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I just don't understand why exactly everything happened. Ret goes to korea at the invitation of eSTRO, then nobody there will play him? Or did that only happen after the replay scandal thing and the resulting loss of trust?
edit: Can someone also fill me in on what happened with Idra in eSTRO? Apparently it was the same?
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I guess this is just further proof that one need to learn the language before attempting something like this. I can imagine it would be way easier to get into the team if you could communicate with them all properly, I mean who can blame them when they don't understand a word?
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cz, yep I just started a thread about a donation to Ret titled:
TL!! Donation plate for Ret to stay in Korea.
Plus TL is a tight knit community and we help everyone out and Ret is part of this community!!!
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ret, you don't look half bad perhaps you could find "work".
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Calgary25998 Posts
On December 27 2009 21:47 2longbe4 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2009 21:32 Chill wrote:
Also, why do you kids talk about ret like someone who doesn't read the forum? He's an active member of our community for God's sake. Everything that's written, gets read. Why do you kids who don't have a fucking clue feel the need to analyse and judge a situation you have no idea about? Either wish him the best, encourage him, or don't, but don't try to judge and break down a situation that you have zero idea about. That's just plain ignorant. People speculate because we dont have the first hand info about Ret like you apparently. If you know something just share it, or if its a secret just keep it to yourself and dont get anrgy at people just because you know more.
I can understand that, but imagine you are in his situation - an active member of the forum who has to come to a thread and read people judging you like this:
On December 28 2009 00:16 AstraBoy wrote:On December 28 2009 00:13 Robinsa wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2009 00:09 AstraBoy wrote:
This happens when a foreigners meets a korean in an important tourney, and not in a bnet game, or a sm.
Sorry for ret fans but he wont go far, koreans are just in another level (and im talking about tourneys where koreans really care) The reason koreans are better is because they got a better system for training players. I can't see why a foreigner can't become as skilled if given the same circumstances, wich is what Idra and ret are given atm. Edit: GOGO! Keep fighting ret and Idra! Show em koreans! 
LANGUAGE and you really think, a coach will waste his time paying more attention to a foreigner than a korean?
And:
On December 27 2009 21:13 1984 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2009 21:00 sleeepy wrote:
Why do all the foreigners start at estro if all we hear about estro is poor treatment of foreigners? I think it's something like this, for foreigners in general: 1) some guy is accepted without skill to back it up, just cause he's a foreigner, and thus taking place of more skilled Korean 2) language and different mentality and specifically in case of ret: 3) leaked replays (doesn't matter if ret really leaked them) 4) general attitude (like watching Dexter, lol) Imo the only solution is to play like insane, if estro players don't want to then play iccup, brain, just something and gradually, slowly earn respect, or just quit and go back home. Note: I obviously don't have first-hand experience, so it's all just theory, but I'm pretty much sure it's close to the truth.
Specifically the second one. I'm not coming here to say "HAHAH I WAS IN KOREA" because I hardly saw Ret the entire time I was there. I don't know shit about what he went through, which is why I keep my mouth shut and tell him to try his best. The above people are talking about him like he isn't a close member of our community and it needs to stop.
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On December 28 2009 01:20 mmgoose wrote:
ret, you don't look half bad perhaps you could find "work".
If he wants to go that way he might as well go back to Netherlands, its not very probable he can both work and practice enough to be able to compete in courage.
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omg, my thread about a TL donation to Ret was taken away!! Did I do something wrong?????
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hey young world
the world is yours
dont fight the direction of life, there's gonna be some ups and downs
and we wish you the best, ret!
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Netherlands4522 Posts
zergpower, taking money from people who love the game just to further fund a journey that has very little prospect right now is just about the last thing I want to do, and shouldn't be rushed into.
I really appreciate your support, but It's not really the appropiate time atm.
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On December 28 2009 01:24 Puosu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2009 01:20 mmgoose wrote:
ret, you don't look half bad perhaps you could find "work". If he wants to go that way he might as well go back to Netherlands, its not very probable he can both work and practice enough to be able to compete in courage.
i wasn't referring to a 9 to 5.
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Ret, don't give up!!! Perhaps try one more Courage!! You know the saying "3rd times the charm!"
One last thing, don't ever be afraid to ask for help! We stand behind you Ret and if you need any funds, TL will be the first to help you out !!!!
Now go practice for TSL2 and kick some butt! Win TSL2!!!!!
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It sounds like language is the barrier. Idra was lucky to have a few people who can coach him in english, ret doesn't have that luxury. Idra tweeted at one point that he was taking classes to learn korean.
Anyone else who has similar aspirations might torrent a copy of rosetta stone and try to get some functional korean under their belt so they can at least request/discuss games.
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On December 28 2009 00:51 ret wrote:
just to clarify a few things:
As far as the games went, first game he went 9 pool I went 12 pool. I stopped his lings, then stopped muta/ling harass and won the game off 2 gas mutas eventually.
2nd game he scouted me first, I had went 12 pool again and he went 12 hatch, I couldn't pressure him w/ lings, then made 2 too many drones and lost quickly to non stop lings off 2 hatch.
3rd game ( I believe this one is recorded ) I went 12 hatch and he went 12 pool, he made drones early when he saw my 12 hat, it was on hbr so we actually scouted each other normally, then I failed to do any damage with lings, and when I was about to, 4 mutas popped so I had to pull back 14 lings that i couldnt do anything with, bad judgement on my part. After that I actually decided to get muta armor because I am completly unconfident doing muta / scourge vs muta / scourge with a korean. Because of that however I lost a muta battle a little bit before my upgrade finished, he had more, and his control was far better.
My living conditions have not been anything like what people here think.
I have been living with artosis for the past 3 weeks (poor guy has spent maybe 3 days alone in his new appartment he got in august lol), before that I was in the estro house for 2,5 weeks. Before that I was staying at IEF hotels/living with artosis for a month. There were a lot of differences between what estro wanted, what I wanted, and my expectations of living with a team were a lot different than reality. Details are not really important but for one nobody really played with me and the coaches didn't show any interest. It was really hard to stay motivated the past little while, wether it was in estro or sitting in a pc bang, grinding away at iccup for x ammount of hours a day anonomyously and unable to play with friends because of 'lag' has been really difficult. There were a lot of things on the side that really bothered me and them (estro) as well, things I did wrong on my part. Combined with how it all started, me coming over and being 'kicked' out for a month b/c of the false replay thing etc, it was just a far from ideal situation. I couldn't live there anymore, I was miserable there, however I didn't want to give up on the 'progamer dream' either. I'm actually really surprised people didn't catch on when I started streaming again, when you live in a progamer house your schedual is 12 hours 7 days a week so there would never be any time to stream. =P
My plan was to do well at courage and try to find a different team, but since I lost in the 1st round, not once, but twice, I don't know how feasible that is now. Those results look REALLY REALLY bad to just about anyone, not to mention what it does to my self-image and self-confidence when it comes to sc. I am extremely dissapointed with what I have done since I've gone to Korea. I got raped by terror[fou] in IEF, lost twice to people who are not really anything special in courage, and in general am still struggling hard at the A- level on iccup. I don't want to give up, but I also can't just stay for another X ammount of month in Korea troubling artosis with a roommate and spending money playing out of a pc bang and having to pay for daily food etc. Even though my training scheduales have been far from ideal, I have a hard time believing someone like kolll or dimaga would do this bad.
I'm really not sure what to do now.
I know people will propably encourage you and tell you not to give up and to keep trying, but please ret, be realistic.
This whole Korea thing was not a very good idea. Even if you somehow manage to get the license, no matter if it is by winning courage or just getting it free from the team, the license is the very first and propably the easiest step. The chances for you to succeed in getting a name among korean progamers is ridiculously low, even if you were korean yourself. There is no offense here, i've been a fan of yours since i first heard of you. But come on, do you want to end up like Idra? His position is maybe the best a foreigner can get after going to Korea - being a B-teamer and dominating the foreign scene.
I dont want my favorite SC Player to become just another basement kid on any team.
Not every dream does come true, even if you give your best. So do yourself a favour and go back home to once again become the best foreigner instead of becoming one of the worst progamers. Go on with your life and enjoy being the best outside korea. This option is much better than giving up your life to propably not make it big in Korea after all.
@Everyone who is going to flame me: I don't care.
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Calgary25998 Posts
On December 28 2009 01:38 m8 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2009 00:51 ret wrote:
just to clarify a few things:
As far as the games went, first game he went 9 pool I went 12 pool. I stopped his lings, then stopped muta/ling harass and won the game off 2 gas mutas eventually.
2nd game he scouted me first, I had went 12 pool again and he went 12 hatch, I couldn't pressure him w/ lings, then made 2 too many drones and lost quickly to non stop lings off 2 hatch.
3rd game ( I believe this one is recorded ) I went 12 hatch and he went 12 pool, he made drones early when he saw my 12 hat, it was on hbr so we actually scouted each other normally, then I failed to do any damage with lings, and when I was about to, 4 mutas popped so I had to pull back 14 lings that i couldnt do anything with, bad judgement on my part. After that I actually decided to get muta armor because I am completly unconfident doing muta / scourge vs muta / scourge with a korean. Because of that however I lost a muta battle a little bit before my upgrade finished, he had more, and his control was far better.
My living conditions have not been anything like what people here think.
I have been living with artosis for the past 3 weeks (poor guy has spent maybe 3 days alone in his new appartment he got in august lol), before that I was in the estro house for 2,5 weeks. Before that I was staying at IEF hotels/living with artosis for a month. There were a lot of differences between what estro wanted, what I wanted, and my expectations of living with a team were a lot different than reality. Details are not really important but for one nobody really played with me and the coaches didn't show any interest. It was really hard to stay motivated the past little while, wether it was in estro or sitting in a pc bang, grinding away at iccup for x ammount of hours a day anonomyously and unable to play with friends because of 'lag' has been really difficult. There were a lot of things on the side that really bothered me and them (estro) as well, things I did wrong on my part. Combined with how it all started, me coming over and being 'kicked' out for a month b/c of the false replay thing etc, it was just a far from ideal situation. I couldn't live there anymore, I was miserable there, however I didn't want to give up on the 'progamer dream' either. I'm actually really surprised people didn't catch on when I started streaming again, when you live in a progamer house your schedual is 12 hours 7 days a week so there would never be any time to stream. =P
My plan was to do well at courage and try to find a different team, but since I lost in the 1st round, not once, but twice, I don't know how feasible that is now. Those results look REALLY REALLY bad to just about anyone, not to mention what it does to my self-image and self-confidence when it comes to sc. I am extremely dissapointed with what I have done since I've gone to Korea. I got raped by terror[fou] in IEF, lost twice to people who are not really anything special in courage, and in general am still struggling hard at the A- level on iccup. I don't want to give up, but I also can't just stay for another X ammount of month in Korea troubling artosis with a roommate and spending money playing out of a pc bang and having to pay for daily food etc. Even though my training scheduales have been far from ideal, I have a hard time believing someone like kolll or dimaga would do this bad.
I'm really not sure what to do now. I know people will propably encourage you and tell you not to give up and to keep trying, but please ret, be realistic. This whole Korea thing was not a very good idea. Even if you somehow manage to get the license, no matter if it is by winning courage or just getting it free from the team, the license is the very first and propably the easiest step. The chances for you to succeed in getting a name among korean progamers is ridiculously low, even if you were korean yourself. There is no offense here, i've been a fan of yours since i first heard of you. But come on, do you want to end up like Idra? His position is maybe the best a foreigner can get after going to Korea - being a B-teamer and dominating the foreign scene. I dont want my favorite SC Player to become just another basement kid on any team. Not every dream does come true, even if you give your best. So do yourself a favour and go back home to once again become the best foreigner instead of becoming one of the worst progamers. Go on with your life and enjoy being the best outside korea. This option is much better than giving up your life to propably not make it big in Korea after all. @Everyone who is going to flame me: I don't care.
This is what I'm talking about, lol.
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Chill yes we have to speculate because we are not like u that we know everything
and to us regular user who does not know any imporatant people we just dont get the info so we speculate... after how long officialy knew that ret was kicked for first time and then another time?
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On December 28 2009 01:42 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2009 01:38 m8 wrote:On December 28 2009 00:51 ret wrote:
just to clarify a few things:
As far as the games went, first game he went 9 pool I went 12 pool. I stopped his lings, then stopped muta/ling harass and won the game off 2 gas mutas eventually.
2nd game he scouted me first, I had went 12 pool again and he went 12 hatch, I couldn't pressure him w/ lings, then made 2 too many drones and lost quickly to non stop lings off 2 hatch.
3rd game ( I believe this one is recorded ) I went 12 hatch and he went 12 pool, he made drones early when he saw my 12 hat, it was on hbr so we actually scouted each other normally, then I failed to do any damage with lings, and when I was about to, 4 mutas popped so I had to pull back 14 lings that i couldnt do anything with, bad judgement on my part. After that I actually decided to get muta armor because I am completly unconfident doing muta / scourge vs muta / scourge with a korean. Because of that however I lost a muta battle a little bit before my upgrade finished, he had more, and his control was far better.
My living conditions have not been anything like what people here think.
I have been living with artosis for the past 3 weeks (poor guy has spent maybe 3 days alone in his new appartment he got in august lol), before that I was in the estro house for 2,5 weeks. Before that I was staying at IEF hotels/living with artosis for a month. There were a lot of differences between what estro wanted, what I wanted, and my expectations of living with a team were a lot different than reality. Details are not really important but for one nobody really played with me and the coaches didn't show any interest. It was really hard to stay motivated the past little while, wether it was in estro or sitting in a pc bang, grinding away at iccup for x ammount of hours a day anonomyously and unable to play with friends because of 'lag' has been really difficult. There were a lot of things on the side that really bothered me and them (estro) as well, things I did wrong on my part. Combined with how it all started, me coming over and being 'kicked' out for a month b/c of the false replay thing etc, it was just a far from ideal situation. I couldn't live there anymore, I was miserable there, however I didn't want to give up on the 'progamer dream' either. I'm actually really surprised people didn't catch on when I started streaming again, when you live in a progamer house your schedual is 12 hours 7 days a week so there would never be any time to stream. =P
My plan was to do well at courage and try to find a different team, but since I lost in the 1st round, not once, but twice, I don't know how feasible that is now. Those results look REALLY REALLY bad to just about anyone, not to mention what it does to my self-image and self-confidence when it comes to sc. I am extremely dissapointed with what I have done since I've gone to Korea. I got raped by terror[fou] in IEF, lost twice to people who are not really anything special in courage, and in general am still struggling hard at the A- level on iccup. I don't want to give up, but I also can't just stay for another X ammount of month in Korea troubling artosis with a roommate and spending money playing out of a pc bang and having to pay for daily food etc. Even though my training scheduales have been far from ideal, I have a hard time believing someone like kolll or dimaga would do this bad.
I'm really not sure what to do now. I know people will propably encourage you and tell you not to give up and to keep trying, but please ret, be realistic. This whole Korea thing was not a very good idea. Even if you somehow manage to get the license, no matter if it is by winning courage or just getting it free from the team, the license is the very first and propably the easiest step. The chances for you to succeed in getting a name among korean progamers is ridiculously low, even if you were korean yourself. There is no offense here, i've been a fan of yours since i first heard of you. But come on, do you want to end up like Idra? His position is maybe the best a foreigner can get after going to Korea - being a B-teamer and dominating the foreign scene. I dont want my favorite SC Player to become just another basement kid on any team. Not every dream does come true, even if you give your best. So do yourself a favour and go back home to once again become the best foreigner instead of becoming one of the worst progamers. Go on with your life and enjoy being the best outside korea. This option is much better than giving up your life to propably not make it big in Korea after all. @Everyone who is going to flame me: I don't care. This is what I'm talking about, lol.
rofl, no chill, this guy knows what's best!
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Hmm. This whole thing actually makes Idra look more awesome (although I don't like him). He's quietly endured all the BS of being a foreigner in Korea while still improving his skills and winning vs weaker Koreans.
Personally, at 24 yrs old, I'd keep SC as a hobby and pursue careers with good financial prospects.
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On December 28 2009 01:42 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2009 01:38 m8 wrote:On December 28 2009 00:51 ret wrote:
just to clarify a few things:
As far as the games went, first game he went 9 pool I went 12 pool. I stopped his lings, then stopped muta/ling harass and won the game off 2 gas mutas eventually.
2nd game he scouted me first, I had went 12 pool again and he went 12 hatch, I couldn't pressure him w/ lings, then made 2 too many drones and lost quickly to non stop lings off 2 hatch.
3rd game ( I believe this one is recorded ) I went 12 hatch and he went 12 pool, he made drones early when he saw my 12 hat, it was on hbr so we actually scouted each other normally, then I failed to do any damage with lings, and when I was about to, 4 mutas popped so I had to pull back 14 lings that i couldnt do anything with, bad judgement on my part. After that I actually decided to get muta armor because I am completly unconfident doing muta / scourge vs muta / scourge with a korean. Because of that however I lost a muta battle a little bit before my upgrade finished, he had more, and his control was far better.
My living conditions have not been anything like what people here think.
I have been living with artosis for the past 3 weeks (poor guy has spent maybe 3 days alone in his new appartment he got in august lol), before that I was in the estro house for 2,5 weeks. Before that I was staying at IEF hotels/living with artosis for a month. There were a lot of differences between what estro wanted, what I wanted, and my expectations of living with a team were a lot different than reality. Details are not really important but for one nobody really played with me and the coaches didn't show any interest. It was really hard to stay motivated the past little while, wether it was in estro or sitting in a pc bang, grinding away at iccup for x ammount of hours a day anonomyously and unable to play with friends because of 'lag' has been really difficult. There were a lot of things on the side that really bothered me and them (estro) as well, things I did wrong on my part. Combined with how it all started, me coming over and being 'kicked' out for a month b/c of the false replay thing etc, it was just a far from ideal situation. I couldn't live there anymore, I was miserable there, however I didn't want to give up on the 'progamer dream' either. I'm actually really surprised people didn't catch on when I started streaming again, when you live in a progamer house your schedual is 12 hours 7 days a week so there would never be any time to stream. =P
My plan was to do well at courage and try to find a different team, but since I lost in the 1st round, not once, but twice, I don't know how feasible that is now. Those results look REALLY REALLY bad to just about anyone, not to mention what it does to my self-image and self-confidence when it comes to sc. I am extremely dissapointed with what I have done since I've gone to Korea. I got raped by terror[fou] in IEF, lost twice to people who are not really anything special in courage, and in general am still struggling hard at the A- level on iccup. I don't want to give up, but I also can't just stay for another X ammount of month in Korea troubling artosis with a roommate and spending money playing out of a pc bang and having to pay for daily food etc. Even though my training scheduales have been far from ideal, I have a hard time believing someone like kolll or dimaga would do this bad.
I'm really not sure what to do now. I know people will propably encourage you and tell you not to give up and to keep trying, but please ret, be realistic. This whole Korea thing was not a very good idea. Even if you somehow manage to get the license, no matter if it is by winning courage or just getting it free from the team, the license is the very first and propably the easiest step. The chances for you to succeed in getting a name among korean progamers is ridiculously low, even if you were korean yourself. There is no offense here, i've been a fan of yours since i first heard of you. But come on, do you want to end up like Idra? His position is maybe the best a foreigner can get after going to Korea - being a B-teamer and dominating the foreign scene. I dont want my favorite SC Player to become just another basement kid on any team. Not every dream does come true, even if you give your best. So do yourself a favour and go back home to once again become the best foreigner instead of becoming one of the worst progamers. Go on with your life and enjoy being the best outside korea. This option is much better than giving up your life to propably not make it big in Korea after all. @Everyone who is going to flame me: I don't care. This is what I'm talking about, lol.
Just so long as you don't take it out on all of us, with "kid" and "fucking" judiciously sprinkled in, say what you want.
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On December 28 2009 01:48 vnlegend wrote:
Hmm. This whole thing actually makes Idra look more awesome (although I don't like him). He's quietly endured all the BS of being a foreigner in Korea while still improving his skills and winning vs weaker Koreans.
Personally, at 24 yrs old, I'd keep SC as a hobby and pursue careers with good financial prospects.
Anyone give short cliffs on Idra's korea experience, from arriving at the eSTRO house to moving to CJ and becoming a solid b-teamer?
I don't understand why eSTRO is inviting people and then not allowing them, or encouraging other eSTRO members, to play with them. I used to think eSTRO was cool for taking chances on foreigners, but as more and more is posted it just seems like they don't care and have an extra computer in their house. This doesn't compute with eSTRO's old image as being caring to foreigners.
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EPT
