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Here is my definate list of cheese:
4-6 pool. Anything above 7 pool is NOT cheese.
PROXY builds involving your first two production buildings. Such as building a rax to block in your main, then a quick proxy rax near their base.. Any Proxying past 3rd gateway/barracks is NOT cheese.
Manner Pylons and gas steals, although that is so common nowadays you really gotta understand how to anticipate it and defend it. Its borderline cheese, but I wouldnt consider it really cheese unless combined with the above two.
I think thats it honestly... Everything else is easily defendable if you scout it properly, or respond properly.. DT rush?? If you lose to that, you didnt scout properly.
ALL-IN's are NOT cheese unless requiring the above, Proxying or 4pools. All-in's without those two, are VERY harmful if held off and pretty much doom the player, which is why its called an All-in. If it isnt a proxy or 4pool, You should of scouted it and countered appropriately (any protoss or terran who bitchs about zergling all-ins needs to scout more.)
Now can we all stop bitching about cheese in EVERY game?? If its not a proxy or 4-pool, its likely that you just suck at adapting to anything other than "standard" builds.
Remember people, You cant win SOLELY based on copying the latest Jaedong/Flash/Bisu builds and letting "macro" take over.. At high level play, you need GAME SMARTS; That is the key to being good at Strategy games, Not this bullshit APM or blaming everything on cheese when you lose.
/rant
 
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And yes, this includes things such as 3-gate proxy DTing, and etc.. Because it follows the simple principle of using your first or 2nd gate as a Proxy..
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Cheese is something that makes your opponent lose in an embarassing manner and whine about it.
Hence why it's called cheese. Because it goes with the whine.
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Something you eat with wine
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You can add to the list:
Proxy robo reaver
4 probe harass with proxy gateway forge and in-your-base cannons PvT
Proxy gate, hidden tech DT
These are all cheese because they're effective, gay, easy things with little or no risk to the cheeser.
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I disagree with that Sadist, If thats the case, is Mass scouts considered cheese?? How about Using queens?
The Oldschool meaning of Cheese is short for Cheesy, as in something that is not really balanced/very hard to defeat, yet easy for the other opponent to do.. It has nothing to do with embarassing your opponent, unless your opponent is someone who gets frustrated easily and bitches about it. Its purely based on something that is just so out of whack in the balance (or cheesy) that its not really fair, and gives a significant advantage without having to do much (like a 4pool or early proxy)..
Every realistic and logical mention of Cheese happens with games that end within the first 10 minutes.. If its purely based on an Embarassing/whining standpoint, then EVERYTHING could be considered cheese.. Not paying attention to your dropship while you send it across a field of dragoons would be embarassing, hence cheese?? I dont think so.
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No such thing as cheese. There's strategy that makes you win or lose, period.
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On August 16 2009 21:05 Sadistx wrote:
No such thing as cheese. There's strategy that makes you win or lose, period.
Except some of those strategies make it so disgustingly easy for one player to win and so absurdly difficult for the cheesee to fend off, kind of a really lame thing to do IMO which removes all the fun from the game regardless of whether you're the one cheesing or being cheesed.
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On August 16 2009 21:10 jello_biafra wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2009 21:05 Sadistx wrote:
No such thing as cheese. There's strategy that makes you win or lose, period. Except some of those strategies make it so disgustingly easy for one player to win and so absurdly difficult for the cheesee to fend off
LOL this is so not true
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On August 16 2009 21:10 jello_biafra wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2009 21:05 Sadistx wrote:
No such thing as cheese. There's strategy that makes you win or lose, period. Except some of those strategies make it so disgustingly easy for one player to win and so absurdly difficult for the cheesee to fend off, kind of a really lame thing to do IMO which removes all the fun from the game regardless of whether you're the one cheesing or being cheesed.
Then its a problem of game design.
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On August 16 2009 21:28 Shauni wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2009 21:10 jello_biafra wrote:On August 16 2009 21:05 Sadistx wrote:
No such thing as cheese. There's strategy that makes you win or lose, period. Except some of those strategies make it so disgustingly easy for one player to win and so absurdly difficult for the cheesee to fend off LOL this is so not true
Sure it's not, you try fending off some of the ridiculous shit korean toss players do to a terran on destination at B ranks and above.
On August 16 2009 21:53 Sadistx wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2009 21:10 jello_biafra wrote:On August 16 2009 21:05 Sadistx wrote:
No such thing as cheese. There's strategy that makes you win or lose, period. Except some of those strategies make it so disgustingly easy for one player to win and so absurdly difficult for the cheesee to fend off, kind of a really lame thing to do IMO which removes all the fun from the game regardless of whether you're the one cheesing or being cheesed. Then its a problem of game design.
More to do with map design I think.
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I don't have to since I'm not a terran player. If you can't fend it off vs same ranked players odds are you wouldn't beat them 'normally' either.
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Shauni, I disagree.
If we played a game, and I 4pooled you and beat you (this is assuming you wern't expecting it obviously and went FE standard play).. Would that mean I could beat you normally also? So that means if I just 4pool everygame, chances are I will beat many people esp the first time I play them and they are unsuspecting of it, does that mean I am better than them??
And even if our ranks are different.. anyone above C- can micro 10 zerglings vs 13-14 probes.. If they cant, they are just plain horrible.
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On August 16 2009 22:33 Shauni wrote:
I don't have to since I'm not a terran player. If you can't fend it off vs same ranked players odds are you wouldn't beat them 'normally' either.
Are you fucking kidding me? Being a toss player has clearly clouded your vision. Like 75% at least of the TvPs I lose are due to ridiculous cheese, if the toss opens standard then I win about 75% of the time. Do you not understand the absurd amount of hassle that an early probe in your base, threatening your gas, delaying your rax, harassing the SCVs making things, building a pylon in your wall so you can't complete it and the zealot from the 8 gate that was made at your bridges can run right in? All the toss has to do is micro that probe around a bit and rally their zealots in, terran has to scramble to save his gas, which in turn delays his rax, struggle to just PUT THE RAX DOWN further delaying it, when your marine finally does pop out often you will have ~4 probes and 1 zealot in your base with 1 more zealot almost arriving, at this point you have to micro like your fucking life depends on it just to survive THE FIRST ZEALOT, then of course the toss already has there cyb almost complete and the goons will be coming while your still desperately trying to keep your 1-2 marines alive from the obscenely strong zealots fucking them up. If you seriously think such things are just as difficult for the toss then you don't have a clue what you're talking about. These builds are the newbiest no skill requiring things in BW.
And no one knows this better than iG.Randy, whoever the hell he is.
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glad to know you have a book that defines cheese.
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On August 16 2009 22:43 jello_biafra wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2009 22:33 Shauni wrote:
I don't have to since I'm not a terran player. If you can't fend it off vs same ranked players odds are you wouldn't beat them 'normally' either. Are you fucking kidding me? Being a toss player has clearly clouded your vision. Like 75% at least of the TvPs I lose are due to ridiculous cheese, if the toss opens standard then I win about 75% of the time. Do you not understand the absurd amount of hassle that an early probe in your base, threatening your gas, delaying your rax, harassing the SCVs making things, building a pylon in your wall so you can't complete it and the zealot from the 8 gate that was made at your bridges can run right in? All the toss has to do is micro that probe around a bit and rally their zealots in, terran has to scramble to save his gas, which in turn delays his rax, struggle to just PUT THE RAX DOWN further delaying it, when your marine finally does pop out often you will have ~4 probes and 1 zealot in your base with 1 more zealot almost arriving, at this point you have to micro like your fucking life depends on it just to survive THE FIRST ZEALOT, then of course the toss already has there cyb almost complete and the goons will be coming while your still desperately trying to keep your 1-2 marines alive from the obscenely strong zealots fucking them up. If you seriously think such things are just as difficult for the toss then you don't have a clue what you're talking about. These builds are the newbiest no skill requiring things in BW. And no one knows this better than iG.Randy, whoever the hell he is.
If you're a high ranked player you should have learned to deal with it in the best way possible. It's the same for protoss players. If you haven't learned to cut an scv to get your rax down (the probe will never come earlier than that if you proxy gate), scout your entire main after supply, and be able to complete your wall even if he pylons it (it's possible on both positions) you definately deserve to lose to things like that. You're not a complete B player if you lose 75% of the time against 'ridiculous cheese'.
Yes, it's more difficult for the toss especially on higher levels because you have to come back from a huge disadvantage every game if you still do that vs B+ korean terrans.
Also, to the post above. Cheese might make the game rely more on luck, but you can judge a players skill from a 5 pool as much as from a 3 hatch spire into 5 hatch hydra build. There is a huge difference between a top foreigner's 5pool and a progamers 5pool. Micro isn't just anything you can perfect if you're a C- player and above. That's totally bullshit.
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On August 16 2009 20:49 Skyze wrote:
Here is my definate list of cheese:
4-6 pool. Anything above 7 pool is NOT cheese.
PROXY builds involving your first two production buildings. Such as building a rax to block in your main, then a quick proxy rax near their base.. Any Proxying past 3rd gateway/barracks is NOT cheese.
Manner Pylons and gas steals, although that is so common nowadays you really gotta understand how to anticipate it and defend it. Its borderline cheese, but I wouldnt consider it really cheese unless combined with the above two.
I think thats it honestly... Everything else is easily defendable if you scout it properly, or respond properly.. DT rush?? If you lose to that, you didnt scout properly.
ALL-IN's are NOT cheese unless requiring the above, Proxying or 4pools. All-in's without those two, are VERY harmful if held off and pretty much doom the player, which is why its called an All-in. If it isnt a proxy or 4pool, You should of scouted it and countered appropriately (any protoss or terran who bitchs about zergling all-ins needs to scout more.)
Now can we all stop bitching about cheese in EVERY game?? If its not a proxy or 4-pool, its likely that you just suck at adapting to anything other than "standard" builds.
Remember people, You cant win SOLELY based on copying the latest Jaedong/Flash/Bisu builds and letting "macro" take over.. At high level play, you need GAME SMARTS; That is the key to being good at Strategy games, Not this bullshit APM or blaming everything on cheese when you lose.
/rant
are you kidding me? you know how easy it is for toss to proxy that. you know how easy it is for toss to block their ramp on a 4 person map thus you can't scout it. If terrans played 100% safe their expo would be crazy late and toss could just go 3 expand after blocking the first scout
also you need to stop crying about people bitching about cheese. its going to happen every time something lame happens. get over it.
cheese sometimes also results in boring matches. boxer vs yellow bunker rush 3 times, god that was fucken boring.
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On August 16 2009 23:02 Shauni wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2009 22:43 jello_biafra wrote:On August 16 2009 22:33 Shauni wrote:
I don't have to since I'm not a terran player. If you can't fend it off vs same ranked players odds are you wouldn't beat them 'normally' either. Are you fucking kidding me? Being a toss player has clearly clouded your vision. Like 75% at least of the TvPs I lose are due to ridiculous cheese, if the toss opens standard then I win about 75% of the time. Do you not understand the absurd amount of hassle that an early probe in your base, threatening your gas, delaying your rax, harassing the SCVs making things, building a pylon in your wall so you can't complete it and the zealot from the 8 gate that was made at your bridges can run right in? All the toss has to do is micro that probe around a bit and rally their zealots in, terran has to scramble to save his gas, which in turn delays his rax, struggle to just PUT THE RAX DOWN further delaying it, when your marine finally does pop out often you will have ~4 probes and 1 zealot in your base with 1 more zealot almost arriving, at this point you have to micro like your fucking life depends on it just to survive THE FIRST ZEALOT, then of course the toss already has there cyb almost complete and the goons will be coming while your still desperately trying to keep your 1-2 marines alive from the obscenely strong zealots fucking them up. If you seriously think such things are just as difficult for the toss then you don't have a clue what you're talking about. These builds are the newbiest no skill requiring things in BW. And no one knows this better than iG.Randy, whoever the hell he is. If you're a high ranked player you should have learned to deal with it in the best way possible. It's the same for protoss players. If you haven't learned to cut an scv to get your rax down (the probe will never come earlier than that if you proxy gate), scout your entire main after supply, and be able to complete your wall even if he pylons it (it's possible on both positions) you definately deserve to lose to things like that. You're not a complete B player if you lose 75% of the time against 'ridiculous cheese'. Yes, it's more difficult for the toss especially on higher levels because you have to come back from a huge disadvantage every game if you still do that vs B+ korean terrans. Also, to the post above. Cheese might make the game rely more on luck, but you can judge a players skill from a 5 pool as much as from a 3 hatch spire into 5 hatch hydra build. There is a huge difference between a top foreigner's 5pool and a progamers 5pool. Micro isn't just anything you can perfect if you're a C- player and above. That's totally bullshit.
Sure it's possible to keep broadly your standard build and mitigate the damage by getting things down faster but this hinders you against someone who's playing standard and by no means guarantees you will stop the cheese, if someone is intent on gaying you up with their probe then it's still really hard to not let that happen, and if they're doing the korean style 7 pylon 8 gate at your bridges and sending down 3 more probes then you're still going to have a lot of trouble. Lately I've just been saying fuck it and opening with 2 rax and that seems to do the trick but if you're against standard play then you're boned.
And if you can't get away with the ridiculous cheese against B+ korean terrans then you have no hope in hell of beating them with standard play 
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cheese is awesome. If you can't handle cheese go play a game that doesn't take skill.
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On August 16 2009 23:19 stroggos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2009 21:10 jello_biafra wrote:On August 16 2009 21:05 Sadistx wrote:
No such thing as cheese. There's strategy that makes you win or lose, period. Except some of those strategies make it so disgustingly easy for one player to win and so absurdly difficult for the cheesee to fend off, kind of a really lame thing to do IMO which removes all the fun from the game regardless of whether you're the one cheesing or being cheesed. wrong.
PvT on Destination right now? I'll prove this shit to you...
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On August 16 2009 23:21 jello_biafra wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2009 23:19 stroggos wrote:On August 16 2009 21:10 jello_biafra wrote:On August 16 2009 21:05 Sadistx wrote:
No such thing as cheese. There's strategy that makes you win or lose, period. Except some of those strategies make it so disgustingly easy for one player to win and so absurdly difficult for the cheesee to fend off, kind of a really lame thing to do IMO which removes all the fun from the game regardless of whether you're the one cheesing or being cheesed. wrong. PvT on Destination right now? I'll prove this shit to you...
i play zerg, and it wouldn't prove anything.
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Well if you haven't experienced what I'm talking about why the hell are you disputing it? It would prove that I can own you hard with the minimum of effort....?
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because your wrong? If cheese was so ridiculously advantageous we would see progamers cheesing 95% of the time pvt desti wouldn't we?
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On August 16 2009 23:29 stroggos wrote:
because your wrong? If cheese was so ridiculously advantageous we would see progamers cheesing 95% of the time pvt desti wouldn't we?
We do see it quite often and I assume the reason we don't see it more is because some pros have a little self respect. Also the fact that they want to display more entertaining games.
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On August 16 2009 23:33 jello_biafra wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2009 23:29 stroggos wrote:
because your wrong? If cheese was so ridiculously advantageous we would see progamers cheesing 95% of the time pvt desti wouldn't we? We do see it quite often and I assume the reason we don't see it more is because some pros have a little self respect. Also the fact that they want to display more entertaining games.
self respect? wtf rofl.
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On August 16 2009 23:37 stroggos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2009 23:33 jello_biafra wrote:On August 16 2009 23:29 stroggos wrote:
because your wrong? If cheese was so ridiculously advantageous we would see progamers cheesing 95% of the time pvt desti wouldn't we? We do see it quite often and I assume the reason we don't see it more is because some pros have a little self respect. Also the fact that they want to display more entertaining games. self respect? wtf rofl.
Well I like to avoid gaying it up to max, not sure I could live with myself if I did that every game.
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Exactly. If you do that everygame as a pro, you would be bashed to hell. Not to mention obviously if you are becoming known as a "cheese" player, its easier to defend against.. but if its just some random guy you meet on iccup, have no idea he does that, it will be VERY difficult to stop a 4pool or early proxy.
I dont see why you guys find this so hard to understand.. if Bisu did proxy PvT everygame, he would probably win his first 10+ games in a row, but pretty soon every terran he faced would just start going super early rax to defend against it. Not to mention people would just say "omg bisu sucks he can only proxy" and it'd be bad for his reputation. Thats why its not done in pro leagues that often, but it is STILL done often enough that it works (like recently Bisu vs Fantasy, his proxy on Outsider really gave him that game, even tho the proxy itself didnt finish it, it was easy to win after that huge advantage)
I still think if you are playing on iccup as a zerg player, doing 4pool everygame, if you can micro decently you could probably get to at least B+ easily just based on the fact you will be beating people unsuspecting of it, and not rematching them. Does that make you a B+ player?? No.
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Haha, biafra... I'm quite sure they value winning way more than 'self respect' or entertaining games in their important leagues. Cheese is quite common on 2 player maps even on progamer levels yes, the maps (like destination) are slightly advantageous to Protoss in PvT early game and to Terran in lategame. Just because you value winning in lategame more than early game doesn't mean you're more 'skilled' than the 'cheese' players you lose to. Cutting half an scv is a minimal disadvantage against a Protoss playing normal even for progamers, there is no real excuse not to do it on two player maps where this is common.
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4 pool is owned by 2 gate pressure.  I assure this!
But the hell, almost nobody goes 2 gates anymore so 2 gate is considered cheese by some D/D+ zergs! LOL at the irony...
Man, I think cheese is really good with pizza and spaghetti, then if you can't find both you can just spread melted cheese on your toast.
+ Show Spoiler +
Nyom Nyom Nyom!
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the key in professional level is not becoming predictable, thats why no pro cheeses 100% of the time, then you spend all that time practicing on cheese and it can be countered when expecting it..
but on iccup meeting a random player, when 70% go standard (which is why its called STANDARD) then someone does some really gay cheese like 4pool, its easy to take a game off someone. Hence why its called cheese.
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On August 16 2009 23:55 Shauni wrote:
Haha, biafra... I'm quite sure they value winning way more than 'self respect' or entertaining games in their important leagues. Cheese is quite common on 2 player maps even on progamer levels yes, the maps (like destination) are slightly advantageous to Protoss in PvT early game and to Terran in lategame. Just because you value winning in lategame more than early game doesn't mean you're more 'skilled' than the 'cheese' players you lose to. Cutting half an scv is a minimal disadvantage against a Protoss playing normal even for progamers, there is no real excuse not to do it on two player maps where this is common.
The first part of your post is countering stroggos' point not mine ? o_O I said it did happen often and provided reasons why it doesn't happen 100% of the time. You're gonna have to cut more than half an SCV to get your rax down in time before a 6 probe scout is sitting in the place you want your rax to be, which is inevitably gonna hurt you against a raging macro toss. And these same cheese players that I lose to early game are for the most part tamed in the mid game when they go standard play -_-
And Destination is more than slighly advantageous for PvT early game and TvP lategame which is why I don't cheese my half of the map up with a million turrets and mines and a huge line of tanks and simply wait the toss out, I play like a man and try and take them down midgame.
And this thread is someone asking how to counter something that's easy for their opponent to do and hard for them to play against if ever I've seen one.
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And that's what I don't like about your posts. You say you play like a man and take them down midgame? That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. You seem live under some kind of illusion that it matters more HOW you win rather than the actual feat of winning... Nobody thinks you're less of a man if you camp it up or BBS, it simply DOESN'T MATTER. You play for your own sake (especially on iccup) and whatever you do to win or to improve is your choice only.
If you 6 scout and run directly to the terran's base to block his wall rax, how the hell are you supposed to proxy gate? Send a probe out just to block the rax in case he walls? Do you know how much that sets you behind? I told you that the reaction to the 7 pylon 7 gate build (if you want to wall) is to cut half an scv to get your rax up exactly when he's at your choke, I wasn't talking about anything else.
A lot of good terrans doesn't even wall in on destination, so if you absolutely don't want any probe to delay your rax, place it by your CC instead.
And what has that thread to do with this? I was simply stating that I had problems against that type of play, it's my weakness and my fault I lose to it. Don't you see the absurdity of blaming your opponent for your own weakness?
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I'm not BLAMING my opponents I'm just saying that when the game plays out like that it's much much more demanding for the cheesee than for the cheeser.
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Everyone defines cheese differently so I don't even bother with the word.
What I find funny is when people who do risky strategies against "better" players are called stupid and lack skills. Since the stupid thing to do would have been to play into the opponent's comfort zone.
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United States47024 Posts
On August 16 2009 22:39 Skyze wrote:
And even if our ranks are different.. anyone above C- can micro 10 zerglings vs 13-14 probes.. If they cant, they are just plain horrible.
How do you end up with 10 zerglings when you 4-pool?
On August 16 2009 23:33 jello_biafra wrote:
We do see it quite often and I assume the reason we don't see it more is because some pros have a little self respect. Also the fact that they want to display more entertaining games.
Um, with as much money as there is on the line, if cheesing through a final was viable, I'm sure they'd do it. I'm pretty sure there's not as much stigma in Korea against cheesing as there is in the foreign community. Notice how in all the interviews, the term translates to "strategic play"? That doesn't seem to carry a negative connotation at all.
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On August 17 2009 00:04 jello_biafra wrote:
And Destination is more than slighly advantageous for PvT early game and TvP lategame which is why I don't cheese my half of the map up with a million turrets and mines and a huge line of tanks and simply wait the toss out, I play like a man and try and take them down midgame.
This is totally absurd...
If everyone in starcraft played with total disregard for the early game and late game, you would have only midgame timing pushes; just because that's the only way you know how to play doesn't mean its the only "legitimate" strategy (what the hell does "like a man" mean? if I scv rush because I have the retarded balls to assume that my 4 scvs will murder your 7 probes, does that make the strategy more manly?). The game's variations add meaningful depth, and if you choose to ignore them its your beef.
Sadistx is right...Things people complain about as "cheese" are just strategies that exploit the current metagame and static play.
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A lengthy yawn and slow measured clapping for another aimless discussion about cheese.
Cheese in StarCraft is basically anything risky with a high reward. That's the only consistent definition I think we'll ever have. When JulyZerg 5pools, everyone is still going to call it cheese, no matter how good July's metagame and predicting of its success is. When someone does a new, but well thought out build, everyone is going to call it cute.
There's no point in trying to list all the builds that are cheese, because half the readers on this forum don't understand what is actually risky, and what has reasonable and healthy transitions to the mid-game.
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On August 16 2009 23:06 StorrZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2009 20:49 Skyze wrote:
Here is my definate list of cheese:
4-6 pool. Anything above 7 pool is NOT cheese.
PROXY builds involving your first two production buildings. Such as building a rax to block in your main, then a quick proxy rax near their base.. Any Proxying past 3rd gateway/barracks is NOT cheese.
Manner Pylons and gas steals, although that is so common nowadays you really gotta understand how to anticipate it and defend it. Its borderline cheese, but I wouldnt consider it really cheese unless combined with the above two.
I think thats it honestly... Everything else is easily defendable if you scout it properly, or respond properly.. DT rush?? If you lose to that, you didnt scout properly.
ALL-IN's are NOT cheese unless requiring the above, Proxying or 4pools. All-in's without those two, are VERY harmful if held off and pretty much doom the player, which is why its called an All-in. If it isnt a proxy or 4pool, You should of scouted it and countered appropriately (any protoss or terran who bitchs about zergling all-ins needs to scout more.)
Now can we all stop bitching about cheese in EVERY game?? If its not a proxy or 4-pool, its likely that you just suck at adapting to anything other than "standard" builds.
Remember people, You cant win SOLELY based on copying the latest Jaedong/Flash/Bisu builds and letting "macro" take over.. At high level play, you need GAME SMARTS; That is the key to being good at Strategy games, Not this bullshit APM or blaming everything on cheese when you lose.
/rant are you kidding me? you know how easy it is for toss to proxy that. you know how easy it is for toss to block their ramp on a 4 person map thus you can't scout it. If terrans played 100% safe their expo would be crazy late and toss could just go 3 expand after blocking the first scout also you need to stop crying about people bitching about cheese. its going to happen every time something lame happens. get over it. cheese sometimes also results in boring matches. boxer vs yellow bunker rush 3 times, god that was fucken boring.
i loved that, one of my favorite moments in pro gaming.
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I played an iccup game last season @ D+ level where I did overpool ZvP and the protoss (who 12 nex'd) called it cheese, seriously lol.
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On August 16 2009 20:54 Sadistx wrote:
Cheese is something that makes your opponent lose in an embarassing manner and whine about it.
Hence why it's called cheese. Because it goes with the whine.
Haha nice!
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I think anything thats not FE is cheese.
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On August 16 2009 23:19 stroggos wrote:
cheese is awesome. If you can't handle cheese go play a game that doesn't take skill.
OH THE IRONY!!!
-_-
On August 16 2009 23:37 stroggos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2009 23:33 jello_biafra wrote:On August 16 2009 23:29 stroggos wrote:
because your wrong? If cheese was so ridiculously advantageous we would see progamers cheesing 95% of the time pvt desti wouldn't we? We do see it quite often and I assume the reason we don't see it more is because some pros have a little self respect. Also the fact that they want to display more entertaining games. self respect? wtf rofl.
Remember when Flash cheesed Bisu out of the MSL/OSL and there was some controversy about it? Also when Boxer 3x bunker rushed YellOw and the fall-out that ensued after that? Yea, rofl.
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