Overall Statistics of Jaedongβs Games vs Progamers (2006.02.13β2009.08.30)
Overall Statistics: vs All β 501 games: 341β160 (68.1%) vs T β 204 games: 130β74 (63.7%) vs Z β 142 games: 109β33 (76.8%) vs P β 155 games: 102β53 (65.8%) Individual Leagues β 316 games: 214β102 (67.7%) Team Leagues β 185 games: 127β58 (68.6%) OSL (excl. prelims) β 73 games: 50β23 (68.5%) [vs T: 27β10 (73.0%); vs Z: 12β3 (80%); vs P: 11β10 (52.4%)] MSL (excl. prelims) β 77 games: 47β30 (61.0%) [vs T: 21β17 (55.2%); vs Z: 6β5 (54.5%); vs P: 20β8 (71.4%)] GOM Cl. β 32 games: 23β9 (71.8%) [vs T: 7β2 (77.8%); vs Z: 2β3 (40%); vs P: 14β4 (77.8%)] PL (incl. Finals) β 174 games: 121β53 (69.5%) [vs T: 40β27 (59.7%); vs Z: 60β12 (83.3%); vs P: 21β14 (60.0%)]
Year by Year Statistics: 2006 β 78 games: 51β27 (65.4%) 2007 β 131 games: 90β41 (68.7%) 2008 β 149 games: 102β47 (68.5%) 2009 β 143 games: 98β45 (68.5%) Total β 501 games: 341β160 (68.1%)
Race Statistics: vs T 2006 β 30 games: 16β14 (53.3%) 2007 β 54 games: 38β16 (70.4%) 2008 β 67 games: 42β25 (62.7%) 2009 β 53 games: 34β19 (64.2%) vs T total β 204 games: 130β74 (63.7%) vs Z 2006 β 28 games: 20β8 (71.4%) 2007 β 32 games: 25β7 (78.1%) 2008 β 28 games: 23β5 (82.1%) 2009 β 54 games: 41β13 (75.9%) vs Z total β 142 games: 109β33 (76.8%) vs P 2006 β 20 games: 15β5 (75%) 2007 β 45 games: 27β18 (60%) 2008 β 54 games: 37β17 (68.5%) 2009 β 36 games: 23β13 (63.9%) vs P total β 155 games: 102β53 (65.8%)
Streaks Statistics: Best Streaks: 13 wins (2Γ: 2007.12.22β2008.01.29; 2009.03.08β28) vs T β 12 wins (2007.07.20β10.26) vs Z β 12 wins (2007.01.22β08.10) vs P β 10 wins (2008.07.05β29) Worst Streaks: 4 losses (4Γ: 2006.04.24β30; 2007.04.06β14; 2007.11.02β13; 2009.08.13β14) vs T β 5 losses (2007.03.31β05.01) vs Z β 3 losses (3Γ: 2006.03.28β04.30; 2009.07.08β12; 09.08.13) vs P β 4 losses (2006.12.07β2007.02.05)
[Addendum] β JD vs Bonjwas: vs Boxer β 2β0 vs Nada β 5β1 vs iloveoov β 2β2 vs July β 2β2 vs sAviOr β 5β3 vs ToSsGirL β 2β0
Note: By now TLPD is incomplete (481 entries in JDβs statistics pages and total statistics isnβt shown). I use database on Ygosu.com with small corrections (Ygosu DB miscounted 3 games vs non-progamers on WCG 2008 Grand Final β 2 wins vs P and 1 win vs Z; also Ygosu DB has errors in maps data in 2007 Seoul IESF). My data coincide with the common Korean statistics, which is used in Korean Wikipedia and which is used on Korean TV.
wow I didn't know he had been such a beast for so long. I don't think I have viewed him as a top player for more then one and a half year. So close stats between Fantasy, Bisu, Flash and Stork.
I never noticed the "April jinx" before.. though to be fair, the 2008 one was just after he won the MSL, and the 2009 one was during his insane Batoo OSL finals with Fantasy, so I guess I can't criticize him too much
On August 30 2009 22:50 Plexa wrote: And the only gamer that has a winning record vs Jaedong is....
Stork?! wtf haha
p4ndemik is doing a beastly job adding every missing game to TLPD so in a few months you won't be able to say its inaccurate!
I think Rock also has a winning a winning record against Jaedong. (if that best of 5 was the only series they played at least). But yeah, that is a pretty impressive list regardless.
On August 31 2009 03:14 Elian wrote: I'm newer to the community, and I was wondering:
For the whole Bonjwa deal, did they name the other bonjwas during the middle of their peak, or after a period of evaluation or something.
How does it work, exactly? It seems like with these numbers over the past 5 years JD has proven enough?
Awesome post btw, really fun read. Time to print some Starcraft baseball cards.
Bonjwa was a term coined around the time Savior activated God Mode and just dominated so thoroughly his reign was undisputed.
The reason Jaedong was never really considered Bonjwa is because Bisu/Flash can and have kept up with him in terms of skill. Bonjwas have no equals. It's not just about the stats.
On August 31 2009 03:14 Elian wrote: I'm newer to the community, and I was wondering:
For the whole Bonjwa deal, did they name the other bonjwas during the middle of their peak, or after a period of evaluation or something.
How does it work, exactly? It seems like with these numbers over the past 5 years JD has proven enough?
Awesome post btw, really fun read. Time to print some Starcraft baseball cards.
After Savior got done wtfpwning everyone at the end of Shinhan 3, they decided to call him bonjwa, and also oov, NaDa, and Boxer too afterwards.
Their defining characteristic is that they dominated really hard, but most of them had sharp declines and usually sucked vs the bonjwa after them. Their dominance and fall were also usually directly linked to changes in the metagame that they brought about and consequently fell to.
Besides, we all know the 5th bonjwa is KeSPA. No pro-gamer stands a chance when they step into the ring with KeSPA - you know they're going to get dominated and abused before it even starts...
On August 31 2009 04:05 HanN00b wrote: I dont why people still say is no bonjwas. How much more dominating can a player be...
The problem is that during this time Bisu and Flash have been right there with him, at times even better. Jaedong's usually been the best, and he's got the Golden Mouse and everything, but there have been plenty of players (Bisu, Flash, fantasy, free, and apparently Stork to name a few) with a good chance of taking games from him.
I mean, even six months ago we were debating whether Luxury (LOL) might have finally polished his ZvZ to be better than Jaedong's. We were wrong, of course, but when a player's signature matchup isn't secure, he just isn't a bonjwa.
On August 31 2009 04:05 HanN00b wrote: I dont why people still say is no bonjwas. How much more dominating can a player be...
Jaedong should win the Avalon MSL. But the Semis was just prior to the Starleagues Semis⦠Platinum Mouse will help to get the official status BOAT (BOAT > bonjwa).
On August 31 2009 04:05 HanN00b wrote: I dont why people still say is no bonjwas. How much more dominating can a player be...
Jaedong should win the Avalon MSL. But the Semis was just prior to the Starleagues Semis⦠Platinum Mouse will help to get the official status BOAT (BOAT > bonjwa).
On August 31 2009 04:05 HanN00b wrote: I dont why people still say is no bonjwas. How much more dominating can a player be...
Jaedong should win the Avalon MSL. But the Semis was just prior to the Starleagues Semis⦠Platinum Mouse will help to get the official status BOAT (BOAT > bonjwa).
On August 31 2009 04:10 Musoeun wrote: The problem is that during this time Bisu and Flash have been right there with him, at times even better. Jaedong's usually been the best, and he's got the Golden Mouse and everything, but there have been plenty of players (Bisu, Flash, fantasy, free, and apparently Stork to name a few) with a good chance of taking games from him.
This gives the impression that players like Savior didn't lose games. They did still lose though, obviously. What was their winning % during their reign? And are we really going to hold it against Jaedong that he can lose to top players (even though he has a 50%+ win% against almost all of them)? Is the distinction that Jaedong loses to good players while Savior (etc) lose to bad no-names? If they had a huge winning % advantage over Jaedong I can see it, but if they're right in the same 68% range then I do not understand.
On August 31 2009 04:10 Musoeun wrote: I mean, even six months ago we were debating whether Luxury (LOL) might have finally polished his ZvZ to be better than Jaedong's. We were wrong, of course, but when a player's signature matchup isn't secure, he just isn't a bonjwa.
I'm not really sure what to make of this. Jaedong has the best vsZ of all time. Oov was bonjwa and was amazing at TvZ, but that doesn't mean he never lost a single vZ match ever.
People seem to act like, since Jaedong has lost a match or two he cannot be bonjwa. Last I checked though, Boxer, Oov, Savior, etc did not have a golden mouse so they weren't exactly infallible either.
Well there is a nice statistics, thank you for listing these.
On August 31 2009 03:32 dmfg wrote: Besides, we all know the 5th bonjwa is KeSPA. No pro-gamer stands a chance when they step into the ring with KeSPA - you know they're going to get dominated and abused before it even starts...
Didn't Blizzard try to fight agains KeSPA? Like they (blizzard) would had any change.
On August 31 2009 04:10 Musoeun wrote: The problem is that during this time Bisu and Flash have been right there with him, at times even better. Jaedong's usually been the best, and he's got the Golden Mouse and everything, but there have been plenty of players (Bisu, Flash, fantasy, free, and apparently Stork to name a few) with a good chance of taking games from him.
This gives the impression that players like Savior didn't lose games. They did still lose though, obviously. What was their winning % during their reign? And are we really going to hold it against Jaedong that he can lose to top players (even though he has a 50%+ win% against almost all of them)? Is the distinction that Jaedong loses to good players while Savior (etc) lose to bad no-names? If they had a huge winning % advantage over Jaedong I can see it, but if they're right in the same 68% range then I do not understand.
On August 31 2009 04:10 Musoeun wrote: I mean, even six months ago we were debating whether Luxury (LOL) might have finally polished his ZvZ to be better than Jaedong's. We were wrong, of course, but when a player's signature matchup isn't secure, he just isn't a bonjwa.
I'm not really sure what to make of this. Jaedong has the best vsZ of all time. Oov was bonjwa and was amazing at TvZ, but that doesn't mean he never lost a single vZ match ever.
People seem to act like, since Jaedong has lost a match or two he cannot be bonjwa. Last I checked though, Boxer, Oov, Savior, etc did not have a golden mouse so they weren't exactly infallible either.
Let me say this as succinctly as possible: it's not just about the stats.
When Savior beat Nada in Shinhan 3, you wouldn't have found a single real SC fan on the planet who wouldn't have admitted that Savior was bonjwa. Bonjwa doesn't mean you're a favorite (or statistically a favorite) against everyone - it means you are considered to be an entire tier above every other player in the world.
That's what Savior was - there was absolutely no dispute. This may come as a shock to people now, but Savior was a widely (not universally though) hated player when he dominated - the love you see for him now did not exist back then. Many people in the Korean community and on TL hated him because he beat their favorite player in every match that mattered. But everyone would admit that he was far and away the best player with no rival. You don't have to "prove" someone is a bonjwa - everyone just knows. It's as simple as that.
On August 31 2009 04:10 Musoeun wrote: The problem is that during this time Bisu and Flash have been right there with him, at times even better. Jaedong's usually been the best, and he's got the Golden Mouse and everything, but there have been plenty of players (Bisu, Flash, fantasy, free, and apparently Stork to name a few) with a good chance of taking games from him.
This gives the impression that players like Savior didn't lose games. They did still lose though, obviously. What was their winning % during their reign? And are we really going to hold it against Jaedong that he can lose to top players (even though he has a 50%+ win% against almost all of them)? Is the distinction that Jaedong loses to good players while Savior (etc) lose to bad no-names? If they had a huge winning % advantage over Jaedong I can see it, but if they're right in the same 68% range then I do not understand.
On August 31 2009 04:10 Musoeun wrote: I mean, even six months ago we were debating whether Luxury (LOL) might have finally polished his ZvZ to be better than Jaedong's. We were wrong, of course, but when a player's signature matchup isn't secure, he just isn't a bonjwa.
I'm not really sure what to make of this. Jaedong has the best vsZ of all time. Oov was bonjwa and was amazing at TvZ, but that doesn't mean he never lost a single vZ match ever.
People seem to act like, since Jaedong has lost a match or two he cannot be bonjwa. Last I checked though, Boxer, Oov, Savior, etc did not have a golden mouse so they weren't exactly infallible either.
Bonjwa means EVERYONE agrees on it. Like, have you met someone that DOESNT believe savior wasnt a bonjwa?
Bonjwa refers to stats + the style of winning. There is a difference between Jaedong's style and savior's style of owning. And Bisu/Stork/Flash/sometimes fantasy can beat the snot out of Jaedong because they are almost equal/slightly more skilled than Jeadong at times.
On August 30 2009 22:40 nonduc wrote: Year by Year Statistics: 2006 β 78 games: 33β65 (65.4%) 2007 β 131 games: 90β41 (68.7%) 2008 β 149 games: 102β47 (68.5%) 2009 β 143 games: 98β45 (68.5%) Total β 501 games: 341β160 (68.1%)
wow, now that's consistency
On August 30 2009 22:40 nonduc wrote: [Addendum] β JD vs Bonjwas: vs Boxer β 2β0 vs Nada β 5β1 vs iloveoov β 2β2 vs sAviOr β 5β3 vs ToSsGirL β 2β0
to those trying to name the 5th bonjwa, here (s)he is!
On August 31 2009 03:14 Elian wrote: I'm newer to the community, and I was wondering:
For the whole Bonjwa deal, did they name the other bonjwas during the middle of their peak, or after a period of evaluation or something.
How does it work, exactly? It seems like with these numbers over the past 5 years JD has proven enough?
Awesome post btw, really fun read. Time to print some Starcraft baseball cards.
After Savior got done wtfpwning everyone at the end of Shinhan 3, they decided to call him bonjwa, and also oov, NaDa, and Boxer too afterwards.
Their defining characteristic is that they dominated really hard, but most of them had sharp declines and usually sucked vs the bonjwa after them. Their dominance and fall were also usually directly linked to changes in the metagame that they brought about and consequently fell to.
Thanks for the history lesson. You too jayme.
It's really crazy how many Matches Jaedong has played in such few years. Pretty amazing, really.
Interesting breakdown. I thought it was interesting that he's actually got a pretty even record against other top level players (Stork, Bisu, Free, Flash). And man, has he played a LOT of games this year... so many leagues...
On August 31 2009 03:14 Elian wrote: I'm newer to the community, and I was wondering:
For the whole Bonjwa deal, did they name the other bonjwas during the middle of their peak, or after a period of evaluation or something.
How does it work, exactly? It seems like with these numbers over the past 5 years JD has proven enough?
Awesome post btw, really fun read. Time to print some Starcraft baseball cards.
4 pages in before someone implies that JD might be bonjwa.... TL training is having an effect on jaedong fans... we know its true, we just hide the truth deep inside ourselves so that we don't get flamed
On August 30 2009 22:50 Plexa wrote: And the only gamer that has a winning record vs Jaedong is....
Stork?! wtf haha
p4ndemik is doing a beastly job adding every missing game to TLPD so in a few months you won't be able to say its inaccurate!
Free has winning record v jd aswell ^^
No, it was missing a 2-0 from Jaedong. Players with a positive H2H against Jaedong that I can list are Backho Casy Sheis ForGG Stork Orion Tester Firebathero
On August 31 2009 11:01 ghostWriter wrote: This is pretty cool, thanks!
How long did it take you to do this?
For your pleasure! How long? I dunnoβ¦ M.b. some days, or a week, orβ¦ some weeks (incl. the comparisons and corrections)β¦ This is for fun β I did not count hours and days.
On August 30 2009 22:50 Plexa wrote: And the only gamer that has a winning record vs Jaedong is....
Stork?! wtf haha
p4ndemik is doing a beastly job adding every missing game to TLPD so in a few months you won't be able to say its inaccurate!
Free has winning record v jd aswell ^^
No, it was missing a 2-0 from Jaedong. Players with a positive H2H against Jaedong that I can list are Backho Casy Sheis ForGG Stork Orion Tester Firebathero
That list looks so weird, just looking at name-value.
I mean, there's "destroys every Zerg no matter what" Casy, "8-0 TvZ all-time" Sheis...
On August 30 2009 22:50 Plexa wrote: And the only gamer that has a winning record vs Jaedong is....
Stork?! wtf haha
p4ndemik is doing a beastly job adding every missing game to TLPD so in a few months you won't be able to say its inaccurate!
Free has winning record v jd aswell ^^
No, it was missing a 2-0 from Jaedong. Players with a positive H2H against Jaedong that I can list are Backho Casy Sheis ForGG Stork Orion Tester Firebathero
ForGG also has a hilarious positive h2h record against Bisu.
He's also ahead of Flash but is Stork's bitch. >_>
EPT![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images/thumb/b/b1/Jaedongnew.jpg/200px-Jaedongnew.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss296/super_katusa/JaedongStarcraftBaseballCard2.jpg)
