelevance... they know it and wish to live. I can understand what they are doing, but at the same time it endangers everything.
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On September 01 2010 16:39 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2010 16:34 Vedic wrote:
Hilarious - Gretech now doing to KeSPA what KeSPA tried to do to Gom during the last intel classic!
How does it feel to be on the receiving end, KeSPA? but the cost of KeSPA's loss is too high.We might lose all of Pro-BW if things go badly.
Hey, they could have negotiated this deal with Blizzard a long time ago, but complained about the costs. Now, they even say that they don't care how much it will cost, and that they're willing to pay - so the real problem before was just that they were power hungry.
Losing KeSPA is a SMALL price to pay for even a chance that Starcraft in all forms will be supported internationally.
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Since when did SC2 become such a successful esport that we conclude that Kespa "not caring about SC2" means that they "don't care about esports"?
When SC2 "progamers" can earn a stable salary regardless of performance in tournaments, then SC2 can begin to be considered a successful esport. Taking a day or two off work/school to practice for a SC2 tournament (whose entire viewership is limited to other people that play the game) doesn't earn you the right to call yourself a progamer.
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Wait for what? The entire scene to be go backwards in time and maybe even fizzle out as if the phenemonen never existed?
Whatever bullshit Blizzard/Gretech is pulling for whatever reasons, is making the entire scene unstable. It won't be easy to persuade sponors to keep investing in the scene that is plagued with uncertainty, legal troubles and bad publicity overall. Not to mention the players themselves won't be able to showcast all their skills now they have their own livelihood to worry about.
I can see no good coming out of this, and since when did any of you care about the intellectual rights of a company that hardly is a victim of the idea that their game is the only product that manages to keep an entire industry consisting of numerous broadcasting companies, corporate sponsors, internet sites, alive. The industy was alive because we watched through the good times and the bad. Supported the players. Skipped classes to watch our favourite players live. Spent hours on numerous internet communities discussing the more important issues going on in the scene. It was the people's interest in the scene that allowed the scene to grow. And now Blizzard/Gretech wants to take all that away.
You can justify that all you want. I say it's total fucking bullshit. Blizzard didn't the scene. They shouldn't be able to hold us all at a gun point just because they made the game. It was the players. The teams that paid them. The broadcasters who employed professional observers, map-makers, casters and commentators. The fans who stood by their players and teams, the fans who got the broadcasting companies the necessary raitings. The fans who got the internet sites to stay alive with their non-stop activity within it.
Many of us, in one small way or the other. Made this entire thing happen. E-Sports wouldn't ahve existed without Blizzard? Fuck that. It wouldn't have existed without a lot of things clicking just right. Why the fuck would anybody empathize Blizzard's needs to disregard all the blood, sweat and tears devoted to get E-Sports to the point it is at now, for whatever the fuck it is that they feel we as a community owe to them for making such a great fucking game. I thought the debt was over the moment I paid for the game. But no. They feel I must bow down and suck on their crotch everytime I want to enjoy the by-products of their game. Apparently I can't enjoy shit without having to grovel for their permission and paying them money EVERY FUCKING TIME I WANT TO WATCH IT ON TELEVISION.
Don't you get it? We're the customers. We sustained the scene with our interest, which the corporate sponsors deemed enough in return for the pleasure of watching this amazing thing that is not available anywhere else. Now Blizzard comes barging in and starts to make demands that is way over-board both in terms of control and fincially speaking. They're not just fucking with Kespa here. They are FUCKING WITH YOU. STOP BEING HAPPY THAT YOU'RE BEING VIOLATED ANALLY BY A BUNCH OF MONEY HUNGRY FUCKHEADS.
Blizzard is essentially saying you can't fucking enjoy E-Sports without us getting our pockets full. Want to play our game? Pay us. Want to play our game on television. Pay us. Want to watch our game on television. FUCKING PAY US.
What part the E-Sports scene in Korea being threatened, Blizzard's message that what we do with their products will never be legally viable without their permission, and all the work we as a community have put in, no matter how small or insignificant in the grand scope of things, being PISSED ON by those fuckers. Why are some retards here celebrating the presence of a dictatorship on something that was not perfect, but relatively free from all this bullshit that has nothing to do with the beauty of the industry? Why are these mindless drones essentially mumbling: "OH CREATOR OF STARCRAFT WE BOW DOWN TO THEE AND WE ALL GLAD TO MEET YOUR INCESSANT NEED FOR MORE MONEY AND POWER. FUCK KESPA AND FUCK BROOD WARS. WE WILL PAY ALL THE CASH. WE WILL PAY ALL THE INTELLECTUAL RIGHTS EVERY TIME WE PLAY YOUR GAME COMPETITIVELY."
I say fuck that. And fuck you if you think we owe Blizzard a cent for something they hardly touched on all these years and have benefitted greatly from. It's the ultimate betrayal, and you have some serious issues of sadomasochism if you are greatly interested in making Blizzard richer even if it means having to sacrifice on your part.
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On September 01 2010 17:01 sk` wrote:
Given that both KeSPA and the Proleague have grown over the years, it is fundamentally impossible for KeSPA to be non-profit. This much is a lie anyone with a remote sense of business mechanics can see. Likely, since license fees would be based on profit earned from the use of the license + base fee (this is typical), they are and have been (thus why talks with Bliz died) lying about their profits. If we recall, Bliz got in a fight with them not opening their books (to prove profit / non-profit), if they really are non-profit opening their books would have been very easy and a review thereof, very welcome.
KeSPA is and has been exploiting the BW IP for profit and they know they cannot do the same for SC2. Their irrelevance... they know it and wish to live. I can understand what they are doing, but at the same time it endangers everything.
Proleague hasn't grown over the years infact it's got smaller... even if it had grown why would that equal any more profit unless you have proof that sponsors are paying more now than before? Which i think is unlikely considering less spectators compared to the peak.
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On August 31 2010 23:57 Milkis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2010 23:53 Nesto wrote:
what the hell...
Gretech... you think GSL would survive if you forcibly stop the proleague and force the disbanding of the proleague teams? imagine the outrage..
and for Kespa... simply fuck off... it just seems they only care about the money they make with SCBW and want to make sure, that they don't have any competition from GSL / SC2... kespa is nonprofit. Kespa is probably saying "fuck you" to sc2 cause they have emotional issues against Blizzard.
I think you miss the point.
Blizzard has decided that they would control via ridiculously hard contract on IP the pro-scene, which Kespa has refused.
Now they will try to
1- Kill Kespa.
2- Kill Brood War.
There is nothing emotional here. Gretech / Blizzard won't let Kespa take care of SC2. And I suspect that Kespa knows very well that SC2 doesn't have at all the potential to be a succesfull e-sport for more than a couple of years since it's damn boring to watch (someone who doesnn't know BW can enkoy very quickly, someone who doesn't know SC2 sees blob of units you can't distinguish clashing afetr 20 minutes).
It's sad how awful Blizzard has turned. It's a caricature of the big corporation who don't give a shit about anything but making a lot of money, right now.
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I know all arguments of those, who believes that Activision Blizzard is right here. I can even confess that i think that Blizzard's corrupted succesor Active Lizzard should be given some prophits from Korean Leagues, as they are owner of IP from SC franchise.
But i can assure you one thing...
...if there was even hypotetical possibility that KESPA or any other big organisation in Korea would say "fuck that shit, screw SC, lets find something else", start to promoting other mark (some Relic games for example) and made that popular, competetive e-sports, Active Lizzard would suddenly cease all of there claims and started to smiling even to fucking KESPA.
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On September 01 2010 03:49 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2010 02:28 Lokian wrote:
Hate more please. :rolleyes:
oh, Blizzard doesn't care about BW. Really? What can they do when they're just going to get boycotted.
Great logic there.
And now they're trying SC2. Kespa, what the heck happened to 'for the fans' reaction. I don't see Blizzard/Gretech in any wrong. Kespa had too many chances.
Isn't it like... Gretech is trying to have Proleague and GSL together. By just changing Kespa's Schedule, wouldn't that fix that? But Kespa won't conform? Seems to me like a temper tantrum. Why the fuck would OGN/MBC change their ProLeague time slots just because Gretech demands them to because they know GSL can't compete with PL? How ridiculous is that? T___T
Cause then otherwise Gretech won't let them play/broadcast the league? Who the fuck picks nothing over something? How ridiculous is that? T__T
On September 01 2010 08:53 moopie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2010 08:23 gyth wrote:"Because we have decided to pay a usage fee for the Intellectual property for the Proleague, we have no reason to promote Starcraft 2 or help GomTV. If Gretech is like this, then there isn't any more point of negotiations". I think this is just a hypothetical situation. Even if they paid to broadcast BW, but would still be required to schedule around GSL, which they don't want to do. Scheduling around GSL is the least of the issues on the table. It was about Blizzard demanding ridiculous power over KeSPA and the BW scene in korea (in addition to usage fees from team sponsors, league sponsors and rights for proleague). Being able to have the final say over player contracts and leagues, having the power to cancel and reschedule events, deny sponsors, priority over player schedules for Blizzard's own events, audit KeSPA's finances, only giving them contracts in 1 year increments (which could then be discontinued the following year), etc.
Wrong, because blizz has nothing to do with this. Blizz has a contract with Gretech, and gretech can sub licence out to the others. You are thinking about the Blizz//Kespa negotiations that happened ages ago.
It's funny because Kespa releases a statement and people believe it as gospel truth, even though they are 1) breaking an NDA 2) have lied very recently in the past while 3) doing the exact same thing.
Remember during the blizz negotiations when Kespa started talking about them, breaking NDA? When they said they were doing such and such and had never had a contract or anything with blizzard and it turned out they did? Fucking liars going at it again just to make themselves look good. Then look at the people eating it up.
Gretech: Okay guys, you need a licence to broadcast / run PL. We can take $xxxxx
Kespa: No F U, we don't have the money for that!
Gretech: Okay fine, but we arn't going to sublet a licence we paid money for for free. How else can you compensate us? Maybe just promise to show PL at a time when we arn't running GSL?
Kespa: No, we will do whatever we want.
*kespa runs to media*
Kespa: Look, we offered to pay them but they said they did not want any money and we couldn't run PL!
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EPT
