EPTThat, or micro-intensive openings. Overuse of static defense strikes me as a cowardly way to avoid zealot + probe vs. ling.
ZvP is imbalanced - Page 13
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Severedevil
United States4839 Posts
That, or micro-intensive openings. Overuse of static defense strikes me as a cowardly way to avoid zealot + probe vs. ling. | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
Bisu raped Jaedong. Close this thread now.  | ||
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Foucault
Sweden2826 Posts
On September 26 2009 21:43 Holgerius wrote: + Show Spoiler + Bisu raped Jaedong. Close this thread now. Why did you have to do that? Seriously, get the fuck out of here. | ||
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.risingdragoon
United States3021 Posts
Then came zerg heroes like July and his muta microing/flanking, savior for his reinforcement cutoff and defensive zerg, Jaedong and his aggressive management style, insane microing of 2 groups of muta (to this date nobody else is any good at it yet), so on. For TvP there was Reach, Kingdom, Nal_rA with zealot bomb and precision dragoon micro, free's ob-less mine defuse, Stork/Jangbi for their incredible knack of creating openings where there were no openings. Fill in any others. For PvZ the heroes were Nal_rA for his corsair reaver combo into air domination composition, Bisu for his FE into corsair dt, kal (I think) for the 4gate +1speedlots 2archon timing attack, etc. Eventually zerg fought back with July's mastery of corsair scourging, Jaedong's use of burrow for shuttle snipe, muta for templar sniping, etc. etc. Point is every time the talk of imbalance sounds off it's really a call for new heroes to arise and innovate. The margin for PvZ is thin, no one is denying that. It's comparable to the salad and appetizer days of ZvT when 1 false move means gg game over. But look where that's at now. All these innovations are just overlooked details in the earlier days. Wait and see. | ||
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monolith94
United States47 Posts
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.risingdragoon
United States3021 Posts
On September 26 2009 22:33 monolith94 wrote: I agree with the poster who mentioned Movie's very cool game vs. Jaedong. A dragoon rush? Dragoons have very solid hp relative to the damage lings and hydralisks can put out in the earlly game, giving them a nice durability. Sure they may not be completely cost effective, but if you can out-micro in the critical early game, sometimes a technically non cost effective unit can be strategically effective. the only reason that worked is cus nobody's used it in ages, the possibility didn't enter jaedong's mind so he never upgraded ling speed as soon as it gets used more it becomes obsolete, cus it's too damn easy to scout and counter | ||
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Boertie
Netherlands98 Posts
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Sharp-eYe
Canada642 Posts
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OneOther
United States10774 Posts
On September 27 2009 00:21 Sharp-eYe wrote: This is an awkward suggestion, but maybe Protoss' should stop FEing everygame. Yes the economic advantage is really good early/mid game but what about Stork vs Jaedong in WCG Korea Finals. He 1 gated and won? I mean its so predictable for protoss to FE. Atleast in PvT you only sometimes see FE, but Protoss is becoming too predictable with the Forge > cannon > nexus opening. Also, Protoss players are sticking to Sair/Dark Templar 90% of the time, and the only players I have ever seen use Sair/Reaver recently is Stork and Bisu. ID love to see more players try going just sair/zealot/templar, or something of a lower level. It will throw some zerg players off. OR maybe even stop using the Corsair. Atleast do something other than forge > cannon > nexus > sair/dt... look, everybody knows one gate can be a nice variation in a series or every once in a while. it can work if you execute correctly. but the point is it can never be a reliable, standard pvz opening. it depends heavily on the map, too. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17800 Posts
On September 27 2009 00:21 Sharp-eYe wrote: This is an awkward suggestion, but maybe Protoss' should stop FEing everygame. Yes the economic advantage is really good early/mid game but what about Stork vs Jaedong in WCG Korea Finals. He 1 gated and won? I mean its so predictable for protoss to FE. Atleast in PvT you only sometimes see FE, but Protoss is becoming too predictable with the Forge > cannon > nexus opening. Also, Protoss players are sticking to Sair/Dark Templar 90% of the time, and the only players I have ever seen use Sair/Reaver recently is Stork and Bisu. ID love to see more players try going just sair/zealot/templar, or something of a lower level. It will throw some zerg players off. OR maybe even stop using the Corsair. Atleast do something other than forge > cannon > nexus > sair/dt... It also depends on early game scouting/guessing. I think that it's pretty ok to assume that P is going to FE (from Z perspective). This is where some solution can be found to break the scheme, but it depends on what Z is going to do about (presumed) P FE. Is he going to try an early run-by with lings? Or is he going to expand twice himself, which is most common? I believe that most Z's play with an attitude set towards P FE'ing. I wonder what would happen if he didn't... I remember that back in the days, when Z started to open every single game with expansion one P (was it Jangbi?) owned top Z player by going 2-3 gate zealot early on and obliterating him, thus reminding all Zerg players that FE is a privilage, not something you have for granted (as one of the wise people here on TL.net said it). | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
On September 26 2009 22:44 .risingdragoon wrote: the only reason that worked is cus nobody's used it in ages, the possibility didn't enter jaedong's mind so he never upgraded ling speed as soon as it gets used more it becomes obsolete, cus it's too damn easy to scout and counter At least it would give zerg players more to think about. They also might have to spend money just to be prepared or to actually scout it. And it also allows you to fake that rush if it was used more often. | ||
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InFdude
Bulgaria619 Posts
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
On September 27 2009 02:09 InFdude wrote: Screw toss...it's just toss is too greedy nowadays.Play 1 base and use your OP templars. You sure are going to get a lot of templars off of 1gas. | ||
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closed
Vatican City State491 Posts
There was one very successful protoss progamer who used to post at this site. He was from Australia. What was the main source of his sucess both PvT and PvZ? HT/reaver drops on workers! | ||
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dhe95
United States1213 Posts
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OneOther
United States10774 Posts
On September 27 2009 01:56 spinesheath wrote: At least it would give zerg players more to think about. They also might have to spend money just to be prepared or to actually scout it. And it also allows you to fake that rush if it was used more often. it's just not viable if it starts to be used more than once every ten games or whatever. too easy to scout, too easy to counter. not effective. | ||
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PH
United States6173 Posts
On September 26 2009 14:28 Ideas wrote: Alright you guys caught us. ZvP is super fucking imba. ZvP is literally the easiest thing in the world. It's so easy that we Zergs will purposefully lose a lot of the games (approximately 50%) so as to not arouse the ignorant protoss. Every progame where a Protoss beat a Zerg was thrown away by the Zerg. We actually had to collectively pay savior 5 million dollars to lose to bisu in the MSL because protoss were starting to catch on. we even paid bisu a million dollars to do some stupid fucking build instead of normal dumb shit so that all the protoss players would think THAT was why and not suspect that savior threw it away. I CANT LIVE THIS LIE ANY MORE NOOO WTF ARE YOU DOING?! Great, now all ez protoss are gonna quit. In all seriousness, this thread has become pure comedy. | ||
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Avidkeystamper
United States8556 Posts
On September 27 2009 02:38 closed wrote: Hey protoss players - let mi remind you of one thing. There was one very successful protoss progamer who used to post at this site. He was from Australia. What was the main source of his sucess both PvT and PvZ? HT/reaver drops on workers! Yeah, I rarely see worker raids by the protoss anymore. No pressure whatsoever on the zerg. Never forces them to multitask. | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
On September 27 2009 02:58 OneOther wrote: it's just not viable if it starts to be used more than once every ten games or whatever. too easy to scout, too easy to counter. not effective. I wouldn't trash the concept that easily. Of course the build might require refinement, army composition / unit control might need adjustments, some tricks might have to be applied. I wouldn't be surprised if a decent all-in could be evolved from that. Protosses need some variations in their play, or else they WILL lose. | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
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