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*** Vote at the bottom of this post ***Introduction+ Show Spoiler +
Hi guys!
To my and hopefully your excitement, i created a list of the best 30 foreign players. As you may know, those lists are rly subjective. I try to look at achievements and latest results, but its unavoidable to get personal opinions into this.
There is no such thing as the perfect „ranking“, but i enjoy doing those, most ppl enjoy reading them, but not many ppl put rankings out there.
My ranking is purely about foreign players and i exclude asian, non korean players as well – that means you wont find chinese or taiwanese players in my ranking. The simple reason being: i dont have much information about these scenes. I obviously know that Sen, Xigua and others are great players, but its impossible to compare them to the players in EU and NA. So you could consider it a „Western Foreigner Top 30“.
I put quite some work into it and i hope i get at least some reads, since i think a ranking made by a random person should be posted as a blog and not as a thread in the general section, even though it might end up with no responses at all.
So here is the list for this month!
The following 20:+ Show Spoiler +
IdrA
TargA
JRecco
ViBe
KiLLeR
Suppy
DarKFoRcE
Tefel
BeastyQt
BratOK
Strelok
ClouD
GoOdy
Naama
HuK
White-Ra
elfi
Feast
monchi
ToD
VOTE - Your opinion on the individual ranks:+ Show Spoiler +Poll: Rank 1: Stephanoabout right (26) 93% lower! (2) 7% 28 total votes Your vote: Rank 1: Stephano (Vote): about right
(Vote): lower!
Poll: Rank 2: Nerchioabout right (20) 91% higher! (1) 5% lower! (1) 5% 22 total votes Your vote: Rank 2: Nerchio (Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!
Poll: Rank 3: Vortixabout right (13) 52% lower! (11) 44% higher! (1) 4% 25 total votes Your vote: Rank 3: Vortix (Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!
Poll: Rank 4: MaNalower! (16) 62% about right (8) 31% higher! (2) 8% 26 total votes Your vote: Rank 4: MaNa (Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!
Poll: Rank 5: Kaslower! (15) 60% about right (10) 40% higher! (0) 0% 25 total votes Your vote: Rank 5: Kas (Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!
Poll: Rank 6: Lucifronabout right (16) 70% lower! (7) 30% higher! (0) 0% 23 total votes Your vote: Rank 6: Lucifron (Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!
Poll: Rank 7: ThorZaiNabout right (11) 48% lower! (7) 30% higher! (5) 22% 23 total votes Your vote: Rank 7: ThorZaiN (Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!
Poll: Rank 8: TitaNlower! (12) 48% higher! (7) 28% about right (6) 24% 25 total votes Your vote: Rank 8: TitaN (Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!
Poll: Rank 9: NaNiWahigher! (21) 55% lower! (13) 34% about right (4) 11% 38 total votes Your vote: Rank 9: NaNiWa (Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!
Poll: Rank 10: SaSeabout right (9) 41% higher! (7) 32% lower! (6) 27% 22 total votes Your vote: Rank 10: SaSe (Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!
Poll: Rank 11: Grubbyabout right (10) 38% higher! (10) 38% lower! (6) 23% 26 total votes Your vote: Rank 11: Grubby (Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!
Poll: Rank 12: Scarletthigher! (13) 45% about right (8) 28% lower! (8) 28% 29 total votes Your vote: Rank 12: Scarlett (Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!
Poll: Rank 13: sLivkolower! (18) 75% about right (5) 21% higher! (1) 4% 24 total votes Your vote: Rank 13: sLivko (Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!
Poll: Rank 14: Happylower! (13) 57% about right (5) 22% higher! (5) 22% 23 total votes Your vote: Rank 14: Happy (Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!
Poll: Rank 15: Blyabout right (11) 52% lower! (6) 29% higher! (4) 19% 21 total votes Your vote: Rank 15: Bly (Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!
Poll: Rank 16: Snuteabout right (11) 55% lower! (5) 25% higher! (4) 20% 20 total votes Your vote: Rank 16: Snute (Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!
Poll: Rank 17: Retlower! (14) 64% about right (4) 18% higher! (4) 18% 22 total votes Your vote: Rank 17: Ret (Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!
Poll: Rank 18: SortOflower! (13) 62% about right (4) 19% higher! (4) 19% 21 total votes Your vote: Rank 18: SortOf (Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!
Poll: Rank 19: NightEnDlower! (11) 42% higher! (9) 35% about right (6) 23% 26 total votes Your vote: Rank 19: NightEnD (Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!
Poll: Rank 20: Dimagalower! (15) 75% higher! (4) 20% about right (1) 5% 20 total votes Your vote: Rank 20: Dimaga (Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!
Poll: Rank 21: HasuObshigher! (13) 52% lower! (7) 28% about right (5) 20% 25 total votes Your vote: Rank 21: HasuObs (Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!
Poll: Rank 22: BabyKnighthigher! (16) 64% about right (5) 20% lower! (4) 16% 25 total votes Your vote: Rank 22: BabyKnight (Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!
Poll: Rank 23: MajOrhigher! (14) 64% about right (5) 23% lower! (3) 14% 22 total votes Your vote: Rank 23: MajOr (Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!
Poll: Rank 24: DeMusliMhigher! (12) 50% lower! (7) 29% about right (5) 21% 24 total votes Your vote: Rank 24: DeMusliM (Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!
Poll: Rank 25: Shethlower! (15) 65% about right (4) 17% higher! (4) 17% 23 total votes Your vote: Rank 25: Sheth (Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!
Poll: Rank 26: TLOhigher! (10) 43% lower! (8) 35% about right (5) 22% 23 total votes Your vote: Rank 26: TLO (Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!
Poll: Rank 27: LoWeLylower! (12) 63% about right (5) 26% higher! (2) 11% 19 total votes Your vote: Rank 27: LoWeLy (Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!
Poll: Rank 28: Sockeabout right (11) 61% higher! (5) 28% lower! (2) 11% 18 total votes Your vote: Rank 28: Socke (Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!
Poll: Rank 29: LiveZergabout right (11) 61% lower! (6) 33% higher! (1) 6% 18 total votes Your vote: Rank 29: LiveZerg (Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!
Poll: Rank 30: Fraerhigher! (16) 80% about right (3) 15% lower! (1) 5% 20 total votes Your vote: Rank 30: Fraer (Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!
_______________ + Show Spoiler +Poll: Which Zerg belongs to the Top 30?IdrA (10) 37% TargA (6) 22% JonnyRecco (5) 19% ViBe (3) 11% DarKFoRcE (2) 7% KiLLeR (1) 4% Suppy (0) 0% Tefel (0) 0% 27 total votes Your vote: Which Zerg belongs to the Top 30? (Vote): IdrA
(Vote): TargA
(Vote): JonnyRecco
(Vote): ViBe
(Vote): KiLLeR
(Vote): Suppy
(Vote): DarKFoRcE
(Vote): Tefel
Poll: Which Protoss belongs to the Top 30?HuK (8) 29% elfi (7) 25% monchi (6) 21% White-Ra (3) 11% Feast (3) 11% ToD (1) 4% 28 total votes Your vote: Which Protoss belongs to the Top 30? (Vote): HuK
(Vote): White-Ra
(Vote): elfi
(Vote): Feast
(Vote): monchi
(Vote): ToD
Poll: Which Terran belongs to the Top 30?BeastyQt (7) 39% Naama (6) 33% GoOdy (3) 17% ClouD (1) 6% Strelok (1) 6% BratOK (0) 0% 18 total votes Your vote: Which Terran belongs to the Top 30? (Vote): BeastyQt
(Vote): BratOK
(Vote): ClouD
(Vote): Strelok
(Vote): GoOdy
(Vote): Naama
And if you cant get enough of rankings: 00Visor's Korean SC2 Ranking!
 
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fraer should be higher than Hasu, Socke, Sheth, Ret, TLO, Lowely, LiveZerg, etc.
He's in sick shape atm, whether it's online in Playhems, ZOTAC Cups ( he won the Monthly Final again over TSLRevival), he's 5-1 in EG Master's Cup with wins over Thorzain, HasuObs, JonnyREcco, Nerchio and Nightend, he did well offline at DreamHack, beating Nerchio again and TheSTC, I could go on for a long time.
If you're able to perform well offline and online, I see no reason not to rank him quite a bit higher.
Just saying. I'll edit with more thoughts later, probably.
I'd switch Bly and sLivko.
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Glad to see Socke on there. Sase and Demuslim and Thorzain I think should definitely be higher though. But why is White-Ra not on the list? o-o
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Germany1040 Posts
In my humble opinion: Fraer should be higher, he (was) pretty inconsistant but did well in the last months.
Scarlett should be lower, winning WCS NA is fine and dandy, but the level of competition lacks. Apart from that we basically saw nothing, no entries in other tourneys so far.
These are the mainpoints that bother me, you could argue about other players, one position higher or lower, but generally the list seems pretty spot on for me.
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though i am biased, as my name suggests, I think HuK should be higher on this.
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The western scene is too fragmented to really compare many of the people against each other. Also, making a list every other month is ridiculous, it really helps people who grind smaller tourneys against people with great achivements. Just look at Naniwa: his GSL ro8 is the biggest westerner achievment of the year and he is rank 9. Yes, he fell out, but that just shows how volatile the ranking is.
It really made sense in BW with Proleague, where there was a sheer amount of game and a relatively closed pool of players being constantly piched against each other, but in western SC2, I would not go below a half of year of granularity.
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Good list overall. I feel JonnyREcco should be cracking the top 30 soon, though. Also, is it possible to spoiler all those polls?
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It would be nicer if you spoiled your polls, but not too bad of a ranking at all! Pretty difficult to rank people for sure, and all things considered you did a good job :D
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polls in spoilers now, thanks for the tip and ur feedback!^^
Fraer seems pretty undervalued by me as it seems - also i think IdrA shouldve probably stayed in the ranking. Ofc he doesnt win lots of official matches, but hes consistantly top 3 na GM with a sick record and play.
I think he will show great stuff in the near future.
I dont know why u ppl think sLivko doesnt deserve to be that high. He had some weaker results in the last month, but hes still pretty sick of a player imo ;/
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On October 29 2012 05:42 KalWarkov wrote:
polls in spoilers now, thanks for the tip and ur feedback!^^
Fraer seems pretty undervalued by me as it seems - also i think IdrA shouldve probably stayed in the ranking. Ofc he doesnt win lots of official matches, but hes consistantly top 3 na GM with a sick record and play.
I think he will show great stuff in the near future.
I dont know why u ppl think sLivko doesnt deserve to be that high. He had some weaker results in the last month, but hes still pretty sick of a player imo ;/
I do think he's a talented and good player, he just didn't have anything outstanding this month and since the team switch he hasn't had many opportunities in team leagues either. That's why I'd suggest switching him and Bly, or just putting Bly ahead of sLivko and Happy since Bly has been consistent, too, but also performed pretty well offline and online this month.
It wouldn't change much, one rank up or down is pretty negligible imho, but reflect the current performances a bit which is part of what the ranking is about, isn't it? It's not that I don't think sLivko doesn't deserve to be that high, I'd just give a little nod to Bly for getting second at DreamHack and all that stuff.
I'm quite excited to see how TitaN will do at WCS and IEM Singapore next month, if he plays well enough this could warrant ranking him a bit higher still, I don't think he's far away from ThorZaIN/Kas. I'm still waiting for his big breakout, he's done decent at quite a few events, but nothing that catapulted him into the spotlight. TitaN is such a good and smart player, I'd really like him to be appreciated a bit more by the general audience.
It's a bit like with Lucifron who was always known to be really, really talented but he only really got acknowledged after his run at WCS Europe.
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I must have missed something, why did titan jump, I though he would be off of this by now.
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does huk not play anymore I havent seen him do anything
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Sen wouldnt even deserve to be Top 30 btw. He didnt do anything since like .. NASL Season 1?
Other than that:
Kas & Thorzain too high - their reputation si more base on their wins moth ago.
Titan - dont knnow why he would be above scarlett, grubby, naniwa, sase, etc - did i miss something?
Grubby & Scarlett way too low.
DIMAGA is a very nice guy. But he doesnt deserve such a high placement considering his skills right now.
Major just now entering the lsit also seems very weird to me. He is one of the 3 best Terrans right now outside Korea.
Other stuff:
sure elfi is the worst player ever in esports mechanically but he wins. and he wins lot. and has a lot more success than .. well nearly everyone one that list. Why is he not in the top 30?
Also ViBe, TargA and BeastyQT should be on the top 30. IdrA shouldnt be even named in the top 50 list ;D
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Titan won 2-1 vs scarlett and just barely lost 2-3 to Hyun within the last month - but he also lost 8-2 (!) to Kas.
Its not about Titan doing well to jump up - its just that NO player from rank 4 on showed good performances - the most solid of them was Kas followed by Titan.
NaNiWa showed about nothing besides his 0-5 vs Nerchio, we didnt see anything of SaSe.
MaNa was in Korea but didnt show good results after his Code S qualification. Lucifron and thorzain can look rly strong, but they also have bad results mixed in. Still, they moved up one, simply because of NaNiWa / SaSe dropping off.
As you can see in the poll - everyone from rank 4 to 10 should be "lower" - the problem is that no1 is there to fill the gap. thats why there is little to no movement there and even decent results are enough to jump up. I dont think Scarlett/Bly/Grubby/Snute have shown enough to take those top 10 spots, although they might do so in the future.
Oh and MajOr - he still didnt have any big results, didnt he? he lost 2-3 in TSL vs JRecco (which gave him a top 30 spot in that month) and ye, i feel like hes pretty good. But the just lately started to show it in official matches / qualifiers as well. before that, it was more or less speculation.
On October 29 2012 04:44 opisska wrote:
The western scene is too fragmented to really compare many of the people against each other. Also, making a list every other month is ridiculous, it really helps people who grind smaller tourneys against people with great achivements. Just look at Naniwa: his GSL ro8 is the biggest westerner achievment of the year and he is rank 9. Yes, he fell out, but that just shows how volatile the ranking is.
It really made sense in BW with Proleague, where there was a sheer amount of game and a relatively closed pool of players being constantly piched against each other, but in western SC2, I would not go below a half of year of granularity.
Western players are basically only NA and EU players and those play quite often against each other.
Naniwas GSL ro8 achievement is pretty long time ago now - big results like those keep a player very consistantly in the top ranks (naniwa wasnt out of top 3 ever in my lists). He just fell out this month because of the time that has passed and his lacking results (all he did was a bo9 vs nerchio that he lost 0-5). Just like IdrA (who seems on the upswing again) and HuK, big names like him drop of very, very slowly and have to show no results / bad results for a longer period of time. If you compare my rankings of the past months, its not that volitile at all.
Their performance in the last month isnt all i look at - past results are just as important.
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Ok MaNa, i didnt do you justice in that comment it seems ^^
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On October 29 2012 22:57 KalWarkov wrote:
Titan won 2-1 vs scarlett and just barely lost 2-3 to Hyun within the last month - but he also lost 8-2 (!) to Kas.
9-1 actually, but from then on he beat everybody else in the league, also qualified for IEM Singapore by crushing all three stages, didn't lose a single map.
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oh nightend, i knew it was too much :/
losing to hanfy is kind of ok - he won EPS over socke and hasuobs, but vs neoangel - idk :/
also, dimaga doesnt only seem to play very little - he also lost more skill than i expected since the last IEM performance. He has to put on some result to be in the next months ranking.
MaNa on Rank 4 doesnt seem to be correct either. Its so hard to put anyone else on that spot though, it should be empty to show the difference between Stephano, Nerchio and even Vortix to the rest currently.
Also, i was kind of bias towards TargA i think - in a negative way.
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Hey KalWarkov. My ranking is due as well. (probably tomorrow)
On October 29 2012 22:57 KalWarkov wrote:
He just fell out this month because of the time that has passed and his lacking results (all he did was a bo9 vs nerchio that he lost 0-5).
Thats not all he did. He was in MLG vs Proleague. And there he was the best non-Kespa player.
I don't think its justified to drop Naniwa like that.
You shouldn't overvalue that he dropped out of GSL. The best Koreans have and almost every foreigner would during 3 seasons.
Sase only played MLG vs Proleague and the World e-Sports Masters. You dropped him too much as well IMO.
Why Kas +5?
Snute +12 is a bit too much. Nightend +7 I don't understand at all.
Huk dropped out? I wrote last month already that you dropped him too much. He is still doing very well in NASL. Idra can drop out, but Huk absolutely not.
You know I always liked your ranking. This time I disagree the most so far.
But keep it up  .
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Thank you again for the ranking KalWarkov. The changes had a much faster pace this month, but in genreal I agree with most of it and because of recent RSL results I can´t even write my usual "scarlett is overrated"-paragraph here. Only things I still miss are a higher rank for Fraer (10-15) after defeating TheSTC and Nerchio at DH and elfi being in there. I know his mechanics are not top level, but he defeated MaNa, Lucifronn, TLO at Asus (+ viOLet at DH) and only fell one map short of winning it. He is probably favored against almost everyone in the lower half and I just can´t see him being lower than guys who haven´t done anything result-wise in a long time. Otherwise great job, the work is much appreciated.
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Nice list as usual, gonna be interesting to see the changes for December after all the big tournaments this month. Expecting Naniwa to get bumped back up to top 3 (5?) 
Not sure if Kas is worthy of a top 5 rank when he almost never does well in the most important tournaments (or might be that he's just not participating in enough tournaments - kinda hard to keep track of who's playing in what nowadays with all the tournies going on :D)
Also, Targa is definitely top 30
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On November 04 2012 00:21 00Visor wrote:Hey KalWarkov. My ranking is due as well. (probably tomorrow) Show nested quote +On October 29 2012 22:57 KalWarkov wrote:
He just fell out this month because of the time that has passed and his lacking results (all he did was a bo9 vs nerchio that he lost 0-5). Thats not all he did. He was in MLG vs Proleague. And there he was the best non-Kespa player. I don't think its justified to drop Naniwa like that. You shouldn't overvalue that he dropped out of GSL. The best Koreans have and almost every foreigner would during 3 seasons. Sase only played MLG vs Proleague and the World e-Sports Masters. You dropped him too much as well IMO. Why Kas +5? Snute +12 is a bit too much. Nightend +7 I don't understand at all. Huk dropped out? I wrote last month already that you dropped him too much. He is still doing very well in NASL. Idra can drop out, but Huk absolutely not. You know I always liked your ranking. This time I disagree the most so far. But keep it up .
I agree with these points, I think the OP neglected to factor in the NA leagues (NASL, MvP).
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/1stephanoi4eve.png)
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Stephano ------ 2.
