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I almost always upgrade Zergling speed after Lair vs. Terran. It forces the Terran to think twice before being aggressive, keeps him in his base sometimes, and I often don't have to build any sunken colonies.
The strategy of getting ling speed is suggested by the two following Starcraft theorems.
1) The best defense is a good offense.
2) Army power decreases with distance.
I build sunken colonies as a last resort, if I lost all my lings or I screwed up my economy too much to afford using larvae for a dozen lings. They don't move, and all they do is force the Terran from attacking your base.
Speedlings weakly dominate sunkens because they can achieve the same effect (marine+med don't attack you) but you can do more (like counterattack or harass). The only downside is that instead of using 3 drones to make sunkens, you need 6 larvae (which could have gone to 6 drones). But for the reason I mentioned, I almost always get speedlings because of their mobility.
The second point illustrates that if I have lings, I'll be able to camp in front of his base with them before he can camp in front of mine. By the time he pushes me all the way back, I'll have mutas and his army will be useless. Keeping a distance reduces the power of his marine+medic army.
Today I realized another benefit. Speedlings allow you to take advantage of greedy builds. Builds that, if you don't see it and deal with it when there's a timing window, will roll you over for sure later in the game. E.g.: Terran goes two engineering bay before academy for dual upgrades; Terran goes 1rax1fac1star for REALLY early Vessels.
Here's the recap of what happened. It's Destination, I'm Zerg, he's Terran, I'm at 5 o'clock.
My initial ovie is sent in a dumb direction.
Later, I am able to scout first his Starport.
At first, I think he is just going early Vessel. But then I see this.
He was gonna go early Valkyries, and there would be a timing window in which he'd only have one Valkyrie and a handful of marine and medic. If I left him alone, he'd skip making turrets. Valkyries are to turrets as lings are to sunkens. I couldn't let this happen.
I had ling speed. So I hatched about 6 more lings for a total of about 18.
As soon as I had 8 mutas or so, I go into his nat.
I knew that given his build, he could only have had a handful or marine+med and a Valk. I was confident in the efficiency of my build so that I could apply the substitution principle to the enemy -- you can't have everything; for everything extra you gain, there's something you lose. He sacrificed marine count for early Valkyries, and I was going to make him pay for it.
I trust myself and go in, killing about a dozen SCVs, doing severe damage. In retrospect, I think I could have done more damage by going into his main and attacking his Barracks.
That's pretty much the defining move of the game. The rest of the game is me trying to throw the game by getting constantly harassed. You wouldn't take away much from it. He keeps making small positive EV (expected value) moves, and I know it. He was coming back. I had been dealt an AK against his A8, but he was outplaying me little by little.
Each picture shows a different hatchery. At least 7 hatcheries were sniped throughout the game.
I had one final chance to set things straight. I went all-in on ultralisks and lings and shoved them in. Instantly, the tables turned and I was able to secure the win.
[BRAG]Check out his record. vooevoli[/BRAG]
Back to my point though -- my observation was that a dozen speedlings provide a very good hedge against a lot of greedy Terran builds.
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cool post, but please don't ever make poker analogies again.
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How on earth does he still have a full line of minerals at his main while yours are almost mined out completely (last picture)
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Korea (South)11601 Posts
On March 25 2009 03:54 H wrote:
cool post, but please don't ever make poker analogies again.
I heard it was +EV to do so.
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im just curious as to how you went from wrecking his nat so early to almost losing the game
at that fight it looks like you've just killed all his mnm and you still have a group of lings and 8 mutas left, i dunno how it's even possible to come back from that
o_O
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isn't one supposed to like.. upgrade zergling speed by default after Lair?
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On March 25 2009 04:01 CaucasianAsian wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2009 03:54 H wrote:
cool post, but please don't ever make poker analogies again. I heard it was +EV to do so.
actually, it's just awkward as fuck and really dorky.
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On March 25 2009 03:57 inReacH wrote:
How on earth does he still have a full line of minerals at his main while yours are almost mined out completely (last picture)
because the last time he saw that min line they were full. Fog of war is on, you only have zerg's perspective.
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Lingspeed after Lair is standard in TvZ.
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o_0 I get Lair first 100 gas, ling speed second 100 gas. I thought everyone did that.
P.S. Why do you hate lurkers
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12 speedling builds is usually very weak against strong terran builds, such as the ones that you may or may not have seen in Stylish's vods, also most Terrans arent retards that will die to standard 3 hatch 12 speedlings (not all-in) early game, and doing this sets you far back in comparison to most economic ZvT builds.
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id hate to see what 4 firebats would do to 12 speedlings >.<
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Isn't it more economically viable to have a bit of a balance between sunkens and lings anyways?
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On March 25 2009 04:02 H wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2009 04:01 CaucasianAsian wrote:On March 25 2009 03:54 H wrote:
cool post, but please don't ever make poker analogies again. I heard it was +EV to do so. actually, it's just awkward as fuck and really dorky.
then i guess you didn't read the webcomic, that's the joke he is making
http://plusev.keenspot.com/
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Hungary11305 Posts
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On March 25 2009 04:33 koreasilver wrote:
Isn't it more economically viable to have a bit of a balance between sunkens and lings anyways?
really economical 3 hatch builds involve only getting 4 lings until mutas and delay speed after mutas + Den imo
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On March 25 2009 04:33 PePe QuiCoSE wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2009 04:02 H wrote:On March 25 2009 04:01 CaucasianAsian wrote:On March 25 2009 03:54 H wrote:
cool post, but please don't ever make poker analogies again. I heard it was +EV to do so. actually, it's just awkward as fuck and really dorky. then i guess you didn't read the webcomic, that's the joke he is making http://plusev.keenspot.com/
I have read that webcomic.
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On March 25 2009 04:47 404.TooEz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2009 04:33 koreasilver wrote:
Isn't it more economically viable to have a bit of a balance between sunkens and lings anyways? really economical 3 hatch builds involve only getting 4 lings until mutas and delay speed after mutas + Den imo
Who in the world is going to let you get mutas from a 3hatch build making no sunks and only 4 slow lings?
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I don't know any poker references, but I do know that EV is effort values in Pokémon.
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yeah, i just hope you run into a good terran that will make 1-2 bats and own the shit out of your zerglings, leaving you open for a all in attack
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I trust myself and go in, killing about a dozen SCVs, doing severe damage. In retrospect, I think I could have done more damage by going into his main and attacking his Barracks.
looks like you couldve ended the game right there if u did go in
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all that superfluous language makes me completely unable to take this seriously
not that it's saying anything too revolutionary, I'm sorry.
im just curious as to how you went from wrecking his nat so early to almost losing the game
at that fight it looks like you've just killed all his mnm and you still have a group of lings and 8 mutas left, i dunno how it's even possible to come back from that
o_O
What this guy said.
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Love how everyone here is talking like they're better than Stryker at this game. He beats a 35-2 C+ Terran (while accounting for one of the two losses that is) and everyone's like "too bad a good Terran would have beat you" or whining about poker analogies. It's a blog, not a guide, and most people aren't progamers ... chill out guys.
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On March 25 2009 05:56 darktreb wrote:
Love how everyone here is talking like they're better than Stryker at this game. He beats a 35-2 C+ Terran (while accounting for one of the two losses that is) and everyone's like "too bad a good Terran would have beat you" or whining about poker analogies. It's a blog, not a guide, and most people aren't progamers ... chill out guys.
its hilarious how he talks about upgrading zergling speed like it's this incredibly gosu and subtle move NOBODY ever does. Even if he didn't mean it like that, that's how it sounds.
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On March 25 2009 06:10 minus_human wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2009 05:56 darktreb wrote:
Love how everyone here is talking like they're better than Stryker at this game. He beats a 35-2 C+ Terran (while accounting for one of the two losses that is) and everyone's like "too bad a good Terran would have beat you" or whining about poker analogies. It's a blog, not a guide, and most people aren't progamers ... chill out guys. its hilarious how he talks about upgrading zergling speed like it's this incredibly gosu and subtle move NOBODY ever does. Even if he didn't mean it like that, that's how it sounds.
stryker is less emphasizing the importance of ling speed than he is emphasizing the effectiveness of makinkg 12 speedlings to substitute for sunkens. 12 speedlings are amazingly strong.
and for those of you saying
i cant wait for a good terran to rape you or what not with firebats, thats pure bs. stryker isnt a noob like you are.
if terran does some early game pressure, stryker smacks down 2 sunkens, and the entire pressure crap is over. stryker knows when to engage, hes not gonna attack if he sees firebats. he will simply put down 2 sunkens, and if terran decides to keep goiong and attack the sunkens, the sunkens combined with 12 lings from behind will DESTROY that force, and the inevitable mutas will just rape your base.
yes this is a good idea. very economic 3 hatch builds are only asking for pressure and that pressure will make you waste more minerals anyway.
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He gives a good analysis of why speedlings are powerful. I don't think he's claiming that going speed after lair is his brilliant innovation. Entertaining post.
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On March 25 2009 04:16 koreasilver wrote:
Lingspeed after Lair is standard in TvZ.
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On March 25 2009 04:59 koreasilver wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2009 04:47 404.TooEz wrote:On March 25 2009 04:33 koreasilver wrote:
Isn't it more economically viable to have a bit of a balance between sunkens and lings anyways? really economical 3 hatch builds involve only getting 4 lings until mutas and delay speed after mutas + Den imo Who in the world is going to let you get mutas from a 3hatch build making no sunks and only 4 slow lings?
If they go 2 rax tech they will, if not you just adapt..What I mean is you want to aim for not making more than that, as in power drone but obviously it depends on what the Terran is doing..
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On March 25 2009 07:45 404.TooEz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2009 04:59 koreasilver wrote:On March 25 2009 04:47 404.TooEz wrote:On March 25 2009 04:33 koreasilver wrote:
Isn't it more economically viable to have a bit of a balance between sunkens and lings anyways? really economical 3 hatch builds involve only getting 4 lings until mutas and delay speed after mutas + Den imo Who in the world is going to let you get mutas from a 3hatch build making no sunks and only 4 slow lings? If they go 2 rax tech they will, if not you just adapt..What I mean is you want to aim for not making more than that, as in power drone but obviously it depends on what the Terran is doing..
Okay. Well, of course a zerg player should whore drones as much as their opponent allows in the early game, but getting ling speed after mutalisks is dangerous. Lings are used constantly throughout the game, and you seriously need speedlings around before mutalisks. The upgrade is so important, and it doesn't hinder you from producing the initial mutalisks and the following tech if you started mining from your first two gases at appropriate times.
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I don't see this working too well. A few firebats and you have to put down sunken colonies anyways.
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lolz u got owned 
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On March 25 2009 08:03 APurpleCow wrote:
I don't see this working too well. A few firebats and you have to put down sunken colonies anyways.
2. and that really doesnt make a difference. you can get 12 speedlings and 2 sunkens before mutas and maybe delay mutas by 2 seconds at most.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On March 25 2009 14:53 Salv wrote:
What's hedging?
you put a row of lings in between your opponent's territory and your own and people stroll by and comment on how neatly kept they are
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On March 26 2009 00:39 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:you put a row of lings in between your opponent's territory and your own and people stroll by and comment on how neatly kept they are
Careful you don't make the row too long. People will call you a hedge-hog.
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On March 26 2009 03:37 LTT wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2009 00:39 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On March 25 2009 14:53 Salv wrote:
What's hedging? you put a row of lings in between your opponent's territory and your own and people stroll by and comment on how neatly kept they are Careful you don't make the row too long. People will call you a hedge-hog.
hahaha
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On March 25 2009 07:21 PH wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2009 04:16 koreasilver wrote:
Lingspeed after Lair is standard in TvZ.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/4422/replays/story%20desti/beginning%20ovie.JPG)
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