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A view on neo-gen PvZ

Blogs > BluzMan
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BluzMan
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
Russian Federation4235 Posts
October 16 2007 19:30 GMT
#1
Now, this is all arbitrary data and my own thoughts, that's why it didn't make it to the strategy forum. First of all, let me introduce myself.

My B.net nickname is NyRe, some of you have played with me, some of you have read my PvT guide. Now, I can't claim I'm a good player (however, everyone's standards of a good player can be vastly different), but you have never seen me and will never see me asking for advice on the strat forum. I tend to lose a lot of games, but I always know why I lost. It's not even my mechanics that hinder my play (although they surely do), I just don't have the champion spark inside me. Even if I know what to do in any given situation, in-game, I'm likely to forget it or misjudge the situation for another one. But I still have good theory that comes from 5 years of playing multiplayer SC and the sole fact that I've watched like 20 times more games that I've played. So, this blog is a view on the modern PvZ trends and why exactly the MU was reversed in an instant.

It was only a year before this moment when the strat forum of TL.net was flooded with PvZ imba threads. Everyone on these boards was crying that zerg is very hard to kill. Every large tournament PvZ victory was a celebration, in fact, every toss advancement in any league was an event. Remember the Legend of the Fall? We don't need this any more, protoss is the dominating race at the moment, but back then it was like toss could only triumph with the greater powers' help. Now, at the second last MSL it boiled down to a PvZ final. I can't bring the exact stats, but more than a half people predicted a 3-0 series. Indeed, they were right, however, not completely right. Now who expected a rookie protoss to take down the best zerg on earth 3-0? Clearly, noone. Some people rooted for Bisu, but noone expected THAT kind of domination.

Now StarCraft has entered a strange era. PvT was considered protoss favoured, PvZ was considered zerg favuored, ZvT was considered terran favoured. All that was before the era of reversal started. We now witness zerg players who have better ZvT than ZvP (zerg twins, Yellow and Luxury, Jaedong), tosses with brilliant PvZ and mediocre PvT (Bisu was one of those, but he made tweaks to his PvT later, Free to some extent), even terrans who do better TvP than TvZ although the latter are quite rare. A mere two years ago that would've been absurd.

Maps.

First of all, of course, maps. New maps favor fast expand builds from protoss, in fact, neo-gen standards label any kind of 1 gate or not-proxied-at-nat 2 gate builds cheese. I remember a time when FE was considered a desperation build for toss that traded any kind of early-game aggression for a questionable feeling of safety. But FE is not the main thing that changed in maps, you could actually go FE on temple and have success. There was a paradigm shift. Everyone knows that zerg units require gas. Everyone knows that protoss core units require minerals, as well as cannons. In 2005, it seemed quite logical to assume that stripping zerg of gas would be the way to solve the PvZ imbalance. Gas-rich maps were considered zerg imba and there are still people on some mapmaking sites that make those min-only easily reachable expansions believing they help out toss. That couldnt've been more wrong! When the concept of timing finally established itself in the foreign community, it became clear that no matter how much gas we give to the zerg at early stages, build timings won't allow him to abuse it. Toss can easily throw away 3 probes and 100 minerals to mine an extra geyser. Getting even a second fast extractor for zerg is not favored at the moment, eco seems to be much more important than early teching. A gas mining operation is -4 drones for zerg, and that is a lot. The other point is that the same gas allows protoss a much more coherent midgame with increased overall use of dragoons and other gas-demanding units (more on that later). Late-game, a toss with lots of gas is a nightmare to behold. Ultraling, dubbed "instawin" in 2005-2006 simply dies in cosmic numbers to protoss gas tech. In 2007, we have even witnessed successful arbiter usage on the pro-scene (thx Pusan, I love you) in PvZ. Thus, one of the reasons for a new PvZ balance situation was the gas abundance on new maps.

A brief historical overview.

1) I believe neo-gen PvZ eventually formed itself out of sair/reaver and sair/DT debuts. So, the history of it comes right from the Neo Hall Of Valhalla and Dire Straits days, where sair/reaver was eventually discovered to be an extremely effective protoss island map combo. To be honest, on pure islands like Dire Straits it's so strong that it is imbalanced. The concept behind the strategy is very simple - you use corsairs to handle any kind of zerg air, be it muta or mass drops, you use reavers to kill his economy and, eventually, himself. If he builds mass hydra to counter you, you take the whole map and humiliate him with mass scouts. GG.

2) Sair/DT combo. Hard to say who invented it, I can assume every toss alive has someday thought "hey, sairs kill ovies, and without ovies, zerg dies to DT", so it's probably folklore, but of all sair/DT variations only two survived to be major strategies - early game 1 gate tech sair/DT opening to gain an early expo and early archives at the same time, at the same time forcing zerg to build an early hydra den, therefore being protected from muta when it comes and the late-game sair/DT "surprise" build that involves massacring zerg with about 20 of each sairs and DTs. There was much discussion on the sair/DT opening, but most people concluded that it was not very effective vs a high-class zerg as it provided a very low level of aggression. On the middle skill level, however, it was easier to sneak that DT somewhere in the zerg's base and wreak havoc, but not vs a premium one. When FE came, 1 gate sair/DT has lost it's point - FE gave a much faster expansion anyway.

3) Disembarking. That's it, I don't remember who did it first, Reach or Nal_Ra, but eventually, Sair/Reaver was executed in a televized game on a ground map. Executed successfully. At first, it looked noobish and cheesy as it involved a lot of "sneaky" drops and 12312 cannons to protect bases. But then, on Arcadia II and Azalea, it time after time proved to be a favoured strategy. However, I think it's strength was not fully understood at that time - Arcadia and Azalea were both too hard to play the other way. However, it was somewhat shoking because it has shown the world that PvZ can be played in an entirely different way. Remember 2003 Reach replays? Hard, desperate fights, constant defense against all the numerous tricks zerg did, usually, even a second base was so hard to take an hold. Sair/reaver was nowhere like it. A protoss fleet flying all over the map freely, striking where and when it wanted to, ultimately finishing the zerg with carriers, a unit that is so obviously handicapped vs plague/scourge. Arcadia and Azalea were eventually removed from the leagues, but that impression carried on.

4) Sair/reaver on new maps and FE -> Sair/DT aka the Bisu build. With a slew of new and not-so-good maps like Desert Fox and Arkanoid, sair/reaver returned into play. However, both desert fox and arkanoid are not island maps lategame, they are not even like Arcadia. Sair/reaver game paradigm (i.e. sair/reaver into beacon/archives into carrier/sair/reaver/HT air-based play) slowly shifted into the concept of a sair/reaver opening. You just use that force as an opening, then you play your normal ground-based PvZ. Those maps are wide-open late game, so that development was quite natural. I think that was an essential moment in the development of the FE -> sair general concept. Then, IT happened. Bisu took down the best ZvP on earth (also known for his impenetrable psyche) in the final of a major league, 3-0, using the same build every game. Fast expand into sair/DT. He not only defeated Savior, he made him look helpless as if Bisu was playing the calm and confident zerg, and Savior played the desperate protoss. The match-up was reversed, and someone on these board even wrote a short article about how he now was (for the first time in his like) thinking something like "why should I be worried, it's just another zerg" (ManaBlue, was that you? ^^).

What is neo-gen PvZ?

Well, I've made a long historical overview (calling it brief haha) only to come to this: sair/reaver and sair/DT were both instrumental in the forming of the neo-gen. However, it has only recently become clear that the core unit for both combination is not the DT and not the reaver, but the corsair itself. It was considered that both reaver and DT are strong units and corsairs... just complement them well. However, in reality, it's the sair that is the main damage dealer, and reavers and DT's just gain extra efficiency from being used in tandem with corsairs. Thus, neo-gen PvZ relies on corsair usage. I've become completely confident in that after I've seen a rep of Dreiven vs someone where he went just mass sairs, without either DT or reavers. He won in such a decisive way that I've even felt pity for the poor zerg. The rep is in the WGT pack released recently.

Non-mineral-equivalent effects and threat.

When we compare units, we use the concept of cost-efficiency. How something is efficient for it's cost. But sometimes, we can't measure the effectiveness of something in minerals or gas. The prime example would be drops. Going fact/port for terran in terms of money and unit count is disadvantageous - he spends money on the tech and dropships and has, therefore, reduced unit count. Moreover, when his drop arrives at the protoss base, it is hopelessly outnumbered and is killed, reducing the unit count even more. What's the catch? Position and dominance. By dropping units you place them in good position, you can hurt your enemy's economy, and, most importantly, you gain dominance over the flow of the game. Dropping a couple of units into your enemy's base may halt his much larger force from attacking, giving you the time to expand and gain superior position with your main force. Boxer was the first player to fully realize the importance of such an advantage. Zerg gameplay was based on muta harass for a long time - terran has to stay in his base even though he has a superior army, allowing the zerg to get his expansions freely. It can be called threat and it essentially the third variable in the mass/power equation. Having a high threat can allow you to stay in the game even when you're behind on both mass and power. It was somewhat reflected in 2006's PvT trends where tosses went reaver harass to gain threat and expand like mad. The importance of threat can be seen in {YO SPOILER!!!} the recent game of Flash vs Pusan on Katrina - Pusan went fast arbiters and mass recalls. His recalls were ehh... not the best display of recall efficiency, he definetely lost more in minerals/gas than he killed, one time even losing two full control groups of units and his arbiter instantly to mines Flash planted at his base. Watching that game, you have the feeling that Pusan should be losing, but he wins in the end. Better micro/macro? Maybe. Threat management? Definetely. Well, all that was a little off-topic, so let's just say sairs' effectiveness can't be measured in "what units I could've built for that money", they generate threat and a lot of it.

What do sairs do?

As mentioned in the previos paragraph, sairs generate threat and eliminate threat generated by zerg. Their primary roles are:

1) Scouting. The problem of "what build order does zerg go" is being solved instantly - you just fly in and see for yourself. Moreover, zerg needs hydra to counter sairs, so you not only scout his BO, you actually influence it. Making it much easier to counter.

2) Harassment. Hydras and spore colonies matter a lot when you go 1 gate sair/DT, but not nearly as much when you mass sairs after FE. Sairs build just as fast as zealots, so you can have a large fleet pretty soon after you set up your FE teching. It's easy - if he doesn't have enough at his base, you just fly in and kill all of his overlords. If he keeps being reckless about his defense, you do it again. And again. And again until he gg's. What is fun is that when you have dweb, "enough defense" may grow to a gargantuan amount. What is the most important here is not that you can kill zerg's overlords. What is important is that you can manipulate him into rallying his force to wherever you want him to rally it to, allowing you to get away with otherwise hardly defendable expansion attempts and many other neat stuff. Lategame you can stage attacks on mutliple directions.

3) Sair/reaver and sair/DT. Those can be qute strong because you not only manipulate his forces, you can do actual economic damage in whatever holes you create with your sair fleet. What is also nice is that those are interchangeable. You can start out with Sair/Reaver and then go Sair/DT and vice versa.

4) You force hydras. Actually, a great great boon if you can access an easy 3-rd gas, because HT/zealot rape stuff.

5) Mutas don't seem imba anymore. With the growth of players like July, muta harass seemed harder an harder to defend from - archons just don't cut it with their speed and size, HT's are easily sniped and can storm your own probes. Corsairs, while they might not be able to go on offense for some time vs a heavy muta/scourge force, make your cannoned bases safe. Safe. SAFE. And the more money zerg spends on muta/scourge, the worse he is going to be raped when sairs reach critical mass. He can surely go devourers and stuff, but it's ground map so storm/HT owns once again.

6) Sair prepare ground for drops. Both HT and DT drops can be devastating vs zerg. Normally, zerg has scourge patrolling the map with ovies hanging on every strategic location. With sairs, all those drop prevention methods don't work. With sair fleets around, you can integrate drops into your PvZ as standard play, not a desperation attempt made in hope he doesn't see the red dot on the minimap. Actually, a game-breaking advantage if used right.

7) Put on the blindfold. Now, the most characteristic thing about old-school PvZ is the absolute control zerg has over the map in late game. He knows where your forces are, he can sneak his ling forces into every undefended base of yours and he knows it will be effective because your main force is far from that spot. He knows when you expand and can send like 8 cracklings (neglible for him) to lay waste to your expo just before the cannons finish. He knows when you change your army composition, he knows when you drop, he knows you have observers and he knows when they stray away so that he can scourge them. In essence, zerg has maphack. Guess what? 8-12 corsairs patrolling the map and that unbelievable huge advantage zerg has is gone. Yes, 8-12 sairs cost a lot of money. The question is, how much minerals/gas does maphack cost? Every serious player realizes that the advantage a maphack gives is tremendous because maphack completely changes threat management.

8) Overall, when you go corsairs, you sacrifice either mass or power to gain an advantage in threat. With the modern build-orders being very risky (i.e. reliant on careful timing and unit control) you can't play perfectly safe anyway and threat is very important. If you build 10 spore colonies, you die. That's why I believe that neo-gen PvZ is in its essence corsair usage.

Conclusion.

I do think that the key to PvZ today is air superiority. Even though neo-gen PvZ requires much better mechanics that old-school style (for example, my 200+ APM is not enough to do it better than just "okay"), I still recommend every toss to at least try it. It essentially reverses the MU not in terms of balance, but in terms of thinking. You stop thinking "I must hold, I must hold..." and you start thinking "Zerg... prey!". With sair/reaver into ground strategies I was able to win games vs zergs I couldnt've beaten before. Moreover, some of those games involved me playing with 5000 minerals suprlus. I almost felt like cheating because I was winning games I shouldn't have won. So grab your asses into the air and start treating zergs like a hunter, not a defending prey.

Whew, it's large. ^^

*****
You want 20 good men, but you need a bad pussy.
chobopeon
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States7342 Posts
October 16 2007 20:05 GMT
#2
That was glooooorious. Thanks. This is great.
:O
Polemarch
Profile Joined August 2005
Canada1564 Posts
October 16 2007 20:13 GMT
#3
That was great, very well thought out and written.
I BELIEVE IN CAPITAL LETTER PUNISHMENT!!!!!
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36379 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-10-16 20:32:15
October 16 2007 20:23 GMT
#4
Please PM me about FE yes?

I'm commandeering this for an FE until you tell me otherwise, this deserves more attention than blog.
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
HonkHonkBeep
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
China353 Posts
October 16 2007 20:27 GMT
#5
very well written


whats this about grabbing asses into the air
God is cruel; sometimes he makes us live.
blagoonga123
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States2068 Posts
October 16 2007 20:29 GMT
#6
I can't believe I read the entire thing!
FOOL! Pain is my friend! Now let me introduce you to it!
fight_or_flight
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States3988 Posts
October 16 2007 20:34 GMT
#7
On October 17 2007 05:29 blagoonga123 wrote:
I can't believe I read the entire thing!

ha me too.

Blizzard should see this.
Do you really want chat rooms?
Xeofreestyler
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
Belgium6773 Posts
October 16 2007 20:44 GMT
#8
awesome
Graphics
minus_human
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
4784 Posts
October 16 2007 20:46 GMT
#9
I'll buy u beer for this! thanks
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36379 Posts
October 16 2007 20:47 GMT
#10
OK I created an FE and corresponding thread in featured section.

BluzMan please write more, and if you have an article coming up let me know and I can help you get a cover image.
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
October 16 2007 20:58 GMT
#11
NICE writeup sir
TheFoReveRwaR
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
United States10657 Posts
October 16 2007 21:01 GMT
#12
Awesome write up. Ya I pretty much agree with almost every aspect of this post. I dispise mass corsairs as Z. Especially when they play passive defense with lots of drops while taking more bases into late game sair/carrier. Sooo hard to beat. It shows exactly why maps with a lot of gas are actually really good for P. It allows them to mass early corsairs as while as temps. This allows them to take expansions with sair/dt. And defend them well against the envitable mass hydra with templar as well as constantly patrol overlords with sair. With this kind of play its very easy to gain a dominate position for late game as P.
Being healthy, it has been said, really consists of having the same disease as everybody else.
mikeymoo
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Canada7170 Posts
October 16 2007 21:08 GMT
#13
Way to go! One thread, 3 categories!
o_x | Ow. | 1003 ESPORTS dollars | If you have any questions about bans please PM Kennigit
fanatacist
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
10319 Posts
October 16 2007 22:35 GMT
#14
I read the whole thing EZ, I don't know where the complaints are coming from. It was a great read. Awesome job!
Peace~
ilovejonn
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Canada2548 Posts
October 16 2007 22:49 GMT
#15
Best blog EVARRRRrrrrrr!
Snowflakes in January, Heart warm like February, I wouldn't ordinarily..
aRod
Profile Joined July 2007
United States758 Posts
October 16 2007 23:19 GMT
#16
Hey Bluzman wanted to say great analysis, I couldn't agree more with your points. I'm strongly interested in how will zerg adapt to neo-pvz builds. Additionally, I think we may be seeing the begging of adaptation.

I was wondering what you thought about a recent game where Stork lost to Savior doing corsair/reaver. Savior took a rather quick 3rd expansion, avoided getting gas for tech, and simply focused on massing Hydra. Stork was simply raping overlords towards the end of the game while savior was attacking, but Savior had so much mineral coming in he could afford the ol losses and simply kept attacking and reproducing them. It was a great strategy by Savior.

Frankly I think corsair/dt may have done better for Stork, especially against the 3rd expo, but do you think we may be witnessing the beginning of the end of the Bisu strat's viability?
Live to win.
Aurious
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
Canada1772 Posts
October 16 2007 23:33 GMT
#17
I like it but I lose a majority of my games when I go Corsairs i'll stick to old style PvZ. For some reason it's my best MU
XCetron
Profile Joined November 2006
5226 Posts
October 17 2007 00:10 GMT
#18
Great write, looking for more to help understand our race more and expand our power!!
Superiorwolf
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
United States5509 Posts
October 17 2007 00:25 GMT
#19
Nice write!
Check out my stream at www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=315053 and follow me on Twitter @EGSuppy! :)
TaDa1.
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
655 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-10-17 01:03:39
October 17 2007 00:46 GMT
#20
nice write, i kinda notice when i beat up decent standard toss while getting raped by noob toss who do crazy stuff. Sair threat mess up zerg timing, zerg cant just drone and roll vs sair and harass drop
Ur arguments and facts are amazing
Corsair pix for ownage
[image loading]
sos bomber stork savior fan ^ http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/5160596/1/WXZ/achievements/category/4377898
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