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Why do you feel it is necessary to break down his beliefs? Has he expressed an interest in you doing so?
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United States44444 Posts
On January 30 2009 17:49 NoobsOfWrath wrote:
Why do you feel it is necessary to break down his beliefs? Has he expressed an interest in you doing so?
That's kind of how debate works. If you respond by agreeing with him the whole system breaks down.
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EDIT: Im an idiot, didnt read. sorry
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On January 30 2009 17:49 NoobsOfWrath wrote:
Why do you feel it is necessary to break down his beliefs? Has he expressed an interest in you doing so?
Well he's trying to do so to you. If he says your beliefs are wrong because X (his belief), you defend your views by showing how X doesn't invalidate your viewpoints. The simplest and generally only way to do that is to show that X is wrong.
As a general rule though in any argument about religion no matter how well you break down or show the flaws in someone's beliefs, they will NEVER be swayed. It's more of an emotional than logical thing to most people.
Also if your tactic is to show problems with the Bible or to demonstrate evolution, that's probably the wrong methodology. I'd focus less on trying to show why he is wrong (which he isn't, necessarily) and more on why his arguments aren't substantiated. ie if he says "God is the creator of the Earth, etc, how can you deny God" don't respond by showing that the Bible contradicts itself often but rather ask "How do you know that God created the Earth? What led you to that conclusion". If you are intelligent you'll find and demonstrate that their logic is based on assumptions (faith). And that's as good to "winning" as you're going to get.
Give me a PM if you want to try arguing against the xtian viewpoint (I'll represent it).
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Katowice25012 Posts
On January 30 2009 17:51 Kwark wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2009 17:49 NoobsOfWrath wrote:
Why do you feel it is necessary to break down his beliefs? Has he expressed an interest in you doing so? That's kind of how debate works. If you respond by agreeing with him the whole system breaks down.
Funny enough, when you respond by telling him he is wrong it just further entrenches him in his beliefs. Its absolute no win.
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i think you should change the blog title to:
a pebble vs an ocean
isn't apathy one of the stages of being an atheist?
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On January 30 2009 17:55 cz wrote:
As a general rule though in any argument about religion no matter how well you break down or show the flaws in someone's beliefs, they will NEVER be swayed. It's more of an emotional than logical thing to most people.
Well yes, that is why it's called faith. Ultimately, all believers choose to believe, they are rarely convicted in a logical manner, because honestly, trying to prove religion is a child's debate.
If God and etc exist or not is much more of a personal choice, than a general truth (at least in this point of human evolution).
And I'm so annoyed of people who make it their mission to spread their beliefs by going from house to house, I mean, I don't go to their church trying to convince anyone that God is actually an oversized fairy
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Can't really help you, but this is pretty interesting, did you play starcraft with him yet?
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On January 30 2009 18:03 minus_human wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2009 17:55 cz wrote:
As a general rule though in any argument about religion no matter how well you break down or show the flaws in someone's beliefs, they will NEVER be swayed. It's more of an emotional than logical thing to most people. Well yes, that is why it's called faith. Ultimately, all believers choose to believe, they are rarely convicted in a logical manner, because honestly, trying to prove religion is a child's debate. If God and etc exist or not is much more of a personal choice, than a general truth (at least in this point of human evolution). And I'm so annoyed of people who make it their mission to spread their beliefs by going from house to house, I mean, I don't go to their church trying to convince anyone that God is actually an oversized fairy
God either exists or doesn't exist. It's not a personal choice. Your beliefs are a personal choice, but that doesn't change reality.
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On January 30 2009 18:03 minus_human wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2009 17:55 cz wrote:
As a general rule though in any argument about religion no matter how well you break down or show the flaws in someone's beliefs, they will NEVER be swayed. It's more of an emotional than logical thing to most people. Well yes, that is why it's called faith. Ultimately, all believers choose to believe, they are rarely convicted in a logical manner, because honestly, trying to prove religion is a child's debate. If God and etc exist or not is much more of a personal choice, than a general truth (at least in this point of human evolution). And I'm so annoyed of people who make it their mission to spread their beliefs by going from house to house, I mean, I don't go to their church trying to convince anyone that God is actually an oversized fairy
You have yet to be touched by his noodly appendage!
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On January 30 2009 18:08 cz wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2009 18:03 minus_human wrote:On January 30 2009 17:55 cz wrote:
As a general rule though in any argument about religion no matter how well you break down or show the flaws in someone's beliefs, they will NEVER be swayed. It's more of an emotional than logical thing to most people. Well yes, that is why it's called faith. Ultimately, all believers choose to believe, they are rarely convicted in a logical manner, because honestly, trying to prove religion is a child's debate. If God and etc exist or not is much more of a personal choice, than a general truth (at least in this point of human evolution). And I'm so annoyed of people who make it their mission to spread their beliefs by going from house to house, I mean, I don't go to their church trying to convince anyone that God is actually an oversized fairy God either exists or doesn't exist. It's not a personal choice. Your beliefs are a personal choice, but that doesn't change reality.
Well that was exactly what I was implying, it's a matter of personal choice. It's not like your personal choice can influence the actual fact of something's existence or nonexistence. Sorry if I miss-worded my statement
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On January 30 2009 18:09 benjammin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2009 18:03 minus_human wrote:On January 30 2009 17:55 cz wrote:
As a general rule though in any argument about religion no matter how well you break down or show the flaws in someone's beliefs, they will NEVER be swayed. It's more of an emotional than logical thing to most people. Well yes, that is why it's called faith. Ultimately, all believers choose to believe, they are rarely convicted in a logical manner, because honestly, trying to prove religion is a child's debate. If God and etc exist or not is much more of a personal choice, than a general truth (at least in this point of human evolution). And I'm so annoyed of people who make it their mission to spread their beliefs by going from house to house, I mean, I don't go to their church trying to convince anyone that God is actually an oversized fairy You have yet to be touched by his noodly appendage!
Actually that FSM crap is total bullshit. I prefer pizza
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On January 30 2009 18:06 jodogohoo wrote:
Can't really help you, but this is pretty interesting, did you play starcraft with him yet?
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Never mind trying to win this argument, instead you should try to show why you do not want/need what he is offering.
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Jehovah's witnesses are very strange from my experiences with them. Don't expect too much.
Just cut contact and give it a rest. If you're completely secure in your beliefs, then what does it matter?
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Try slamming the door  or don't even answer the door!.
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well
you can use these arguments, like explaining evolution and such against these kind of guys who are radicals. Like the jehova guys.
I think, the biggest part of christianity in the US is kinda radical. And imo you are used to this kind of religion (though I am just assuming) Lot of the American neoprotestant minichurches are radicals in the sense of taking the Bible word by word.
I find it ridiculous that in a lot of states of US, that creationism is included in the education.. this is utterly stupid and shows something.
If you get in a debate with a welleducated, non-radical christian person, I wonder if you could save your stance
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On January 30 2009 18:37 freelander wrote:If you get in a debate with a welleducated, non-radical christian person, I wonder if you could save your stance
Ive debated this with very well educated christians. While in most situations they think act logically and rationally as soon as religion is debated, their arguments become terrible.
Religion is a way for humans to cope with death. Some people just cant handle that when the die they will cease to exist. Religion gives them the comfort of knowing that when they die they continue living. The rest of religion is just fluff and just serves to re-enforce the persons beliefs. Ask ANY christian, and they will say they are going to heaven. However how many christians also have sex before marriage, work on the sabbath etc.? The rest of religion is just there to re-enforce belief with arbitary rules.
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On January 30 2009 18:03 benjammin wrote:
i think you should change the blog title to:
a pebble vs an ocean
isn't apathy one of the stages of being an atheist?
no u r thinking of an agnostic
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EPT
