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On January 24 2010 00:27 fallingdream wrote:
I'm sorry but this blog post reeks of JD fanboism.
The decision to award someone a free win in a final is NEVER a good decision. The game ends when GG is typed and only then, everything else is re-game. We've seen much much bigger comebacks.
I'm sorry but this post reeks of Flash fanboism
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konadora
Singapore66202 Posts
@KristianJS:
They did inform Flash as they announced the decision. It was the coaching staff, team and his parents who decided to drag it on for an hour as the referees and other staff tried to convince them to get Flash to continue playing.
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On January 24 2010 03:31 justiceknight wrote:...i didnt get to see flash's dad rage T_T ...
Watching it live wouldn't have helped. They showed only commercials for 2 hours...
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On January 24 2010 10:13 konadora wrote:
@KristianJS:
They did inform Flash as they announced the decision. It was the coaching staff, team and his parents who decided to drag it on for an hour as the referees and other staff tried to convince them to get Flash to continue playing.
The point is that this shouldn't be allowed to drag on for more than 5 minutes at most. They should have been absolutely firm and said "either Flash accepts the ruling and plays on or he forfeits the series, end of discussion". Letting his freaking DAD and coaches yell at them for an hour to change it is so unprofessional it's laughable.
Can you imagine something like this happening at any other serious sport? Of course not, it'd be ludicrous. It's not their decision which ruined the finals, it was (besides their incompetence at allowing the power failure to even happen in the first place of course) the fact that once they made the decision they weren't even capable of enforcing it properly.
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you were raging so hard i didn't want to say anything
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On January 23 2010 23:31 konadora wrote:
As I began my one hour journey back home,
In Singapore? Did you cross the border or something to watch the MSL?
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
It seems you typed a lot of words Mr. Konadora but I fail to see how a bunch of KESPA retards analyzing a VOD instead of a replay (if rep was even possible but anyways..) and taking two hours to make a decision is wise.
That's just me though.
(Letting it get dragged out by coaching staffs parents etc. only proves how unsure of their decision they actually were and how much authority they lack. Idiots.)
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On January 25 2010 03:23 Rekrul wrote:
It seems you typed a lot of words Mr. Konadora but I fail to see how a bunch of KESPA retards analyzing a VOD instead of a replay (if rep was even possible but anyways..) and taking two hours to make a decision is wise.
That's just me though.
(Letting it get dragged out by coaching staffs parents etc. only proves how unsure of their decision they actually were and how much authority they lack. Idiots.)
They made the decision to give JD the win quite quickly. They took 2 hours to convince KT to let Flash play on.
When I first heard that JD was given the win I was a bit shocked, I thought they would regame because it was pretty close. Only afterwards when seeing the replay of the VOD did I see how far ahead he was, and I also agree it was the best decision they could have made. They had to screw over one of the players, and in this case JD was far enough ahead that giving him the win was the right decision
Its a pity such an epic final was ruined, but we did get 3 great games from it at least.
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rekrul basically summed up my thoughts
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KT made a fool of themselves by making it impossible for Flash to win the fourth set. In sports you always get shit like this. Always. And there is nothing you can do about it. When the ref says it's gonna be like this, only thing you can do is smile, vow to kill him later, and get on with it. That Flash's team was not professional enough to understand this, was what hurt this finals the most. Parents are a different cup of tea. And I agree with KristianJS that MBC/Kespa could've done their bit in forcing the issue, but you've got to keep in mind that they didn't want to have Flash and KT walk out. In my opinion, MBC/Kespa did the right thing, and it is the staff of KT that should ask themselves if it wouldn't have been smarter to act differently.
I do agree with Rekrul though that Kespa once again shows insecurity where there should be none. Also, that there are no decisive rules about this sort of thing really bites them in the ass. Unprofessional from MBC, from Kespa, and from KT. The only two who acted mature were the actual players, Flash and Jaedong.
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
On January 24 2010 00:27 Hamster1800 wrote:
If I were jaedong in this situation, as soon as the game ended I would probably agree to a rematch if the kespa referees asked me.
But you're not the one who made it to the MSL finals.
It doesn't matter what you or any of us would have done in Jaedong's shoes, and not just because we're not Jaedong.
Ask yourself how much determination, ambition, and competitive drive it takes to make it to the MSL finals in the first place. Ask yourself how much work you would have to invest to make it that far. Ask yourself what kinds of emotions you'd be feeling up there on the stage after the power outage, and the amount of adrenaline that would be running through your veins.
In addition, Jaedong had earned an advantage in that game. Not decisive, but an advantage nonetheless.
Ultimately, one could be the most generous and considerate person in the world outside of the game. And I'm sure a part of Jaedong feels guilty about it, too. But in that moment, no one who made it that far would turn away that win.
I expect Jaedong is going to catch a lot of flak for not volunteering a rematch, even though he deserves none of it.
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(Letting it get dragged out by coaching staffs parents etc. only proves how unsure of their decision they actually were and how much authority they lack. Idiots.)
So DQing Flash would have made things better? lol
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Let me start this off by saying I was cheering for Jaedong in the MSL finals, so nobody can accuse me of being a Flash fanboy... but even as a JD fan, that game 3 was complete crap.
I've heard a lot of people saying "yeah sure, Flash was behind but he could have come back... anything could have happened" ... I've even heard people say "Jaedong was way ahead he definitely won" ... and not just random people, but respected progamers have said that including NonY.
I did a detailed review of the VOD, to confirm that Jaedong won fair and square... and sadly the fact of the matter is Flash was ahead when the power went out. As I said I'm not basing that by any means on Flash fanboyism... I wanted JD to win. I actually spent about an hour and a half watching every aspect of the VOD and there is really no question about it... Flash won game 3.
I could be wrong... and I would appreciate it if a top level Zerg player, such as Day[9] could have a look at the VOD and correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.
Firstly, there are 3 main facts of life when it comes to late game TvZ as Zerg...
1) Firstly, since Terran is the most cost efficient race in the game, and Zerg is the least, the Zerg player needs at least 1 extra mining base than the Terran player to even be equal in terms of economy. Keep in mind, that it is important to emphasize "mining" base... having a hatchery next to a mineral field is all fine and well, but unless there are drones there mining it can't really be considered a mining base.
2) In order to have an effective Ultra/Ling with Defilers build the Zerg is going to want to be mining at least 4 gas geysers.
3) Since your hatcheries are the production buildings for both your worker and attack units, there are often times when you have to forgo building drones in order to keep an adequate sized army to fend off your opponent particularly if they are putting on a lot of pressure (which is a huge factor in this match).
Let's review a timeline of the game...
@ 8min 29sec in
Jaedong starts mining his 3rd gas at the 1 o'clock position.
@ 9min
Flash puts pressure on the 1 o'clock base and Jaedong takes his drones off gas.
@ 9min 25sec
Jaedong sends back his drones to the 1 o'clock, but puts them all on minerals.
@ 9min 45sec
The observer shows the 1 o'clock base and there are still no drones on gas.
@ 10min 24sec
The observer shows the 1 o'clock base and there is only 1 drone mining gas.
@ 10min 57sec
We finally see 3 drones on gas at the 1 o'clock base.
@ 13min 54sec
Flash takes out the 1 o'clock base.
@ 14min 31sec
The observer shows that despite the fact that Jaedong has had a hatchery at the 3 o'clock position for a while there is no drones mining, and no extractor built.
Note: During this entire time Jaedong only has a 3rd gas for about 3.5 - 4 minutes, and at this point is at 2 mining bases to Flash's 2 mining. Furthermore, if you look at the drone saturation at Jaedong's 2 mining bases he has 11 drones on minerals at his main, and 8-10 drones on minerals at his first expansion, whereas Flash's SCV saturation is huge.
@ 16min 20sec
Drones only begin to mine gas at the 8 o'clock base, however at 16min 35sec they get pulled off gas and are sent to attack Flash's units, and don't return to mining for at least another 10 seconds.
@ 18min 5sec
Flash's 3rd base is fully operations with at least 20 SCVs mining it
@ 18min 33sec
Jaedong's hatchery at 1 o'clock finishes being rebuilt.
@ 18min 43sec
Power goes out.
At this point Flash has 4 science vessels, 13 marines and 8 medics outside of Jaedong's bottom left expansion and at least 12-15 units at home (based on the unit movement on the minimap of units rallying from his cluster of barracks to his natural expo... watch Flash's base on the minimap at 18min 26sec onward)...and if you freaze frame the VOD the second before the power goes out you'll see that a group of units are just beginning to leave Flash's base.
Whereas Jaedong has 2 definlers, 4 scourge, 2 Ultralisks that have a combined total of about 35 HP... less than half a control group of lings and 1 reinforcing Ultralisk. Also keep in mind that throughout the course of the game Flash killed 22 Ultralisks, which is a total of 4400 worth of gas alone... and considering Jaedong was only up to 4 gas for the final 2 minutes of the game my guess is even if he got his 5th gas up at the top right... he would lose the bottom left base within a few minutes, and he'd be back down to 4. Either way he wasn't going to be pumping many more reinforcing Ultralisks any time soon.
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History needs to be bumped! The Original Thread was locked and I loved Konadora's explanation when it was written.
6 years ago... the Infamous "Power Outage" that gave Jaedong a 2-1 lead in the MSL finals against Flash. I remember it well. What a series... what a moment. First 2 games were epic... game 3 was leading to epic before the power outage and then Flash showed he had emotions in game 4 when Jaedong squashed him.
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EPT
