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Sweden33719 Posts
For zerg:
Queen - Energy of broodling down to 100, or maybe even 75. Think about it, psi storm for 75 can potentially kill just as much - there's no ground unit, except the unbroodable archon and the ultralisk - which can take more than 1 psionic storm, and it can hit like 10 units as opposed to 1.
I don't know but maybe the cost of the queen itself should be brought up to 150/150? Or 150/100, or maybe 100/150? Maybe that would ruin it's use against terran..
I think it could be used as a tank killer if the energy requirement was just 75, obviously this would rape high templars and therefore we move on to toss.
Toss:
Maelstrom down to 75, this would make the unit A LOT more popular, and thus it could counter the more effective queen (feedbacks range is great, and maelstrom for 75 could partially negotiate the effect of losing a few more high templars to broodling).
Reaver damage upgrade should increase it's attack by 28. Why 28? That means it does 128 damage to lurkers, thus it will do 1 hit ko until zerg gets 3 armor.
For terran:
Gogo 50 energy optical flare plz (hey anything that helps my vulture + blind + expo/contain build is welcome -_-!).
So, what do you think?
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Norway28675 Posts
holy shit queen no no no no no no no no no no no
difference between queens and templars : queens are flying units, and they move really fast. jesus christ if you had 75 energy broodling you could almost beat m&m with queen
you probably COULD beat pure dragoon with it.
queens are fine. making broodling 125 energy would be a nice thing to make people build them more often, but for people like me who already build them often, it would kinda overpower them. making it 100 energy would definitely make them too powerful. and 75 energy is honestly quite insane.
although you want to increase their cost, I definitely don't want that. :E
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I think the only reason toss has a hard time against zerg is zerglings+_+;;;;;
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But I'm not saying it is imbalance cuz of zergling, cuz you can counter it, but the problem is that the zerg knows how you are going to counter it so he/she makes a counter to your counter +_+;;;
PvZ, mind game+_+
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Sweden33719 Posts
On February 25 2004 05:53 Liquid`Drone wrote:
holy shit queen no no no no no no no no no no no
difference between queens and templars : queens are flying units, and they move really fast. jesus christ if you had 75 energy broodling you could almost beat m&m with queen
you probably COULD beat pure dragoon with it.
queens are fine. making broodling 125 energy would be a nice thing to make people build them more often, but for people like me who already build them often, it would kinda overpower them. making it 100 energy would definitely make them too powerful. and 75 energy is honestly quite insane.
although you want to increase their cost, I definitely don't want that. :E
Hm.. Ok :E But you can feedback queens with DA can you not -_-?
Ok, so if 125 energy then ~_~
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Uh, FA... I guess tanks suddenly die to single storms now? And zealots? And goons? And lurkers?
disclaimer: tanks can be repaired, shields regened, lurkers regened. k, I win.
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Norway28675 Posts
obsolete I was gonna comment on that but then I realized he said "more than one" not one.
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must we always nitpick? its poorly worded, thats all I'm saying ;;
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there is no broodable ground unit that can take one spawn broodling
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Norway28675 Posts
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ㅠ_ㅠ 나는 바보!
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Sweden33719 Posts
On February 25 2004 07:47 ObsoleteLogic wrote:
must we always nitpick? its poorly worded, thats all I'm saying ;;
When you speak swedish you can comment on my english :-)
Just kidding! I appreciate the fact that I could do with a lot of improvement when it comes to wording things properly 
No ground unit except the ultralisk and archon can survive 2 storms.
K!
And I should try to make a lost temple with 75 mana mael and 75 mana brood
Or 100 mana, maybe 75 is a bit extreme o_o
Btw, mindcontrol is 150, broodling is 150. Which would you say is more effective? Would you say mindcontrol is good enough to cost 150? Would it be OK at 125 or even 100 mana? IF mindcontrol was 125 or100 mana, wouldn't queen broodling HAVE to be at most 100 respectively 75 mana since Mindcontrol basically does the same thing+give you control of unit+works on air.
Yeah.
Is the reaver idea good though?
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Sweden33719 Posts
On February 25 2004 08:05 ObsoleteLogic wrote:
ㅠ_ㅠ 나는 바보!
Yes you are a babo 
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Sweden33719 Posts
Oh and Are you sure it shouldn't be 'jeo' and not 'na'?
Like, you say 'jeo terran', maybe na is used when it's something that won't change (well I suppose that could be the case with your stupidity  ) and Jeo is when it's something you are temporarily.. I mean, you will always be an american, but you may be zerg tomorrow. Yeah, I should ask someone like wax or something -_-
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Norway28675 Posts
frozenarbiter you can't compare the spell of a queen with the spell of a dark archon. the queen is a flying unit that costs 100/100, the dark archon is a ground unit that costs 250/200. AND, mind control makes it lose all shield, which leaves it with 20 hp..
I mean for fucks sake the queen costs the same as a muta, has the same hp as a muta and flies as fast as a muta. however one ensnare or one broodling is normally far more effective than the damage dealt by *one* muta.
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On February 25 2004 10:42 Liquid`Drone wrote:
frozenarbiter you can't compare the spell of a queen with the spell of a dark archon. the queen is a flying unit that costs 100/100, the dark archon is a ground unit that costs 250/200. AND, mind control makes it lose all shield, which leaves it with 20 hp..
I mean for fucks sake the queen costs the same as a muta, has the same hp as a muta and flies as fast as a muta. however one ensnare or one broodling is normally far more effective than the damage dealt by *one* muta.
HUK..when you use mind control you lost shield?+_+;;I didn't know that+_+damn
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queens are already more than powerful enough, it's not the game's fault that zerg players don't use them
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parasite costs now 75 not 50 like it did, yet it should cost 40-50 (maybe 50 because protoss could have problems) but terran can remove it damn easily and zerg can cast it more rarely because of the rebalancing. stupid
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Queens could be a bit cheaper and their spells too, but not TOO much cheaper as drone here stated.
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the queen problem could be solved this way:
queens start with energy = 100 instead of 50,
but mana cost should be the same or maybe 125 as drone suggested.
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Many T and P players dont understand how much the Zerg has to manage, all over the map when they ask why Zerg players dont use queens more. Queens cost 100min/100gas and a lot of micro time.
My suggestion to make them useable is to make them cost like 150/200, give them enough HP to survive 1 irradiate, and lower broodling to 100, ensnare to 50, parasite to 50.
What this does is it makes them cost more, but also more powerful, so instead of having 6 queens to micro, you only need 3 to do the same job. This will fix the main problem of too much micro required.
Sometimes when I feel like screwing around I join a pub team 3:3 game and get a cloud of like 30 queens and broodling the dragoons/goliath armies they send at me nonstop.
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I will throw in my rant, make Irradiate range less...
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On February 25 2004 12:18 CrazedZergling . wrote:
give them enough HP to survive 1 irradiate
if i'm not mistaken, irradiate does ~250-260 dmg
MOSNTER QUEENS!
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Sweden33719 Posts
On February 25 2004 10:42 Liquid`Drone wrote:
frozenarbiter you can't compare the spell of a queen with the spell of a dark archon. the queen is a flying unit that costs 100/100, the dark archon is a ground unit that costs 250/200. AND, mind control makes it lose all shield, which leaves it with 20 hp..
I mean for fucks sake the queen costs the same as a muta, has the same hp as a muta and flies as fast as a muta. however one ensnare or one broodling is normally far more effective than the damage dealt by *one* muta.
True t.t
I did suggest a cost increase though, but maybe that'd bring more good than bad. Yeah -_-;
And yeah, I just keep forgetting how DAMN expensive the dark archon is O_O
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On February 25 2004 12:18 CrazedZergling . wrote:
Many T and P players dont understand how much the Zerg has to manage, all over the map when they ask why Zerg players dont use queens more. Queens cost 100min/100gas and a lot of micro time.
My suggestion to make them useable is to make them cost like 150/200, give them enough HP to survive 1 irradiate, and lower broodling to 100, ensnare to 50, parasite to 50.
What this does is it makes them cost more, but also more powerful, so instead of having 6 queens to micro, you only need 3 to do the same job. This will fix the main problem of too much micro required.
Sometimes when I feel like screwing around I join a pub team 3:3 game and get a cloud of like 30 queens and broodling the dragoons/goliath armies they send at me nonstop.
I don't know what kind of 3vs3 you do but......find it a little too impossible?-_-
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Sweden33719 Posts
On February 25 2004 12:18 CrazedZergling . wrote:
Many T and P players dont understand how much the Zerg has to manage, all over the map when they ask why Zerg players dont use queens more. Queens cost 100min/100gas and a lot of micro time.
My suggestion to make them useable is to make them cost like 150/200, give them enough HP to survive 1 irradiate, and lower broodling to 100, ensnare to 50, parasite to 50.
What this does is it makes them cost more, but also more powerful, so instead of having 6 queens to micro, you only need 3 to do the same job. This will fix the main problem of too much micro required.
Sometimes when I feel like screwing around I join a pub team 3:3 game and get a cloud of like 30 queens and broodling the dragoons/goliath armies they send at me nonstop.
Yes that'd be nice.. My entire moving at a speed of 1 cm/hour. With 2 second peaks as he is aiming his queens--;;;
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On February 25 2004 12:18 CrazedZergling . wrote:
Many T and P players dont understand how much the Zerg has to manage, all over the map when they ask why Zerg players dont use queens more. Queens cost 100min/100gas and a lot of micro time.
My suggestion to make them useable is to make them cost like 150/200, give them enough HP to survive 1 irradiate, and lower broodling to 100, ensnare to 50, parasite to 50.
What this does is it makes them cost more, but also more powerful, so instead of having 6 queens to micro, you only need 3 to do the same job. This will fix the main problem of too much micro required.
Sometimes when I feel like screwing around I join a pub team 3:3 game and get a cloud of like 30 queens and broodling the dragoons/goliath armies they send at me nonstop.
Dude if you have problems with macroing learn to not Sauron so you don't have as many Hatcheries to manage.
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I suggest getting rid of optical flare which is next to useless because, if there's just another unit there that's not blinded, it's void. If you shoot at it, it's void, because if it's ranged, it can shoot back, and if it's melee, what's the point (use general logic, please ._.;? You just walk up to the other unit and you just attack. Add the insane energy cost (what is it, like 75?), and it's just useless. You have to keep in mind that most people just keep their obs grouped when they have carries, and we're not all Boxers that can blind 5 obs before we bring in cloaked wraiths. K.
Taking that into consideration, I purpose we let the Medic have a mini d-matrix that lasts forever, and can absorb like 10-15 hp of damage, and will cost ~50 mana, or ~75 mana, or whatever.
Anyone? :o
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I say we just revert back to 1.07, that was the best balance the game ever had imo. Either that or.....
LEAVE WELL ENOUGH ALONE!!! Game balance is fine, let's not try to fix things that aren't broken.
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Norway28675 Posts
optical flare is occasionally really sweet. like say for example you're defending against a 1 hatch lurker rush and you won't have enough detection in time, then you can instead of researching stim research optical flare just so you can blind their lord thus making them unable to kill the bunker on your ledge. :-)
granted that's one of the very few times it is useful, but considering how great heal is and inexpensive medics are, I don't think you should make them more powerful.
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I hate you Drone. I'm no GARIMTO or BoxeR, I'm not some ingenius starcraft strategist that ushers in a new era of BW by inventing new strategies. However, I did think of ONE practical use for optical flare besides weird stuff like nuking and cloaked wraiths. All by my own, I devised a counter to 1 hatch lurker by blinding the overlord. Drone I almost cried when I read your post. Now no one will love me when I amaze the word with my TvZ optical flare strategy.
GOD DAMNIT
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I saw it three years ago =(?
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Germany / USA16648 Posts
tame ich will ein kind von dir :/
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I'd like to see Restoration brought up to par. 75 energy to cure one unit of an ailment, excluding stasis? =[ Maybe, 100 energy, make it an area of effect spell. Or, 50 energy and one target.
If anyone has rep/vod of ProGamer using restoration, link me plz. =[
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On February 25 2004 10:56 GroT wrote:
queens are already more than powerful enough, it's not the game's fault that zerg players don't use them
Maybe they dont use them cause they're not powerful enough
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queens are more powerful then average players realize IMO. these changes would make them even more powerful! im not sure, maybe just have them start with more energy as some people have said.
hard balance question =)?
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On February 25 2004 14:08 Oxygen wrote: I suggest getting rid of optical flare which is next to useless because, if there's just another unit there that's not blinded, it's void. If you shoot at it, it's void, because if it's ranged, it can shoot back, and if it's melee, what's the point (use general logic, please ._.; ? You just walk up to the other unit and you just attack. Add the insane energy cost (what is it, like 75?), and it's just useless. You have to keep in mind that most people just keep their obs grouped when they have carries, and we're not all Boxers that can blind 5 obs before we bring in cloaked wraiths. K. Taking that into consideration, I purpose we let the Medic have a mini d-matrix that lasts forever, and can absorb like 10-15 hp of damage, and will cost ~50 mana, or ~75 mana, or whatever. Anyone? :o
a) flare is very useful once you decided to use them properly. i've done quite a lot of matches vs p with like 3 or 4 medics and i can tell u it's a pain in the ass for toss. actually the protoss has to continue building obsers during the whole game and you can stop his early pushes with ~6 clicks/hotkeys. you can also use flares vs z as long as he doesn't have speed for his overlords (nuke his base if you're up to some fun or go wraith and blind his ol from far away).
b) i don't get what that new spell should add and i guess blizzard would call that small change a full expansion set...
ps: i don't want anything changed at all. actually i like the fact that only a few ppl use stuff like maelstrom or ensnare...
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if anything should be changed first, it should be something that makes more maps playable in more matchups. right now it takes very specific, narrow specifications to make a map playable for pvz while also playable for zvt tvp
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EPT
