So basically i got a circumcision last month(not for aesthetic reasons).
The hospital gave me an outline on how much i'd be paying before i agreed to the operation and they told me it would amount to 1500 dollars TOTAL(includes everything).
I don't have insurance because my mom has too many health difficulties and we aren't qualified for a family plan. So i agreed to this operation agreeing that i'd pay that exact amount.
The next day i get my operation and alls well until i get a bill 3 weeks after the operation for a pathology gross IV or some weird name where they send a sample of my foreskin or something to verify i had a circumcision(wtf?). The bill was for 200 dollars and after a long argument on the phone they told me it was required by law so i hesitantly agreed.
Then i got another bill for 100 dollars for the actual lab fee that they couldn't really explain to me but just gave me the same "its required by law bullshit". I directly asked if this was the very last bill and they said yes.
A month after, i come home to a 700 dollar fee for anesthesia. I already paid this fee within the 1500 dollars i paid initially. I even have the receipt for it(it was 400 dollars). I call the hospital and they tell me they have nothing to do with this and its a completely different company.
What i don't understand is i was knocked out for 1.5 hours and i'm charged 1100 dollars for general anesthesia or a shot to the crotch?( i don't know what they did to me, i was put asleep)
Ironically this is the FIRST time i opted for an american doctor rather than a korean doctor because i wanted it done right(I have nothing against korean doctors but they sometimes try to rip you off or do a messy job).
Are they allowed to charge me all these hidden fees? I'm not rich at all. if i end up paying the 700 dollar fee then i paid 2500 dollars for a 10 minute procedure? What should i do -_-? This is really pissing me off.
On July 31 2009 10:28 randomKo_Orean wrote: the joy of US healthecare
The real joy will be when it's fully nationalized and you can't even get this operation even if you are able to pay out of pocket.
Privatize that shit.
Edit: and to actually respond to the thread, I'd definitely seek out some sort of legal advice. I'm sure there are some sketchy lawyers who won't charge a consultation fee. Could you perhaps even file some sort of small claims thing? If you have documentation stating the all-inclusive price should be $1.5k then obviously you shouldn't have to pay more than that. It's such bullshit that there is so much government red tape and hoops for both you and the health-care industry to jump through that ends up manifesting itself in ways like this.
i have a document saying that i hereby agree to pay 1500 dollars and that the 1500 dollars is an ESTIMATE. It also says i'm responsible for paying any additional co-payments,deductibles, co-insurance, and items not covered by my insurance.
But it ALSO says that they are required to declare all remaining installments due and payable within TEN days. The "required by law" ones were within 10 days so i couldn't argue against that but what the flying f***? this 700 dollar bill is a month later. If i add this 700 dollar bill then its 2500 dollars total for the operation.
1500 is not a very accurate estimation for 2500. Thats a whole freaking 1k more. I'm paying this out of my own pocket. I was hoping to go on a vacation this summer but i cancelled it because of this operation and because of my doctor's urgency that i get this operation done as soon as possible.
On July 31 2009 10:28 randomKo_Orean wrote: the joy of US healthecare
The real joy will be when it's fully nationalized and you can't even get this operation even if you are able to pay out of pocket.
Privatize that shit.
Edit: and to actually respond to the thread, I'd definitely seek out some sort of legal advice. I'm sure there are some sketchy lawyers who won't charge a consultation fee. Could you perhaps even file some sort of small claims thing? If you have documentation stating the all-inclusive price should be $1.5k then obviously you shouldn't have to pay more than that. It's such bullshit that there is so much government red tape and hoops for both you and the health-care industry to jump through that ends up manifesting itself in ways like this.
The only operation that is hard to get in a nationalized health care system is organ transplants. And those are hard to get in a privatized system too, although you can artificially bump yourself up the list.
But if you break your arm or you need a circumcision or whatever, you'll be pretty happy with national health care. Lots of people I know who would be financially ruined if they'd had to pay for their healthcare.
On July 31 2009 10:28 randomKo_Orean wrote: the joy of US healthecare
The real joy will be when it's fully nationalized and you can't even get this operation even if you are able to pay out of pocket.
Privatize that shit.
Edit: and to actually respond to the thread, I'd definitely seek out some sort of legal advice. I'm sure there are some sketchy lawyers who won't charge a consultation fee. Could you perhaps even file some sort of small claims thing? If you have documentation stating the all-inclusive price should be $1.5k then obviously you shouldn't have to pay more than that. It's such bullshit that there is so much government red tape and hoops for both you and the health-care industry to jump through that ends up manifesting itself in ways like this.
The only operation that is hard to get in a nationalized health care system is organ transplants. And those are hard to get in a privatized system too, although you can artificially bump yourself up the list.
But if you break your arm or you need a circumcision or whatever, you'll be pretty happy with national health care. Lots of people I know who would be financially ruined if they'd had to pay for their healthcare.
he was talking out of his ass, theres people who will argue no matter what because they think they know something obviously US healthcare is one of the shittiest systems in whole western world, only a complete idiot would argue against this
On July 31 2009 10:22 ShinSa.NokCha wrote: A month after, i come home to a 700 dollar fee for anesthesia. I already paid this fee within the 1500 dollars i paid initially. I even have the receipt for it(it was 400 dollars). I call the hospital and they tell me they have nothing to do with this and its a completely different company.
On July 31 2009 11:10 food wrote: he was talking out of his ass, theres people who will argue no matter what because they think they know something obviously US healthcare is one of the shittiest systems in whole western world, only a complete idiot would argue against this
Not sure I'd say it's "one of the shittiest" but I definitely agree in its current incarnation it is a very poor system as our friend here is unfortunately finding out. Where I differ is that I would see it fixed by going to a completely privatized system (it's not even close to that now in any sense whatsoever, so don't take that tack) rather than completely nationalized.
On July 31 2009 10:22 ShinSa.NokCha wrote: A month after, i come home to a 700 dollar fee for anesthesia. I already paid this fee within the 1500 dollars i paid initially. I even have the receipt for it(it was 400 dollars). I call the hospital and they tell me they have nothing to do with this and its a completely different company.
Did you call that other company?
I received the bill today. I called the other company and the offices were closed =/ gonna call tomorrow.
On July 31 2009 11:10 food wrote: he was talking out of his ass, theres people who will argue no matter what because they think they know something obviously US healthcare is one of the shittiest systems in whole western world, only a complete idiot would argue against this
Not sure I'd say it's "one of the shittiest" but I definitely agree in its current incarnation it is a very poor system as our friend here is unfortunately finding out. Where I differ is that I would see it fixed by going to a completely privatized system (it's not even close to that now in any sense whatsoever, so don't take that tack) rather than completely nationalized.
There are very few completely nationalized systems. And those that are usually are fucked up countries politically. In my opionion, in today's society, I tend to think a completely privatized system would be just as disastruous as the non existant completely nationalized ones you speak of. Somehow you seem to have the flawed notion that countries in europe and elsewere with so called "socialized healthcare" outlaw private clinics and practices. That's just not the case. It's a combination.
And I should know better than getting in an argument with someone who with certainty states my country doesn't perform a procedure that somehow, miraculously perhaps, was perfomed unto me.
sue/threaten to sue that usually gets doctors scared to shit i was working in the ER today and one of the MDs was bugging out over a threatened lawsuit
you should refuse to pay, on the terms that as stated in your contract they have 10 days to present any bills. By doing this they would be forced to sue YOU to get the money, and if they do, you have a contract to back you up.
On July 31 2009 11:10 food wrote: he was talking out of his ass, theres people who will argue no matter what because they think they know something obviously US healthcare is one of the shittiest systems in whole western world, only a complete idiot would argue against this
Not sure I'd say it's "one of the shittiest" but I definitely agree in its current incarnation it is a very poor system as our friend here is unfortunately finding out. Where I differ is that I would see it fixed by going to a completely privatized system (it's not even close to that now in any sense whatsoever, so don't take that tack) rather than completely nationalized.
On July 31 2009 12:33 Caller wrote: sue/threaten to sue that usually gets doctors scared to shit i was working in the ER today and one of the MDs was bugging out over a threatened lawsuit
That's retarded, and you know it. How indecent are you. You sicken me.
Health care is incredibly expensive to provide and nothing will change that. I doubt they've charged you more than they would any other case - however, its not fair that the cost hasn't been correctly conveyed to you.
The estimate you got was probably the surgical fee. In a private system, that doesn't account for the pathology, anaesthesiology, and other hospital stay related bills.
If you can imagine that the drugs and equipment alone cost several hundred dollars, let alone the anaesthetic fee, then you'll begin to appreciate the size of the bill you've gotten.
On July 31 2009 12:33 Caller wrote: sue/threaten to sue that usually gets doctors scared to shit i was working in the ER today and one of the MDs was bugging out over a threatened lawsuit
Yea probably over a multi-million lawsuit rather than some kid threatening to sue over $700. Did you even think before posting this? Lol.
On July 31 2009 10:28 randomKo_Orean wrote: the joy of US healthecare
The real joy will be when it's fully nationalized and you can't even get this operation even if you are able to pay out of pocket.
Privatize that shit.
Edit: and to actually respond to the thread, I'd definitely seek out some sort of legal advice. I'm sure there are some sketchy lawyers who won't charge a consultation fee. Could you perhaps even file some sort of small claims thing? If you have documentation stating the all-inclusive price should be $1.5k then obviously you shouldn't have to pay more than that. It's such bullshit that there is so much government red tape and hoops for both you and the health-care industry to jump through that ends up manifesting itself in ways like this.
The only operation that is hard to get in a nationalized health care system is organ transplants. And those are hard to get in a privatized system too, although you can artificially bump yourself up the list.
But if you break your arm or you need a circumcision or whatever, you'll be pretty happy with national health care. Lots of people I know who would be financially ruined if they'd had to pay for their healthcare.
Canada's healthcare system is turning to shit atm, fyi. Try not to get sick. And it's definitely not limited to organ transplants. NY Times just ran a series on the current state of it.
Op, it seems like you should be able to take up your complaint with the $700 bill, since it wasn't disclosed like they had agreed.
On July 31 2009 12:33 Caller wrote: sue/threaten to sue that usually gets doctors scared to shit i was working in the ER today and one of the MDs was bugging out over a threatened lawsuit
That's retarded, and you know it. How indecent are you. You sicken me.
Health care is incredibly expensive to provide and nothing will change that. I doubt they've charged you more than they would any other case - however, its not fair that the cost hasn't been correctly conveyed to you.
The estimate you got was probably the surgical fee. In a private system, that doesn't account for the pathology, anaesthesiology, and other hospital stay related bills.
If you can imagine that the drugs and equipment alone cost several hundred dollars, let alone the anaesthetic fee, then you'll begin to appreciate the size of the bill you've gotten.
Agreed. To pull out all these fees and keep on sending bills is a pretty lame thing to do. They should have given a more accurate estimate and sent it all together. Paying all the salaries for doctors, nurses, clerks and all the other people in the hospital, such as people who work in medical records, janitors, transporters, not to mention buying machines (x-ray, cat scan, mri etc). Then you have to consider all the money it costs for hospital upkeep and research. You also have to keep a pharmacy, pay all their salaries and get all the medicines.
Then there's people like you who threaten to sue. People who go to the hospital go there because they need help, and people sometimes die there. It's not the doctors fault, they tried their best to help the person and they are incredibly busy. They aren't miracle workers and won't always know what's wrong with you and can't always help.
Getting through med school and becoming a doctor is not easy at all, why do you think there is a shortage of doctors?
Move to Norway indeed. I got my foreskin cut a couple years ago at a public clinic here, and the entire thing including my cab fare home cost me about 400nok, which equates to about 50 USD.
Damn those socialist democracies, making life comfortable for its citizens!
On July 31 2009 11:10 food wrote: he was talking out of his ass, theres people who will argue no matter what because they think they know something obviously US healthcare is one of the shittiest systems in whole western world, only a complete idiot would argue against this
Not sure I'd say it's "one of the shittiest" but I definitely agree in its current incarnation it is a very poor system as our friend here is unfortunately finding out. Where I differ is that I would see it fixed by going to a completely privatized system (it's not even close to that now in any sense whatsoever, so don't take that tack) rather than completely nationalized.
Missing the point btw. The problem isn't that its privatized or nationalized. The problem is the middlemen of the insurance companies. Their hundreds of thousands of employees is what's making everything cost so much. Eliminate the leeches = fixed.
On July 31 2009 12:33 Caller wrote: sue/threaten to sue that usually gets doctors scared to shit i was working in the ER today and one of the MDs was bugging out over a threatened lawsuit
That's retarded, and you know it. How indecent are you. You sicken me.
Health care is incredibly expensive to provide and nothing will change that. I doubt they've charged you more than they would any other case - however, its not fair that the cost hasn't been correctly conveyed to you.
The estimate you got was probably the surgical fee. In a private system, that doesn't account for the pathology, anaesthesiology, and other hospital stay related bills.
If you can imagine that the drugs and equipment alone cost several hundred dollars, let alone the anaesthetic fee, then you'll begin to appreciate the size of the bill you've gotten.
I already have a receipt saying i paid $400 for the anesthesia and it says on the check receipt that it was for anesthesia(Its even in the name of the company). The anesthesia fee was included in the 1500 dollar total and the surgical fee itself cost me around 600 dollars. while the rest was the facility fee. I understand the cost for anesthesia but wtf -_-? 1100 dollars for a 5-15 minute operation?
I already found out the doctor himself charged me full price when he told me that he gave me a discount because of my financial status. He said the fee was 600 dollars for the operation and that 600 dollars was a highly discounted price and he would normally never give such a discounted price. I called again under a anonymous number and asked the price for a standard circumcision and they told me it was 600 dollars.
I'm not trying to be rude or ignorant but if i had known the operation was gonna cost another $1000, i would've definitely waited it out or changed my mind.
Why are people getting into idiotic arguments over the pro's and cons of universal health care?
As someone stated before hand, they gave you an estimate, which probably didn't include lab fees/etc..
However, I do think you should of received fair warning of what you were actually going to pay. That's my problem with your situation. I mean you understood you had to pay out of your pocket, but the important thing you needed to know was the complete cost of your procedure including everything.
If the doctor/staff told you that the initial bill was the COMPLETE cost then they are in the wrong. I understand where you are coming from, and I can totally relate that you feel cheated.
If I was you I'd get legal representation, or maybe there's a non-profit group that takes cases like this. I really have no idea, but hopefully you get this mess sorted out.
Also, what's with people bitching at this guy for supposedly "crying" over the bill? He's aggravated over the additional fees that were clearly not presented to him when he asked for the sum of the operation.
Anyone one of us would be outraged if we were in his situation. This isn't about the state of health care, this is about an individuals right to be properly told what he's paying for and how much.
On July 31 2009 12:33 Caller wrote: sue/threaten to sue that usually gets doctors scared to shit i was working in the ER today and one of the MDs was bugging out over a threatened lawsuit
That's retarded, and you know it. How indecent are you. You sicken me.
Health care is incredibly expensive to provide and nothing will change that. I doubt they've charged you more than they would any other case - however, its not fair that the cost hasn't been correctly conveyed to you.
The estimate you got was probably the surgical fee. In a private system, that doesn't account for the pathology, anaesthesiology, and other hospital stay related bills.
If you can imagine that the drugs and equipment alone cost several hundred dollars, let alone the anaesthetic fee, then you'll begin to appreciate the size of the bill you've gotten.
How is that retarded? And how is it indecent?
They are blatantly ripping him off, why is it retarded to take a course of action that gets them to back off?
On July 31 2009 10:28 randomKo_Orean wrote: the joy of US healthecare
The real joy will be when it's fully nationalized and you can't even get this operation even if you are able to pay out of pocket.
Privatize that shit.
Edit: and to actually respond to the thread, I'd definitely seek out some sort of legal advice. I'm sure there are some sketchy lawyers who won't charge a consultation fee. Could you perhaps even file some sort of small claims thing? If you have documentation stating the all-inclusive price should be $1.5k then obviously you shouldn't have to pay more than that. It's such bullshit that there is so much government red tape and hoops for both you and the health-care industry to jump through that ends up manifesting itself in ways like this.
The only operation that is hard to get in a nationalized health care system is organ transplants. And those are hard to get in a privatized system too, although you can artificially bump yourself up the list.
But if you break your arm or you need a circumcision or whatever, you'll be pretty happy with national health care. Lots of people I know who would be financially ruined if they'd had to pay for their healthcare.
This myth that Nationalized Healthcare is free needs to be put to an end. It's not free. You pay in increased taxes. You pay more for an inferior system that can deny you based on artificial outliers such as Age, needs, how many on the list, etc. Why anyone would give any beaurocrats so much power over your life I have no idea.
I repeat; nationalized healthcare is NOT free. You pay in massive increased taxes and then its still not even enough to pay for the system as evidenced by both Britain and Canada who are running massive shortfalls on their healthcare systems.
Lastly, you may enjoy your system now, when you are young and in good health, but when you get older and waiting an extra month or two for an operation means life and death, or when they deny you because it costs 5,000$ to do the operation and the government deems you only living for another year so it doesn't pass the cost:benefit analysis and you don't get the treatment/surgery, etc. you sure won't be liking it then.
Point is, be self-sufficient. Government is not benevolent.
On August 02 2009 06:39 CharlieMurphy wrote: wow, couldn't you get on some kind of low pro insurance to cover some of those costs?
I've been rejected from 5 health insurance companies because my mom has too many health complications.
Update: I called the company and they told me that i was "knocked out" for too long during the operation. Thats why they were charging me another 700 dollars. -_-? I'm so confused. They said the operation was supposed to take 1 hour but i was out for 2 hours. How the hell do i have any control over that :[.
Is there anything i can do? Or am i screwed? I can't even pay for some of my college classes if this debt goes through.
On August 02 2009 06:39 CharlieMurphy wrote: wow, couldn't you get on some kind of low pro insurance to cover some of those costs?
I've been rejected from 5 health insurance companies because my mom has too many health complications.
Update: I called the company and they told me that i was "knocked out" for too long during the operation. Thats why they were charging me another 700 dollars. -_-? I'm so confused. They said the operation was supposed to take 1 hour but i was out for 2 hours. How the hell do i have any control over that :[.
Is there anything i can do? Or am i screwed? I can't even pay for some of my college classes if this debt goes through.
Hospitals are notorious for negotiating prices and payments akin to buying a car. Simply put, you payed for the Anesthesia all ready, they can't double bill you. Don't pay it. You have the proof, they can't garnish your wages for the amount you owe. (Hospitals are known for reducing what you owe if you can't pay. That 700$ in a few months will be knocked down to 400, then a few months later 200, etc. In the end, don't pay.)
Also, each person reacts differently to the Anesthesia some get knocked out longer than others. You don't pay for the amount of time, you pay for the amount used. Time is irrelevant.
On July 31 2009 10:28 randomKo_Orean wrote: the joy of US healthecare
The real joy will be when it's fully nationalized and you can't even get this operation even if you are able to pay out of pocket.
Privatize that shit.
Edit: and to actually respond to the thread, I'd definitely seek out some sort of legal advice. I'm sure there are some sketchy lawyers who won't charge a consultation fee. Could you perhaps even file some sort of small claims thing? If you have documentation stating the all-inclusive price should be $1.5k then obviously you shouldn't have to pay more than that. It's such bullshit that there is so much government red tape and hoops for both you and the health-care industry to jump through that ends up manifesting itself in ways like this.
The only operation that is hard to get in a nationalized health care system is organ transplants. And those are hard to get in a privatized system too, although you can artificially bump yourself up the list.
But if you break your arm or you need a circumcision or whatever, you'll be pretty happy with national health care. Lots of people I know who would be financially ruined if they'd had to pay for their healthcare.
This myth that Nationalized Healthcare is free needs to be put to an end. It's not free. You pay in increased taxes. You pay more for an inferior system that can deny you based on artificial outliers such as Age, needs, how many on the list, etc. Why anyone would give any beaurocrats so much power over your life I have no idea.
I repeat; nationalized healthcare is NOT free. You pay in massive increased taxes and then its still not even enough to pay for the system as evidenced by both Britain and Canada who are running massive shortfalls on their healthcare systems.
Lastly, you may enjoy your system now, when you are young and in good health, but when you get older and waiting an extra month or two for an operation means life and death, or when they deny you because it costs 5,000$ to do the operation and the government deems you only living for another year so it doesn't pass the cost:benefit analysis and you don't get the treatment/surgery, etc. you sure won't be liking it then.
Point is, be self-sufficient. Government is not benevolent.
Way to scarecrow it up there Aegraen. I don't think a single person before you in this thread touted nationalized healthcare as free, and I've never heard anyone argue for it as free.
On July 31 2009 10:28 randomKo_Orean wrote: the joy of US healthecare
The real joy will be when it's fully nationalized and you can't even get this operation even if you are able to pay out of pocket.
Privatize that shit.
Edit: and to actually respond to the thread, I'd definitely seek out some sort of legal advice. I'm sure there are some sketchy lawyers who won't charge a consultation fee. Could you perhaps even file some sort of small claims thing? If you have documentation stating the all-inclusive price should be $1.5k then obviously you shouldn't have to pay more than that. It's such bullshit that there is so much government red tape and hoops for both you and the health-care industry to jump through that ends up manifesting itself in ways like this.
The only operation that is hard to get in a nationalized health care system is organ transplants. And those are hard to get in a privatized system too, although you can artificially bump yourself up the list.
But if you break your arm or you need a circumcision or whatever, you'll be pretty happy with national health care. Lots of people I know who would be financially ruined if they'd had to pay for their healthcare.
This myth that Nationalized Healthcare is free needs to be put to an end. It's not free. You pay in increased taxes. You pay more for an inferior system that can deny you based on artificial outliers such as Age, needs, how many on the list, etc. Why anyone would give any beaurocrats so much power over your life I have no idea.
I repeat; nationalized healthcare is NOT free. You pay in massive increased taxes and then its still not even enough to pay for the system as evidenced by both Britain and Canada who are running massive shortfalls on their healthcare systems.
Lastly, you may enjoy your system now, when you are young and in good health, but when you get older and waiting an extra month or two for an operation means life and death, or when they deny you because it costs 5,000$ to do the operation and the government deems you only living for another year so it doesn't pass the cost:benefit analysis and you don't get the treatment/surgery, etc. you sure won't be liking it then.
Point is, be self-sufficient. Government is not benevolent.
Way to scarecrow it up there Aegraen. I don't think a single person before you in this thread touted nationalized healthcare as free, and I've never heard anyone argue for it as free.
Really? That seems to be the rallying cry for the impoverished in this country who pay no taxes, or for the bottom 60% who only pay 1% of the tax burden.
Also, read the post I responded to. It very much says "free" by implying.
On August 02 2009 06:39 CharlieMurphy wrote: wow, couldn't you get on some kind of low pro insurance to cover some of those costs?
I've been rejected from 5 health insurance companies because my mom has too many health complications.
Update: I called the company and they told me that i was "knocked out" for too long during the operation. Thats why they were charging me another 700 dollars. -_-? I'm so confused. They said the operation was supposed to take 1 hour but i was out for 2 hours. How the hell do i have any control over that :[.
Is there anything i can do? Or am i screwed? I can't even pay for some of my college classes if this debt goes through.
Hospitals are notorious for negotiating prices and payments akin to buying a car. Simply put, you payed for the Anesthesia all ready, they can't double bill you. Don't pay it. You have the proof, they can't garnish your wages for the amount you owe. (Hospitals are known for reducing what you owe if you can't pay. That 700$ in a few months will be knocked down to 400, then a few months later 200, etc. In the end, don't pay.)
Also, each person reacts differently to the Anesthesia some get knocked out longer than others. You don't pay for the amount of time, you pay for the amount used. Time is irrelevant.
I'm assuming the time of the anesthesiologist is being used to make sure you are recovering from it (it is a somewhat dangerous thing to be knocked out) and monitoring you as you come to. This is somewhat equivalent to a mechanic charging 30$ for an oil and filter change. This oil and filter cost like 7$ for them, and even if you do it yourself its gonna cost like 15$ at most. They charge for their labor obviously. Because Time is money.
Regardless, that's bullshit. Don't pay it. What are they gonna do about?
Threads like these keep reminding me what it means to live in a country with a working health care system. And still people over here are bitching about it. Sometimes justified, sometimes not.
But I think you should try to find out if you can get something done because of the huge discrepancy between estimate and the actual fees.
EPT
