On July 11 2008 02:16 Ghardo wrote: but fisheye... do you think he still can do what he did in '01? not to take away that he is a phenomenal player.. but there are very few "old" gamers who still bring it as much as the young ones. (want to have a harsh contrast? Flash-Much // White-Ra-..JF e.g.)
Well, one small comparsion might be WCG Nordic 04
Slayer stopped playing somewhere around 2001 or 2002 I guess? And he still came back 2 years later, with little or no practice at all, and ended up #3 in the norweigan qualifiers. He'd probably won, but they had to shorten the LB finals to Bo1, and the WB finals to bo3, because they had to catch the flight back to norway (it was held in Sweden). Had it been Bo3 and Bo5, Slayer might've even gone to WCG finals that year.
I remember that, I watched the nordic WCG closely as I was rooting for my (TE) teammates (that time being Gos-Chaso, a swedish terran who retired shortly thereafter iirc, and Arcneon, whom you might now as today's iG.Madclaw, a finnish protoss). I was amazed at Slayer's play, having only heard about him before (2002 was before my time of online SC), knowing he didn't practice at all those past two years...
He is some real talent, I tell ya
Yeah I know all about Chaso and Arcneon. I've met Chaso several times at offline events, and Arcneon played in our team as a smurf a couple of times back in the days orzhady(TE) knew him pretty well, so he did it as a favour ;O Don't know if he was in (TE) at the same time as you?
He was, I have some vague memories (TE) was my first international clan (and a not too shabby one, nice players in there - our manager gave us kinda a bad reputation though, he had conflicts with WGT admins all the time ), and I was very proud that I did well in the internal tourneys we had.
The only thing I value more about my SC-"career" than that is the time right after (TE) fell apart, and somehow I got into 88)
it's simple why there are a few ex broodwar players in poker and doing well. These guys have been sitting around most of their lives doing jack squat. i like how some people like to draw up mythic explanations as to why elky does so well in poker or rekrul for that matter, but i mean gaming just has so many non-professional young people who can sit for extended hours. What else are they suppose to do?
On July 12 2008 08:33 gg_hertzz wrote: it's simple why there are a few ex broodwar players in poker and doing well. These guys have been sitting around most of their lives doing jack squat. i like how some people like to draw up mythic explanations as to why elky does so well in poker or rekrul for that matter, but i mean gaming just has so many non-professional young people who can sit for extended hours. What else are they suppose to do?
that is pure rubbish and I don't understand how someone can write it down and find someone to agree. Poker is a game of strategy as Starcraft is. There are similarities but also differences. People who are very creative in Starcraft, beeing able to look behind mechanics and have that strategic mind set, have qualities that are necessary for poker as well. Furtheremore poker requires tremendous selfmanagement skillz such as psychological stability, beeing ableto disregard real money and rather look at every time at the most expected value per move. There is a long list, why topnotch Starcraft players such as Slayer and many more have become millionaires. Obviously playing hours Starcraft or doing the same with poker is just an easy change for those people. If there were only a few $ to be made, most good players wouldn't have started... But if someone like Slayer is able to accumulate 7 figures in a year, setting himself up for life and starting a family at the age of maybe 25, who would seriously say like "what else could he have done?". That guy is a genius and he should deserve respect. Do you look at Kasperov and say, hmm he was a weird guy anyways, what else could he have done except for chess? Maybe those people are what you could consider one sided when it comes to talent, I am in no position to judge.. Anyways fact is there are millions of poker players out there and there is a reason why few super players changed to poker and became successful, luck is not involved neither mythical explanations. Those who make that much money are around the top 0,01% of the player pool overall and I guess they were around that number in Starcraft as well. Coincidence?
Wow I was honestly thinking about starting up poker myself as well but from what yo just said there fisheye, but now I think I'll just pass up on that as what you said made alot of sense. The top players of poker like elky and all the old schoolers who made the switch from sc to poker have been top players in Korea and like you said only make up 0.01% of the pool of successful poker players. It seems(like u said)that these are very special ppl that are born with the mind to go above and beyond the mechanics and distinguish themselves from all the others in order to succeed. Your saying this isn't just some rubbish that u can be good at by playing everyday for hours and does requires level of skill comparable to sc and the top players have the discipline and that "natural talent"(we'll just use this for now)to separate themselves from everyone else and earn so much to earn a living off of it. Well to be honest I don't think I'm blessed with this "natural talent" so with money involved I think it will just be wise for me not to get involved with this as i would stand a better chance getting good at star and winning money through winning foreigner tourneys like TSL or something(I'm not saying I'm good enough to win the TSL but a more realistic dream than to earn a living from pokAr(poker)who have the natural talent).
Oh, and i love how after baal and tiffany is so set on their opinions that Slayer is DEFINITELY not the best that they both had to "correct" poor DickDodgers who might actually have been right and even known more than them(although reading that post carefully makes me realize that isn't so)and then maynard comes out of the blue and this whole thread shifts from the ignorance that is slayer and is educated among many old schoolers who also pops up about how slayer is or could've been one of the greatest sc players to play this game. I also learned this too as I always considered Grrr.. the best forgiener.
Slayer was far beyond any foreigners when it comes to starcraft, he got great after the boom in Korea and was probably the only one to be on the same level as the veryvery best koreans.
Grrr dominated for sure, but dropped once the koreans started getting really good, probably lacking dedication, but also mechanics. Slayer was just as fast as the top koreans and in a time where koreans played very basic his strategics were on a level beyond theirs.
Grr was just another good player to me the first time i saw him play. Slayer amazed me just as much as Nada did the first time i saw him. Those two are also whom i regard as the greatest players ever, foreigner and korean. Not even close.
On a sidenote Kasparov could do else then chess, since he quit and is now into politics as one of the leaders in the opposition of Putin.
If you wonder how much money he has earned (Public Tax Data)
Check here:
Anyway, he has a fortune of ~ 10 000 000 NOK
Where 1$ = 6 NOK
I started playing Starcraft because of this documentary, It was really fun to see it once again, so thanks for the upload.
I'll never forget Slayer's tremendous skill and I regard him as the BIGGEST talent in SC:BW history. It's sad that he stopped playing so early (and when he was so good that he was compared to how much he actually practiced..), but who can blame him? He's a very rich 25 year old man in Norway. Not many are able to earn so much money on their own.
Let's hope he will return for SC2 and dominate like he did back in 2000
If you ever want to see old school games like the ones from the documentary, check out the back pages of the tl.net replay archive. It's a mountain of gold! I recommend tomson (t) vs zergplay (z) on plains to hill. Search for it.
On June 14 2004 18:05 Liquid`Drone wrote: frozen you never saw him play. he became the worlds best player playing in a COMPLETELY different enviroment from boxer and garimto. becoming amazingly good when you're constantly practicing on lan with the best players in the world is a lot less impressive than becoming amazingly good when you're playing far less than them and online.
slayer was never a progamer, but still beat them all, while getting very, very good grades in school.
bump.
it's been a year since this documentary has been bumped (original thread is from 2004.) and a lot of new people are on TL.net that "do know know the history".
yesterday i was watching some poker videos of Elky and bumped into a slayer documentary, i think it needs to be seen again. For a clip that was made in the year 2000 and is about gaming, i think it is much better presented than other new Fox news crap like documentary videos.
so here you go:
on this topic you can read posts from pG players, Maynard, NTT and other old school players. enjoy
Sorry to have it bump, but its one of the best documentaries made about SC, and seeing foreigner dominating almost full Korean tournament brings tears to my eyes (seems kinda unlikely to ever happen again).
Also documentary while being made in 2001 still looks very fresh. Enjoy!
On June 13 2004 17:41 NewbSaibot wrote: and then what, who the hell is gonna have 170megs of webspace to host that on? Or be willing to give to anybody for someone else to host.
This was really funny to see before I looked at the date.
EPT
orzhady(TE) knew him pretty well, so he did it as a favour ;O Don't know if he was in (TE) at the same time as you?
(TE) was my first international clan (and a not too shabby one, nice players in there - our manager gave us kinda a bad reputation though, he had conflicts with WGT admins all the time 
), and I was very proud that I did well in the internal tourneys we had.
