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Active: 613 users

Top30 Foreigners (November 2012)

Blogs > KalWarkov
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KalWarkov
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Germany4126 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-06 17:42:38
October 28 2012 17:52 GMT
#1

*** Vote at the bottom of this post ***




Introduction
+ Show Spoiler +

Hi guys!

To my and hopefully your excitement, i created a list of the best 30 foreign players. As you may know, those lists are rly subjective. I try to look at achievements and latest results, but its unavoidable to get personal opinions into this.
There is no such thing as the perfect „ranking“, but i enjoy doing those, most ppl enjoy reading them, but not many ppl put rankings out there.
My ranking is purely about foreign players and i exclude asian, non korean players as well – that means you wont find chinese or taiwanese players in my ranking. The simple reason being: i dont have much information about these scenes. I obviously know that Sen, Xigua and others are great players, but its impossible to compare them to the players in EU and NA. So you could consider it a „Western Foreigner Top 30“.

I put quite some work into it and i hope i get at least some reads, since i think a ranking made by a random person should be posted as a blog and not as a thread in the general section, even though it might end up with no responses at all.

So here is the list for this month!





Old Lists
+ Show Spoiler +

March 2012
April 2012
May 2012
June 2012
July 2012
August 2012
September 2012
October 2012






November 2012


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------ 1. (Wiki)Stephano ------ 2.(Wiki)Nerchio ------ 3.(Wiki)Vortix ------
------ 4. (Wiki)MaNa ------ 5.(Wiki)Kas ------ 6.(Wiki)Lucifron ------
------ 7. (Wiki)ThorZaiN ------ 8.(Wiki)TitaN ------ 9.(Wiki)NaNiWa ------
------ 10. (Wiki)SaSe ------ 11.(Wiki)Grubby ------ 12.(Wiki)Scarlett ------
------ 13. (Wiki)sLivko ------ 14.(Wiki)Happy ------ 15.(Wiki)Bly ------
------ 16. (Wiki)Snute ------ 17.(Wiki)Ret ------ 18.(Wiki)SortOf ------
------ 19. (Wiki)NightEnD ------ 20.(Wiki)Dimaga ------ 21.(Wiki)HasuObs ------
------ 22. (Wiki)BabyKnight ------ 23.(Wiki)MajOr ------ 24.(Wiki)DeMusliM ------
------- 25. (Wiki)Sheth ------ 26.(Wiki)TLO ------ 27.(Wiki)LoWeLy ------
------ 28. (Wiki)Socke ------ 29.(Wiki)LiveZerg ------ 30.(Wiki)Fraer ------





The following 20:

+ Show Spoiler +



IdrA
TargA
JRecco
ViBe
KiLLeR
Suppy
DarKFoRcE
Tefel




BeastyQt
BratOK
Strelok
ClouD
GoOdy
Naama




HuK
White-Ra
elfi
Feast
monchi
ToD







VOTE - Your opinion on the individual ranks:


+ Show Spoiler +

Poll: Rank 1: Stephano

about right (26)
 
93%

lower! (2)
 
7%

28 total votes

Your vote: Rank 1: Stephano

(Vote): about right
(Vote): lower!



Poll: Rank 2: Nerchio

about right (20)
 
91%

higher! (1)
 
5%

lower! (1)
 
5%

22 total votes

Your vote: Rank 2: Nerchio

(Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!



Poll: Rank 3: Vortix

about right (13)
 
52%

lower! (11)
 
44%

higher! (1)
 
4%

25 total votes

Your vote: Rank 3: Vortix

(Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!



Poll: Rank 4: MaNa

lower! (16)
 
62%

about right (8)
 
31%

higher! (2)
 
8%

26 total votes

Your vote: Rank 4: MaNa

(Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!



Poll: Rank 5: Kas

lower! (15)
 
60%

about right (10)
 
40%

higher! (0)
 
0%

25 total votes

Your vote: Rank 5: Kas

(Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!



Poll: Rank 6: Lucifron

about right (16)
 
70%

lower! (7)
 
30%

higher! (0)
 
0%

23 total votes

Your vote: Rank 6: Lucifron

(Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!



Poll: Rank 7: ThorZaiN

about right (11)
 
48%

lower! (7)
 
30%

higher! (5)
 
22%

23 total votes

Your vote: Rank 7: ThorZaiN

(Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!



Poll: Rank 8: TitaN

lower! (12)
 
48%

higher! (7)
 
28%

about right (6)
 
24%

25 total votes

Your vote: Rank 8: TitaN

(Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!



Poll: Rank 9: NaNiWa

higher! (21)
 
55%

lower! (13)
 
34%

about right (4)
 
11%

38 total votes

Your vote: Rank 9: NaNiWa

(Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!



Poll: Rank 10: SaSe

about right (9)
 
41%

higher! (7)
 
32%

lower! (6)
 
27%

22 total votes

Your vote: Rank 10: SaSe

(Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!



Poll: Rank 11: Grubby

about right (10)
 
38%

higher! (10)
 
38%

lower! (6)
 
23%

26 total votes

Your vote: Rank 11: Grubby

(Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!



Poll: Rank 12: Scarlett

higher! (13)
 
45%

about right (8)
 
28%

lower! (8)
 
28%

29 total votes

Your vote: Rank 12: Scarlett

(Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!



Poll: Rank 13: sLivko

lower! (18)
 
75%

about right (5)
 
21%

higher! (1)
 
4%

24 total votes

Your vote: Rank 13: sLivko

(Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!



Poll: Rank 14: Happy

lower! (13)
 
57%

about right (5)
 
22%

higher! (5)
 
22%

23 total votes

Your vote: Rank 14: Happy

(Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!



Poll: Rank 15: Bly

about right (11)
 
52%

lower! (6)
 
29%

higher! (4)
 
19%

21 total votes

Your vote: Rank 15: Bly

(Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!



Poll: Rank 16: Snute

about right (11)
 
55%

lower! (5)
 
25%

higher! (4)
 
20%

20 total votes

Your vote: Rank 16: Snute

(Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!



Poll: Rank 17: Ret

lower! (14)
 
64%

about right (4)
 
18%

higher! (4)
 
18%

22 total votes

Your vote: Rank 17: Ret

(Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!



Poll: Rank 18: SortOf

lower! (13)
 
62%

about right (4)
 
19%

higher! (4)
 
19%

21 total votes

Your vote: Rank 18: SortOf

(Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!



Poll: Rank 19: NightEnD

lower! (11)
 
42%

higher! (9)
 
35%

about right (6)
 
23%

26 total votes

Your vote: Rank 19: NightEnD

(Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!



Poll: Rank 20: Dimaga

lower! (15)
 
75%

higher! (4)
 
20%

about right (1)
 
5%

20 total votes

Your vote: Rank 20: Dimaga

(Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!



Poll: Rank 21: HasuObs

higher! (13)
 
52%

lower! (7)
 
28%

about right (5)
 
20%

25 total votes

Your vote: Rank 21: HasuObs

(Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!



Poll: Rank 22: BabyKnight

higher! (16)
 
64%

about right (5)
 
20%

lower! (4)
 
16%

25 total votes

Your vote: Rank 22: BabyKnight

(Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!



Poll: Rank 23: MajOr

higher! (14)
 
64%

about right (5)
 
23%

lower! (3)
 
14%

22 total votes

Your vote: Rank 23: MajOr

(Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!



Poll: Rank 24: DeMusliM

higher! (12)
 
50%

lower! (7)
 
29%

about right (5)
 
21%

24 total votes

Your vote: Rank 24: DeMusliM

(Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!



Poll: Rank 25: Sheth

lower! (15)
 
65%

about right (4)
 
17%

higher! (4)
 
17%

23 total votes

Your vote: Rank 25: Sheth

(Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!



Poll: Rank 26: TLO

higher! (10)
 
43%

lower! (8)
 
35%

about right (5)
 
22%

23 total votes

Your vote: Rank 26: TLO

(Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!



Poll: Rank 27: LoWeLy

lower! (12)
 
63%

about right (5)
 
26%

higher! (2)
 
11%

19 total votes

Your vote: Rank 27: LoWeLy

(Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!



Poll: Rank 28: Socke

about right (11)
 
61%

higher! (5)
 
28%

lower! (2)
 
11%

18 total votes

Your vote: Rank 28: Socke

(Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!



Poll: Rank 29: LiveZerg

about right (11)
 
61%

lower! (6)
 
33%

higher! (1)
 
6%

18 total votes

Your vote: Rank 29: LiveZerg

(Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!



Poll: Rank 30: Fraer

higher! (16)
 
80%

about right (3)
 
15%

lower! (1)
 
5%

20 total votes

Your vote: Rank 30: Fraer

(Vote): about right
(Vote): higher!
(Vote): lower!





_______________



+ Show Spoiler +

Poll: Which Zerg belongs to the Top 30?

IdrA (10)
 
37%

TargA (6)
 
22%

JonnyRecco (5)
 
19%

ViBe (3)
 
11%

DarKFoRcE (2)
 
7%

KiLLeR (1)
 
4%

Suppy (0)
 
0%

Tefel (0)
 
0%

27 total votes

Your vote: Which Zerg belongs to the Top 30?

(Vote): IdrA
(Vote): TargA
(Vote): JonnyRecco
(Vote): ViBe
(Vote): KiLLeR
(Vote): Suppy
(Vote): DarKFoRcE
(Vote): Tefel




Poll: Which Protoss belongs to the Top 30?

HuK (8)
 
29%

elfi (7)
 
25%

monchi (6)
 
21%

White-Ra (3)
 
11%

Feast (3)
 
11%

ToD (1)
 
4%

28 total votes

Your vote: Which Protoss belongs to the Top 30?

(Vote): HuK
(Vote): White-Ra
(Vote): elfi
(Vote): Feast
(Vote): monchi
(Vote): ToD




Poll: Which Terran belongs to the Top 30?

BeastyQt (7)
 
39%

Naama (6)
 
33%

GoOdy (3)
 
17%

ClouD (1)
 
6%

Strelok (1)
 
6%

BratOK (0)
 
0%

18 total votes

Your vote: Which Terran belongs to the Top 30?

(Vote): BeastyQt
(Vote): BratOK
(Vote): ClouD
(Vote): Strelok
(Vote): GoOdy
(Vote): Naama
















And if you cant get enough of rankings:
00Visor's Korean SC2 Ranking!







****
DiaBoLuS ** Sc2 - Protoss: 16x GM | Dota2 - Offlane Immortal | Wc3 - Undead decent level | Diablo nerd | Chess / Magnus fanboy | BVB | Agnostic***
StarVe
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany13591 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-28 18:10:32
October 28 2012 17:57 GMT
#2
fraer should be higher than Hasu, Socke, Sheth, Ret, TLO, Lowely, LiveZerg, etc.

He's in sick shape atm, whether it's online in Playhems, ZOTAC Cups ( he won the Monthly Final again over TSLRevival), he's 5-1 in EG Master's Cup with wins over Thorzain, HasuObs, JonnyREcco, Nerchio and Nightend, he did well offline at DreamHack, beating Nerchio again and TheSTC, I could go on for a long time.

If you're able to perform well offline and online, I see no reason not to rank him quite a bit higher.

Just saying. I'll edit with more thoughts later, probably.

I'd switch Bly and sLivko.
tMomiji
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States1115 Posts
October 28 2012 18:07 GMT
#3
Glad to see Socke on there. Sase and Demuslim and Thorzain I think should definitely be higher though. But why is White-Ra not on the list? o-o
"I wonder if there is a league below copper? If so, I would like to inhabit it." -TotalBiscuit "In the event of a sudden change in cabin pressure, ROOF FLIES OFF!" -George Carlin <3 HerO <3 Kiwikaki <3 MKP
AngryMag
Profile Joined November 2011
Germany1040 Posts
October 28 2012 19:25 GMT
#4
In my humble opinion: Fraer should be higher, he (was) pretty inconsistant but did well in the last months.

Scarlett should be lower, winning WCS NA is fine and dandy, but the level of competition lacks. Apart from that we basically saw nothing, no entries in other tourneys so far.

These are the mainpoints that bother me, you could argue about other players, one position higher or lower, but generally the list seems pretty spot on for me.
isaachukfan
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
Canada785 Posts
October 28 2012 19:43 GMT
#5
though i am biased, as my name suggests, I think HuK should be higher on this.
I'm a mennonite, yes I'm allowed to use a computer
opisska
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Poland8852 Posts
October 28 2012 19:44 GMT
#6
The western scene is too fragmented to really compare many of the people against each other. Also, making a list every other month is ridiculous, it really helps people who grind smaller tourneys against people with great achivements. Just look at Naniwa: his GSL ro8 is the biggest westerner achievment of the year and he is rank 9. Yes, he fell out, but that just shows how volatile the ranking is.

It really made sense in BW with Proleague, where there was a sheer amount of game and a relatively closed pool of players being constantly piched against each other, but in western SC2, I would not go below a half of year of granularity.
"Jeez, that's far from ideal." - Serral, the king of mild trashtalk
TL+ Member
Hier
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
2391 Posts
October 28 2012 20:22 GMT
#7
Good list overall. I feel JonnyREcco should be cracking the top 30 soon, though. Also, is it possible to spoiler all those polls?
"But on a more serious note..." -everyone on this forum at some point.
Aerisky
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States12129 Posts
October 28 2012 20:27 GMT
#8
It would be nicer if you spoiled your polls, but not too bad of a ranking at all! Pretty difficult to rank people for sure, and all things considered you did a good job :D
Jim while Johnny had had had had had had had; had had had had the better effect on the teacher.
KalWarkov
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Germany4126 Posts
October 28 2012 20:42 GMT
#9
polls in spoilers now, thanks for the tip and ur feedback!^^

Fraer seems pretty undervalued by me as it seems - also i think IdrA shouldve probably stayed in the ranking. Ofc he doesnt win lots of official matches, but hes consistantly top 3 na GM with a sick record and play.
I think he will show great stuff in the near future.
I dont know why u ppl think sLivko doesnt deserve to be that high. He had some weaker results in the last month, but hes still pretty sick of a player imo ;/
DiaBoLuS ** Sc2 - Protoss: 16x GM | Dota2 - Offlane Immortal | Wc3 - Undead decent level | Diablo nerd | Chess / Magnus fanboy | BVB | Agnostic***
StarVe
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany13591 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-28 21:16:58
October 28 2012 21:10 GMT
#10
On October 29 2012 05:42 KalWarkov wrote:
polls in spoilers now, thanks for the tip and ur feedback!^^

Fraer seems pretty undervalued by me as it seems - also i think IdrA shouldve probably stayed in the ranking. Ofc he doesnt win lots of official matches, but hes consistantly top 3 na GM with a sick record and play.
I think he will show great stuff in the near future.
I dont know why u ppl think sLivko doesnt deserve to be that high. He had some weaker results in the last month, but hes still pretty sick of a player imo ;/

I do think he's a talented and good player, he just didn't have anything outstanding this month and since the team switch he hasn't had many opportunities in team leagues either. That's why I'd suggest switching him and Bly, or just putting Bly ahead of sLivko and Happy since Bly has been consistent, too, but also performed pretty well offline and online this month.

It wouldn't change much, one rank up or down is pretty negligible imho, but reflect the current performances a bit which is part of what the ranking is about, isn't it? It's not that I don't think sLivko doesn't deserve to be that high, I'd just give a little nod to Bly for getting second at DreamHack and all that stuff.

I'm quite excited to see how TitaN will do at WCS and IEM Singapore next month, if he plays well enough this could warrant ranking him a bit higher still, I don't think he's far away from ThorZaIN/Kas. I'm still waiting for his big breakout, he's done decent at quite a few events, but nothing that catapulted him into the spotlight. TitaN is such a good and smart player, I'd really like him to be appreciated a bit more by the general audience.

It's a bit like with Lucifron who was always known to be really, really talented but he only really got acknowledged after his run at WCS Europe.
Luepert
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States1933 Posts
October 28 2012 21:18 GMT
#11
I must have missed something, why did titan jump, I though he would be off of this by now.
esports
Mementoss
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Canada2595 Posts
October 28 2012 21:41 GMT
#12
does huk not play anymore I havent seen him do anything
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uu96xMwFVXw
Tppz!
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany1449 Posts
October 29 2012 00:28 GMT
#13
Sen wouldnt even deserve to be Top 30 btw. He didnt do anything since like .. NASL Season 1?

Other than that:
Kas & Thorzain too high - their reputation si more base on their wins moth ago.
Titan - dont knnow why he would be above scarlett, grubby, naniwa, sase, etc - did i miss something?
Grubby & Scarlett way too low.
DIMAGA is a very nice guy. But he doesnt deserve such a high placement considering his skills right now.
Major just now entering the lsit also seems very weird to me. He is one of the 3 best Terrans right now outside Korea.

Other stuff:
sure elfi is the worst player ever in esports mechanically but he wins. and he wins lot. and has a lot more success than .. well nearly everyone one that list. Why is he not in the top 30?
Also ViBe, TargA and BeastyQT should be on the top 30. IdrA shouldnt be even named in the top 50 list ;D
KalWarkov
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Germany4126 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-03 18:53:34
October 29 2012 13:57 GMT
#14
Titan won 2-1 vs scarlett and just barely lost 2-3 to Hyun within the last month - but he also lost 8-2 (!) to Kas.

Its not about Titan doing well to jump up - its just that NO player from rank 4 on showed good performances - the most solid of them was Kas followed by Titan.

NaNiWa showed about nothing besides his 0-5 vs Nerchio, we didnt see anything of SaSe.
MaNa was in Korea but didnt show good results after his Code S qualification. Lucifron and thorzain can look rly strong, but they also have bad results mixed in. Still, they moved up one, simply because of NaNiWa / SaSe dropping off.

As you can see in the poll - everyone from rank 4 to 10 should be "lower" - the problem is that no1 is there to fill the gap. thats why there is little to no movement there and even decent results are enough to jump up. I dont think Scarlett/Bly/Grubby/Snute have shown enough to take those top 10 spots, although they might do so in the future.

Oh and MajOr - he still didnt have any big results, didnt he? he lost 2-3 in TSL vs JRecco (which gave him a top 30 spot in that month) and ye, i feel like hes pretty good. But the just lately started to show it in official matches / qualifiers as well. before that, it was more or less speculation.


On October 29 2012 04:44 opisska wrote:
The western scene is too fragmented to really compare many of the people against each other. Also, making a list every other month is ridiculous, it really helps people who grind smaller tourneys against people with great achivements. Just look at Naniwa: his GSL ro8 is the biggest westerner achievment of the year and he is rank 9. Yes, he fell out, but that just shows how volatile the ranking is.

It really made sense in BW with Proleague, where there was a sheer amount of game and a relatively closed pool of players being constantly piched against each other, but in western SC2, I would not go below a half of year of granularity.



Western players are basically only NA and EU players and those play quite often against each other.
Naniwas GSL ro8 achievement is pretty long time ago now - big results like those keep a player very consistantly in the top ranks (naniwa wasnt out of top 3 ever in my lists). He just fell out this month because of the time that has passed and his lacking results (all he did was a bo9 vs nerchio that he lost 0-5). Just like IdrA (who seems on the upswing again) and HuK, big names like him drop of very, very slowly and have to show no results / bad results for a longer period of time. If you compare my rankings of the past months, its not that volitile at all.
Their performance in the last month isnt all i look at - past results are just as important.

-----

Ok MaNa, i didnt do you justice in that comment it seems ^^
DiaBoLuS ** Sc2 - Protoss: 16x GM | Dota2 - Offlane Immortal | Wc3 - Undead decent level | Diablo nerd | Chess / Magnus fanboy | BVB | Agnostic***
StarVe
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany13591 Posts
October 29 2012 14:44 GMT
#15
On October 29 2012 22:57 KalWarkov wrote:
Titan won 2-1 vs scarlett and just barely lost 2-3 to Hyun within the last month - but he also lost 8-2 (!) to Kas.

9-1 actually, but from then on he beat everybody else in the league, also qualified for IEM Singapore by crushing all three stages, didn't lose a single map.
KalWarkov
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Germany4126 Posts
November 02 2012 14:43 GMT
#16
oh nightend, i knew it was too much :/
losing to hanfy is kind of ok - he won EPS over socke and hasuobs, but vs neoangel - idk :/

also, dimaga doesnt only seem to play very little - he also lost more skill than i expected since the last IEM performance. He has to put on some result to be in the next months ranking.

MaNa on Rank 4 doesnt seem to be correct either. Its so hard to put anyone else on that spot though, it should be empty to show the difference between Stephano, Nerchio and even Vortix to the rest currently.

Also, i was kind of bias towards TargA i think - in a negative way.
DiaBoLuS ** Sc2 - Protoss: 16x GM | Dota2 - Offlane Immortal | Wc3 - Undead decent level | Diablo nerd | Chess / Magnus fanboy | BVB | Agnostic***
00Visor
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
4337 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-03 15:29:24
November 03 2012 15:21 GMT
#17
Hey KalWarkov. My ranking is due as well. (probably tomorrow)

On October 29 2012 22:57 KalWarkov wrote:
He just fell out this month because of the time that has passed and his lacking results (all he did was a bo9 vs nerchio that he lost 0-5).


Thats not all he did. He was in MLG vs Proleague. And there he was the best non-Kespa player.
I don't think its justified to drop Naniwa like that.
You shouldn't overvalue that he dropped out of GSL. The best Koreans have and almost every foreigner would during 3 seasons.

Sase only played MLG vs Proleague and the World e-Sports Masters. You dropped him too much as well IMO.

Why Kas +5?

Snute +12 is a bit too much. Nightend +7 I don't understand at all.

Huk dropped out? I wrote last month already that you dropped him too much. He is still doing very well in NASL. Idra can drop out, but Huk absolutely not.

You know I always liked your ranking. This time I disagree the most so far.
But keep it up .
Xoronius
Profile Joined July 2011
Germany6362 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-03 20:31:58
November 03 2012 20:31 GMT
#18
Thank you again for the ranking KalWarkov. The changes had a much faster pace this month, but in genreal I agree with most of it and because of recent RSL results I can´t even write my usual "scarlett is overrated"-paragraph here. Only things I still miss are a higher rank for Fraer (10-15) after defeating TheSTC and Nerchio at DH and elfi being in there. I know his mechanics are not top level, but he defeated MaNa, Lucifronn, TLO at Asus (+ viOLet at DH) and only fell one map short of winning it. He is probably favored against almost everyone in the lower half and I just can´t see him being lower than guys who haven´t done anything result-wise in a long time. Otherwise great job, the work is much appreciated.
OKMarius
Profile Joined October 2010
Norway469 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-04 20:30:59
November 04 2012 20:26 GMT
#19
Nice list as usual, gonna be interesting to see the changes for December after all the big tournaments this month. Expecting Naniwa to get bumped back up to top 3 (5?)

Not sure if Kas is worthy of a top 5 rank when he almost never does well in the most important tournaments (or might be that he's just not participating in enough tournaments - kinda hard to keep track of who's playing in what nowadays with all the tournies going on :D)

Also, Targa is definitely top 30
LlamaNamedOsama
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States1900 Posts
November 04 2012 21:22 GMT
#20
On November 04 2012 00:21 00Visor wrote:
Hey KalWarkov. My ranking is due as well. (probably tomorrow)

Show nested quote +
On October 29 2012 22:57 KalWarkov wrote:
He just fell out this month because of the time that has passed and his lacking results (all he did was a bo9 vs nerchio that he lost 0-5).


Thats not all he did. He was in MLG vs Proleague. And there he was the best non-Kespa player.
I don't think its justified to drop Naniwa like that.
You shouldn't overvalue that he dropped out of GSL. The best Koreans have and almost every foreigner would during 3 seasons.

Sase only played MLG vs Proleague and the World e-Sports Masters. You dropped him too much as well IMO.

Why Kas +5?

Snute +12 is a bit too much. Nightend +7 I don't understand at all.

Huk dropped out? I wrote last month already that you dropped him too much. He is still doing very well in NASL. Idra can drop out, but Huk absolutely not.

You know I always liked your ranking. This time I disagree the most so far.
But keep it up .


I agree with these points, I think the OP neglected to factor in the NA leagues (NASL, MvP).
Dario Wünsch: I guess...Creator...met his maker *sunglasses*
StarGalaxy
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany744 Posts
November 06 2012 00:09 GMT
#21
Great idea with the polls.
Maybe we can get a ranking out of polls if more ppl participate.


Highly overrated imho (more than 5 places):
Grubby; Dimaga, Happy
overrated: Vortix, Sortof, Slivko

Highly underrated imho:
frear, Huk, Hasuobs

underrated: Titan, major
Cj hero | Zest
KalWarkov
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Germany4126 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-06 17:53:48
November 06 2012 17:46 GMT
#22
NASL and MvP have about the same meaning as any online tournament - MvP even less.

Kas +5 cuz u can read the thread.
1) its +4
2) he has the most consistent results of all rank 5-10 players lately. ever chekced tlpd?

Snute is a monster currently. NightEnD was concidered to be too low by almost everyone. he recently fell out of a tournament in the group stage, which was AFTER the ranking was posted.
HuK dropped out because he doesnt do shit besides NASL - and his score doesnt tell the whole story there.
Apparently, i would rank IdrA in and leave HuK still out after MLG (my whole ranking would look stlightly different now (see spoiler / unofficial :D ).

+ Show Spoiler +
1 – Stephano
2 – Nerchio
3 – Vortix
4 – MaNa
5 – NaNiWa
6 – Lucifron
7 – Kas
8 – Scarlett
9 – TiTaN
10 – SaSe
11 – ThorZaiN
12 - Bly
13 - Grubby
14 - Happy
15 - BabyKnight
16 - Snute
17 - SortOf
18 - sLivko
19 - HasuObs
20 - Fraer
21 - IdrA
22 - Ret
23 - MajOr
24 - NightEnD
25 - TargA
26 - Sheth
27 - TLO
28 - mOOnGlaDe
29 - Socke
30 - DeMusliM


€: calling vortix overrated is an incredible JOKE.
he - doesnt - lose - games - anymore (TLPD is so fucking incomplete here...). sry guys, its just true atm :D
DiaBoLuS ** Sc2 - Protoss: 16x GM | Dota2 - Offlane Immortal | Wc3 - Undead decent level | Diablo nerd | Chess / Magnus fanboy | BVB | Agnostic***
00Visor
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
4337 Posts
November 07 2012 01:47 GMT
#23
On November 07 2012 02:46 KalWarkov wrote:
Kas +5 cuz u can read the thread.
1) its +4
2) he has the most consistent results of all rank 5-10 players lately. ever chekced tlpd?


Kas actually doesnt have any games listed on TLPD for October. So how does that explain why you raised him 4 spots during that exact month?
Some results I found for October:
EG MCSL: 0-2 Taeja, 2-0 puck, 0-2 Golden, 1-2 Bling
Pokerstrategy League: 3-7 Grubby, 7-3 Morrow
Asus ROG: 2-1 Mana, 2-1 elfi, 0-2 TLO, 2-1 Nightend, 1-3 Thorzain
Stim to the win: 3-1 Titan, 3-1 Hasuobs
Ritmix: 0-3 Titan, 2-0 Symbol, 0-2 Bomber

Its decent, but not too consistent with losses against Bling, Grubby and TLO. Doesnt reward +4 IMO.

HuK dropped out because he doesnt do shit besides NASL - and his score doesnt tell the whole story there.
Apparently, i would rank IdrA in and leave HuK still out after MLG (my whole ranking would look stlightly different now (see spoiler / unofficial :D ).

+ Show Spoiler +
1 – Stephano
2 – Nerchio
3 – Vortix
4 – MaNa
5 – NaNiWa
6 – Lucifron
7 – Kas
8 – Scarlett
9 – TiTaN
10 – SaSe
11 – ThorZaiN
12 - Bly
13 - Grubby
14 - Happy
15 - BabyKnight
16 - Snute
17 - SortOf
18 - sLivko
19 - HasuObs
20 - Fraer
21 - IdrA
22 - Ret
23 - MajOr
24 - NightEnD
25 - TargA
26 - Sheth
27 - TLO
28 - mOOnGlaDe
29 - Socke
30 - DeMusliM


You really would rank Idra back on 21 just because of MLG?
Idras match score there was 3-3. He beat Apocalypse, Glon and Grubby, while losing to TheSTC, Babyknight and Soulkey.
Huk was 3-2 (pool allows 1 more loss). He beat Shew, Sasquatch and Vibe, losing to Daisy and moonglade.
(not saying Huks run was better, Idra had stronger opponents)

Lets compare other results: MLGMvP Huk managed to get into the playoffs while Idra began forfeiting matches after a very bad start.

IPTL: Huk beat Genius and Arthur, lost to Miso and DRG. No start for Idra.
EG MCSL: Idra 1-2 Vibe, 2-0 Hawk, 0-2 Goswser, 0-2 Arthur, 0-2 Hasuobs
Huk 2-0 Genius, 0-2 Protosser

Other individual results: (not much for Idra?)
GSL WC: Huk 2-0 Vibe
NASL: Huk 2-0 Ret, 2-1 Morrow, 2-1 Arthur, 1-2 Hasuobs, 2-1 alive, 0-2 Polt, 2-0 Masa
IPL 5 Satellite: Huk 2-0 Cyrano, 2-0 Ryung, 2-0 Shine
IEM Singapore qualifier: Idra 3-2 Boyo, 3-0 Demuslim.

Please tell if I missed anything important in the last 2 months.

Huk is overall 13-5 in Bo3+. 44% of matches were vs Koreans.
Idra is overall 6-7 in Bo3+. 23% of matches were vs Koreans.

Huk has the much better winrate playing better opponents.
KalWarkov
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Germany4126 Posts
November 08 2012 14:41 GMT
#24
On November 07 2012 10:47 00Visor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 07 2012 02:46 KalWarkov wrote:
Kas +5 cuz u can read the thread.
1) its +4
2) he has the most consistent results of all rank 5-10 players lately. ever chekced tlpd?


Kas actually doesnt have any games listed on TLPD for October. So how does that explain why you raised him 4 spots during that exact month?
Some results I found for October:
EG MCSL: 0-2 Taeja, 2-0 puck, 0-2 Golden, 1-2 Bling
Pokerstrategy League: 3-7 Grubby, 7-3 Morrow
Asus ROG: 2-1 Mana, 2-1 elfi, 0-2 TLO, 2-1 Nightend, 1-3 Thorzain
Stim to the win: 3-1 Titan, 3-1 Hasuobs
Ritmix: 0-3 Titan, 2-0 Symbol, 0-2 Bomber

Its decent, but not too consistent with losses against Bling, Grubby and TLO. Doesnt reward +4 IMO.

Show nested quote +
HuK dropped out because he doesnt do shit besides NASL - and his score doesnt tell the whole story there.
Apparently, i would rank IdrA in and leave HuK still out after MLG (my whole ranking would look stlightly different now (see spoiler / unofficial :D ).

+ Show Spoiler +
1 – Stephano
2 – Nerchio
3 – Vortix
4 – MaNa
5 – NaNiWa
6 – Lucifron
7 – Kas
8 – Scarlett
9 – TiTaN
10 – SaSe
11 – ThorZaiN
12 - Bly
13 - Grubby
14 - Happy
15 - BabyKnight
16 - Snute
17 - SortOf
18 - sLivko
19 - HasuObs
20 - Fraer
21 - IdrA
22 - Ret
23 - MajOr
24 - NightEnD
25 - TargA
26 - Sheth
27 - TLO
28 - mOOnGlaDe
29 - Socke
30 - DeMusliM


You really would rank Idra back on 21 just because of MLG?
Idras match score there was 3-3. He beat Apocalypse, Glon and Grubby, while losing to TheSTC, Babyknight and Soulkey.
Huk was 3-2 (pool allows 1 more loss). He beat Shew, Sasquatch and Vibe, losing to Daisy and moonglade.
(not saying Huks run was better, Idra had stronger opponents)

Lets compare other results: MLGMvP Huk managed to get into the playoffs while Idra began forfeiting matches after a very bad start.

IPTL: Huk beat Genius and Arthur, lost to Miso and DRG. No start for Idra.
EG MCSL: Idra 1-2 Vibe, 2-0 Hawk, 0-2 Goswser, 0-2 Arthur, 0-2 Hasuobs
Huk 2-0 Genius, 0-2 Protosser

Other individual results: (not much for Idra?)
GSL WC: Huk 2-0 Vibe
NASL: Huk 2-0 Ret, 2-1 Morrow, 2-1 Arthur, 1-2 Hasuobs, 2-1 alive, 0-2 Polt, 2-0 Masa
IPL 5 Satellite: Huk 2-0 Cyrano, 2-0 Ryung, 2-0 Shine
IEM Singapore qualifier: Idra 3-2 Boyo, 3-0 Demuslim.

Please tell if I missed anything important in the last 2 months.

Huk is overall 13-5 in Bo3+. 44% of matches were vs Koreans.
Idra is overall 6-7 in Bo3+. 23% of matches were vs Koreans.

Huk has the much better winrate playing better opponents.



but HuKs good results were mostly online.
IdrA's play simply looks much more stable and stronger than HuK's
Also, the listing from Kas' results is incomplete - 9-1 vs TiTaN for example.
Again: his late results arent rly that impressive, i agree on that. BUT... the results of the others are even worse! just recently, he 8-2d socke again, who seems on a bit of an upswing again compared to the month before (winning against grubby).

but ye, thanks for listing HuKs results so closely, i wasnt aware of every single one since i dont have as much time to follow the NA leagues as before (dont get me wrong, i watched EVERYTHING before :D i still see quite a lot^^).
DiaBoLuS ** Sc2 - Protoss: 16x GM | Dota2 - Offlane Immortal | Wc3 - Undead decent level | Diablo nerd | Chess / Magnus fanboy | BVB | Agnostic***
00Visor
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
4337 Posts
November 08 2012 19:28 GMT
#25
Kas 9-1 vs TitaN was already September. I looked for all of his results in October.
He passed Lucifron, Thorzain, Naniwa and Sase in October. If you say they have really done worse, I don't agree. (Lucifron did so-so like Kas, Thorzain won TheGD Invitational - beating Kas too, Nani and Sase see my first post)

On Idra I don't think at all that his play looks stable.

My Top15: (as of now)
1. Stephano
2. Nerchio
3. Mana
4. Naniwa
5. vortix
6. Sase
7. Lucifron
8. Kas
9. Thorzain
10. TitaN
11. Scarlett
12. fraer
13. Grubby
14. Bly
15. Happy
(made me realize I didnt mention yet how heavily underrated fraer is)
StarGalaxy
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany744 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-12 22:12:52
November 12 2012 21:57 GMT
#26
€: calling vortix overrated is an incredible JOKE.
he - doesnt - lose - games - anymore (TLPD is so fucking incomplete here...). sry guys, its just true atm :D


I wasn't joking. I don't think he is better than e.g. mana. That's just my subjective opinion.
Not saying he doesn't deserve to be at the top but to say he is smashing everyone right now is just exaggerated.
Just some lost ZvZ's of him in october:
------------------
29.10.2012
Scarlett
3:2
Vortix
2012 Ritmix RSL Season 2
------------------
21.10.2012
luvsic
2:1
Vortix
Iron Squid - Chapter II Open Qualifier
------------------
07.10.2012
Bly
2:0
Vortix
THOR OPEN 2012 Qualifiers
------------------
27.09.2012
Stephano
3:0
Vortix
MSI Pro Cup Worldwide European Qualifier
---------------------------------------------


I don't know why you guys are even considering idra.
He is not even a top Zerg in NA atm.
Scarlett, sheth, vibe, suppy>>idra


My Top15: (as of now)
1. Stephano
2. Nerchio
3. Mana
4. Lucifron
5. vortix
6. Kas
7. Naniwa
8. Scarlett
9. TitaN
10. Thorzain
11. Snute
12. Sase
13. BabyKnight
14. fraer
15. HasuObs
Cj hero | Zest
KalWarkov
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Germany4126 Posts
November 17 2012 14:13 GMT
#27
some things have to change.. wcs showed it.
although i obviously dont read too much into a 4 man / ~6 maps each-ish group system with single elim bracket.
DiaBoLuS ** Sc2 - Protoss: 16x GM | Dota2 - Offlane Immortal | Wc3 - Undead decent level | Diablo nerd | Chess / Magnus fanboy | BVB | Agnostic***
KalWarkov
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Germany4126 Posts
November 26 2012 13:23 GMT
#28
Next ranking will be out the day after IPL 5.
DiaBoLuS ** Sc2 - Protoss: 16x GM | Dota2 - Offlane Immortal | Wc3 - Undead decent level | Diablo nerd | Chess / Magnus fanboy | BVB | Agnostic***
virpi
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Germany3598 Posts
November 28 2012 11:13 GMT
#29
Dimaga hasn't played well for a loong time, and so has ret. (Especially the latter one makes me pretty sad.)
I think, they're both too high on this list. The top 3 seem to be ok, even though there's no clear favourite for the third place.
first we make expand, then we defense it.
BreAKerTV
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Taiwan1658 Posts
November 28 2012 14:37 GMT
#30
Why is Sen not up there?
Retired caster / streamer "BingeHD". Digital Nomad.
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