• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 08:39
CEST 14:39
KST 21:39
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 20257Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202577RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18
Community News
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced24BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8
StarCraft 2
General
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 2025 #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time I offer completely free coaching services What tournaments are world championships?
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event Esports World Cup 2025 $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced $5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025 WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign Dewalt's Show Matches in China BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers [G] Mineral Boosting Does 1 second matter in StarCraft?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 707 users

Question about new map Carthage

Blogs > chameleonia
Post a Reply
Chameleon
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States604 Posts
February 04 2009 20:02 GMT
#1
I was wondering if people who have played a decent number of games on Carthage have any observations about difficulties w/ the map. I'm particularly interested in input from other protoss players.

I've noticed int he 4 games played on it there were 2 ZvP wins that made it look like this will be a tough pvz map because that opening to the nat is so enormous, and the 2 PvT games were just proxy 2 gate rushes. I wonder if those rushes are because something about Carthage makes the build extra strong or if the players did it cause they dont like their chances on the map, or if its just that tempest or whoever was way worse and afraid of fantasy and stork just likes to randomly zeal rush every once in a while.

These questions also made me think it might be cool to add to the strat forum a thread for discussing map-specific strategies. These threads could talk about what builds seem to be particularly successful or difficult on new maps, what unique things can be exploited, and just generally how to adapt to maps. I think this could be especially useful for maps that appear to be unbalanced (cough pvz at tears of the moon cough).

[image loading]

Poll: What do you think of dedicated map threads in the strategy section?
(Vote): I'd like to see map threads in the strategy section
(Vote): I would NOT like to see map threads in the strategy section
(Vote): something else (explain)




*
TL's #1 Horang2 fan
Zortch
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Canada635 Posts
February 04 2009 20:11 GMT
#2
I've heard that pros often cheese on newer maps because they don't feel that they have analysed the map enough to play straight up on it.
Respect is everything. ~ARchon
T.O.P. *
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Hong Kong4685 Posts
February 04 2009 20:14 GMT
#3
I'll just like to have all the korean guides translated to english.
Oracle comes in, Scvs go down, never a miscommunication.
PH
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States6173 Posts
February 04 2009 21:20 GMT
#4
On February 05 2009 05:11 Zortch wrote:
I've heard that pros often cheese on newer maps because they don't feel that they have analysed the map enough to play straight up on it.

It's probably more that since the map hasn't been played on very much, anything goes, including cheese rushes being that much more unpredictable. It's due to a uniform level of unfamiliarity with the map by all.
Hello
o3.power91
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Bahrain5288 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-02-04 22:18:12
February 04 2009 22:17 GMT
#5
I think the reason PvT have ended with proxy gates is because this map has so many possible proxy locations that its difficult scouting all of them. Also cheesing on a flat 2 player map isn't that risky for Protoss (and I think Idra would agree with me here) since its incredibly difficult for Terran to wall off and defend against goons. Do you remember how frequent Protoss used to cheese on Blue Storm? Just like that Protoss can easily deal a lot of damage with early harass.

As for PvZ, I think this will be a tough map for P since there are a total of 12 gas bases on this map meaning Zerg can easily take 4 gases. It can be argued that Protoss can do the same, however a 4 gas Zerg in the right hands is pretty difficult to handle. No matter how many bases Protoss has, if the Zerg reaches 200/200 and is still mining comfortably, it's over for the Protoss.

I've never played on the map though so choose whether you want to accept this explanation or not. Just my 2 cents.
T.O.P. *
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Hong Kong4685 Posts
February 04 2009 23:57 GMT
#6
On February 05 2009 07:17 o3.power91 wrote:however a 4 gas Zerg in the right hands is pretty difficult to handle. No matter how many bases Protoss has, if the Zerg reaches 200/200 and is still mining comfortably, it's over for the Protoss.

Have you ever played against a 200/200 protoss where the protoss has carriers, corsairs, arbiters, archons, templars and reavers?
Oracle comes in, Scvs go down, never a miscommunication.
Zoler
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Sweden6339 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-02-05 00:57:07
February 05 2009 00:55 GMT
#7
On February 05 2009 08:57 T.O.P. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 05 2009 07:17 o3.power91 wrote:however a 4 gas Zerg in the right hands is pretty difficult to handle. No matter how many bases Protoss has, if the Zerg reaches 200/200 and is still mining comfortably, it's over for the Protoss.

Have you ever played against a 200/200 protoss where the protoss has archons and reavers?


Fixed.


Bonus:
+ Show Spoiler +

On February 05 2009 08:57 T.O.P. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 05 2009 07:17 o3.power91 wrote:however a 4 gas Zerg in the right hands is pretty difficult to handle. No matter how many bases Protoss has, if the Zerg reaches 200/200 and is still mining comfortably, it's over for the Protoss.

Have you ever played against a 200/200 protoss where the protoss has their number keys and their A button?


Fixed.
Lim Yo Hwan forever!
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
FEL
09:00
Cracow 2025
Clem vs Krystianer
uThermal vs SKillousLIVE!
Reynor vs MaNa
Lambo vs Gerald
ComeBackTV 1546
RotterdaM1496
IndyStarCraft 525
CranKy Ducklings189
WardiTV180
Rex138
3DClanTV 112
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 1496
IndyStarCraft 525
Rex 138
ProTech58
BRAT_OK 47
MindelVK 18
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 48401
Horang2 8144
Hyuk 3564
EffOrt 1329
Barracks 1046
Rush 800
Hyun 798
BeSt 732
Mini 710
Larva 636
[ Show more ]
firebathero 449
Stork 395
Last 292
Soulkey 249
Dewaltoss 95
ZerO 87
Sharp 48
Free 43
sorry 41
Movie 34
sSak 34
sas.Sziky 28
Shinee 24
zelot 19
soO 19
Icarus 15
Shine 13
ajuk12(nOOB) 11
yabsab 9
Terrorterran 4
Dota 2
qojqva2388
XcaliburYe624
Counter-Strike
sgares310
oskar153
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor293
Other Games
B2W.Neo1731
Beastyqt849
Hui .270
DeMusliM235
Fuzer 163
QueenE39
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH384
• tFFMrPink 11
• intothetv
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3945
• WagamamaTV845
League of Legends
• Nemesis2280
• Jankos1303
Upcoming Events
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1h 21m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
5h 21m
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 21h
WardiTV European League
2 days
Online Event
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
BSL 20 Team Wars
FEL Cracov 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.