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Actually VNlegend, it doesn't make Idra look more awesome. Just because you endure so much bs you don't have to be BM towards people. You can still treat people right.
How would you like it if the neighborhood bum won the lottery and walked around badmouthing everyone in the community and saying crap?
Now lately I am beginning to like Idra a bit.
I hope Ret stays for one more Courage
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On December 28 2009 01:42 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2009 01:38 m8 wrote:On December 28 2009 00:51 ret wrote:
just to clarify a few things:
As far as the games went, first game he went 9 pool I went 12 pool. I stopped his lings, then stopped muta/ling harass and won the game off 2 gas mutas eventually.
2nd game he scouted me first, I had went 12 pool again and he went 12 hatch, I couldn't pressure him w/ lings, then made 2 too many drones and lost quickly to non stop lings off 2 hatch.
3rd game ( I believe this one is recorded ) I went 12 hatch and he went 12 pool, he made drones early when he saw my 12 hat, it was on hbr so we actually scouted each other normally, then I failed to do any damage with lings, and when I was about to, 4 mutas popped so I had to pull back 14 lings that i couldnt do anything with, bad judgement on my part. After that I actually decided to get muta armor because I am completly unconfident doing muta / scourge vs muta / scourge with a korean. Because of that however I lost a muta battle a little bit before my upgrade finished, he had more, and his control was far better.
My living conditions have not been anything like what people here think.
I have been living with artosis for the past 3 weeks (poor guy has spent maybe 3 days alone in his new appartment he got in august lol), before that I was in the estro house for 2,5 weeks. Before that I was staying at IEF hotels/living with artosis for a month. There were a lot of differences between what estro wanted, what I wanted, and my expectations of living with a team were a lot different than reality. Details are not really important but for one nobody really played with me and the coaches didn't show any interest. It was really hard to stay motivated the past little while, wether it was in estro or sitting in a pc bang, grinding away at iccup for x ammount of hours a day anonomyously and unable to play with friends because of 'lag' has been really difficult. There were a lot of things on the side that really bothered me and them (estro) as well, things I did wrong on my part. Combined with how it all started, me coming over and being 'kicked' out for a month b/c of the false replay thing etc, it was just a far from ideal situation. I couldn't live there anymore, I was miserable there, however I didn't want to give up on the 'progamer dream' either. I'm actually really surprised people didn't catch on when I started streaming again, when you live in a progamer house your schedual is 12 hours 7 days a week so there would never be any time to stream. =P
My plan was to do well at courage and try to find a different team, but since I lost in the 1st round, not once, but twice, I don't know how feasible that is now. Those results look REALLY REALLY bad to just about anyone, not to mention what it does to my self-image and self-confidence when it comes to sc. I am extremely dissapointed with what I have done since I've gone to Korea. I got raped by terror[fou] in IEF, lost twice to people who are not really anything special in courage, and in general am still struggling hard at the A- level on iccup. I don't want to give up, but I also can't just stay for another X ammount of month in Korea troubling artosis with a roommate and spending money playing out of a pc bang and having to pay for daily food etc. Even though my training scheduales have been far from ideal, I have a hard time believing someone like kolll or dimaga would do this bad.
I'm really not sure what to do now. I know people will propably encourage you and tell you not to give up and to keep trying, but please ret, be realistic. This whole Korea thing was not a very good idea. Even if you somehow manage to get the license, no matter if it is by winning courage or just getting it free from the team, the license is the very first and propably the easiest step. The chances for you to succeed in getting a name among korean progamers is ridiculously low, even if you were korean yourself. There is no offense here, i've been a fan of yours since i first heard of you. But come on, do you want to end up like Idra? His position is maybe the best a foreigner can get after going to Korea - being a B-teamer and dominating the foreign scene. I dont want my favorite SC Player to become just another basement kid on any team. Not every dream does come true, even if you give your best. So do yourself a favour and go back home to once again become the best foreigner instead of becoming one of the worst progamers. Go on with your life and enjoy being the best outside korea. This option is much better than giving up your life to propably not make it big in Korea after all. @Everyone who is going to flame me: I don't care. This is what I'm talking about, lol.
This is an example of someone treating ret as if he is not a member of the community? Please explain.
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Win or lose, Courage or TSL2, I cheer for RET.
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This topic made me appreciate the CJ team even more and my respect for the whole estro team sank.
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Ugh bummer. :/ I hope things work out, one way or the other, gl ret!
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Calgary25973 Posts
On December 28 2009 01:51 cz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2009 01:42 Chill wrote:On December 28 2009 01:38 m8 wrote:On December 28 2009 00:51 ret wrote:
just to clarify a few things:
As far as the games went, first game he went 9 pool I went 12 pool. I stopped his lings, then stopped muta/ling harass and won the game off 2 gas mutas eventually.
2nd game he scouted me first, I had went 12 pool again and he went 12 hatch, I couldn't pressure him w/ lings, then made 2 too many drones and lost quickly to non stop lings off 2 hatch.
3rd game ( I believe this one is recorded ) I went 12 hatch and he went 12 pool, he made drones early when he saw my 12 hat, it was on hbr so we actually scouted each other normally, then I failed to do any damage with lings, and when I was about to, 4 mutas popped so I had to pull back 14 lings that i couldnt do anything with, bad judgement on my part. After that I actually decided to get muta armor because I am completly unconfident doing muta / scourge vs muta / scourge with a korean. Because of that however I lost a muta battle a little bit before my upgrade finished, he had more, and his control was far better.
My living conditions have not been anything like what people here think.
I have been living with artosis for the past 3 weeks (poor guy has spent maybe 3 days alone in his new appartment he got in august lol), before that I was in the estro house for 2,5 weeks. Before that I was staying at IEF hotels/living with artosis for a month. There were a lot of differences between what estro wanted, what I wanted, and my expectations of living with a team were a lot different than reality. Details are not really important but for one nobody really played with me and the coaches didn't show any interest. It was really hard to stay motivated the past little while, wether it was in estro or sitting in a pc bang, grinding away at iccup for x ammount of hours a day anonomyously and unable to play with friends because of 'lag' has been really difficult. There were a lot of things on the side that really bothered me and them (estro) as well, things I did wrong on my part. Combined with how it all started, me coming over and being 'kicked' out for a month b/c of the false replay thing etc, it was just a far from ideal situation. I couldn't live there anymore, I was miserable there, however I didn't want to give up on the 'progamer dream' either. I'm actually really surprised people didn't catch on when I started streaming again, when you live in a progamer house your schedual is 12 hours 7 days a week so there would never be any time to stream. =P
My plan was to do well at courage and try to find a different team, but since I lost in the 1st round, not once, but twice, I don't know how feasible that is now. Those results look REALLY REALLY bad to just about anyone, not to mention what it does to my self-image and self-confidence when it comes to sc. I am extremely dissapointed with what I have done since I've gone to Korea. I got raped by terror[fou] in IEF, lost twice to people who are not really anything special in courage, and in general am still struggling hard at the A- level on iccup. I don't want to give up, but I also can't just stay for another X ammount of month in Korea troubling artosis with a roommate and spending money playing out of a pc bang and having to pay for daily food etc. Even though my training scheduales have been far from ideal, I have a hard time believing someone like kolll or dimaga would do this bad.
I'm really not sure what to do now. I know people will propably encourage you and tell you not to give up and to keep trying, but please ret, be realistic. This whole Korea thing was not a very good idea. Even if you somehow manage to get the license, no matter if it is by winning courage or just getting it free from the team, the license is the very first and propably the easiest step. The chances for you to succeed in getting a name among korean progamers is ridiculously low, even if you were korean yourself. There is no offense here, i've been a fan of yours since i first heard of you. But come on, do you want to end up like Idra? His position is maybe the best a foreigner can get after going to Korea - being a B-teamer and dominating the foreign scene. I dont want my favorite SC Player to become just another basement kid on any team. Not every dream does come true, even if you give your best. So do yourself a favour and go back home to once again become the best foreigner instead of becoming one of the worst progamers. Go on with your life and enjoy being the best outside korea. This option is much better than giving up your life to propably not make it big in Korea after all. @Everyone who is going to flame me: I don't care. This is what I'm talking about, lol. Just so long as you don't take it out on all of us, with "kid" and "fucking" judiciously sprinkled in, say what you want.
That's fair. I took that tone because I was shocked that people could think it's okay to post like that. Even now many people don't seem to thinking judging a member of our community is an issue.
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Noooo ret  Why is zvz so hard for you? Is it because you've always been a macro player and zvz is the matchup that requires the least macro? Is it the rock paper scissors bo's? Is it th fact that you can't snipe scourge??? I want answers!! I can't just see ret 1-2 first round and not demand an explanation!
And if what IdrA says is true - that estro treats foreigners like crap - then I salute ret for leaving
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hoping the best for you Ret, living the dream or not
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On December 28 2009 01:56 Ganfei wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2009 01:42 Chill wrote:On December 28 2009 01:38 m8 wrote:On December 28 2009 00:51 ret wrote:
just to clarify a few things:
As far as the games went, first game he went 9 pool I went 12 pool. I stopped his lings, then stopped muta/ling harass and won the game off 2 gas mutas eventually.
2nd game he scouted me first, I had went 12 pool again and he went 12 hatch, I couldn't pressure him w/ lings, then made 2 too many drones and lost quickly to non stop lings off 2 hatch.
3rd game ( I believe this one is recorded ) I went 12 hatch and he went 12 pool, he made drones early when he saw my 12 hat, it was on hbr so we actually scouted each other normally, then I failed to do any damage with lings, and when I was about to, 4 mutas popped so I had to pull back 14 lings that i couldnt do anything with, bad judgement on my part. After that I actually decided to get muta armor because I am completly unconfident doing muta / scourge vs muta / scourge with a korean. Because of that however I lost a muta battle a little bit before my upgrade finished, he had more, and his control was far better.
My living conditions have not been anything like what people here think.
I have been living with artosis for the past 3 weeks (poor guy has spent maybe 3 days alone in his new appartment he got in august lol), before that I was in the estro house for 2,5 weeks. Before that I was staying at IEF hotels/living with artosis for a month. There were a lot of differences between what estro wanted, what I wanted, and my expectations of living with a team were a lot different than reality. Details are not really important but for one nobody really played with me and the coaches didn't show any interest. It was really hard to stay motivated the past little while, wether it was in estro or sitting in a pc bang, grinding away at iccup for x ammount of hours a day anonomyously and unable to play with friends because of 'lag' has been really difficult. There were a lot of things on the side that really bothered me and them (estro) as well, things I did wrong on my part. Combined with how it all started, me coming over and being 'kicked' out for a month b/c of the false replay thing etc, it was just a far from ideal situation. I couldn't live there anymore, I was miserable there, however I didn't want to give up on the 'progamer dream' either. I'm actually really surprised people didn't catch on when I started streaming again, when you live in a progamer house your schedual is 12 hours 7 days a week so there would never be any time to stream. =P
My plan was to do well at courage and try to find a different team, but since I lost in the 1st round, not once, but twice, I don't know how feasible that is now. Those results look REALLY REALLY bad to just about anyone, not to mention what it does to my self-image and self-confidence when it comes to sc. I am extremely dissapointed with what I have done since I've gone to Korea. I got raped by terror[fou] in IEF, lost twice to people who are not really anything special in courage, and in general am still struggling hard at the A- level on iccup. I don't want to give up, but I also can't just stay for another X ammount of month in Korea troubling artosis with a roommate and spending money playing out of a pc bang and having to pay for daily food etc. Even though my training scheduales have been far from ideal, I have a hard time believing someone like kolll or dimaga would do this bad.
I'm really not sure what to do now. I know people will propably encourage you and tell you not to give up and to keep trying, but please ret, be realistic. This whole Korea thing was not a very good idea. Even if you somehow manage to get the license, no matter if it is by winning courage or just getting it free from the team, the license is the very first and propably the easiest step. The chances for you to succeed in getting a name among korean progamers is ridiculously low, even if you were korean yourself. There is no offense here, i've been a fan of yours since i first heard of you. But come on, do you want to end up like Idra? His position is maybe the best a foreigner can get after going to Korea - being a B-teamer and dominating the foreign scene. I dont want my favorite SC Player to become just another basement kid on any team. Not every dream does come true, even if you give your best. So do yourself a favour and go back home to once again become the best foreigner instead of becoming one of the worst progamers. Go on with your life and enjoy being the best outside korea. This option is much better than giving up your life to propably not make it big in Korea after all. @Everyone who is going to flame me: I don't care. This is what I'm talking about, lol. This is an example of someone treating ret as if he is not a member of the community? Please explain.
Maybe not exactly that. But it's a good example of someone treating ret like he is stupid and can't think for himself. Even before going to Korea, ret along with all his friends have given this a million times more thought more than this poster or anyone else here.
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Ret, you were chosen to go over there because you're one of the best foreigners hands down. Don't forget that. You should consider taking a couple days off from starcraft and having a shitload of fun
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sorry to hear of the outcome. good luck in whatever you decide to do.
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Ret... T_T
Please stay and keep trying. Don't give up. All it takes is one good day.
And don't be so down. You won't win if you're so down... Keep up a happy mentality and win Courage for us. 
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I think it's pretty obvious that Ret is a smart guy. I don't imagine he's basing his decision on what he reads on the forums. He'll probably ask around and see if there is any interest in giving him a shot. Things don't work out all the time in life - Estro obviously didn't want to give him a fair chance, either do to a mistake or just an outright decision by the management.
I don't think Ret is going to say "God this is hard, I'm quitting." I also don't think he's going to waste years of his life if he doesn't see any light at the end of the tunnel. SC2 is going to come out next year, and if Ret wants to participate in that community as well then he couldn't be in a better position. He'll need to find a way to make some income in the meantime, but its all up to him.
Everyone offering their advice in this thread is probably just wasting his/her time. Just say good luck, and hope for the best. <3<3 Retje!!
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Ok, I'm an anti-fan of eSTRO now
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I love you no matter what ret!
On the other side, its a good position to be in once SCII beta hits (which shouldnt be too far in the future) if you want to become professional at that. And also being able to dominate foreign scene...
Im not passing judgement here or anything, im sure you have taken all aspects into consideration during these past months.
It would be awesome if CJ somehow could pick up another foreigner so Idra and Ret could hang out together, dunno if thats possible though.
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I love ret but all this talk about trying to "protect" him by ONLY giving him encouragement is silly. (the coddling is pretty nauseating). Whenever someone becomes prominent that doesn't exclude them from being talked about both positively and negatively. Very few of us here have been blatantly offensively negative about ret's situation.
All of us obviously continue to wish ret the best in whatever he does be it SC or real life.
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well ret, I can't give you any advise. But I get the feeling that cheering for you in korea makes you feel burdened to stick around there. Don't live a joyless life over there on my behalf.
But if you can, do win TSL2 :D
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It's still strange how some people think one can go over there and be the next flash in under a year. Some of the best progamers today actively practiced for years to be where they are right now. We can talk about the small gap from a to b teamers down to semi-profesionals all we want, there are S-class progamers who beat others on a constant basis. And these "others" would simply rape the shit out of our best players.
In other words, the margin of error is so small today but that doesnt mean we dont have huge differences in skill.
Personaly i think ret is one of the most interesting zerg players we have and i watch his stream a lot. But if you want to do this ret, you need to hardcore your way trough like the baddest motherfucker, each and everyday. This is a train that wont wait for you, you need to catch it yourself. And we are all down with you man, all the fucking way. It's the same with IdrA. You two are both in a foreign country, far away from home use your brains boys, fucking do this. Break trough your own walls, climb new heights and power up level per level per level.
We do all cheer for you guys, yes even the haters.
Shit on all that negativ bullshit, wake up everyday and tell yourself "today i'm going to be a better, faster and stronger player than the day before!!" And i'm shure with that mentality both of you can do what none of us can. And i'm shure the rest of the community feels the same. That's why we're a community in the first place!
Do it guys!
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Perhaps Idra could pull some strings and ask if CJ wants a good foreign zerg. He is kind of established so perhaps you can give the coach or what not of CJ a good word about Ret.
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Imagine you where an eStro player. There's this new white kid that you can barely speak to, and he plays like a noob. He is a couple of years older than you and a teammate tells you that he may have cheated your team by giving out replays. Would you want to play with that guy? Would you even want him around in the house?
Ret, i hope that you find the motivation to try for a third Courage run. If that one is another disaster you should consider stopping that whole Pro-Gamer in Korea thingie. Another option is to quit right now, fly home and focus on winning the TSL2.
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EPT
