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This is going to be a really short blog post, but I was wondering how quickly Protoss needs to start teching to Stargate / Fleet Beacon / Mothership in order to have a vortex ready for a Brood lord + infestor push. Here's what I found - the timings I used start from a typical midgame scenario
Zerg
50 seconds infestation pit
100 seconds to start hive
100 seconds to greater spire
Corruptor morph to BL time = 34 seconds
Rush distance? give or take 30 seconds? (rush distance is relevant because the Zerg will be morphing his brood lords on his half of the map, and brood lords are slow)
Zerg total time to OP: 284 seconds (314 with rush distance factored in)
Protoss
60 seconds to build stargate
60 seconds to build fleet bacon
160 seconds to build mothership (you can fit 5 chronoboosts in, each one takes off 10 seconds of build time) = 110 seconds with constant CB
89 seconds to have vortex
Protoss total time to OP: 319 seconds
Protoss total time to OP without Stargate build time factored in: 259 seconds
What does all this mean? Well, put simply, if you want to have a mothership with energy for a vortex by the time the Zerg has brood lords on the field, you have to either:
1) Match his infestation pit timing with your stargate
or
2) Match his hive timing with your fleet beacon
If you do either of those and don't miss a beat on starting the mothership, chronoing it constantly, etc, then you'll have it out in time and with enough energy for a vortex.
Another thing to look at is when the Zerg starts his hive, that means he will have brood lords on the field in 234 seconds (about 4 minutes). So if you want to hit a timing attack before brood lords, that's your window to be killing him.
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This is good information. I think there are a lot more things you can do with this info, apart from the two you present. Some things that comes to my mind as a low diamond zerg:
3) (feign) agression at about the time the corruptors are being built, to force him to use the gas for defensive units, or at least morph the BLs in a defensive position, which will give you more time. Back off as soon as BLs are out, and retreat to vortex.
4) try to snipe infestors as he will be weak. He will not have gas to rebuild infestor and BLs.
5) Attack distant expansion just as BLs are morphing. Specially if you can spot where the corruptors are well in time. He will either have to start chasing you around (dance a bit all over the map until vortex done), or base-trade (build MS on the last base he will get to in a base-race, so you can come back and take out his army when you got vortex).
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it really is sad that PvZ has come to this...they even said it on ItG, PvZ has turned into broodlords vs mothership
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On June 27 2012 16:12 morlakaix wrote:
it really is sad that PvZ has come to this...they even said it on ItG, PvZ has turned into broodlords vs mothership
Just wait, soon TvZ will turn into broodlord+corruptor+infestor vs mass ravens.
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dude, this game is almost perfectly balanced,
people only bitch to vent, so this math isnt even worth that much time, ps the game has fine balance only pro's should complain
edit: i didnt finish what i ment to say
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On June 27 2012 16:48 StatikKhaos wrote:
dude, this game is almost perfectly balanced,
people only bitch to vent, so this math isnt even worth that much time, ps the game has fine balance only pro's should complain
edit: i didnt finish what i ment to say
Even if he is complaining about balance, he's giving incredibly useful timings for both Z and P players when you are transitioning out of the mid-game and into late-game, which is actually how I see his post.
Thank you for the timings, although I kinda knew the "start the fleet beacon when he starts his hive" thing.
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Telling people to attack before broods come out is an easy way to teach toss players to lose 
If you attack before broods come, and you lose your army, you might as well just leave ^^
Sorry for you toss users who play a broken race with a broken design...basically, any time you attack, its all in.. and It sucks for you 
Zerg builds are meant to have enough to hold off an all in before broods, with spines infestors and ling/corruptor ^^
Toss's better option is to use warp prism at this point to harass and deny bases and be where the zerg isnt. Also picking off the greater spire, which only good protoss do to me and scout properly. 8-10 zealots cannot be stopped if they attacking the GS before it dies....Ive also lost hives at this point in the game before, which puts you back quite a bit.
Then your whole "timing" thing goes out the window.
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On June 27 2012 16:48 StatikKhaos wrote:
dude, this game is almost perfectly balanced,
people only bitch to vent, so this math isnt even worth that much time, ps the game has fine balance only pro's should complain
edit: i didnt finish what i ment to say
lmao so ignorant
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Wow, I was really off in my timings here. Thank you very much :D
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On June 27 2012 18:27 Th1rdEye wrote:
Toss's better option is to use warp prism at this point to harass and deny bases and be where the zerg isnt. Also picking off the greater spire, which only good protoss do to me and scout properly. 8-10 zealots cannot be stopped if they attacking the GS before it dies....Ive also lost hives at this point in the game before, which puts you back quite a bit.
If the zerg is any good he wont let you kill the GS with warp prism. It's incredibly dumb to base you're builds assuming your enemy will make a major mistake.
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I dont think that's a good rule of thumb. I just get my stargate as soon as i feel like my 3rd is secure and the fleet beacon as soon as my stargate finishes. 2 Vortexes are 2x better than 1 Vortex.
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Simple but important stuff, thanks a lot!
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Really cool man, good shit to know.
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On June 27 2012 20:37 ErAsc2 wrote:
I dont think that's a good rule of thumb. I just get my stargate as soon as i feel like my 3rd is secure and the fleet beacon as soon as my stargate finishes. 2 Vortexes are 2x better than 1 Vortex.
That sounds like excellent advice / timing to me.
Also, I think there's a little confusion about this blog post - it's not meant to have advice, or tell anyone to do anything. It's just math :p
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EPT
