On March 29 2009 13:06 GrayArea wrote: How I believe in God
Many people, especially on this forum, do not believe in God. After all, there is no proof, no actual evidence. Christians have the Bible which talks about Jesus and his life, Muslims have the Quran, Jews have the Hebrew Bible. Is what is stated in these books enough to justify the belief, the acceptance that some omniscient being exists in this universe who created us and watches over us?
Some people say seeing is believing. In my case, hearing was believing. I will never forget this day in my entire life, it was the day God spoke to me.
In ninth grade, a new girl joined our class. She was the prettiest girl I had ever seen. Our high school was relatively small (about 1000 people), so I knew she was new immediately and I would often see her around campus. I didn't have any classes with her, and whenever I saw her, I would just admire everything about her beauty. It was a typical high school crush. She never talked to me, and I never said a word to her that year.
Fastforward a year to tenth grade. I walked into first period Health class with my best friend, sat down, looked around, didn't notice anyone in particular and went through the class. The second day, as I walked into the room I noticed her sitting in the class and realized that I must have not noticed her on the first day. Naturally my heart jumped, I became super self-conscious, did I look cool? Was every single movement I did perfect? etc etc.
We still never talked, I would sometimes look at her and then when she turn her head to me I would suddenly look away to pretend I was looking at something else (lol, I would cringe on the inside and hope she didn't notice I was looking at her, so stupid). When we would pass in the hall, I would look at her also and sometimes she would notice me. I think she saw in my eyes that I liked her or something, don't know, don't care.
It was in 10th grade that I began to question life. "What is the purpose of life?" was a question that was incessantly bothering me so deeply for such a long time. I would ask my friends what the purpose of life was, and they would respond with "I don't know" "To die" "I haven't thought about it yet" etc. I wasn't satisfied. I come from a religious family, so the fact that God exists was a possibility.
One day, during one of my deep reflections, I was contemplating Gods existence. I closed my eyes and prayed/said to myself that if God really did exist, then tomorrow that girl would say "Hi" to me at school. Basically I was offering a test to God, if God existed he would make this near impossible thing happen.
Next day was a hearing/vision test at school. They test the hearing and vision of every student and determine whether or not that student has any weaknesses. It was during first period health class that we had our test. Along with several other classes, we went to line up outside the trailer where they would test our hearing. Finally, when my turn came, a group of us students went in (like 11 of us). In that group was her. Because it was in the trailer type of thing, the seats were faced such that two rows were facing each other and each seat had side panels (like a booth). I was at the second seat from the end of one row, she was at the opposite row at the end (so like 4 seats distance). We were waiting for the test to begin. Some of the students were talking with each other. I was just sitting forward in my seat. Randomly, from the right, I hear "Hey GrayArea." I didn't look at her, nor did I say anything or make any change in my expression. Again I hear, "Hey GrayArea, did you really have an A in Hilmerson?"I turned my head to face her, saw she was looking to me, and then I turned my face back straight without saying anything and sat back in my chair so she couldn't see me. She asked the question again, this time I told her yes.
After the hearing test was the vision test. Our group was the last group to go in for the vision test. For some reason, mine and her tests took longer than the other peoples'. Because of this we were the only two still taking the test while everyone else went back to class. Finally, my test finished before hers, and I walked out and was heading back to class. Suddenly I hear, "Hey GrayArea, wait for me!" I looked around and noticed her running towards me as she tried to catch up. I slowed down so she could reach me, and we walked back to class together. I asked her if what grade she had in Hilmerson (Hilmerson is the name of a really hard English teacher that taught 10th grade). She said she had a B. That was all we said to each other, but for some reason I felt my attraction to her go away. I had gotten my impossible answer from God and was blown away.
Why was it that over the period of 1 and half years that this girl didn't say one single word to me, that on this very day she said Hey to me? Why was it that on she happened to talk to me on the very day that I had asked God to make her talk to me? Coincidence? Maybe. Culmination of all the times I looked at her and she noticed? Maybe. Luck? Perhaps. I don't know. What I do know is that from this day I realized God had responded to me, and that somehow, somewhere I knew someone/something heard me.
I don't consider this event to be the sole experience which verified to me that God existed. That would be pure stupidity. After all, like I said, it could have been coincidence. But, it provided for me the stepping stone I needed to take the leap of faith of believing in God. Whenever I prayed, I prayed with a sense of knowing someone was listening. I could feel something inside which felt as though God was within me. Every time I would close my eyes and pray to God, some energy would burst from within me filling me with this warmth.
Why? Because I prayed with the genuine belief that I knew God existed. Prior to that, I would pray with some uncertainty. Was anyone listening to me? Was I just wasting my time? There was no strong, central belief that allowed me to pray with my full heart.
What is God? Is God some external being that exists somewhere far away in space and is viewing the world somehow? Does he exist in heaven (where is heaven though in space?)? Is God some kind of essence that resides within our bodies? Is God just an idea created by our minds in order to help make us feel as though we have a purpose and place in this world and that someone is watching over us?
I can't answer any of these questions. What I can tell you though is that God to me is someone who is the source of that energy I feel when I pray, listens to me, and has an effect on my life and the world around me.
Many people at some point have questioned what you questioned and done the same exact thing and you know what happens? Nothing. They get spat on by your "God."
I do envy you, that you think your special enough for God to go out of his way to make something completely meaningless give you meaning. I wish I could have faith.
That being said, 2 stars.
this is one of the stupidest things I've ever read. You believe in something that is part god part genie.
lool
That's not how it works with (most) faith based religions.
In Christianity, for example, I know that it's about Faith. Faith isn't about "Oh, if I pray, he will do what I say."
Faith is about "If I pray, and I'm not magically cured, I will take faith in him anyway, and continue to pray, and maintain my faith in that which cannot be shown to me."
If he is openly revealed to you, it wouldn't be faith. It would be belief based on empirical evidence.
Yeah it's the fucking no-lose for god..
If you pray and I grant your prayer > It is divine intervention If you pray and I don't' do anything > Wait a little longer
Precisely. It's not supposed to be easy to have faith. That's why it's so hard for a lot of people, like you, to understand.
Hmm answer this..
Say just for fun religion was created by a person to control other people, don't you think he would put in some clause that god will not prove himself to test your faith?
And you morons just eat it up like durrr yeah that makes sense.. if I can't rationalize it then my belief is that much stronger.
It's just so fucking obvious, the whole thing, but gullible idiots like you gobble it up and it's fucking abhorrent.
Yes they would. But so would God. It's so fucking obvious, the whole thing, but silly people like you just gobble up your naive and empirical lives and it's fucking abhorrent. rofl possum?
On March 29 2009 13:06 GrayArea wrote: How I believe in God
Many people, especially on this forum, do not believe in God. After all, there is no proof, no actual evidence. Christians have the Bible which talks about Jesus and his life, Muslims have the Quran, Jews have the Hebrew Bible. Is what is stated in these books enough to justify the belief, the acceptance that some omniscient being exists in this universe who created us and watches over us?
Some people say seeing is believing. In my case, hearing was believing. I will never forget this day in my entire life, it was the day God spoke to me.
In ninth grade, a new girl joined our class. She was the prettiest girl I had ever seen. Our high school was relatively small (about 1000 people), so I knew she was new immediately and I would often see her around campus. I didn't have any classes with her, and whenever I saw her, I would just admire everything about her beauty. It was a typical high school crush. She never talked to me, and I never said a word to her that year.
Fastforward a year to tenth grade. I walked into first period Health class with my best friend, sat down, looked around, didn't notice anyone in particular and went through the class. The second day, as I walked into the room I noticed her sitting in the class and realized that I must have not noticed her on the first day. Naturally my heart jumped, I became super self-conscious, did I look cool? Was every single movement I did perfect? etc etc.
We still never talked, I would sometimes look at her and then when she turn her head to me I would suddenly look away to pretend I was looking at something else (lol, I would cringe on the inside and hope she didn't notice I was looking at her, so stupid). When we would pass in the hall, I would look at her also and sometimes she would notice me. I think she saw in my eyes that I liked her or something, don't know, don't care.
It was in 10th grade that I began to question life. "What is the purpose of life?" was a question that was incessantly bothering me so deeply for such a long time. I would ask my friends what the purpose of life was, and they would respond with "I don't know" "To die" "I haven't thought about it yet" etc. I wasn't satisfied. I come from a religious family, so the fact that God exists was a possibility.
One day, during one of my deep reflections, I was contemplating Gods existence. I closed my eyes and prayed/said to myself that if God really did exist, then tomorrow that girl would say "Hi" to me at school. Basically I was offering a test to God, if God existed he would make this near impossible thing happen.
Next day was a hearing/vision test at school. They test the hearing and vision of every student and determine whether or not that student has any weaknesses. It was during first period health class that we had our test. Along with several other classes, we went to line up outside the trailer where they would test our hearing. Finally, when my turn came, a group of us students went in (like 11 of us). In that group was her. Because it was in the trailer type of thing, the seats were faced such that two rows were facing each other and each seat had side panels (like a booth). I was at the second seat from the end of one row, she was at the opposite row at the end (so like 4 seats distance). We were waiting for the test to begin. Some of the students were talking with each other. I was just sitting forward in my seat. Randomly, from the right, I hear "Hey GrayArea." I didn't look at her, nor did I say anything or make any change in my expression. Again I hear, "Hey GrayArea, did you really have an A in Hilmerson?"I turned my head to face her, saw she was looking to me, and then I turned my face back straight without saying anything and sat back in my chair so she couldn't see me. She asked the question again, this time I told her yes.
After the hearing test was the vision test. Our group was the last group to go in for the vision test. For some reason, mine and her tests took longer than the other peoples'. Because of this we were the only two still taking the test while everyone else went back to class. Finally, my test finished before hers, and I walked out and was heading back to class. Suddenly I hear, "Hey GrayArea, wait for me!" I looked around and noticed her running towards me as she tried to catch up. I slowed down so she could reach me, and we walked back to class together. I asked her if what grade she had in Hilmerson (Hilmerson is the name of a really hard English teacher that taught 10th grade). She said she had a B. That was all we said to each other, but for some reason I felt my attraction to her go away. I had gotten my impossible answer from God and was blown away.
Why was it that over the period of 1 and half years that this girl didn't say one single word to me, that on this very day she said Hey to me? Why was it that on she happened to talk to me on the very day that I had asked God to make her talk to me? Coincidence? Maybe. Culmination of all the times I looked at her and she noticed? Maybe. Luck? Perhaps. I don't know. What I do know is that from this day I realized God had responded to me, and that somehow, somewhere I knew someone/something heard me.
I don't consider this event to be the sole experience which verified to me that God existed. That would be pure stupidity. After all, like I said, it could have been coincidence. But, it provided for me the stepping stone I needed to take the leap of faith of believing in God. Whenever I prayed, I prayed with a sense of knowing someone was listening. I could feel something inside which felt as though God was within me. Every time I would close my eyes and pray to God, some energy would burst from within me filling me with this warmth.
Why? Because I prayed with the genuine belief that I knew God existed. Prior to that, I would pray with some uncertainty. Was anyone listening to me? Was I just wasting my time? There was no strong, central belief that allowed me to pray with my full heart.
What is God? Is God some external being that exists somewhere far away in space and is viewing the world somehow? Does he exist in heaven (where is heaven though in space?)? Is God some kind of essence that resides within our bodies? Is God just an idea created by our minds in order to help make us feel as though we have a purpose and place in this world and that someone is watching over us?
I can't answer any of these questions. What I can tell you though is that God to me is someone who is the source of that energy I feel when I pray, listens to me, and has an effect on my life and the world around me.
Many people at some point have questioned what you questioned and done the same exact thing and you know what happens? Nothing. They get spat on by your "God."
I do envy you, that you think your special enough for God to go out of his way to make something completely meaningless give you meaning. I wish I could have faith.
That being said, 2 stars.
this is one of the stupidest things I've ever read. You believe in something that is part god part genie.
lool
That's not how it works with (most) faith based religions.
In Christianity, for example, I know that it's about Faith. Faith isn't about "Oh, if I pray, he will do what I say."
Faith is about "If I pray, and I'm not magically cured, I will take faith in him anyway, and continue to pray, and maintain my faith in that which cannot be shown to me."
If he is openly revealed to you, it wouldn't be faith. It would be belief based on empirical evidence.
Yeah it's the fucking no-lose for god..
If you pray and I grant your prayer > It is divine intervention If you pray and I don't' do anything > Wait a little longer
Precisely. It's not supposed to be easy to have faith. That's why it's so hard for a lot of people, like you, to understand.
Hmm answer this..
Say just for fun religion was created by a person to control other people, don't you think he would put in some clause that god will not prove himself to test your faith?
And you morons just eat it up like durrr yeah that makes sense.. if I can't rationalize it then my belief is that much stronger.
It's just so fucking obvious, the whole thing, but gullible idiots like you gobble it up and it's fucking abhorrent.
Yes they would. But so would God. It's so fucking obvious, the whole thing, but silly people like you just gobble up your naive and empirical lives and it's fucking abhorrent. rofl possum?
Nope not the same lol
Adding what I added to my previous post:
EDIT: Ok I'm sorry I shouldn't start flaming people, I'm sure you were born into a religious family and brainwashed and had no choice.. You know you could take a baby and teach him that all children kill themselves on their 10th birthday and if you do a good enough job he will do it without questioning you?
But religion is that much easier because everyone wants to believe in something larger than life.
On March 29 2009 14:33 inReacH wrote: Ok one more thing before I go sleep, are you telling me you grew up in a religious family and didn't pray until grade 10 and the first thing you prayed for was that some girl would say hi to you?
I call bullshit on that.. I don't think your really lying, you just want to have faith so much that you unconsciously forgetting the past. I'm betting you prayed to got a thousand times.. maybe this prayer was significant maybe not.. but if it was you were sure to keep it small and possible because you wanted a reason to have faith that badly.
Read the OP again buddy.
. Prior to that, I would pray with some uncertainty. Was anyone listening to me? Was I just wasting my time? There was no strong, central belief that allowed me to pray with my full heart.
I prayed many times before that, and for many things. This time was different because I was in a stage where I was questioning life and God in general. It's that reason I wanted to do a test, or experiment. It was also a more meaningful prayer to me.
To the guy who posted the "experiment" and testing my hypothesis thing. I didn't know there would be a hearing/vision test that day. What if it was part of the plan of answering the prayer that the hearing test happened on that day? [this is not likely, but whatever, just throwing it out there. the obvious flaw in this is that I am trying to explain empirical results with religion, which was what i was trying to prove in the first place, which leads you in a circle]
On March 29 2009 14:12 jinwoooooooo wrote: Some of you need to stop being dickheads.
If he believes in something, who are you to say anything about that? Stop shitting on him and his beliefs, not all of us believe in the same things.
People feel the need to comment and post their feelings and whether they approve or disapprove with the OP, so naturally they end up posting their own beliefs as well. That is why it turns into a flame fest most of the time, therefore a majority of threads relating to religion get closed. I'm surprised this one hasn't been closed yet as well.
On March 29 2009 14:33 inReacH wrote: Ok one more thing before I go sleep, are you telling me you grew up in a religious family and didn't pray until grade 10 and the first thing you prayed for was that some girl would say hi to you?
I call bullshit on that.. I don't think your really lying, you just want to have faith so much that you unconsciously forgetting the past. I'm betting you prayed to got a thousand times.. maybe this prayer was significant maybe not.. but if it was you were sure to keep it small and possible because you wanted a reason to have faith that badly.
. Prior to that, I would pray with some uncertainty. Was anyone listening to me? Was I just wasting my time? There was no strong, central belief that allowed me to pray with my full heart.
I prayed many times before that, and for many things. This time was different because I was in a stage where I was questioning life and God in general. It's that reason I wanted to do a test, or experiment. It was also a more meaningful prayer to me.
To the guy who posted the "experiment" and testing my hypothesis thing. I didn't know there would be a hearing/vision test that day. What if it was part of the plan of answering the prayer that the hearing test happened on that day? [this is not likely, but whatever, just throwing it out there. the obvious flaw in this is that I am trying to explain empirical results with religion, which was what i was trying to prove in the first place, which leads you in a circle]
And your telling me if by coincidence(again) one of the times before this particular day your prayers came true you wouldn't have been affected because it wasn't test day?
Ok so we know god didn't intervene on any of your prayers that didn't get answered
1. We know god didn't intervene 2. On any given(reasonable) prayer there is a chance it will happen by coincidence
Therefore, if you pray enough times and for enough things, eventually the power of PROBABILITY will take over and god will be right for once.
So it was literally just a matter of time before you were "filled with the spirit of the lord"
On March 29 2009 13:06 GrayArea wrote: How I believe in God
Many people, especially on this forum, do not believe in God. After all, there is no proof, no actual evidence. Christians have the Bible which talks about Jesus and his life, Muslims have the Quran, Jews have the Hebrew Bible. Is what is stated in these books enough to justify the belief, the acceptance that some omniscient being exists in this universe who created us and watches over us?
Some people say seeing is believing. In my case, hearing was believing. I will never forget this day in my entire life, it was the day God spoke to me.
In ninth grade, a new girl joined our class. She was the prettiest girl I had ever seen. Our high school was relatively small (about 1000 people), so I knew she was new immediately and I would often see her around campus. I didn't have any classes with her, and whenever I saw her, I would just admire everything about her beauty. It was a typical high school crush. She never talked to me, and I never said a word to her that year.
Fastforward a year to tenth grade. I walked into first period Health class with my best friend, sat down, looked around, didn't notice anyone in particular and went through the class. The second day, as I walked into the room I noticed her sitting in the class and realized that I must have not noticed her on the first day. Naturally my heart jumped, I became super self-conscious, did I look cool? Was every single movement I did perfect? etc etc.
We still never talked, I would sometimes look at her and then when she turn her head to me I would suddenly look away to pretend I was looking at something else (lol, I would cringe on the inside and hope she didn't notice I was looking at her, so stupid). When we would pass in the hall, I would look at her also and sometimes she would notice me. I think she saw in my eyes that I liked her or something, don't know, don't care.
It was in 10th grade that I began to question life. "What is the purpose of life?" was a question that was incessantly bothering me so deeply for such a long time. I would ask my friends what the purpose of life was, and they would respond with "I don't know" "To die" "I haven't thought about it yet" etc. I wasn't satisfied. I come from a religious family, so the fact that God exists was a possibility.
One day, during one of my deep reflections, I was contemplating Gods existence. I closed my eyes and prayed/said to myself that if God really did exist, then tomorrow that girl would say "Hi" to me at school. Basically I was offering a test to God, if God existed he would make this near impossible thing happen.
Next day was a hearing/vision test at school. They test the hearing and vision of every student and determine whether or not that student has any weaknesses. It was during first period health class that we had our test. Along with several other classes, we went to line up outside the trailer where they would test our hearing. Finally, when my turn came, a group of us students went in (like 11 of us). In that group was her. Because it was in the trailer type of thing, the seats were faced such that two rows were facing each other and each seat had side panels (like a booth). I was at the second seat from the end of one row, she was at the opposite row at the end (so like 4 seats distance). We were waiting for the test to begin. Some of the students were talking with each other. I was just sitting forward in my seat. Randomly, from the right, I hear "Hey GrayArea." I didn't look at her, nor did I say anything or make any change in my expression. Again I hear, "Hey GrayArea, did you really have an A in Hilmerson?"I turned my head to face her, saw she was looking to me, and then I turned my face back straight without saying anything and sat back in my chair so she couldn't see me. She asked the question again, this time I told her yes.
After the hearing test was the vision test. Our group was the last group to go in for the vision test. For some reason, mine and her tests took longer than the other peoples'. Because of this we were the only two still taking the test while everyone else went back to class. Finally, my test finished before hers, and I walked out and was heading back to class. Suddenly I hear, "Hey GrayArea, wait for me!" I looked around and noticed her running towards me as she tried to catch up. I slowed down so she could reach me, and we walked back to class together. I asked her if what grade she had in Hilmerson (Hilmerson is the name of a really hard English teacher that taught 10th grade). She said she had a B. That was all we said to each other, but for some reason I felt my attraction to her go away. I had gotten my impossible answer from God and was blown away.
Why was it that over the period of 1 and half years that this girl didn't say one single word to me, that on this very day she said Hey to me? Why was it that on she happened to talk to me on the very day that I had asked God to make her talk to me? Coincidence? Maybe. Culmination of all the times I looked at her and she noticed? Maybe. Luck? Perhaps. I don't know. What I do know is that from this day I realized God had responded to me, and that somehow, somewhere I knew someone/something heard me.
I don't consider this event to be the sole experience which verified to me that God existed. That would be pure stupidity. After all, like I said, it could have been coincidence. But, it provided for me the stepping stone I needed to take the leap of faith of believing in God. Whenever I prayed, I prayed with a sense of knowing someone was listening. I could feel something inside which felt as though God was within me. Every time I would close my eyes and pray to God, some energy would burst from within me filling me with this warmth.
Why? Because I prayed with the genuine belief that I knew God existed. Prior to that, I would pray with some uncertainty. Was anyone listening to me? Was I just wasting my time? There was no strong, central belief that allowed me to pray with my full heart.
What is God? Is God some external being that exists somewhere far away in space and is viewing the world somehow? Does he exist in heaven (where is heaven though in space?)? Is God some kind of essence that resides within our bodies? Is God just an idea created by our minds in order to help make us feel as though we have a purpose and place in this world and that someone is watching over us?
I can't answer any of these questions. What I can tell you though is that God to me is someone who is the source of that energy I feel when I pray, listens to me, and has an effect on my life and the world around me.
Many people at some point have questioned what you questioned and done the same exact thing and you know what happens? Nothing. They get spat on by your "God."
I do envy you, that you think your special enough for God to go out of his way to make something completely meaningless give you meaning. I wish I could have faith.
That being said, 2 stars.
this is one of the stupidest things I've ever read. You believe in something that is part god part genie.
lool
That's not how it works with (most) faith based religions.
In Christianity, for example, I know that it's about Faith. Faith isn't about "Oh, if I pray, he will do what I say."
Faith is about "If I pray, and I'm not magically cured, I will take faith in him anyway, and continue to pray, and maintain my faith in that which cannot be shown to me."
If he is openly revealed to you, it wouldn't be faith. It would be belief based on empirical evidence.
Yeah it's the fucking no-lose for god..
If you pray and I grant your prayer > It is divine intervention If you pray and I don't' do anything > Wait a little longer
Precisely. It's not supposed to be easy to have faith. That's why it's so hard for a lot of people, like you, to understand.
Hmm answer this..
Say just for fun religion was created by a person to control other people, don't you think he would put in some clause that god will not prove himself to test your faith?
And you morons just eat it up like durrr yeah that makes sense.. if I can't rationalize it then my belief is that much stronger.
It's just so fucking obvious, the whole thing, but gullible idiots like you gobble it up and it's fucking abhorrent.
Yes they would. But so would God. It's so fucking obvious, the whole thing, but silly people like you just gobble up your naive and empirical lives and it's fucking abhorrent. rofl possum?
Nope not the same lol
Adding what I added to my previous post:
EDIT: Ok I'm sorry I shouldn't start flaming people, I'm sure you were born into a religious family and brainwashed and had no choice.. You know you could take a baby and teach him that all children kill themselves on their 10th birthday and if you do a good enough job he will do it without questioning you?
But religion is that much easier because everyone wants to believe in something larger than life.
You've been brainwashed.
Rofl. See how prejudice you are? of course you don't "you've been Brainwashed." By whom? Do you know who I am or my story? No? You mean you're judging me based on the fact that you know I consider myself "christian"?
Really a terrible representative of your view point.
No I am not. I was raised catholic until I questioned my faith and left. Then my family did. It wasn't until my entire family lost their faith that I started my spiritual exploration and discovered it by myself. Thanks though, you ignorant creep.
Much like you probably discovered your own beliefs with exploration and experimentation and research, so did I. The only difference is, I was "brainwashed."
Seriously, what? Regardless of what my specific beliefs are, you believe I am brainwashed because it is different from yours.
Let me guess, you're the type of person to blame the religious right for their prejudice and close mindedness. That kind of hypocrisy always gets a laugh out of me. (Though I may be wrong with my assessment.)
On March 29 2009 13:06 GrayArea wrote: How I believe in God
Many people, especially on this forum, do not believe in God. After all, there is no proof, no actual evidence. Christians have the Bible which talks about Jesus and his life, Muslims have the Quran, Jews have the Hebrew Bible. Is what is stated in these books enough to justify the belief, the acceptance that some omniscient being exists in this universe who created us and watches over us?
Some people say seeing is believing. In my case, hearing was believing. I will never forget this day in my entire life, it was the day God spoke to me.
In ninth grade, a new girl joined our class. She was the prettiest girl I had ever seen. Our high school was relatively small (about 1000 people), so I knew she was new immediately and I would often see her around campus. I didn't have any classes with her, and whenever I saw her, I would just admire everything about her beauty. It was a typical high school crush. She never talked to me, and I never said a word to her that year.
Fastforward a year to tenth grade. I walked into first period Health class with my best friend, sat down, looked around, didn't notice anyone in particular and went through the class. The second day, as I walked into the room I noticed her sitting in the class and realized that I must have not noticed her on the first day. Naturally my heart jumped, I became super self-conscious, did I look cool? Was every single movement I did perfect? etc etc.
We still never talked, I would sometimes look at her and then when she turn her head to me I would suddenly look away to pretend I was looking at something else (lol, I would cringe on the inside and hope she didn't notice I was looking at her, so stupid). When we would pass in the hall, I would look at her also and sometimes she would notice me. I think she saw in my eyes that I liked her or something, don't know, don't care.
It was in 10th grade that I began to question life. "What is the purpose of life?" was a question that was incessantly bothering me so deeply for such a long time. I would ask my friends what the purpose of life was, and they would respond with "I don't know" "To die" "I haven't thought about it yet" etc. I wasn't satisfied. I come from a religious family, so the fact that God exists was a possibility.
One day, during one of my deep reflections, I was contemplating Gods existence. I closed my eyes and prayed/said to myself that if God really did exist, then tomorrow that girl would say "Hi" to me at school. Basically I was offering a test to God, if God existed he would make this near impossible thing happen.
Next day was a hearing/vision test at school. They test the hearing and vision of every student and determine whether or not that student has any weaknesses. It was during first period health class that we had our test. Along with several other classes, we went to line up outside the trailer where they would test our hearing. Finally, when my turn came, a group of us students went in (like 11 of us). In that group was her. Because it was in the trailer type of thing, the seats were faced such that two rows were facing each other and each seat had side panels (like a booth). I was at the second seat from the end of one row, she was at the opposite row at the end (so like 4 seats distance). We were waiting for the test to begin. Some of the students were talking with each other. I was just sitting forward in my seat. Randomly, from the right, I hear "Hey GrayArea." I didn't look at her, nor did I say anything or make any change in my expression. Again I hear, "Hey GrayArea, did you really have an A in Hilmerson?"I turned my head to face her, saw she was looking to me, and then I turned my face back straight without saying anything and sat back in my chair so she couldn't see me. She asked the question again, this time I told her yes.
After the hearing test was the vision test. Our group was the last group to go in for the vision test. For some reason, mine and her tests took longer than the other peoples'. Because of this we were the only two still taking the test while everyone else went back to class. Finally, my test finished before hers, and I walked out and was heading back to class. Suddenly I hear, "Hey GrayArea, wait for me!" I looked around and noticed her running towards me as she tried to catch up. I slowed down so she could reach me, and we walked back to class together. I asked her if what grade she had in Hilmerson (Hilmerson is the name of a really hard English teacher that taught 10th grade). She said she had a B. That was all we said to each other, but for some reason I felt my attraction to her go away. I had gotten my impossible answer from God and was blown away.
Why was it that over the period of 1 and half years that this girl didn't say one single word to me, that on this very day she said Hey to me? Why was it that on she happened to talk to me on the very day that I had asked God to make her talk to me? Coincidence? Maybe. Culmination of all the times I looked at her and she noticed? Maybe. Luck? Perhaps. I don't know. What I do know is that from this day I realized God had responded to me, and that somehow, somewhere I knew someone/something heard me.
I don't consider this event to be the sole experience which verified to me that God existed. That would be pure stupidity. After all, like I said, it could have been coincidence. But, it provided for me the stepping stone I needed to take the leap of faith of believing in God. Whenever I prayed, I prayed with a sense of knowing someone was listening. I could feel something inside which felt as though God was within me. Every time I would close my eyes and pray to God, some energy would burst from within me filling me with this warmth.
Why? Because I prayed with the genuine belief that I knew God existed. Prior to that, I would pray with some uncertainty. Was anyone listening to me? Was I just wasting my time? There was no strong, central belief that allowed me to pray with my full heart.
What is God? Is God some external being that exists somewhere far away in space and is viewing the world somehow? Does he exist in heaven (where is heaven though in space?)? Is God some kind of essence that resides within our bodies? Is God just an idea created by our minds in order to help make us feel as though we have a purpose and place in this world and that someone is watching over us?
I can't answer any of these questions. What I can tell you though is that God to me is someone who is the source of that energy I feel when I pray, listens to me, and has an effect on my life and the world around me.
Many people at some point have questioned what you questioned and done the same exact thing and you know what happens? Nothing. They get spat on by your "God."
I do envy you, that you think your special enough for God to go out of his way to make something completely meaningless give you meaning. I wish I could have faith.
That being said, 2 stars.
this is one of the stupidest things I've ever read. You believe in something that is part god part genie.
lool
That's not how it works with (most) faith based religions.
In Christianity, for example, I know that it's about Faith. Faith isn't about "Oh, if I pray, he will do what I say."
Faith is about "If I pray, and I'm not magically cured, I will take faith in him anyway, and continue to pray, and maintain my faith in that which cannot be shown to me."
If he is openly revealed to you, it wouldn't be faith. It would be belief based on empirical evidence.
Yeah it's the fucking no-lose for god..
If you pray and I grant your prayer > It is divine intervention If you pray and I don't' do anything > Wait a little longer
Precisely. It's not supposed to be easy to have faith. That's why it's so hard for a lot of people, like you, to understand.
Hmm answer this..
Say just for fun religion was created by a person to control other people, don't you think he would put in some clause that god will not prove himself to test your faith?
And you morons just eat it up like durrr yeah that makes sense.. if I can't rationalize it then my belief is that much stronger.
It's just so fucking obvious, the whole thing, but gullible idiots like you gobble it up and it's fucking abhorrent.
Yes they would. But so would God. It's so fucking obvious, the whole thing, but silly people like you just gobble up your naive and empirical lives and it's fucking abhorrent. rofl possum?
Alright, now I don't agree with the way that inReacH is going about it, but I more or less agree with his argument. Now by your counter argument, I, an atheist, am living a naive and empirical life. My question is, how is it that I am supposed to 'know' that I should have faith in god. I mean, it seems unfair that I am expected to believe in one god of the thousands out there without even so much as a hint. You could call me naive, but then you probably don't know a lot of things, and how is my naivety about religion any more a definition of my life than your naivety, say, of nuclear physics? (shot in the dark, sorry if that is your major or something )
Also, don't think yourself better than atheists because faith 'isn't supposed to be easy'. You believe in god, that doesn't make you special.
On March 29 2009 13:06 GrayArea wrote: How I believe in God
Many people, especially on this forum, do not believe in God. After all, there is no proof, no actual evidence. Christians have the Bible which talks about Jesus and his life, Muslims have the Quran, Jews have the Hebrew Bible. Is what is stated in these books enough to justify the belief, the acceptance that some omniscient being exists in this universe who created us and watches over us?
Some people say seeing is believing. In my case, hearing was believing. I will never forget this day in my entire life, it was the day God spoke to me.
In ninth grade, a new girl joined our class. She was the prettiest girl I had ever seen. Our high school was relatively small (about 1000 people), so I knew she was new immediately and I would often see her around campus. I didn't have any classes with her, and whenever I saw her, I would just admire everything about her beauty. It was a typical high school crush. She never talked to me, and I never said a word to her that year.
Fastforward a year to tenth grade. I walked into first period Health class with my best friend, sat down, looked around, didn't notice anyone in particular and went through the class. The second day, as I walked into the room I noticed her sitting in the class and realized that I must have not noticed her on the first day. Naturally my heart jumped, I became super self-conscious, did I look cool? Was every single movement I did perfect? etc etc.
We still never talked, I would sometimes look at her and then when she turn her head to me I would suddenly look away to pretend I was looking at something else (lol, I would cringe on the inside and hope she didn't notice I was looking at her, so stupid). When we would pass in the hall, I would look at her also and sometimes she would notice me. I think she saw in my eyes that I liked her or something, don't know, don't care.
It was in 10th grade that I began to question life. "What is the purpose of life?" was a question that was incessantly bothering me so deeply for such a long time. I would ask my friends what the purpose of life was, and they would respond with "I don't know" "To die" "I haven't thought about it yet" etc. I wasn't satisfied. I come from a religious family, so the fact that God exists was a possibility.
One day, during one of my deep reflections, I was contemplating Gods existence. I closed my eyes and prayed/said to myself that if God really did exist, then tomorrow that girl would say "Hi" to me at school. Basically I was offering a test to God, if God existed he would make this near impossible thing happen.
Next day was a hearing/vision test at school. They test the hearing and vision of every student and determine whether or not that student has any weaknesses. It was during first period health class that we had our test. Along with several other classes, we went to line up outside the trailer where they would test our hearing. Finally, when my turn came, a group of us students went in (like 11 of us). In that group was her. Because it was in the trailer type of thing, the seats were faced such that two rows were facing each other and each seat had side panels (like a booth). I was at the second seat from the end of one row, she was at the opposite row at the end (so like 4 seats distance). We were waiting for the test to begin. Some of the students were talking with each other. I was just sitting forward in my seat. Randomly, from the right, I hear "Hey GrayArea." I didn't look at her, nor did I say anything or make any change in my expression. Again I hear, "Hey GrayArea, did you really have an A in Hilmerson?"I turned my head to face her, saw she was looking to me, and then I turned my face back straight without saying anything and sat back in my chair so she couldn't see me. She asked the question again, this time I told her yes.
After the hearing test was the vision test. Our group was the last group to go in for the vision test. For some reason, mine and her tests took longer than the other peoples'. Because of this we were the only two still taking the test while everyone else went back to class. Finally, my test finished before hers, and I walked out and was heading back to class. Suddenly I hear, "Hey GrayArea, wait for me!" I looked around and noticed her running towards me as she tried to catch up. I slowed down so she could reach me, and we walked back to class together. I asked her if what grade she had in Hilmerson (Hilmerson is the name of a really hard English teacher that taught 10th grade). She said she had a B. That was all we said to each other, but for some reason I felt my attraction to her go away. I had gotten my impossible answer from God and was blown away.
Why was it that over the period of 1 and half years that this girl didn't say one single word to me, that on this very day she said Hey to me? Why was it that on she happened to talk to me on the very day that I had asked God to make her talk to me? Coincidence? Maybe. Culmination of all the times I looked at her and she noticed? Maybe. Luck? Perhaps. I don't know. What I do know is that from this day I realized God had responded to me, and that somehow, somewhere I knew someone/something heard me.
I don't consider this event to be the sole experience which verified to me that God existed. That would be pure stupidity. After all, like I said, it could have been coincidence. But, it provided for me the stepping stone I needed to take the leap of faith of believing in God. Whenever I prayed, I prayed with a sense of knowing someone was listening. I could feel something inside which felt as though God was within me. Every time I would close my eyes and pray to God, some energy would burst from within me filling me with this warmth.
Why? Because I prayed with the genuine belief that I knew God existed. Prior to that, I would pray with some uncertainty. Was anyone listening to me? Was I just wasting my time? There was no strong, central belief that allowed me to pray with my full heart.
What is God? Is God some external being that exists somewhere far away in space and is viewing the world somehow? Does he exist in heaven (where is heaven though in space?)? Is God some kind of essence that resides within our bodies? Is God just an idea created by our minds in order to help make us feel as though we have a purpose and place in this world and that someone is watching over us?
I can't answer any of these questions. What I can tell you though is that God to me is someone who is the source of that energy I feel when I pray, listens to me, and has an effect on my life and the world around me.
Many people at some point have questioned what you questioned and done the same exact thing and you know what happens? Nothing. They get spat on by your "God."
I do envy you, that you think your special enough for God to go out of his way to make something completely meaningless give you meaning. I wish I could have faith.
That being said, 2 stars.
this is one of the stupidest things I've ever read. You believe in something that is part god part genie.
lool
That's not how it works with (most) faith based religions.
In Christianity, for example, I know that it's about Faith. Faith isn't about "Oh, if I pray, he will do what I say."
Faith is about "If I pray, and I'm not magically cured, I will take faith in him anyway, and continue to pray, and maintain my faith in that which cannot be shown to me."
If he is openly revealed to you, it wouldn't be faith. It would be belief based on empirical evidence.
Yeah it's the fucking no-lose for god..
If you pray and I grant your prayer > It is divine intervention If you pray and I don't' do anything > Wait a little longer
^ ^ Hypothetically:
doesn't god strike you as the type of guy/being who doesn't like to lose? hey if i were him/her/it ( or maybe someone who invented him/her/it , MUAHAHA) i would do the same thing.
On March 29 2009 14:48 KrAzYfoOL wrote: GrayArea if you were God, and one of your creations felt the need to test you, how would you feel? Do you think you'd oblige?
First, I have to say that it is not possible to try and put yourself in God's position, I'm not saying this out of faith or anything, just saying it scientifically. You can't know what God would do and for what reason.
But to answer your question, if it would help a person who is questioning, and wavering on their path (whatever it may be, and however you define it), then maybe its possible?
On March 29 2009 13:06 GrayArea wrote: How I believe in God
Many people, especially on this forum, do not believe in God. After all, there is no proof, no actual evidence. Christians have the Bible which talks about Jesus and his life, Muslims have the Quran, Jews have the Hebrew Bible. Is what is stated in these books enough to justify the belief, the acceptance that some omniscient being exists in this universe who created us and watches over us?
Some people say seeing is believing. In my case, hearing was believing. I will never forget this day in my entire life, it was the day God spoke to me.
In ninth grade, a new girl joined our class. She was the prettiest girl I had ever seen. Our high school was relatively small (about 1000 people), so I knew she was new immediately and I would often see her around campus. I didn't have any classes with her, and whenever I saw her, I would just admire everything about her beauty. It was a typical high school crush. She never talked to me, and I never said a word to her that year.
Fastforward a year to tenth grade. I walked into first period Health class with my best friend, sat down, looked around, didn't notice anyone in particular and went through the class. The second day, as I walked into the room I noticed her sitting in the class and realized that I must have not noticed her on the first day. Naturally my heart jumped, I became super self-conscious, did I look cool? Was every single movement I did perfect? etc etc.
We still never talked, I would sometimes look at her and then when she turn her head to me I would suddenly look away to pretend I was looking at something else (lol, I would cringe on the inside and hope she didn't notice I was looking at her, so stupid). When we would pass in the hall, I would look at her also and sometimes she would notice me. I think she saw in my eyes that I liked her or something, don't know, don't care.
It was in 10th grade that I began to question life. "What is the purpose of life?" was a question that was incessantly bothering me so deeply for such a long time. I would ask my friends what the purpose of life was, and they would respond with "I don't know" "To die" "I haven't thought about it yet" etc. I wasn't satisfied. I come from a religious family, so the fact that God exists was a possibility.
One day, during one of my deep reflections, I was contemplating Gods existence. I closed my eyes and prayed/said to myself that if God really did exist, then tomorrow that girl would say "Hi" to me at school. Basically I was offering a test to God, if God existed he would make this near impossible thing happen.
Next day was a hearing/vision test at school. They test the hearing and vision of every student and determine whether or not that student has any weaknesses. It was during first period health class that we had our test. Along with several other classes, we went to line up outside the trailer where they would test our hearing. Finally, when my turn came, a group of us students went in (like 11 of us). In that group was her. Because it was in the trailer type of thing, the seats were faced such that two rows were facing each other and each seat had side panels (like a booth). I was at the second seat from the end of one row, she was at the opposite row at the end (so like 4 seats distance). We were waiting for the test to begin. Some of the students were talking with each other. I was just sitting forward in my seat. Randomly, from the right, I hear "Hey GrayArea." I didn't look at her, nor did I say anything or make any change in my expression. Again I hear, "Hey GrayArea, did you really have an A in Hilmerson?"I turned my head to face her, saw she was looking to me, and then I turned my face back straight without saying anything and sat back in my chair so she couldn't see me. She asked the question again, this time I told her yes.
After the hearing test was the vision test. Our group was the last group to go in for the vision test. For some reason, mine and her tests took longer than the other peoples'. Because of this we were the only two still taking the test while everyone else went back to class. Finally, my test finished before hers, and I walked out and was heading back to class. Suddenly I hear, "Hey GrayArea, wait for me!" I looked around and noticed her running towards me as she tried to catch up. I slowed down so she could reach me, and we walked back to class together. I asked her if what grade she had in Hilmerson (Hilmerson is the name of a really hard English teacher that taught 10th grade). She said she had a B. That was all we said to each other, but for some reason I felt my attraction to her go away. I had gotten my impossible answer from God and was blown away.
Why was it that over the period of 1 and half years that this girl didn't say one single word to me, that on this very day she said Hey to me? Why was it that on she happened to talk to me on the very day that I had asked God to make her talk to me? Coincidence? Maybe. Culmination of all the times I looked at her and she noticed? Maybe. Luck? Perhaps. I don't know. What I do know is that from this day I realized God had responded to me, and that somehow, somewhere I knew someone/something heard me.
I don't consider this event to be the sole experience which verified to me that God existed. That would be pure stupidity. After all, like I said, it could have been coincidence. But, it provided for me the stepping stone I needed to take the leap of faith of believing in God. Whenever I prayed, I prayed with a sense of knowing someone was listening. I could feel something inside which felt as though God was within me. Every time I would close my eyes and pray to God, some energy would burst from within me filling me with this warmth.
Why? Because I prayed with the genuine belief that I knew God existed. Prior to that, I would pray with some uncertainty. Was anyone listening to me? Was I just wasting my time? There was no strong, central belief that allowed me to pray with my full heart.
What is God? Is God some external being that exists somewhere far away in space and is viewing the world somehow? Does he exist in heaven (where is heaven though in space?)? Is God some kind of essence that resides within our bodies? Is God just an idea created by our minds in order to help make us feel as though we have a purpose and place in this world and that someone is watching over us?
I can't answer any of these questions. What I can tell you though is that God to me is someone who is the source of that energy I feel when I pray, listens to me, and has an effect on my life and the world around me.
Many people at some point have questioned what you questioned and done the same exact thing and you know what happens? Nothing. They get spat on by your "God."
I do envy you, that you think your special enough for God to go out of his way to make something completely meaningless give you meaning. I wish I could have faith.
That being said, 2 stars.
this is one of the stupidest things I've ever read. You believe in something that is part god part genie.
lool
That's not how it works with (most) faith based religions.
In Christianity, for example, I know that it's about Faith. Faith isn't about "Oh, if I pray, he will do what I say."
Faith is about "If I pray, and I'm not magically cured, I will take faith in him anyway, and continue to pray, and maintain my faith in that which cannot be shown to me."
If he is openly revealed to you, it wouldn't be faith. It would be belief based on empirical evidence.
Yeah it's the fucking no-lose for god..
If you pray and I grant your prayer > It is divine intervention If you pray and I don't' do anything > Wait a little longer
Precisely. It's not supposed to be easy to have faith. That's why it's so hard for a lot of people, like you, to understand.
Hmm answer this..
Say just for fun religion was created by a person to control other people, don't you think he would put in some clause that god will not prove himself to test your faith?
And you morons just eat it up like durrr yeah that makes sense.. if I can't rationalize it then my belief is that much stronger.
It's just so fucking obvious, the whole thing, but gullible idiots like you gobble it up and it's fucking abhorrent.
Yes they would. But so would God. It's so fucking obvious, the whole thing, but silly people like you just gobble up your naive and empirical lives and it's fucking abhorrent. rofl possum?
Nope not the same lol
Adding what I added to my previous post:
EDIT: Ok I'm sorry I shouldn't start flaming people, I'm sure you were born into a religious family and brainwashed and had no choice.. You know you could take a baby and teach him that all children kill themselves on their 10th birthday and if you do a good enough job he will do it without questioning you?
But religion is that much easier because everyone wants to believe in something larger than life.
You've been brainwashed.
Rofl. See how prejudice you are? of course you don't "you've been Brainwashed." By whom? Do you know who I am or my story? No? You mean you're judging me based on the fact that you know I consider myself "christian"?
Really a terrible representative of your view point.
No I am not. I was raised catholic until I questioned my faith and left. Then my family did. It wasn't until my entire family lost their faith that I started my spiritual exploration and discovered it by myself. Thanks though, you ignorant creep.
Much like you probably discovered your own beliefs with exploration and experimentation and research, so did I. The only difference is, I was "brainwashed."
Seriously, what? Regardless of what my specific beliefs are, you believe I am brainwashed because it is different from yours.
Let me guess, you're the type of person to blame the religious right for their prejudice and close mindedness. That kind of hypocrisy always gets a laugh out of me. (Though I may be wrong with my assessment.)
Rofl. See how prejudice you are? of course you don't "you've been Brainwashed." By whom? Do you know who I am or my story? No? You mean you're judging me based on the fact that you know I consider myself "christian"?
Let me guess, you're the type of person to blame the religious right for their prejudice and close mindedness.
That kind of hypocrisy always gets a laugh out of me.
On March 29 2009 13:06 GrayArea wrote: How I believe in God
Many people, especially on this forum, do not believe in God. After all, there is no proof, no actual evidence. Christians have the Bible which talks about Jesus and his life, Muslims have the Quran, Jews have the Hebrew Bible. Is what is stated in these books enough to justify the belief, the acceptance that some omniscient being exists in this universe who created us and watches over us?
Some people say seeing is believing. In my case, hearing was believing. I will never forget this day in my entire life, it was the day God spoke to me.
In ninth grade, a new girl joined our class. She was the prettiest girl I had ever seen. Our high school was relatively small (about 1000 people), so I knew she was new immediately and I would often see her around campus. I didn't have any classes with her, and whenever I saw her, I would just admire everything about her beauty. It was a typical high school crush. She never talked to me, and I never said a word to her that year.
Fastforward a year to tenth grade. I walked into first period Health class with my best friend, sat down, looked around, didn't notice anyone in particular and went through the class. The second day, as I walked into the room I noticed her sitting in the class and realized that I must have not noticed her on the first day. Naturally my heart jumped, I became super self-conscious, did I look cool? Was every single movement I did perfect? etc etc.
We still never talked, I would sometimes look at her and then when she turn her head to me I would suddenly look away to pretend I was looking at something else (lol, I would cringe on the inside and hope she didn't notice I was looking at her, so stupid). When we would pass in the hall, I would look at her also and sometimes she would notice me. I think she saw in my eyes that I liked her or something, don't know, don't care.
It was in 10th grade that I began to question life. "What is the purpose of life?" was a question that was incessantly bothering me so deeply for such a long time. I would ask my friends what the purpose of life was, and they would respond with "I don't know" "To die" "I haven't thought about it yet" etc. I wasn't satisfied. I come from a religious family, so the fact that God exists was a possibility.
One day, during one of my deep reflections, I was contemplating Gods existence. I closed my eyes and prayed/said to myself that if God really did exist, then tomorrow that girl would say "Hi" to me at school. Basically I was offering a test to God, if God existed he would make this near impossible thing happen.
Next day was a hearing/vision test at school. They test the hearing and vision of every student and determine whether or not that student has any weaknesses. It was during first period health class that we had our test. Along with several other classes, we went to line up outside the trailer where they would test our hearing. Finally, when my turn came, a group of us students went in (like 11 of us). In that group was her. Because it was in the trailer type of thing, the seats were faced such that two rows were facing each other and each seat had side panels (like a booth). I was at the second seat from the end of one row, she was at the opposite row at the end (so like 4 seats distance). We were waiting for the test to begin. Some of the students were talking with each other. I was just sitting forward in my seat. Randomly, from the right, I hear "Hey GrayArea." I didn't look at her, nor did I say anything or make any change in my expression. Again I hear, "Hey GrayArea, did you really have an A in Hilmerson?"I turned my head to face her, saw she was looking to me, and then I turned my face back straight without saying anything and sat back in my chair so she couldn't see me. She asked the question again, this time I told her yes.
After the hearing test was the vision test. Our group was the last group to go in for the vision test. For some reason, mine and her tests took longer than the other peoples'. Because of this we were the only two still taking the test while everyone else went back to class. Finally, my test finished before hers, and I walked out and was heading back to class. Suddenly I hear, "Hey GrayArea, wait for me!" I looked around and noticed her running towards me as she tried to catch up. I slowed down so she could reach me, and we walked back to class together. I asked her if what grade she had in Hilmerson (Hilmerson is the name of a really hard English teacher that taught 10th grade). She said she had a B. That was all we said to each other, but for some reason I felt my attraction to her go away. I had gotten my impossible answer from God and was blown away.
Why was it that over the period of 1 and half years that this girl didn't say one single word to me, that on this very day she said Hey to me? Why was it that on she happened to talk to me on the very day that I had asked God to make her talk to me? Coincidence? Maybe. Culmination of all the times I looked at her and she noticed? Maybe. Luck? Perhaps. I don't know. What I do know is that from this day I realized God had responded to me, and that somehow, somewhere I knew someone/something heard me.
I don't consider this event to be the sole experience which verified to me that God existed. That would be pure stupidity. After all, like I said, it could have been coincidence. But, it provided for me the stepping stone I needed to take the leap of faith of believing in God. Whenever I prayed, I prayed with a sense of knowing someone was listening. I could feel something inside which felt as though God was within me. Every time I would close my eyes and pray to God, some energy would burst from within me filling me with this warmth.
Why? Because I prayed with the genuine belief that I knew God existed. Prior to that, I would pray with some uncertainty. Was anyone listening to me? Was I just wasting my time? There was no strong, central belief that allowed me to pray with my full heart.
What is God? Is God some external being that exists somewhere far away in space and is viewing the world somehow? Does he exist in heaven (where is heaven though in space?)? Is God some kind of essence that resides within our bodies? Is God just an idea created by our minds in order to help make us feel as though we have a purpose and place in this world and that someone is watching over us?
I can't answer any of these questions. What I can tell you though is that God to me is someone who is the source of that energy I feel when I pray, listens to me, and has an effect on my life and the world around me.
Many people at some point have questioned what you questioned and done the same exact thing and you know what happens? Nothing. They get spat on by your "God."
I do envy you, that you think your special enough for God to go out of his way to make something completely meaningless give you meaning. I wish I could have faith.
That being said, 2 stars.
this is one of the stupidest things I've ever read. You believe in something that is part god part genie.
lool
That's not how it works with (most) faith based religions.
In Christianity, for example, I know that it's about Faith. Faith isn't about "Oh, if I pray, he will do what I say."
Faith is about "If I pray, and I'm not magically cured, I will take faith in him anyway, and continue to pray, and maintain my faith in that which cannot be shown to me."
If he is openly revealed to you, it wouldn't be faith. It would be belief based on empirical evidence.
Yeah it's the fucking no-lose for god..
If you pray and I grant your prayer > It is divine intervention If you pray and I don't' do anything > Wait a little longer
Precisely. It's not supposed to be easy to have faith. That's why it's so hard for a lot of people, like you, to understand.
Hmm answer this..
Say just for fun religion was created by a person to control other people, don't you think he would put in some clause that god will not prove himself to test your faith?
And you morons just eat it up like durrr yeah that makes sense.. if I can't rationalize it then my belief is that much stronger.
It's just so fucking obvious, the whole thing, but gullible idiots like you gobble it up and it's fucking abhorrent.
Yes they would. But so would God. It's so fucking obvious, the whole thing, but silly people like you just gobble up your naive and empirical lives and it's fucking abhorrent. rofl possum?
Alright, now I don't agree with the way that inReacH is going about it, but I more or less agree with his argument. Now by your counter argument, I, an atheist, am living a naive and empirical life. My question is, how is it that I am supposed to 'know' that I should have faith in god. I mean, it seems unfair that I am expected to believe in one god of the thousands out there without even so much as a hint. You could call me naive, but then you probably don't know a lot of things, and how is my naivety about religion any more a definition of my life than your naivety, say, of nuclear physics? (shot in the dark, sorry if that is your major or something )
Also, don't think yourself better than atheists because faith 'isn't supposed to be easy'. You believe in god, that doesn't make you special.
I actually agree with you. I said it to mimic his argument to show how that his logic works reversely. I didn't mean to make me sound superior because I may have something that I may or may not believe to be hard to obtain. Even though inreach has that attitude towards me and that I lack some sort of logic simply because I have faith.
I don't think I'm better than you. I think I have a more open mind than say, inreach, but I don't think I am superior.
I do appreciate the maturity in which you are carrying out this conversation though. =)
On March 29 2009 14:46 GrayArea wrote: To the guy who posted the "experiment" and testing my hypothesis thing. I didn't know there would be a hearing/vision test that day. What if it was part of the plan of answering the prayer that the hearing test happened on that day? [this is not likely, but whatever, just throwing it out there. the obvious flaw in this is that I am trying to explain empirical results with religion, which was what i was trying to prove in the first place, which leads you in a circle]
Well, my first answer was that the hearing vision test must have been planned out more than a day in advance and therefore was set in place before you made your prayer.
However, if we are assuming an omnipotent creator type god (we are, right?) then I am guessing going back and making that happen would be childsplay for him, so we are back at square one.
I guess that in this instance you needed to choose which to believe. You made your choice, well, at least enough of a choice to make the first step, as you said. I can't claim to know all of the facts or anything about you, all I can say is that to me, this did not prove anything, but to you it did, and if I put myself in your position I must admit that I can see how it would.
On March 29 2009 13:06 GrayArea wrote: How I believe in God
Many people, especially on this forum, do not believe in God. After all, there is no proof, no actual evidence. Christians have the Bible which talks about Jesus and his life, Muslims have the Quran, Jews have the Hebrew Bible. Is what is stated in these books enough to justify the belief, the acceptance that some omniscient being exists in this universe who created us and watches over us?
Some people say seeing is believing. In my case, hearing was believing. I will never forget this day in my entire life, it was the day God spoke to me.
In ninth grade, a new girl joined our class. She was the prettiest girl I had ever seen. Our high school was relatively small (about 1000 people), so I knew she was new immediately and I would often see her around campus. I didn't have any classes with her, and whenever I saw her, I would just admire everything about her beauty. It was a typical high school crush. She never talked to me, and I never said a word to her that year.
Fastforward a year to tenth grade. I walked into first period Health class with my best friend, sat down, looked around, didn't notice anyone in particular and went through the class. The second day, as I walked into the room I noticed her sitting in the class and realized that I must have not noticed her on the first day. Naturally my heart jumped, I became super self-conscious, did I look cool? Was every single movement I did perfect? etc etc.
We still never talked, I would sometimes look at her and then when she turn her head to me I would suddenly look away to pretend I was looking at something else (lol, I would cringe on the inside and hope she didn't notice I was looking at her, so stupid). When we would pass in the hall, I would look at her also and sometimes she would notice me. I think she saw in my eyes that I liked her or something, don't know, don't care.
It was in 10th grade that I began to question life. "What is the purpose of life?" was a question that was incessantly bothering me so deeply for such a long time. I would ask my friends what the purpose of life was, and they would respond with "I don't know" "To die" "I haven't thought about it yet" etc. I wasn't satisfied. I come from a religious family, so the fact that God exists was a possibility.
One day, during one of my deep reflections, I was contemplating Gods existence. I closed my eyes and prayed/said to myself that if God really did exist, then tomorrow that girl would say "Hi" to me at school. Basically I was offering a test to God, if God existed he would make this near impossible thing happen.
Next day was a hearing/vision test at school. They test the hearing and vision of every student and determine whether or not that student has any weaknesses. It was during first period health class that we had our test. Along with several other classes, we went to line up outside the trailer where they would test our hearing. Finally, when my turn came, a group of us students went in (like 11 of us). In that group was her. Because it was in the trailer type of thing, the seats were faced such that two rows were facing each other and each seat had side panels (like a booth). I was at the second seat from the end of one row, she was at the opposite row at the end (so like 4 seats distance). We were waiting for the test to begin. Some of the students were talking with each other. I was just sitting forward in my seat. Randomly, from the right, I hear "Hey GrayArea." I didn't look at her, nor did I say anything or make any change in my expression. Again I hear, "Hey GrayArea, did you really have an A in Hilmerson?"I turned my head to face her, saw she was looking to me, and then I turned my face back straight without saying anything and sat back in my chair so she couldn't see me. She asked the question again, this time I told her yes.
After the hearing test was the vision test. Our group was the last group to go in for the vision test. For some reason, mine and her tests took longer than the other peoples'. Because of this we were the only two still taking the test while everyone else went back to class. Finally, my test finished before hers, and I walked out and was heading back to class. Suddenly I hear, "Hey GrayArea, wait for me!" I looked around and noticed her running towards me as she tried to catch up. I slowed down so she could reach me, and we walked back to class together. I asked her if what grade she had in Hilmerson (Hilmerson is the name of a really hard English teacher that taught 10th grade). She said she had a B. That was all we said to each other, but for some reason I felt my attraction to her go away. I had gotten my impossible answer from God and was blown away.
Why was it that over the period of 1 and half years that this girl didn't say one single word to me, that on this very day she said Hey to me? Why was it that on she happened to talk to me on the very day that I had asked God to make her talk to me? Coincidence? Maybe. Culmination of all the times I looked at her and she noticed? Maybe. Luck? Perhaps. I don't know. What I do know is that from this day I realized God had responded to me, and that somehow, somewhere I knew someone/something heard me.
I don't consider this event to be the sole experience which verified to me that God existed. That would be pure stupidity. After all, like I said, it could have been coincidence. But, it provided for me the stepping stone I needed to take the leap of faith of believing in God. Whenever I prayed, I prayed with a sense of knowing someone was listening. I could feel something inside which felt as though God was within me. Every time I would close my eyes and pray to God, some energy would burst from within me filling me with this warmth.
Why? Because I prayed with the genuine belief that I knew God existed. Prior to that, I would pray with some uncertainty. Was anyone listening to me? Was I just wasting my time? There was no strong, central belief that allowed me to pray with my full heart.
What is God? Is God some external being that exists somewhere far away in space and is viewing the world somehow? Does he exist in heaven (where is heaven though in space?)? Is God some kind of essence that resides within our bodies? Is God just an idea created by our minds in order to help make us feel as though we have a purpose and place in this world and that someone is watching over us?
I can't answer any of these questions. What I can tell you though is that God to me is someone who is the source of that energy I feel when I pray, listens to me, and has an effect on my life and the world around me.
Many people at some point have questioned what you questioned and done the same exact thing and you know what happens? Nothing. They get spat on by your "God."
I do envy you, that you think your special enough for God to go out of his way to make something completely meaningless give you meaning. I wish I could have faith.
That being said, 2 stars.
this is one of the stupidest things I've ever read. You believe in something that is part god part genie.
lool
That's not how it works with (most) faith based religions.
In Christianity, for example, I know that it's about Faith. Faith isn't about "Oh, if I pray, he will do what I say."
Faith is about "If I pray, and I'm not magically cured, I will take faith in him anyway, and continue to pray, and maintain my faith in that which cannot be shown to me."
If he is openly revealed to you, it wouldn't be faith. It would be belief based on empirical evidence.
Yeah it's the fucking no-lose for god..
If you pray and I grant your prayer > It is divine intervention If you pray and I don't' do anything > Wait a little longer
Precisely. It's not supposed to be easy to have faith. That's why it's so hard for a lot of people, like you, to understand.
Hmm answer this..
Say just for fun religion was created by a person to control other people, don't you think he would put in some clause that god will not prove himself to test your faith?
And you morons just eat it up like durrr yeah that makes sense.. if I can't rationalize it then my belief is that much stronger.
It's just so fucking obvious, the whole thing, but gullible idiots like you gobble it up and it's fucking abhorrent.
Yes they would. But so would God. It's so fucking obvious, the whole thing, but silly people like you just gobble up your naive and empirical lives and it's fucking abhorrent. rofl possum?
Nope not the same lol
Adding what I added to my previous post:
EDIT: Ok I'm sorry I shouldn't start flaming people, I'm sure you were born into a religious family and brainwashed and had no choice.. You know you could take a baby and teach him that all children kill themselves on their 10th birthday and if you do a good enough job he will do it without questioning you?
But religion is that much easier because everyone wants to believe in something larger than life.
You've been brainwashed.
Rofl. See how prejudice you are? of course you don't "you've been Brainwashed." By whom? Do you know who I am or my story? No? You mean you're judging me based on the fact that you know I consider myself "christian"?
Really a terrible representative of your view point.
No I am not. I was raised catholic until I questioned my faith and left. Then my family did. It wasn't until my entire family lost their faith that I started my spiritual exploration and discovered it by myself. Thanks though, you ignorant creep.
Much like you probably discovered your own beliefs with exploration and experimentation and research, so did I. The only difference is, I was "brainwashed."
Seriously, what? Regardless of what my specific beliefs are, you believe I am brainwashed because it is different from yours.
Let me guess, you're the type of person to blame the religious right for their prejudice and close mindedness. That kind of hypocrisy always gets a laugh out of me. (Though I may be wrong with my assessment.)
You talking to me about you making a personal choice to have faith after research is like someone coming up to you and telling you they've decided they don't believe in addition.
If you truly care about the validity of your faith watch this lecture and if you would rebuttal all of his arguments. There are 6 parts but it seems like a short amount of time when compared to the possibility of a lifetime of misguidedness.
On March 29 2009 13:06 GrayArea wrote: How I believe in God
Many people, especially on this forum, do not believe in God. After all, there is no proof, no actual evidence. Christians have the Bible which talks about Jesus and his life, Muslims have the Quran, Jews have the Hebrew Bible. Is what is stated in these books enough to justify the belief, the acceptance that some omniscient being exists in this universe who created us and watches over us?
Some people say seeing is believing. In my case, hearing was believing. I will never forget this day in my entire life, it was the day God spoke to me.
In ninth grade, a new girl joined our class. She was the prettiest girl I had ever seen. Our high school was relatively small (about 1000 people), so I knew she was new immediately and I would often see her around campus. I didn't have any classes with her, and whenever I saw her, I would just admire everything about her beauty. It was a typical high school crush. She never talked to me, and I never said a word to her that year.
Fastforward a year to tenth grade. I walked into first period Health class with my best friend, sat down, looked around, didn't notice anyone in particular and went through the class. The second day, as I walked into the room I noticed her sitting in the class and realized that I must have not noticed her on the first day. Naturally my heart jumped, I became super self-conscious, did I look cool? Was every single movement I did perfect? etc etc.
We still never talked, I would sometimes look at her and then when she turn her head to me I would suddenly look away to pretend I was looking at something else (lol, I would cringe on the inside and hope she didn't notice I was looking at her, so stupid). When we would pass in the hall, I would look at her also and sometimes she would notice me. I think she saw in my eyes that I liked her or something, don't know, don't care.
It was in 10th grade that I began to question life. "What is the purpose of life?" was a question that was incessantly bothering me so deeply for such a long time. I would ask my friends what the purpose of life was, and they would respond with "I don't know" "To die" "I haven't thought about it yet" etc. I wasn't satisfied. I come from a religious family, so the fact that God exists was a possibility.
One day, during one of my deep reflections, I was contemplating Gods existence. I closed my eyes and prayed/said to myself that if God really did exist, then tomorrow that girl would say "Hi" to me at school. Basically I was offering a test to God, if God existed he would make this near impossible thing happen.
Next day was a hearing/vision test at school. They test the hearing and vision of every student and determine whether or not that student has any weaknesses. It was during first period health class that we had our test. Along with several other classes, we went to line up outside the trailer where they would test our hearing. Finally, when my turn came, a group of us students went in (like 11 of us). In that group was her. Because it was in the trailer type of thing, the seats were faced such that two rows were facing each other and each seat had side panels (like a booth). I was at the second seat from the end of one row, she was at the opposite row at the end (so like 4 seats distance). We were waiting for the test to begin. Some of the students were talking with each other. I was just sitting forward in my seat. Randomly, from the right, I hear "Hey GrayArea." I didn't look at her, nor did I say anything or make any change in my expression. Again I hear, "Hey GrayArea, did you really have an A in Hilmerson?"I turned my head to face her, saw she was looking to me, and then I turned my face back straight without saying anything and sat back in my chair so she couldn't see me. She asked the question again, this time I told her yes.
After the hearing test was the vision test. Our group was the last group to go in for the vision test. For some reason, mine and her tests took longer than the other peoples'. Because of this we were the only two still taking the test while everyone else went back to class. Finally, my test finished before hers, and I walked out and was heading back to class. Suddenly I hear, "Hey GrayArea, wait for me!" I looked around and noticed her running towards me as she tried to catch up. I slowed down so she could reach me, and we walked back to class together. I asked her if what grade she had in Hilmerson (Hilmerson is the name of a really hard English teacher that taught 10th grade). She said she had a B. That was all we said to each other, but for some reason I felt my attraction to her go away. I had gotten my impossible answer from God and was blown away.
Why was it that over the period of 1 and half years that this girl didn't say one single word to me, that on this very day she said Hey to me? Why was it that on she happened to talk to me on the very day that I had asked God to make her talk to me? Coincidence? Maybe. Culmination of all the times I looked at her and she noticed? Maybe. Luck? Perhaps. I don't know. What I do know is that from this day I realized God had responded to me, and that somehow, somewhere I knew someone/something heard me.
I don't consider this event to be the sole experience which verified to me that God existed. That would be pure stupidity. After all, like I said, it could have been coincidence. But, it provided for me the stepping stone I needed to take the leap of faith of believing in God. Whenever I prayed, I prayed with a sense of knowing someone was listening. I could feel something inside which felt as though God was within me. Every time I would close my eyes and pray to God, some energy would burst from within me filling me with this warmth.
Why? Because I prayed with the genuine belief that I knew God existed. Prior to that, I would pray with some uncertainty. Was anyone listening to me? Was I just wasting my time? There was no strong, central belief that allowed me to pray with my full heart.
What is God? Is God some external being that exists somewhere far away in space and is viewing the world somehow? Does he exist in heaven (where is heaven though in space?)? Is God some kind of essence that resides within our bodies? Is God just an idea created by our minds in order to help make us feel as though we have a purpose and place in this world and that someone is watching over us?
I can't answer any of these questions. What I can tell you though is that God to me is someone who is the source of that energy I feel when I pray, listens to me, and has an effect on my life and the world around me.
Many people at some point have questioned what you questioned and done the same exact thing and you know what happens? Nothing. They get spat on by your "God."
I do envy you, that you think your special enough for God to go out of his way to make something completely meaningless give you meaning. I wish I could have faith.
That being said, 2 stars.
this is one of the stupidest things I've ever read. You believe in something that is part god part genie.
lool
That's not how it works with (most) faith based religions.
In Christianity, for example, I know that it's about Faith. Faith isn't about "Oh, if I pray, he will do what I say."
Faith is about "If I pray, and I'm not magically cured, I will take faith in him anyway, and continue to pray, and maintain my faith in that which cannot be shown to me."
If he is openly revealed to you, it wouldn't be faith. It would be belief based on empirical evidence.
Yeah it's the fucking no-lose for god..
If you pray and I grant your prayer > It is divine intervention If you pray and I don't' do anything > Wait a little longer
Precisely. It's not supposed to be easy to have faith. That's why it's so hard for a lot of people, like you, to understand.
Hmm answer this..
Say just for fun religion was created by a person to control other people, don't you think he would put in some clause that god will not prove himself to test your faith?
And you morons just eat it up like durrr yeah that makes sense.. if I can't rationalize it then my belief is that much stronger.
It's just so fucking obvious, the whole thing, but gullible idiots like you gobble it up and it's fucking abhorrent.
Yes they would. But so would God. It's so fucking obvious, the whole thing, but silly people like you just gobble up your naive and empirical lives and it's fucking abhorrent. rofl possum?
Nope not the same lol
Adding what I added to my previous post:
EDIT: Ok I'm sorry I shouldn't start flaming people, I'm sure you were born into a religious family and brainwashed and had no choice.. You know you could take a baby and teach him that all children kill themselves on their 10th birthday and if you do a good enough job he will do it without questioning you?
But religion is that much easier because everyone wants to believe in something larger than life.
You've been brainwashed.
Rofl. See how prejudice you are? of course you don't "you've been Brainwashed." By whom? Do you know who I am or my story? No? You mean you're judging me based on the fact that you know I consider myself "christian"?
Really a terrible representative of your view point.
No I am not. I was raised catholic until I questioned my faith and left. Then my family did. It wasn't until my entire family lost their faith that I started my spiritual exploration and discovered it by myself. Thanks though, you ignorant creep.
Much like you probably discovered your own beliefs with exploration and experimentation and research, so did I. The only difference is, I was "brainwashed."
Seriously, what? Regardless of what my specific beliefs are, you believe I am brainwashed because it is different from yours.
Let me guess, you're the type of person to blame the religious right for their prejudice and close mindedness. That kind of hypocrisy always gets a laugh out of me. (Though I may be wrong with my assessment.)
Rofl. See how prejudice you are? of course you don't "you've been Brainwashed." By whom? Do you know who I am or my story? No? You mean you're judging me based on the fact that you know I consider myself "christian"?
That kind of hypocrisy always gets a laugh out of me.
lolwut
Considering how you've been portrayed by clever editing and selective quoting, I'd think you'd be a little more understanding.
(Though I may be wrong with my assessment.)
The only difference with my judgments and his, is that mine were based on his content and I treat them as based on minimal content, therefore, not 100% accurate. He based his on a very small post containing the fact that I consider myself Christian, and seemed to expect them to hold true despite what I say.
dammit and here i thought no holy flame war would occur.
also, i am an agnostic/atheist, where in the fuck does any Religious person get the right to state their superiority by saying i am naive, and "i don't get it" because i am limited !?
i respect you and your beliefs, please do the same. if not, know that i am bound only by my physical limitations and conscience , i will not be burning in hell for taking the flame to an extreme IQ test-OFF Biatch
EPT
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