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saritenite
Singapore1680 Posts
We know that 12 hatch is an economic build and very popular with progamers, but I watched the finals and Jaedong lost all three of his games. In two of them he 12 hatched. So I considered using a safer build against T on destination, namely 9 pool speed. I had a zerg use it against me to great effect with a transition into mutas. So far it has nabbed me two easy wins at D level. My question is, is 9 pool speed cheese in your opinion?   | ||
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hyst.eric.al
United States2332 Posts
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anderoo
Canada1876 Posts
it's a pretty normal zerg strategy to 9 pool | ||
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Saracen
United States5139 Posts
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OreoBoi
Canada1639 Posts
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d(O.o)a
Canada5066 Posts
Not at all On August 09 2009 03:39 Saracen wrote: No, it's not cheese. But what are you going to do with your speedlings when the Terran is walled off? deny scouting and use lings as a means to keep the terran at home for a bit. On August 09 2009 03:39 OreoBoi wrote: Yes imo it is cheese, you are trying to end the game early by trading economy for aggresion. Don't be discouraged because it is cheese though, if you play to win, do any build you want. However if you want to improve, playing standard trains macro/micro while 9 pool speed only trains micro. What are you talking about? 9pool speed is not intended to end the game early if the chance is there you can pound on the wall for a bit and potentially get in to do some damage but you can also simply use the lings to deny scouting and take map control. | ||
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saritenite
Singapore1680 Posts
On August 09 2009 03:39 Saracen wrote: No, it's not cheese. But what are you going to do with your speedlings when the Terran is walled off? Deny his expo, keep drones on gas, transition into lurkers after 2nd hatch, contain if he meched, push in if he MnM'd I found that D level terrans have problems with lurkers against their MnM. 9 Pool speed against a meching terran hinges on two things. 1) Whether he walled properly ( some don't ) 2) How many marines he got If he got enough marines to fend my lings off, I pull back and run around in his nat. If he doesn't, run in and snipe SCVs doing buildings > SCVs mining. Tech is more important than economic damage, at that point. | ||
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konadora
Singapore66357 Posts
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Shauni
4077 Posts
On August 09 2009 03:39 OreoBoi wrote: Yes imo it is cheese, you are trying to end the game early by trading economy for aggresion. Early game aggression isn't cheese at all... Cheese is a shitty term that doesn't really explain strategies or the thought behind them very well. Most of the 'cheeses' on high level play have a plan B to fall back on. The only thing significant for early game aggression is that it relies on good micro rather than multitasking or overall management. But yeah, if you 9pool speed and he wallin successfully, it kind of sucks (that's why it's not very common in ZvT). Sure, you'll delay his 1 rax FE and make him a bit more cautious with teching, but even so, he'll stay ahead in the game. | ||
Harem
United States11393 Posts
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saritenite
Singapore1680 Posts
On August 09 2009 04:02 Harem wrote: I did this to a terran yesterday but only because I thought he was Protoss and not Terran. -_- Did you win? | ||
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geegee1
United States618 Posts
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Harem
United States11393 Posts
Ya. He had a bad wall. Then, he lost his first few marines, scv making fac, a bunch more scvs, another marine and then he left. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
On August 09 2009 03:39 OreoBoi wrote: Yes imo it is cheese, you are trying to end the game early by trading economy for aggresion. Don't be discouraged because it is cheese though, if you play to win, do any build you want. However if you want to improve, playing standard trains macro/micro while 9 pool speed only trains micro. I don't think cheese =/= all-in, but maybe that's just me That's why one of Savior's favourite builds during his height was 9pool into 3hatch. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On August 09 2009 03:39 OreoBoi wrote: Yes imo it is cheese, you are trying to end the game early by trading economy for aggresion. Don't be discouraged because it is cheese though, if you play to win, do any build you want. However if you want to improve, playing standard trains macro/micro while 9 pool speed only trains micro. I don't think cheese =/= all-in, but maybe that's just me 12 pool trades economy for aggression over 12hatch. Does that make it cheese? | ||
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Harem
United States11393 Posts
On August 09 2009 04:05 geegee1 wrote: 9 pool makes u the agreesive player by the start it also negates 8 rax use but if the terran go for a standard build they would have 1-2 marines ready to fight the lings 9 pool isnt even cheese because it doesnt put u behind even though 12 hatch puts u eco ahead slightly 9pool doesn't really negate 8rax gas builds at all. -_- | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
On August 09 2009 04:09 Jibba wrote: 12 pool trades economy for aggression over 12hatch. Does that make it cheese? 12hatch 11pool 13hatch is cheese because it trades economy for aggression over 12hatch 14hatch 13pool IMO. | ||
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7mk
Germany10157 Posts
On August 09 2009 04:12 koreasilver wrote: 12hatch 11pool 13hatch is cheese because it trades economy for aggression over 12hatch 14hatch 13pool IMO. hehe ^^ I think everyone can stop bashing him though since he edited his post | ||
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d(O.o)a
Canada5066 Posts
On August 09 2009 04:10 Harem wrote: 9pool doesn't really negate 8rax gas builds at all. -_- he means 8rax bunker rush. | ||
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