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On May 20 2010 21:44 Scaramanga wrote:
Romad if player x > player y dose this automaticly make player x better overall? So by your logic snow and effort are the best players in the world because they beat flash? You cant just say because JD is better than flash in two finals and as flash has been the best for the last 6 months, JD is now the greatest player in the world. Yes JD > Flash head to head but overall Flash is still better
c'mon. I don't really wanna jump into this discussion.
but comparing bo1's to two consecutive bo5's in a SL final is kinda stupid, isn't it?
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Guys, please be aware that there are two arguments going on here and people seem to talking past eachother. The original point was about who the best player of the season is (since JD thought the MSL finals would determine it).
The discussion about whether JD has been a better player overall throughout his entire career is completely separate....
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At this point I almost wish Flash would lose both finals just so Flash fans can finally stfu. Well almost, I still love the guy.
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On May 20 2010 21:49 Ota Solgryn wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 21:44 Scaramanga wrote:
Romad if player x > player y dose this automaticly make player x better overall? So by your logic snow and effort are the best players in the world because they beat flash? You cant just say because JD is better than flash in two finals and as flash has been the best for the last 6 months, JD is now the greatest player in the world. Yes JD > Flash head to head but overall Flash is still better But JD have more titles by far, does that not make JD better than flash by you logic, that he is better overall. And then comes ALSO the fact that JD beats flash in every BO5 so far, so he is actually not just better overall, but he beats him on the big stages as well.
Overall in the past two seasons, have you been reading the thread?
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this argument is going nowhere
lets just try and figure out what makes a player to be the best
is it best winning records ? success in long term or short term
or just his odds in winning in a bo5 (the reason of a bo5 vs a bo1 is obvious - any pro can win vs any pro given enough games , hell even nal ra won flash granted nal ra rocks but lets be real )
if its by the bo5 standards cant see anyone disagreeing on jaedong
if its by the win rate - its flash i'll be the first to agree
long term success- jaedong
short term - flash
it all depends on what you consider the most important fact to conclude "best player"
since my tag is oz i'll stick to bo5 odds and long term success i'll let the kt flash guys to pick the other 2  may we have a great finals with no black outs
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The answer is it can't really be settled since Flash has not had the same prerequisites for the finals.
but as romad said, lets just agree to disagree and look forward to a great finals.
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On May 20 2010 21:53 pvzvt wrote:this argument is going nowhere lets just try and figure out what makes a player to be the best is it best winning records ? success in long term or short term or just his odds in winning in a bo5 (the reason of a bo5 vs a bo1 is obvious - any pro can win vs any pro given enough games , hell even nal ra won flash granted nal ra rocks but lets be real ) if its by the bo5 standards cant see anyone disagreeing on jaedong if its by the win rate - its flash i'll be the first to agree long term success- jaedong short term - flash it all depends on what you consider the most important fact to conclude "best player" since my tag is oz i'll stick to bo5 odds and long term success i'll let the kt flash guys to pick the other 2 may we have a great finals with no black outs
I've been arguing that Flash is better than JD over the past two seasons and in the past two seasons flash has been the best in the world unquestionablely. His elo is insane, his winrate is insane, he's made both finals in both seasons, hes got a better boX record
In carrers JD is better i'm not disputing that
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Flash will lose both finals. You heard it here first
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On May 20 2010 21:59 Art.FeeL wrote:
Flash will lose both finals. You heard it here first
Amen!!
its long due for effort to have a medal
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I dunno, my money's on power outage to repeat.
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I'm wondering how people will react if Flash loses to Effort and then beats Jaedong 3-0.
Least likely scenario, but what if it happens?
There will be riots everywhere... >_>
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On May 20 2010 22:02 Kyo Yuy wrote:
I'm wondering how people will react if Flash loses to Effort and then beats Jaedong 3-0.
Least likely scenario, but what if it happens?
There will be riots everywhere... >_>
Meh, Flash won't hold back in the OSL final. Golden Mouse is his primary objective.
But I would love it if it happens. I am a drama freak.
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I wonder what happens if flash wins 3-0 in both finals, i wonder overall who the better player would be then?
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Its pretty sweet that the MSL basically gets a do-over. But I for one will root for  PowerOutage.
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On May 20 2010 22:05 Scaramanga wrote:
I wonder what happens if flash wins 3-0 in both finals, i wonder overall who the better player would be then?
flash is the favorite but 3-0 in both is pretty unlikely
anyways, the OSL will definitely heavily affect the results of MSL
if flash loses or barely wins the OSL, it may affect his confident greatly in the MSL, whereas if flash 3-0's effort, flash will enter the MSL with a really good mindset.
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On May 20 2010 21:36 roMAD wrote:Show nested quote + I'm sorry, playing 2 zergs? He is playing in TWO DIFFERENT FINALS yo. Read, process, comprehend, the way to success.
You know, talking with someone that can actually bring a valid point and disagreeing with them is fine, but you are not doing that at all, so I'll stop here.
So's your face.
lmfao
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I think there is one thing Flash fans fail to take into account every time.
Currently JD's ZvZ and ZVP are fucking beastly, unquestionably the best and are favoured vs every single Zerg and Protoss for 8:2 odds. His only questionable mu is his ZvT and only ZvT right now, if he can prove he is a better ZvTer than Flash by beating him in 2 bo5s, why cant he be considered the better player?
I'm not saying he'll win this bo5, but it's just something to put into account. And personally I think Flash is a much more solid player overall, and a better player, but when it comes to the bo5s I think JD has a larger edge.
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It's getting harder for the "Ultimate Weapon" to bring home both OSL and MSL gold. Both his opponents are in a winning streak. Effort beat Flash in there recent game not just by a small margine but outplayed Flash the entire game. JD on the other hand also beat Flash in there last MSL finals meeting. Well for Flash, this is a great time to prove and cement himself as not just the no.1 Terran but no.1 SC player in the world and levels himself to the legends like Boxer, Nada, Oov, Savior if he could grab both major titles. It's not just the "golden mouse"..... it's not just the "sweet revenge"..... It all boils down to one question. "What has the SC Gods in store for the Ultimate Weapon?"
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this is going to be epic. thanks for translating!
now we're facing 9 days of what-if scenarios followed by 1 week of see-now and but-then comments.
oh, and contributing to the debate, i don't think nadal-federer is a good comparison. i think prost-senna is a much better one
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Jaedong is better then FlaSh, at least in results. Lately FlaSh has been on an unbelievable tear, but Jaedong still has more SL's.
Also, I was pretty sure that 99.9% of the community believed that Jaedong had the poweroutage game completely won. FlaSh was mining from a min only, he most likely was getting low on money, and his push to disrupt Jaedongs 4th base when he was taking a 5th was pretty much deterred. It was over.
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EPT
