On August 06 2010 10:44 chongu wrote: So which terran player started using this bio transition to mech play? was is Flash or Fantasy? (the earliest game i can think of was zero vs fantasy)
this thread, which appears well-researched, also came up with zero vs fantasy
Flash vs. Calm on Bloodspot predates it by ten days.
Actually, if you looked hard enough, you could probably find similar games going way way back. Just by memory, Flash beat Savior with it back in his rookie year. (though he didn't start with bio)
People seem to think this is some new strategy, but a mech defense against hivetech seems fairly natural, so I wouldn't be surprised if it has probably been around forever to some degree, but it's tough to make that transition. Polaris Rhapsody has proven to be a pretty good map for it, but I don't think its really unbeatable like a lot of people think. "Jaedong lost?! It must be because of this dumb imba mech strat, not because he was outplayed!"
On August 06 2010 10:44 bearbuddy wrote: Flash has revolutionized terran again. The build is so good that the terran doesn't even have to push into the enemy's half of the map to win.
- If you have to evaluate the late mechanic strategy ▲ In my opinion, if the Terran has absolute control over the late mechanic strategy, then the Zerg cannot win. If a Terran has really great command over this strategy, there is no way Zerg can win in an average map.
The TL terran fans who keep trying to say that this strategy is easy to beat ('just go QUEENS and GUARDIANS!') should listen to Sea- he actually knows what he's talking about.
On August 06 2010 10:44 chongu wrote: So which terran player started using this bio transition to mech play? was is Flash or Fantasy? (the earliest game i can think of was zero vs fantasy)
this thread, which appears well-researched, also came up with zero vs fantasy
Flash vs. Calm on Bloodspot predates it by ten days.
Actually, if you looked hard enough, you could probably find similar games going way way back. Just by memory, Flash beat Savior with it back in his rookie year. (though he didn't start with bio)
People seem to think this is some new strategy, but a mech defense against hivetech seems fairly natural, so I wouldn't be surprised if it has probably been around forever to some degree, but it's tough to make that transition. Polaris Rhapsody has proven to be a pretty good map for it, but I don't think its really unbeatable like a lot of people think. "Jaedong lost?! It must be because of this dumb imba mech strat, not because he was outplayed!"
The Flash vs Calm game isn't the bio --> mech strat, its just flash turtling and going bio with a ton of tanks. MnM was still being produced and used as part of the central army for the whole game.
And the Flash vs savior game is just straight up mech.
On August 06 2010 07:58 SkelA wrote: I can only hope that anyone from JD/Effort gonna win their Bo5 because 3 tvt in a row will be really boring.
An all-Terran semifinal is still better than an all-Zerg semifinal the MSL used to have.
Only people with tremendous time on their hands believe this.
I'd rather have a long finals then one with gameplay totally up to under an hour.
seconded.
I think the difference is that ZvZ games (Clam vs Pikachu lol) are so short that people just instantly forget about how bad they were. On the other hand, if there's a bad TvT game, everyone will remember it for how long it wasted their time. As a result, people only come to hate TvT... which is deserved, in that sense.
To me, this strategy seems imba simply because a human being cannot multi-task fast enough to break late-game mech terran. If one sides just has to lay mines, seige tanks, build turrets and turtles, while the other side needs to a-move his army, drop on top of tanks, cast swarm, bury lurkers, etc. etc. etc., then obviously zerg is at a huge disadvantage.
The usual short term counter to any strategy seems to be a timing attack. I think zergs will find the timing window when the terran's tech switch and try something at that time. But after the bio-mech defense is fully set up, I think it's pretty difficult to beat a terran with great control(ala Sea, Light, Flash, etc.)
Oh Sea you, you're such a cutie. <3 Interesting stuff here... the discussion revolving around the strat - but I'm just going to avoid this and add a little more fanboy to the thread.
Sad to see another Progamer leaving the scene... Well, Peace was really struggling in nearly every broadcasted game, but i wish him the best of luck for his future... although I never noticed him that much.
I'm suprised Sea basically called the strat (and terran) imba. There shouldn't be a strat that you'll win with no matter what if you do a few things right.
Oh well. He played well. JD played average. It isn't over yet.
On August 06 2010 12:41 5unrise wrote: At least Sea admits this strategy is imba, unlike the rest of the Terrans who vehemently denies this like their life depends on it.
Flash tried the Strategey 3 times in the last 3 games last osl finals, and didnt win a single time. nuff said.
On August 06 2010 12:41 5unrise wrote: At least Sea admits this strategy is imba, unlike the rest of the Terrans who vehemently denies this like their life depends on it.
Flash tried the Strategey 3 times in the last 3 games last osl finals, and didnt win a single time. nuff said.
Terran fans got TvZ figured out. Either it goes to the late game where a terran with good control can't lose on an avarage map. Or the zerg finishes it before that, and then he is a skill less noob who only robbed the terran who is in fact much better.
EPT
