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People have always been interested in discussing the extremes. List of the top 10 best movies of all times or the worst games ever released circulate the internet and are posted faster than IdrA can GG.
But what about the most average singer ever? Or the apple pie that left the most forgettable impression on your mind? Is it not due to these everyday, regular, normal (contains rude words, so beware you regularly sensitive people out there!) things that make the best and the worst stand out? Without something "normal" to compare things with, how could we define somebody as the best?
That said, I embarked on an epic a not that special journey to find the most average of all progamers in StarCraft!
So how to do this? The first idea that sprung into my mind was to see which race was the most played on the professional level and which team had the most members and then, looking at the players of that race on that team and selecting whomever was most average of them.
Quick quizz for all you out there then! Which team has most members as of now?
+ Show Spoiler +
And which race is played the most?
+ Show Spoiler +Protoss! (Unless I counted wrong, of course.)
So clearly Average Joe the StarCraft professional has to be from Aiur.
So what do we end up with? Well, it comes down to a total of eight players. They are:
+ Show Spoiler +
But this is where the problems start. Who of all these players can be described as most average? The only thing I could think of was looking at their ELO ratings, but seing how only a minority of them even had one it was a futile atempt. Instead I had to look at their win rating.
+ Show Spoiler +Bisu has won 370 out of 417 listed games giving him a 88.73% win rate.
BeSt has won 146 out of 244 listed games. 59.84%
KT.MGW)Protoss has won 5 out of 10. 50,00%
Doctor.K has won 46/101. 45.54%
TosSLove has won 15/35. 42,86%
haitai has won 1/5. 20,00%
Paralyze has won 2/10. 20,00%
GgMaN[Name] has won 1/9. 11,11%
Now clearly we can't draw any serious conclusion from this data seing how so many of the players have played so few listed games. But ignoring that we can see that the median player of the team is either KT.MGW)Protoss or Doctor.K.
However! I was not satisfied with this, oh no! In the name of true science I decided to look at all players, not just the SK Telecom:ers or the Protosses. No, instead I decided to look at the ELO rating of all active progamers and find the median, setting those with no ELO rating at the bottom of the scale.
The result? I ended up with a median ELO rating of 1962, which was shared by three players:
+ Show Spoiler +
Funny how two of them end up with "soo" in their IDs, don't you think? After once again consulting win ratios, selected the one with the median win ratio and thus ended up with just one player. So without further ado, I present to you mister Average Joe, the progamer:
+ Show Spoiler + HakSoo, truly a legend in his own right.
I hereby declare him the master of regular play.
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
This is really irrelevant.
May I ask why you felt compelled to do this?
EDIT: Not... funny...
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this is a pathetic thread. just because SKT has the most players doesn't mean the player has to come from them.
you're variables are illogical.
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How is he average? He has a 16,67% win rate!
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9070 Posts
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I thought it was a cool concept, but your criteria were pretty dumb... a statistic average will always produce something dumb.
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On October 21 2009 02:09 disciple wrote:
Canata
Totally agree with this statement.
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What the hell Bisu has 370 wins out of 416 games?????
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On October 21 2009 02:29 EtherealDeath wrote:
What the hell Bisu has 370 wins out of 416 games?????
ok what? I just read that again and that's definitely unreal. No progamer will ever come close to 88% win.
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i think it would be better if u didnt care about which team the gamer came from, instead just take the most common race and see whos closest to 50% win rate in the mus ^^
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my mind was just blasted by your logic
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Nothing wrong with this thread imo. You guys are taking his analysis way too serious. This obviously is a thread with humorous taste that should be looked at with a wink.. I enjoyed it 
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HakSoo is a good choice, though I personally would have went with  Notice.
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I thought that zergs were the most common currently active race?
Yes, Zergs are the most common race. Just checked TLPD.
edit edit : I say that it's thezerg, hyun, or shark.
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Your logic makes no sense and if you knew anything at all about Haksoo you would not call his play "standard".
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Even considering that this isn't meant to be serious, it's just so poorly executed that it fails to be entertaining. The entire thing is nonsensical.
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Doesn't Protoss have the least amount of players.. not the most? ProScene -wise?
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On October 21 2009 03:48 sixghost wrote:The answer is Rock.
Rock goes back and forth between entertaining and fail...which is pretty entertaining as well.
Definitely not average.
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Players like Canata and Goodfriend seem more apt for this. Standard players who hover around 50% and never end up winning anything big.
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3 Lions
United States3705 Posts
On October 21 2009 04:16 QibingZero wrote:
Players like Canata and Goodfriend seem more apt for this. Standard players who hover around 50% and never end up winning anything big.
OSL finalists are not average -__-
I liked the OP, even though some of the logic was faulty.
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ya there would need to be moar sacrasm or whimsical-ness to be considered funny -_-
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The average joe should be those B-team members we will never see
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Sea
never won a league, his team is always in the middle of the table, always passes the qualifiers and fails in the main tournament.
he plays terran, the average human race.
my life is average also.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
excellent work, I chuckled.
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Upmagic.
1v1 Record: All: 94-100 (48.45%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): L L L W W L L L W W | View Games
vT: 38-36 (51.35%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): L W L L W L W W W W | View Games
vZ: 31-33 (48.44%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): L W L L W W L L L L | View Games
vP: 25-31 (44.64%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): L W W W L W W W L L | View Games
He isn't very standad in his play however. You could argue that his unique style is what makes him a "likable," average joe. At least stat wise he's really close to the middle.
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Are you guys all idiots or something? He's not trying to be serious rofl. It's hilarious how you're all faulting him for his logic.
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Wow, quite a few responses that are critizising my statistical analysis! I was not expecting that, I must say.
First of all, this thread was never ment to be taken -seriously-. After all, it's impossible to state that somebody truly is the most average progamer.
Secondly, some of you seem to have mixed up my conclusions. I might have failed to express my line of thought, and if such is the case well then it's my bad. What I tried to do was to present two ways of looking at the problem of finding mr. average:
One mockery way where I just looked at the most common race and team (which any statistican would tell you really isn't a good way of finding the most average player) and one statistically better way where I -only- look at the ELO and ignore factors like race and team. Look at it again, will you? The person I selected as the most average player at the moment, wasn't even from SK Telecom. 
So relax and don't take this thread too seriously, will you? Then again, I guess it is rather normal to overreact, so I guess it's all in line with the theme of the thread!
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On October 21 2009 02:40 Pokebunny wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2009 02:29 EtherealDeath wrote:
What the hell Bisu has 370 wins out of 416 games????? ok what? I just read that again and that's definitely unreal. No progamer will ever come close to 88% win.
The stat is clearly wrong.
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/players/125_Bisu
229-126 in KeSPA sanctioned games.
Edit: BTW, I know OP's thread was a joke, but I don't know if he was pulling numbers out of his ass or what.
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Yes, I too will admit that the number 88% was very high and made me think "now this can't be real" but I was in a hurry when I posted the thread (not that that's any good excuse though!). How I arrived at the number though might be of intrest.
Seing how the imediate stats displayed on a page is usually slightly off, I decided to manually count every win he has had that is registered in the TLPD and I counted that to 370. I then divided it with 417, which is the amount of games he has played. However, now that I think back on it, I probably lost count when I was counting and accidentally added 100. "267, 268, 269, 370". A huge blunder but an easy mistake to do.
If we calculate with 270 wins instead of 370 we arrive at 64.75%, a much more reasonable result.
I do appologize for my blunder. ^^'
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...you spent time manually counting the wins of all the Protoss players on SKT1... to create this?
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On October 21 2009 07:00 siv00 wrote:
...you spent time manually counting the wins of all the Protoss players on SKT1... to create this?
Wow wtf lol
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On October 21 2009 02:40 Pokebunny wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2009 02:29 EtherealDeath wrote:
What the hell Bisu has 370 wins out of 416 games????? ok what? I just read that again and that's definitely unreal. No progamer will ever come close to 88% win.
unless they win their first game...
then retire..
:D
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Though painful to say, I'd nominate Much for being the average joe. Just about 50% win, sometimes lose to bad players, sometimes win against good players, but never really excels at anything, nor has he really won anything either. But he's awesome anyway, so it's ok. :>
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9070 Posts
On October 21 2009 07:00 Mykill wrote:Rock is NOT average. He's the staple for mediocre. Most average player is definitely Hwasin. great play, bad play, he's still doing decent. still a cool little read. guys calm down edit: for TLPD
Hwasin cant be put under the category of Average Joe, cause
1. He won the korean WCG in 2007
2. Excluding the last MSL he was utterly unlucky to meet everytime the future champion in the KO stage.
3. He is called the red sniper for a reason
Hwasin is a good player, actually a really good one who failed time and time again. Canata is smth completely different, he is always kind of there but cant advance any further, or the one time he was on fire got to meet fantasy and Jaedong in the same week
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Valhalla18444 Posts
hahahahah, this was a good read
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How is Hwasin an average joe in any sense? His recent play hasn't been that good, but he used to have some of the sharpest TvZ senses in the whole scene with really sharp builds and intelligent scv cutting. His style is something unique, and there is a reason why he boasted one of the best TvZs for a long time.
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I always considered  keke to be the epitome of mediocre zerg players.
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Osaka27154 Posts
Funny thread. I found your analysis to be painfully average in it's approach and outcome. I declare you the Average Joe of thread making!
For my two cents I would say Light is the average Joe.
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Osaka27154 Posts
On October 21 2009 01:49 tree.hugger wrote:
This is really irrelevant.
May I ask why you felt compelled to do this?
EDIT: Not... funny...
On October 21 2009 01:58 mOnion wrote:
this is a pathetic thread. just because SKT has the most players doesn't mean the player has to come from them.
you're variables are illogical.
wah.
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I think Hiya is most average player of all average player. He gets my vote over Upmagic because I can actually remember Upmagic's games. I can't remember any of hiya's games to save my life.
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On October 21 2009 07:00 Mykill wrote:Rock is NOT average. He's the staple for mediocre.
...
You do realize that "average" and "mediocre" mean the exact same thing, right? Well, I mean probably you didn't, but they do. (Except mathematically. "Mediocre" isn't a mathematical term. Yet?)
EDIT: This thread is hilarious, both in topic and execution.
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On October 21 2009 12:33 Musoeun wrote:... You do realize that "average" and "mediocre" mean the exact same thing, right? Well, I mean probably you didn't, but they do. (Except mathematically. "Mediocre" isn't a mathematical term. Yet?) EDIT: This thread is hilarious, both in topic and execution.
Not exactly, mediocre implies possibly substandard/inferior yet passable, it's often derogatory while average is strict in its meaning, they are synonyms but not "exact"
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I forget about Mind more than I forget about any other notable player, but he's won an MSL so I don't know if it counts
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On October 21 2009 12:33 Athos wrote:
I think Hiya is most average player of all average player. He gets my vote over Upmagic because I can actually remember Upmagic's games. I can't remember any of hiya's games to save my life.
There's nothing "average joe" about magikarp
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Now, the topic of this thread has been changed to:
Find the progamer with least amount of televised matches.
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my 2 cents is that i would propose that because the pro's win on such a scale (of like >60%) this means that the average person is actually going to have a smaller rating because when you add up all the percents , their distrubution puts the average actually at a little below 50%.
however this proposed on the untested idea that most (litterally >50%) progamers have under 50% winrate. which should be possible for the industry to survive... except maybe ive got this backwards due to retirement and lifespans....
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On October 21 2009 13:41 FallingTeardrops wrote:
Now, the topic of this thread has been changed to:
Find the progamer with least amount of televised matches.
classic has 2.
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Everyone should be looking for someone who hasn't made it past Ro16 in any leagues, has very few fans, plays standard 90% of the time, doesn't excel or suck at any matchup, and has a 40-50% winrate. The average joe is someone that nobody notices or cares about, but wins games every now and then.
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Thezerg? He even makes "average" amount of lineup appearances!
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the logic is flawed... average joe is a player whose name we cant even remember
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On October 21 2009 15:41 LCC wrote:
Everyone should be looking for someone who hasn't made it past Ro16 in any leagues, has very few fans, plays standard 90% of the time, doesn't excel or suck at any matchup, and has a 40-50% winrate. The average joe is someone that nobody notices or cares about, but wins games every now and then.
Lomo?
Except this one time in Gom he seems to fill that pretty nice?
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Lomo is known as the bubblegum terran and is known for his wraiths in tvz. Plus everyone is homo for lomo.
Not average enough. =(
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Awesome idea this thread is. HakSoo seems like a good choice. Utterly unremarkable. The terran Shine comes to mind as another average joe. And Juni, or Chavi, from Samsung KHAN. Not so good, but not that bad either.
I think Rock is a decidedly bad choice. This player is in no way average. He is setting new lows for televised play, after having been reasonable good. He even has a trademark strategy.
UpMaGiC is actually pretty good, arguably the hero of team eSTRO. That his winrate is not that staggering is no surprise, few players are so good and so consistent that a statistic ranging years back can be positive. Only the true monsters have 60+% winrate, the A-class has 50+% winrate. A player between 40 and 50% I think indeed qualifies on first glance as an average joe, but I feel that that's not enough. Many ACE players have below 50% winrate, but none of them are average. History, style, achievements, status within the team...
Also, not every game is the same, as UpMaGiC remarked in his recent winner interview. Some games are more important than others. Ace matches, obviously, but also the 5th game in a best of three, a losers match in the OSL, a snipe chance in the proleague finals. A player who wins, for example, two starleagues in a season with only 3-2s and thenceforth sucking, can he be called average? Surely not, when true average joes like HakSoo and, let's throw another protoss in, Jaehoon are about.
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Canata always seemed to be the most average to me.
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On October 21 2009 06:56 Slugbreath wrote:
Yes, I too will admit that the number 88% was very high and made me think "now this can't be real" but I was in a hurry when I posted the thread (not that that's any good excuse though!). How I arrived at the number though might be of intrest.
Seing how the imediate stats displayed on a page is usually slightly off, I decided to manually count every win he has had that is registered in the TLPD and I counted that to 370. I then divided it with 417, which is the amount of games he has played. However, now that I think back on it, I probably lost count when I was counting and accidentally added 100. "267, 268, 269, 370". A huge blunder but an easy mistake to do.
If we calculate with 270 wins instead of 370 we arrive at 64.75%, a much more reasonable result.
I do appologize for my blunder. ^^'
fix the OP please
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On November 24 2009 15:01 CoOl]1st[ wrote:i think it's Sea.Really
Really
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I'd say really, he wins games here and there but dosent do anything special
Edit: pure could be mr average aswell
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17010 Posts
Pure looks like an absolute badass when he plays though. He kind of reminds me of a fox, fittingly enough.
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On October 21 2009 03:48 sixghost wrote:The answer is Rock.
Rock isnt exactly average. Rock however would win the 'awesomely bad' progamer award faster than you can say 'right-said-fred'.
I think Much and sea are both pretty good responses
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On October 21 2009 02:40 Pokebunny wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2009 02:29 EtherealDeath wrote:
What the hell Bisu has 370 wins out of 416 games????? ok what? I just read that again and that's definitely unreal. No progamer will ever come close to 88% win.
Iloveoov was pretty close I think. Even now he's close to 70% TvZ and 60% in other matchups and in his prime he was a true monster.
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its easier than that : Toss: Violet Terran : Go.Go Zerg: hyuk
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10387 Posts
Darkelf is the average progaming joe.
Or, if we want to get technical, some unknown gamer that has at most 1 televised appearance since thats how it is for most progamers.
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The average Joe has to be Terran. Because to play the best possible terran, you often have to be the most boring player you can be.
And you can't be boring if you cast storms in every PvZ and do reaver attacks as regular openings in TvP.
I agree with LCC, Notice sounds like the perfect guy; most people will recognize the nickname, but even the nickname suggests that this guy has no ambition what-so-ever and is probably boring to be around.
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United States13143 Posts
On November 24 2009 21:38 ArvickHero wrote:
Or, if we want to get technical, some unknown gamer that has at most 1 televised appearance since thats how it is for most progamers.
This is what I was thinking. I would imagine the average pro plays a few proleague matches, doesn't do all that well, never gets out of the offlines, then eventually retires without accomplishing anything in progaming.
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Obviously Okay, he was decent.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images/2/21/Haksoo.jpg)
