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konadora
Singapore66357 Posts
As I began my one hour journey back home, I slowly thought about how the finals could have been better handled.
And imo, they were more or less handled the best they could have been.
Let's begin with the key issue that trigger all the nerdrage in the LR thread. Flash was applying consistent pressure on the key 7 o'clock dual-gas expansion with his 2-2 MnM force, while Jaedong was on four gas and was slowly pushing Flash back. Flash was just about to start his mineral-only expansion. At this moment, the power fails and later on, after analysis by KeSPA, the game was given to Jaedong.
Now, many people posted about how there should have been a rematch. I, too, at first thought about a rematch. But then as I slowly calmed down and collected my thoughts, I felt that KeSPA made the best possible decision they could.
What they did was:
- Didn't ask players for opinions
- Analysed the VOD right til the moment of crash (not the replay)
I believe that their decision was a wise one.
Flash would probably have wanted a rematch because he would have believed that he would be able to take down the 7 o'clock soon. Also, what if he had dropships (which we would never know due to the non-existence of a replay) and was able to take down the 3 o'clock expansion? What if Jaedong forgot to make defilers and due to poor positioning, lost all his ultras? What if Flash then slowly made his comeback from there? You get my point.
Jaedong, on the other hand, would not have wanted one. His defiler usage is excellent, and being on four gas at that moment, he would have been confident in being able to fend off the pressure on 7 o'clock, as well as any other attempts by Flash to shut down his other mining expansions. Nydus canals were also placed down, which makes counting this possibility out rather unreasonable. Furthermore, he was ahead in terms of upgrades (while Flash was on 2-2, Jaedong's ultras were on 2 attack, 5 armor. Flash also had very little vessels for a 2-port SK Terran).
Logically speaking, Jaedong is the obvious winner, but for KeSPA, it isn't really that easy. If both players were to argue their case, what would KeSPA then do?
Go for a rematch?
Or not?
Either way, there will be talks of favoritism, which will further stain this already tainted MSL (as well as KeSPA, which was notorious for making rather brainless decisions). Hence, I believe this was the right move by the referees. If replays were available then it would have been much easier to come to a decision for which everyone would agree on, but since all players, observers and referee in the game were disconnected (although this makes me wonder, wouldn't there be the LastReplay auto-save? Or does it get corrupted?), we can't do much about it.
Well of course, KT couldn't just sit back and watch their young boy being handed out an automatic loss without fighting til the end. It's Starcraft, who knows what might happen? Did we know TT would lose to sAviOr on Neo Requiem 5 minutes into the game? I think not. Same went for game 3 of the clash between these two titans.
KT reportedly went to contest KeSPA's decision, which they felt was unfair. With KeSPA saying no, KT's coach, staff and the entire team decided to walk over, dragging Flash along.
This led to the insanely long dragging of time. The poor commentators had to consistently think of new lines for almost 2 hours as people tried to get Flash back to playing. MBCGame had to constantly run commercials to fill in the blank time so as not to create chaos in the studio (although with mobile internet, this might still have happened anyway). We may not know what was on Flash's mind at the period of time (I have yet to check Fomos or Daily eSports), but there would be no doubt that this would have negatively affected Flash as he was stuck between the option of continuing the series as he's down 1 game "unfairly" (once again, this may change according to Flash's thought at that moment) and the option of just walking over in protest - something that just screams "no sportsmanship".
We may not have seen the actual Flash in the 4th game. Sure, most of his games on Fighting Spirit involved going standard opening (no 8rax, etc) and winning with sheer mechanics and may blame the decision made in the 3rd set for Flash's choice of build order in the fourth, but I think regardless of the outcome in the third, Flash still may have gone for 8 rax - a mindgame he was willing to play against Jaedong.
However, you can definitely notice some hints of Flash's concentration dropping, for example when he let Jaedong's ling get past his natural, check his main and giving away the fact that he was going 2 rax academy. The Flash on EVER 2009 OSL wouldn't have let this happen. Who wouldn't when you have:
- Your father raging so hard that he had to be escorted out?
- Your entire TEAM decides to make you walkover
- You were just given a loss for a game you may have been able to win
Jaedong went on to simply outplay Flash in the fourth game, similar to the third game (though in the fourth set, Flash did seem to play slightly worse) and was crowned the winner of the Nate 2009 MSL.
From today's games, I feel that Jaedong deserves this title. Then yet again, questions flow into my mind.
"What if Jaedong won the third set after fighting it out to the end instead of being given a free win that left a bitter aftertaste on both players? Would Flash have chosen another build for Fighting Spirit? How greatly would that have affected the results today?'
"What if MBC was able to prevent this?"
These questions will forever remain unanswered, and I rest tonight with a bitter thought. How should I say this...
It's like going to a prestigious restaurant and having a meal of your life, but not without having a nasty encounter that left a bad impression on the place nevertheless. Something like that I guess.
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pretty much agree with this. Goddamn that was the worst power outage ever 
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I'm gonna copy my own comment from the other thread .....
So the way i see it Kespa giving JD the win was the better decision . So the one who fucked up the series is not Kespa but MBC of course and to a good degree KTF and Flash's dad ? They raged out and started going berserk at the Kespa referee , when the more sane approach should have been just cheering up Flash and telling him to not lose focus on his next game .
It's unfortunate that Flash had to go through all that , but Jaedong's win is as legit as they come .....
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if there had been a replay, would that have been better or worse?
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Would of been an epic game if this didn't happen
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Thanks kona, you're refreshingly sane.
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Agreed... given the unfortunate circumstances, I think this was the best Kespa could do.
But yeah. Shitty fucking power outage.
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konadora
Singapore66357 Posts
On January 23 2010 23:44 29 fps wrote:
if there had been a replay, would that have been better or worse?
I believe it would have been better
We would get to check what was going on both players' base at that point of time, whether Flash was going to get another expansion, was his upgrades almost done to 3-3, was he getting dropships, etc etc.
My point is that the results would have been much easier to come to a conclusion to, and with hard and concrete evidence at hand, both parties would be satisfied with the outcome.
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Canada5565 Posts
On January 23 2010 23:52 konadora wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2010 23:44 29 fps wrote:
if there had been a replay, would that have been better or worse? I believe it would have been better We would get to check what was going on both players' base at that point of time, whether Flash was going to get another expansion, was his upgrades almost done to 3-3, was he getting dropships, etc etc. My point is that the results would have been much easier to come to a conclusion to, and with hard and concrete evidence at hand, both parties would be satisfied with the outcome.
His upgrades were already 3-3, but yeah, replays are good lol
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United States12607 Posts
As far as I can tell, this is the meat of your argument for awarding the game to JD?
Either way, there will be talks of favoritism, which will further stain this already tainted MSL (as well as KeSPA, which was notorious for making rather brainless decisions). Hence, I believe this was the right move by the referees
Useful post for someone who wants a recap of the events, but I think your position is pretty conclusory :/
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here's my opinion:
i don't think there is a totally fair solution to the problem. although it would definitely be unfair to call for a rematch when jaedong had the advantage, i think it would be even more unfair to give flash a loss
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konadora
Singapore66357 Posts
On January 24 2010 00:02 Xxio wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2010 23:52 konadora wrote:On January 23 2010 23:44 29 fps wrote:
if there had been a replay, would that have been better or worse? I believe it would have been better We would get to check what was going on both players' base at that point of time, whether Flash was going to get another expansion, was his upgrades almost done to 3-3, was he getting dropships, etc etc. My point is that the results would have been much easier to come to a conclusion to, and with hard and concrete evidence at hand, both parties would be satisfied with the outcome. His upgrades were already 3-3, but yeah, replays are good lol
I couldn't really tell, it seemed like 2-2 in the VOD
On January 24 2010 00:23 JohnColtrane wrote:
here's my opinion:
i don't think there is a totally fair solution to the problem. although it would definitely be unfair to call for a rematch when jaedong had the advantage, i think it would be even more unfair to give flash a loss
But then again, giving a rematch would be even more unfair to Jaedong than Flash. Kinda unfortunate for this to happen.
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If I were jaedong in this situation, as soon as the game ended I would probably agree to a rematch if the kespa referees asked me. When the referees instead just announce a win, I would take it, probably a bit surprised, and then expect game 4. But then instead I have to wait an hour while KT just argues with the referees. After that hour, if kespa asked me if I wanted a regame, I would say no immediately. It's one thing to be about even in the game, it's another thing to waste an hour of my time.
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I'm sorry but this blog post reeks of JD fanboism.
The decision to award someone a free win in a final is NEVER a good decision. The game ends when GG is typed and only then, everything else is re-game. We've seen much much bigger comebacks.
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konadora
Singapore66357 Posts
On January 24 2010 00:27 fallingdream wrote:
I'm sorry but this blog post reeks of JD fanboism.
Sorry but I'm not a Jaedong fan.
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On January 24 2010 00:27 fallingdream wrote:
I'm sorry but this blog post reeks of JD fanboism.
The decision to award someone a free win in a final is NEVER a good decision. The game ends when GG is typed and only then, everything else is re-game. We've seen much much bigger comebacks.
No one said it was a good decision, but it was the right one. Forcing Jaedong to play a rematch would be way more unfair.
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GG MBC for making the players play in a virtual studio for no reason and not being able to prevent the blackout.
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On January 24 2010 00:25 konadora wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2010 00:02 Xxio wrote:On January 23 2010 23:52 konadora wrote:On January 23 2010 23:44 29 fps wrote:
if there had been a replay, would that have been better or worse? I believe it would have been better We would get to check what was going on both players' base at that point of time, whether Flash was going to get another expansion, was his upgrades almost done to 3-3, was he getting dropships, etc etc. My point is that the results would have been much easier to come to a conclusion to, and with hard and concrete evidence at hand, both parties would be satisfied with the outcome. His upgrades were already 3-3, but yeah, replays are good lol I couldn't really tell, it seemed like 2-2 in the VOD Show nested quote +On January 24 2010 00:23 JohnColtrane wrote:
here's my opinion:
i don't think there is a totally fair solution to the problem. although it would definitely be unfair to call for a rematch when jaedong had the advantage, i think it would be even more unfair to give flash a loss But then again, giving a rematch would be even more unfair to Jaedong than Flash. Kinda unfortunate for this to happen.
that's true, but the other option is giving the game to jaedong which imo is the most unfair solution of the two. its either nobody wins this set OR somebody is given the win
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konadora
Singapore66357 Posts
On January 24 2010 00:47 JohnColtrane wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2010 00:25 konadora wrote:On January 24 2010 00:02 Xxio wrote:On January 23 2010 23:52 konadora wrote:On January 23 2010 23:44 29 fps wrote:
if there had been a replay, would that have been better or worse? I believe it would have been better We would get to check what was going on both players' base at that point of time, whether Flash was going to get another expansion, was his upgrades almost done to 3-3, was he getting dropships, etc etc. My point is that the results would have been much easier to come to a conclusion to, and with hard and concrete evidence at hand, both parties would be satisfied with the outcome. His upgrades were already 3-3, but yeah, replays are good lol I couldn't really tell, it seemed like 2-2 in the VOD On January 24 2010 00:23 JohnColtrane wrote:
here's my opinion:
i don't think there is a totally fair solution to the problem. although it would definitely be unfair to call for a rematch when jaedong had the advantage, i think it would be even more unfair to give flash a loss But then again, giving a rematch would be even more unfair to Jaedong than Flash. Kinda unfortunate for this to happen. that's true, but the other option is giving the game to jaedong which imo is the most unfair solution of the two. its either nobody wins this set OR somebody is given the win
I was thinking about the possibility of ignoring the third set and adding on another map instead, then I realised that the map pool isn't big enough, players would have only practiced according to the given map order and etc.
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The best thing would be to forget this entire event, post-pone the finals one month and take it from there.
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EPT
